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View Full Version : Bench lathe -opinions sought



cropwell
28-12-2013, 02:09 PM
My Clarke CL300 keeps shredding belts and I am ready to upgrade anyway.

What about this one as a replacement ? Anyone any experience of this machine or this seller ?

**NEW** AMA290VF Bench Lathe (11x27) Var.spd - power crossfeed - 38mm bore | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-AMA290VF-Bench-Lathe-11x27-Varspd-power-crossfeed-38mm-bore-/360463715479)

Cheers,

Rob

Saracen
28-12-2013, 06:10 PM
I can't comment on the quality of that particular lathe, but Warco seem to offer the same one, with a few extra bells and whistles:

http://www.warco.co.uk/metal-lathes-metalworking-lathe-machine/302934-wm290-variable-speed-lathe-wm-290-vf.html

Adrian.

cropwell
28-12-2013, 06:47 PM
Yes, it is another 600 for a stand and DRO's. I think that takes it out of my budget, but I might have word with Warco when they open up after the break. Somehow I trust Warco more than the other vendor. After all said and done it is a Chinese product, and I am a bit wary of the low-end machinery. I bought a Clarke CL300 from Machine Mart about 10 years ago, and it was basically crap. One day, for the hell of it, I might see if I can turn it into a lathe:witless:

EddyCurrent
28-12-2013, 06:48 PM
Or this one
Axminster Engineer Series SC8-AX1 Lathe - Lathes - Engineering Lathes - Metal Working | Axminster.co.uk (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-engineer-series-sc8-ax1-lathe)

Web Goblin
28-12-2013, 07:50 PM
Have a look through Lathes.co.uk and see if you can pick up a good old one. Stay away from that myford crap though.

irving2008
28-12-2013, 08:15 PM
They're all made in China nowadays, and are variants on the same basic design.

Choose your supplier on their aftersales service... personally I've had good support from Warco in the past. Not had any dealings personally with Harry at Amadeal other than a chat on the phone a couple of years ago but heard some good reports on other forums.

EddyCurrent
28-12-2013, 11:11 PM
Not had any dealings personally with Harry at Amadeal other than a chat on the phone a couple of years ago but heard some good reports on other forums.

I've ordered from Amadeal a couple of times, no problem whatsover, very good.
I've also spent a lot of money at Axminster Tools and they are also very good indeed.

cropwell
30-12-2013, 01:20 AM
I haven't spent a lot of money at Axminster Tools, but when the slide plate broke on my CL300 MachineMart were out of stock with expected delivery 12 months and ArcEuro were saying 5 months. Axminster had 5 which they found in a dark corner of their warehouse.

Their customer service I would rate as superb.

Having said that, I am going to talk to Warco as their version of the 290VF has a lot of goodies with it, which makes 2,490 an attractive price, even if it is more than I want to spend at the moment.

Cheers,

Rob

irving2008
30-12-2013, 09:20 AM
You have to look at these things as a long term investment. What's the 'cost' of not going for the higher spec? A DRO saves time so if used commercially will boost productivity. Even in hobby terms 'time' has a value. I'd add a QCTP in that category too. IMHO having all your toolbits pre-aligned is a big time saver as well as potentially avoiding costly errors. 600 more over the life of the machine is <60 a year. Unless you're using a payday lender to fund the purchase the additional cost is far cheaper than the return on any 'savings' you make.

cropwell
30-12-2013, 09:54 AM
Actually, the financial arguments, whilst still sound, are not relevant to me. Let's face it I am buying myself a toy, but I want one that has a lot of play value. I don't want the frustration of having to mend it to use it. My tailstock accessories only need a MT2 to MT3 converter. All my cutting tools are 8mm, so I may need to buy a heftier set and the Warco machine comes with a stand, fixed and travelling steadies and 3jaw self centring and 4 jaw independent chucks, plus a lot of other goodies.

It certainly beats getting socks for Christmas, especially as I never wear them (prefer seamed stockings :whistle: [I am bearded, 145 kg and 1.7m tall - now get that mental picture out of your mind])

Happy New Year to All.

Rob

cropwell
31-12-2013, 10:08 AM
I have a feeling that the decision is made ! Amadeal can better the Warco price and up the spec of the machine to have a 3 phase brushless motor with inverter. I am going to see them on Friday 3rd Jan and probably commit to buy.

Thanks for the input.

Regards

Rob

BTW - really appreciate the forum, those members with wisdom and experience, share it with good spirit. Old friends banter with good humour and there is a real 'blokes in sheds' feel.
I have seen other forums degenerate to boasting or slanging matches and it destroys the forum. My son, who is wise beyond his 40 years (but still needs me to wire a plug) reminds me of two things : 1. Never argue with a fool in case he does the same. and 2. By demeaning others you only demean yourself.

