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View Full Version : Yet another Chinese 3020 CNC upgrade thread!



Pointy
10-12-2013, 10:04 AM
Hi All,

I have a cheapo 3020 router which I bought for making PCB's. It has performed really well other than the z axis coupling coming undone 3 times, and one dodgey connection. I have already made a few mods to the machine, including making and addon PCB for the control box which adds...

Limit switches with LED indication.
Home switches with LED indication.
Probe with LED indication.
EStop LED indicator.
Spindle control with 5 seconds warning buzzer.

The control box itself has 3 x Tonsen drivers and a Tonsen BOB and I am not sure if these are any better than the normal Yoocnc ones. So far I have not had any problems with the control box, but wondered if it was worth upgrading while I was doing the planned enclosure.

Here is a pic of what I had in mind...

10953

I have already made something similar out of MDF, but it obviously makes it dark inside. The plan is to use some 20mm x 20mm aluminum extrusions to make the frame. Then I would like to use clear perspex for the top half and aluminum panels for the bottom. In the bottom part I would like to house the electronics, new or old, and add a joystick and or buttons to control the axis. The rough dimensions would be 450mm wide, 550mm deep and 500mm high. The bottom part would be around 100mm in height which is comparable to my current control box, should I wish to just simply move everything.

So I am looking for any advise on making the enclosure (I planned to get the parts from Valuframe and have been quoted 160ish for just the frame and fittings), still need to source some perspex and aluminum sheet, which I could probably get locally. Anyone used Valuframe with the no drill connectors? Any better or cheaper alternatives?

I am obviously look for some advise for the electronics as well, I have seen other people use 542H stepper drivers are these the best idea? I don't want to spend a fortune if I don't have to and also don't want to upgrade if I don't have to. As it's working ok should I keep it as it is?

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

Regards,

Les

EddyCurrent
10-12-2013, 09:03 PM
Les,
As you say yourself why upgrade if it works ? it would probably make more sense to put the money into making a better machine from scratch but if you don't plan on any more demanding work why bother ?.
Regarding the enclosure, gravity makes everything go down including lubricant and swarf so I'd say it was a bad idea putting the electronics underneath. It looks like a nice tidy solution but vibration would also transfer through the components, I would suggest a separate box something like a PC tower shape.

Instead of messing about with joysticks and buttons I got one of these and it works great, assuming you use Mach3 software.
New Wireless MPG Pendant Handwheel Mach3 For CNC Mac.Mach 3, 4 axis Controller | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Wireless-MPG-Pendant-Handwheel-Mach3-For-CNC-Mac-Mach-3-4-axis-Controller-/190994543641?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2c78297419)

links to other aluminium suppliers

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/items-ebay-uk/6728-kb-aluminium-profile-supplies.html
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/marketplace-discussion/6698-aluminium-profile-cutting-bed-router.html#post50642

Pointy
11-12-2013, 08:41 AM
Thanks for taking the time to reply Ed,

Some good points.


As you say yourself why upgrade if it works ? it would probably make more sense to put the money into making a better machine from scratch but if you don't plan on any more demanding work why bother ?.

It does what I want it to at the moment. mechanically so no plans to replace it or do a scratch build.


Regarding the enclosure, gravity makes everything go down including lubricant and swarf so I'd say it was a bad idea putting the electronics underneath. It looks like a nice tidy solution but vibration would also transfer through the components, I would suggest a separate box something like a PC tower shape.

Good point about gravity, although I have never used any lubricant. Gave me an idea to turn it upside down! The controls would be more at my eye level, and I could fit some LED lights underneath the top part to light up the working area. Also as the enclosure would only be sitting over the CNC, and not physically attached, it would cut down on the vibration.

10959


Instead of messing about with joysticks and buttons I got one of these and it works great, assuming you use Mach3 software.
New Wireless MPG Pendant Handwheel Mach3 For CNC Mac.Mach 3, 4 axis Controller | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Wireless-MPG-Pendant-Handwheel-Mach3-For-CNC-Mac-Mach-3-4-axis-Controller-/190994543641?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2c78297419)

Sorry but I would rather make something, which is all part of the fun of it for me. Joysticks, keyboards are pretty easy and cheap to make. I like the idea of everything being built in to one unit.


links to other aluminium suppliers

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/items-ebay-uk/6728-kb-aluminium-profile-supplies.html
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/marketplace-discussion/6698-aluminium-profile-cutting-bed-router.html#post50642

I did find those links already, but I don't think any of them did everything that I wanted. My main concern is whether the 20mm x 20mm aluminum would be strong enough. Now it's not so much of an issue, as it's not going to take the weight of the CNC.

Regards,

Les

EddyCurrent
11-12-2013, 09:43 AM
Sounds like you have it sorted, I like the idea of the down lighters.

Pointy
11-12-2013, 09:09 PM
While sat on the riverbank fishing today I had plenty of time to think about this, especially seeing as I wasn't catching much. :grumpy:

I thought I could dismantle the Toshiba laptop that is running Mach3 and mount it inside the top enclosure. Perhaps ripping out the Motherboard so save space if needed. This would keep some of the cables/connections inside, keeping things neat. I have a 17" Iiayma touch screen monitor that I could use in place of the laptop screen. The only potential problem I see, is the metal enclosure might inhibit the wireless signal, (I use the network to send the Eagle gcode output direct to the CNC laptop) although I am sure I could get over this.

I also decided that I should probably go for 30mm x 30mm profile and make the whole enclosure slightly bigger too.

Regards,

Les

EddyCurrent
11-12-2013, 10:11 PM
Use some decent runners and make a drawer in the top section to house the laptop.

Pointy
17-12-2013, 09:44 PM
Slightly tweaked the design, added top bar and supports. Now made out of 30mm profile.
11032

Pointy
18-12-2013, 01:31 PM
I really like the idea of having the laptop built in to the top housing, but I have concerns about vibration and the hard drive. As luck would have it I remember pulling 2 of these 64Gb SSD's from a dead Sony laptop.
11036

All I need now is a msata to 2.5" IDE connector, which I have found on Ebay for 10. 64Gb will be plenty as currently it has a 40Gb IDE drive, of which I am only using 7Gb.

Regards,

Les

EddyCurrent
18-12-2013, 02:34 PM
Not suggesting you put a bed in there :nevreness: but thinking about this arrangement for a top lid.
StudyBed €“ Desk and Bed combination €“ Deskbed - Studybed (http://www.studybed.co.uk/?gclid=CKnVrZDxubsCFUTmwgodLTUAVw)

Play the video.

JAZZCNC
18-12-2013, 10:50 PM
Not suggesting you put a bed in there :nevreness: but thinking about this arrangement for a top lid.
StudyBed – Desk and Bed combination – Deskbed - Studybed (http://www.studybed.co.uk/?gclid=CKnVrZDxubsCFUTmwgodLTUAVw)

Play the video.

Thats clever.!! . . . Would be very easy to Duplicate, esp with a CNC router.!

irving2008
19-12-2013, 01:34 PM
While sat on the riverbank fishing today I had plenty of time to think about this, especially seeing as I wasn't catching much. :grumpy:

I thought I could dismantle the Toshiba laptop that is running Mach3 and mount it inside the top enclosure. Perhaps ripping out the Motherboard so save space if needed. This would keep some of the cables/connections inside, keeping things neat. I have a 17" Iiayma touch screen monitor that I could use in place of the laptop screen. The only potential problem I see, is the metal enclosure might inhibit the wireless signal, (I use the network to send the Eagle gcode output direct to the CNC laptop) although I am sure I could get over this.

I also decided that I should probably go for 30mm x 30mm profile and make the whole enclosure slightly bigger too.