My own motto is : If it can't be fixed with duct tape or a hammer, it's probably electrical.

irving2008
31-12-2013, 11:53 AM
...My own motto is : If it can't be fixed with duct tape or a hammer, it's probably electrical.

If it moves and shouldn't - use duct tape;
If it doesn't move and should - use WD40.

:joyous:

cropwell
31-12-2013, 12:17 PM
WD40 ??? Nah ! use the big 'ommer (IBM fine adjuster)

Clive S
31-12-2013, 12:57 PM
And if it doesn't move with a big hammer, find a bigger one. ..Clive

magicniner
01-01-2014, 12:55 PM
If shredding belts is your only problem with the Clarke have you considered changing the pulley & belt type?
Apart from anything else it's an excuse for a lathe project ;-)

- Nick

magicniner
01-01-2014, 01:08 PM
Have a look through Lathes.co.uk and see if you can pick up a good old one. Stay away from that myford crap though.

In a strangely uninformed way he's right, the Myfords do tend to sell for far more than they're worth.
That said almost all the arguments against a decent Super 7 at the right price for hobby use are based on lack of turning experience or simple inability to setup a job on a lathe.

- Nick

cropwell
01-01-2014, 02:14 PM
If shredding belts is your only problem with the Clarke have you considered changing the pulley & belt type?
Apart from anything else it's an excuse for a lathe project ;-)

- Nick
Yes Nick - it is an excuse for a lathe project. I will be changing the belt and pulley for something better, by buying a new machine. The Clarke is too small and too flimsy to be accurate. I am thinking in terms of changing it into a tool sharpener, or maybe just flog it for what I can get.

Cheers,

Rob

cropwell
03-01-2014, 07:17 PM
Well the die is cast, I have put a deposit on an Amadeal 290V-FF with 2 axis DRO and the brushless 3 phase motor with a Delta inverter. Just need to tidy up the workshop to get the new one in when it arrives in February. In the meantime I will be building a sudsoil distribution system, using the lathe as the principal slinging device.

Now to get down to the real task of making something half decent of my MD A4 crapezoidal machine. Design advice will be sought in a new thread.

Cheers,:beer:

Rob

Stuart Winsor
16-01-2014, 12:44 AM
Sounds nice. I'm going down on Saturday and Hugh has offered to special order in the belt drive version.

Stuart Winsor
16-01-2014, 12:48 AM
I think the real downside of the Myfords is the small spindle bore, otherwise they are a fine lathe. I think a re-conditioned one from Myford would have been a good buy if you were only turning small diameter stuff. (Yes, I know about the later "big bore" versions but you need rather more cash than many people have available)

Neale
16-01-2014, 11:29 AM
I've been very happy with my Myford - but I bought it as-new around 35 years ago when the market was very different and the current Chinese machines weren't around. My current frustration with it is that the spindle bore isn't anywhere near big enough to turn the ends of useful size ballscrews. I envy you the DRO on a lathe, though - I didn't realise just how useful they were until I bought a vertical mill with 3-axis DRO. Don't suppose that I've looked at a leadscrew dial more than a couple of times on that machine!

irving2008
16-01-2014, 11:46 AM
I've been very happy with my Myford - but I bought it as-new around 35 years ago when the market was very different and the current Chinese machines weren't around. My current frustration with it is that the spindle bore isn't anywhere near big enough to turn the ends of useful size ballscrews. I envy you the DRO on a lathe, though - I didn't realise just how useful they were until I bought a vertical mill with 3-axis DRO. Don't suppose that I've looked at a leadscrew dial more than a couple of times on that machine!
Its not hard to fit a couple of cheap digital calipers to a lathe for a poor mans DRO, and even get the readout on a big display with some jiggery-pokery... of course its easier but not cheaper to buy it pre-fitted...


1128911290

Stuart Winsor
18-01-2014, 12:01 AM
I've been very happy with my Myford - but I bought it as-new around 35 years ago when the market was very different and the current Chinese machines weren't around. My current frustration with it is that the spindle bore isn't anywhere near big enough to turn the ends of useful size ballscrews. I envy you the DRO on a lathe, though - I didn't realise just how useful they were until I bought a vertical mill with 3-axis DRO. Don't suppose that I've looked at a leadscrew dial more than a couple of times on that machine!

No DRO on my current lathe but I will be ordering them fitted on the new one. Can't find much information on the ones they fit though, maybe Hugh can supply more information when I see him tomorrow. I fitted cheap DRO scales on the mill and they work fine.

Stuart Winsor
18-01-2014, 08:18 PM
Sounds nice. I'm going down on Saturday and Hugh has offered to special order in the belt drive version.