Regards,

Les
My only concern with that is cooling. Laptops use some clever heatpipe arrangements for cooling. Also hard drive etc connections usually rely on the case for support. Personally I'd buy a cheap motherboard/CPU/RAM combo, you can get some good deals online.

JAZZCNC
19-12-2013, 04:00 PM
My only concern with that is cooling. Laptops use some clever heatpipe arrangements for cooling. Also hard drive etc connections usually rely on the case for support. Personally I'd buy a cheap motherboard/CPU/RAM combo, you can get some good deals online.

Yep I agree. Something Like this would do it nice.
Gigabyte E-350 AMD ITX Motherboard HDMI and VGA - GA-E350N-WIN8 - CCL Computers (http://www.cclonline.com/product/108174/GA-E350N-WIN8/Motherboards/Gigabyte-E-350-Motherboard/MBD0487/)

Pointy
19-12-2013, 07:40 PM
My only concern with that is cooling. Laptops use some clever heatpipe arrangements for cooling. Also hard drive etc connections usually rely on the case for support. Personally I'd buy a cheap motherboard/CPU/RAM combo, you can get some good deals online.

The laptop just had a large chunk of copper, & fan nothing fancy. It's a really old P4 laptop, that has no keyboard, and the hinges are shot, so it's not much use for anything else. Drives Mach3 and the CNC without any issues though.


Yep I agree. Something Like this would do it nice.
Gigabyte E-350 AMD ITX Motherboard HDMI and VGA - GA-E350N-WIN8 - CCL Computers (http://www.cclonline.com/product/108174/GA-E350N-WIN8/Motherboards/Gigabyte-E-350-Motherboard/MBD0487/)

That's a good deal but....


It means spending more money, when I already have a suitable laptop!
I'd have to get a PSU in there somewhere.(The laptop brick would be easier to integrate)
Don't like integrated CPU's (Couldn't work out if it could be replaced or upgraded)


Regards,

Les

Pointy
19-12-2013, 08:07 PM
links to other aluminium suppliers

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/items-ebay-uk/6728-kb-aluminium-profile-supplies.html

I just wanted to say thanks to Kris from KB Aluminium, he has been very helpful so far, for absolutely no gain. (Mainly down to me being stubborn with my design & budget)

To be honest I was also to buy from Valuframe until they whacked a 30 carriage charge on top, which I felt was a bit on the steep side.

What amazes me with this stuff is that the fixtures and fittings are costing more than the actual profile. Perhaps I should super glue it together, or use some old toilet roll holder and sticky back plastic. :friendly_wink: Actually I could just stick with the MDF frame I have and put some windows in it!:smug:

Regards,

Les

EddyCurrent
20-12-2013, 11:32 PM
What amazes me with this stuff is that the fixtures and fittings are costing more than the actual profile. Perhaps I should super glue it together, or use some old toilet roll holder and sticky back plastic. :friendly_wink: Les

Get Valerie Singleton on the job.

Pointy
31-01-2014, 08:55 PM
I finally started to make some progress on this upgrade. I have the frame pretty much built and I am just waiting for some more bits just to finish it off. Today I dissected the laptop down to the bare motherboard and completely dismantled the old controller box. It looks like everything is going to fit in to the top box nicely with plenty of room to spare.

Using a 25pin gender changer I should be able to connect the BOB directly to the laptop motherboard without the need for a cable. I have ordered the IDE to SATA connector, so I can use an old 64GB SATA SSD on the laptop motherboard and I have also cut down the laptop PSU lead and hard-wired it to the motherboard. That side of things I am pretty confident about and if I keep all the mains stuff over one side don't foresee any problems with the electronics.

So the only couple of things I need advice with now are the earthing and panel cut-outs.

I presume it would be sensible to make sure all of the aluminium panels are connected together and earthed. The slot reducing profile (http://www.motedis.co.uk/shop/Slot-profiles-accessories/Accessoiries-30-B-Type-slot-8/Cover-and-Reduction-Profile-black-B-type-slot-8::99999127.html) is plastic and insulates the panels from the profile frame, so I would need to do some manual connecting.

The panels are 3mm aluminium and I will obviously need cut-outs for the switches, connectors, LEDS etc. My machine, apart from being in bits, is not big enough to do the panels anyway as they are 117mm x 440mm. I know it's a difficult question to answer without more detail but any ideas what sort of cost to get these machined? What software to design the panels that makes it easy to convert to GCode?

Anyway, I'll maybe try and takes some pictures over the weekend if anyone is interested.

Regards,

Les

EddyCurrent
31-01-2014, 09:37 PM
Yes, all metal parts should be at the same potential.
Regarding the panel cutouts all I've ever needed was some suitably sized drills and some files.

JAZZCNC
31-01-2014, 09:53 PM
I know it's a difficult question to answer without more detail but any ideas what sort of cost to get these machined? What software to design the panels that makes it easy to convert to GCode?

Just draw it in any Cad package and export has DXF.
Regards machining price then if you send material to me cover postage etc and it's simple one off panel I'll cut it FOC.

Pointy
02-02-2014, 10:48 PM
Just draw it in any Cad package and export has DXF.
Regards machining price then if you send material to me cover postage etc and it's simple one off panel I'll cut it FOC.

WOW! that is a very generous offer Jazz, but I wouldn't expect anyone to do it for free, it has to be worth a couple of beers at least.

It wouldn't be a one off as there will be a front and back back. I am also considering cutting some holes for 90mm fans on each side.


Regarding the panel cutouts all I've ever needed was some suitably sized drills and some files.

That's how I have always done it, but seeing as I am spending so much time and effort on this, it would be nice to get it done properly. It would also be nice if I could get some text engraved as well.

I haven't done any more on the enclosure this weekend, as I still need a few parts but I did manage to get another cool feature working. I have successfully made a plugin for Mach3 that talks to my custom USB hardware, and I can turn on real LED's to mimic some of the Mach3 software LEDs. I can also send keystrokes via buttons, which should mean I can control the most common features of Mach3 without touching the keyboard or mouse.

Regards,

Les

JAZZCNC
03-02-2014, 12:03 AM
WOW! that is a very generous offer Jazz, but I wouldn't expect anyone to do it for free, it has to be worth a couple of beers at least.

It wouldn't be a one off as there will be a front and back back. I am also considering cutting some holes for 90mm fans on each side.

Don't mind doing it FOC but My main problem is I'm very time limited so machine is always busy when I'm in workshop and fitting in large jobs just hisn't possible without planning well ahead and recently machines been broke down so I'm well behind anyway but I can slip in the Odd quick job so if it's quick I'll do it.

Draw it up and let me have a look.

Pointy
03-02-2014, 12:11 AM
Don't mind doing it FOC but My main problem is I'm very time limited so machine is always busy when I'm in workshop and fitting in large jobs just hisn't possible without planning well ahead and recently machines been broke down so I'm well behind anyway but I can slip in the Odd quick job so if it's quick I'll do it.

Draw it up and let me have a look.

Thanks again, I have an idea in mind of what I want, but I need decide on the switches, buttons & connectors. It could be a couple of weeks off yet, depending on when the other parts arrive. Anyway as soon as I have a rough idea I will draw something up.

Regards,

Les

EddyCurrent
03-02-2014, 05:02 AM
That's how I have always done it, but seeing as I am spending so much time and effort on this, it would be nice to get it done properly. It would also be nice if I could get some text engraved as well.

Why not knock something up quick so you can use your machine to make the panels ?

Pointy
04-02-2014, 05:42 PM
I just noticed that the PSU for the controller is only 4.5A. It's this model (http://www.cnc-shopping.co.uk/mean-well-s-100-24-power-supply-24v-45a-p-3384.html?osCsid=008e2cf7a970bc366fdb5c03bdd0bd3f) to be exact.