Well, the deed is done but like Cropwell I've ordered the three phase FF with DRO instead. That means I've got to get a move on in organising my workshop! I was originally feeling quite laid back about it, thinking I was going to have to wait till about April. now it's 4-6 weeks! I suppose there are other people's bench designs somewhere in the archives?

Stuart Winsor
08-03-2014, 10:45 PM
Within three days of placing the order, Hugh contacted me to advise he had sold the same lathe to two people so I was going to have to wait after all. I therefore reverted to my original plan. 27th of Feb I enquired if he was able to give a firmer date so that I could schedule the neccessary work into my future action plan and Edward replied "10th March"! Eeek! Hugh was going to double check as my lathe might be in "the second container". In the mean time, manufacture of the bench has commenced. All joints are cut but they still have to be "fitted", then there is assmbly and painting and I still have to clear the corner of the workshop where it will reside.

Stuart Winsor
08-03-2014, 10:46 PM
Strange, I thought I had added a photo

cropwell
09-03-2014, 09:23 AM
According to Edward at Amadeal, delivery is arranged for Tuesday 11th March. The only problems are a) that I have 40+ metres of steel sections in half lengths along my workshop floor, b) that I have two cupboards which I am making for the bedroom needing a clean space for spray painting and c) I have a stinking cold and feel like crap.

I have bought a whole list of accessories for the lathe, including a collet chuck set on an MT4 taper holder. So I need a sleeve MT5 to 4. Aim Tools show one on eBay, so I bought it. what arrived was MT5 to MT2 (box labelled 5 - 4). One week has gone by and they are still pissing about checking their stock and have not yet told me whether they can replace it with the correct one. I wish I had checked their feedback as they seem to have a habit of messing customers about when they cock up. Next week I will get my money back from PayPal, order from RDG and Aim can come and collect their sleeve.

So there's something to bear in mind if you plan to buy from Aim.

BTW Stuart, how do you plan to get the machine from crate to bench ? It weighs near 1/4 ton.

Stuart Winsor
09-03-2014, 03:43 PM
Sounds like you have a few problems. Where are you in the UK, maybe some of us could lend a hand in some way?

I too ordered a load of accessories from Hugh but I ordered the ER32 "holder". This is the flange fitting version which means the spindle bore stays clear and available. I have the same on my minilathe.

Not come across AIM tools, I use RDG, Chronos, ArcEurotrade and now, of course, Amadeal. Forewarned is forearmed as they say.

Lifting heavy items onto benches was an issue I faced when upgrading my mill a couple of years ago. Engine hoists seem to be popular - beg, borrow or, erm, hire - but I wasn't convinced of their suitability under my circumstances. While pondering the issue, along with which mill to choose, I spotted an electric hoist on Chester's stand at the Midlands ME show. It looked, at first glance, like it would hang on a piece of 50x50 box section (it's actually designed to fit something like a scaffold pole) so I consulted a civil engineering friend of mine. I could use a maximum length of 1.7m of 50x50 to safely produce an overhead "crane". If I wanted to span the whole width of the garage I would need something like 75x75x5 box. It would also be quite involved as I would have to take down a large 12" wide shelf, which ran more or less the full length of the garage along the opposite wall, which held my wood stock. There was no way I felt the 4x2s supporting the roof would carry that weight so a prop was devoised to support the inner end. The final result can be seen here:

Hoist Photos by stuartwinsor | Photobucket (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/stuartwinsor/library/hoist)

(Can't work out how to upload photo's here and, in any case, this album already exists)

Also see:

Workshop Photos by stuartwinsor | Photobucket (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/stuartwinsor/library/Workshop)

which shows the mill on its stand and the area where the new lathe will be.

Initially I thought of relocationg the hoist to the end where the lathe will be but, again, the big shelf is in the way and because of the window there is no brickwork to support that end of the beam. Instead I have bought some heavy duty castors from "Bazroll" on ebay and will move the bench to the lathe instead.

I will put up some pictures of the bench (still under construction) in due course.

GEOFFREY
09-03-2014, 04:07 PM
Over the years I have had several ex-school benchtop machines - Denford Micromill, a Starmill and Novamill, a Boxford Vmc 160(I think that's what it was) and an Emco Pc 50 mill, also a couple of lathes, but I never managed to get a lathe running. I bought a wheeled motorcycle lift/jack from Macro for about 40 and frigged up platform on it such that at maximum lift it is just higher than the bench. When fully lowered the platform height is just right for transferring a machine to/from my van. Moving benchtop machines is no longer a problem, even if the method seems unusual. G.

Stuart Winsor
09-03-2014, 04:19 PM
P.S.

I should have mentioned.