Now I have no idea what the stepper motors are, as there is no numbers on the outside (they are about 56mm square), but I am guessing 4.5A probably doesn't leave much to spare. Seeing as I want to steal some of this power for some power LEDs or LED strips to light up the inside of the enclosure, I am thinking of upping this to 10a or so.

Any suggestions on which one to get?

Regards,

Les

njhussey
04-02-2014, 05:59 PM
You can get cheap 24V PSU's on eBay...Input AC110-220V Output DC 24V Regulated Switching Power Supply For LED Light | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Input-AC110-220V-Output-DC-24V-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-For-LED-Light-/350876512876?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item51b1deb26c) I got the 24V 250W one (although I got mine from Hong Kong) for driving 4.5A. LED strips only take a couple of hundred mAh depending on how long your strip was so you won't need anything too large! Also most LED's are 12V so you will need to factor that into the equation. Why don't you get a 240V to 12V LED PSU transformer like this one 18w LED Driver Power Supply Transformer 240V - DC 12V | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18w-LED-Driver-Power-Supply-Transformer-240V-DC-12V-/400442646666?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Night_Lights_Fairy_ Lights&hash=item5d3c3de08a)?

Pointy
07-02-2014, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the reply, but I think I would rather just have a single 24v supply, that gives extra for the motors and leaves me plenty to tap off should I want.

I have also had another turn around and decided to put a mini ITX board inside instead of the laptop. I have a bunch of 775 CPU's kicking around and a 4GB stick of DDR3, so all I need is the motherboard and PSU, which I have have just ordered.

I am also struggling to find some nice momentary, LED lit buttons, that don't cost a fortune. Anyone have any suggestions? These (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Metal-push-button-LED-Switch-Momentary-Latching-16mm-/171232391503?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&var=&hash=item27de3ef14f) are nice but at 5 a time could get rather expensive.

Regards,

Les

Pointy
10-02-2014, 07:30 AM
Well I went a bit OTT and got one of these (http://www.meanwell.com/search/HRPG-450/HRPG-450-spec.pdf). It was going very cheap on Ebay though, and I like the fact it has the remote option, this will make it easy to integrate into a safety system.

The mini ITX motherboard turned up and I was able to get that up and running without any dramas, and even though it isn't listed on the Intel website the Q6600 quad core I had laying around works fine with it. The only annoying thing is the parallel port is the other way up, so when I plug my gender changer in it flips the BOB upside down. I am not sure if anyone makes a NON inverting DB25 male - male, so looks like I might have to make up a short cable, or try and make my own instead.

Just waiting for the flex PSU for the PC and the above mentioned 24V PSU to arrive and then I can actually start thinking about assembly.

Regards,

Les

Pointy
18-02-2014, 10:21 AM
I am not sure if anyone is actually interested in this project/thread but I could do a build log for this. I have begun work on the controller box/electrics and should have the rest of the bits needed to complete the wiring here this week. It would be useful to get some feedback on my parts placement and other design ideas.

Regards,

Les

cncJim
18-02-2014, 10:39 AM
I would be interested in seeing your progress Les, get some pics up! :encouragement:
Jim

EddyCurrent
18-02-2014, 11:42 AM
I am not sure if anyone is actually interested in this project/thread . . .

Les, keep at it, sometimes feedback hits a lull I'm sure it's just because people have other things to do. As Jim says pictures are a great help.

Pointy
18-02-2014, 11:56 AM
Thanks for the replies guys, if I were to do a build log, which forum does it belong in?

Regards,

Les

EddyCurrent
18-02-2014, 12:00 PM
I would think here.

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gantry-router-build-logs/

Pointy
18-02-2014, 01:04 PM
Thanks Eddy, I have posted a new thread here (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gantry-router-build-logs/7193-cnc-3020-enclosure-upgrade.html#post55250).

Regards,

Les