I purchased a "Load leveller", CRA-LL450 from Chester,

two 8mm bow shackles:
2 x Tested 8mm Bow Shackles SWL 0.75 ton (Lifting Gear) | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Tested-8mm-Bow-Shackles-SWL-0-75-ton-Lifting-Gear-/251330121581?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipmen t_Accessories_SM&hash=item3a84714f6d)

the bolt is the right size to slip through the links on the chain provided by Chester.

two 12mm bow shackles:
2 x Tested 12mm Bow Shackles SWL 2.00 ton (Lifting Gear) | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Tested-12mm-Bow-Shackles-SWL-2-00-ton-Lifting-Gear-/310735466814?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipmen t_Accessories_SM&hash=item485946f13e)

The bolt will pass through the eye of the above shackles and has a large enough eye to accomodate the two ends of a 1m sling:

2 x Duplex 1 meter x 1 ton Webbing Lifting Sling Straps | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Duplex-1-meter-x-1-ton-Webbing-Lifting-Sling-Straps-/360191583955?pt=UK_Lifting_Moving_Equipment&hash=item53dd1766d3)

cropwell
09-03-2014, 04:27 PM
I am just having a break from making 4 brackets to hang a piece of scaffolding pole above where the lathe is to go, spreading the load over 4 joists. A friend is lending me a winch to take the weight of the machine and I reckon that with my son, son-in-law, next door neighbour and his two sons, we should have enough muscle to get the machine in place at the weekend.
I live in Cropwell Bishop, South Notts, and thanks for the thought, but I am sure I can get the lathe installed.

Stuart Winsor
09-03-2014, 05:33 PM
I am just having a break from making 4 brackets to hang a piece of scaffolding pole above where the lathe is to go, spreading the load over 4 joists. A friend is lending me a winch to take the weight of the machine and I reckon that with my son, son-in-law, next door neighbour and his two sons, we should have enough muscle to get the machine in place at the weekend.
I live in Cropwell Bishop, South Notts, and thanks for the thought, but I am sure I can get the lathe installed.

I think I'm probably just over-cautious, hence my consultation with my civil engineer friend, but it sounds a little scary to me; Of course I haven't seen the size and spacing of your joists.

I have read about a number of "iffy" sounding arrangement for lifting heavy machinery and they all seemed to have worked.

Good luck and don't forget the "totectors"

(I'm in Kenilworth, Warwickshire)

cropwell
09-03-2014, 06:15 PM
My favourite style of engineering is 'Victorian Steam', but the brackets ended up '50s Agricultural. Still I am a farm boy at heart (Fillongley, Warwickshire). Totectors will not be needed as I am not in the lift team. The joists are about 16 inches apart and are 7" x 2", mounted on brick walls at both ends.

Stuart Winsor
09-03-2014, 10:06 PM
My favourite style of engineering is 'Victorian Steam', but the brackets ended up '50s Agricultural. Still I am a farm boy at heart (Fillongley, Warwickshire). Totectors will not be needed as I am not in the lift team. The joists are about 16 inches apart and are 7" x 2", mounted on brick walls at both ends.

I know what you mean about Victorian vs agricultural. I also know Fillongley, I lived in Keresley for a while.

7x2 joists is good and much more substantial than my 4x2 so you're probably in with a fighting chance.

Mind someone doesn't step on your toe :-)

My standard wear in the workshop is a pair of trainer style safety shoes and I feel undressed without them.

cropwell
10-03-2014, 11:17 PM
Had a word with Hugh at Amadeal and I will be swapping the MT4 ER32 collet chuck for a flange mount one. This will be better for milling on a lathe as the MT chuck is not good with radial loads, being more designed for axial ones.
Stuart - I PM'd you with something off topic

Rob T

Stuart Winsor
11-03-2014, 01:19 AM
Stuart - I PM'd you with something off topic

Rob T

Yes, sorry. One of our daughters presented us with our first grandchild today so things have become a little hectic. It's late now but I will get back to you about it.

navins
11-03-2014, 07:39 AM
Why don't you ask to direct machine sellers.
They will well entertain you OR guide you to choose.
I suggest you to go for second hand option if and only if you can't afford to buy this kind of machine.

Stuart Winsor
11-03-2014, 10:42 PM
Why don't you ask to direct machine sellers.
They will well entertain you OR guide you to choose.
I suggest you to go for second hand option if and only if you can't afford to buy this kind of machine.

To get independant advice. A machine vendor will only tell you how wonderful /his/ machines are. He won't tell you about any of their faults or failings or that someone else has better machines or customer service.

navins
12-03-2014, 06:14 AM
To get independant advice. A machine vendor will only tell you how wonderful /his/ machines are. He won't tell you about any of their faults or failings or that someone else has better machines or customer service.

It is depend on you, where you are doing inquiry. Can I suggest one dealer from India.
They are second hand Machine dealer.

irving2008
12-03-2014, 07:54 AM
Don't feed the spammers...

navins
12-03-2014, 08:10 AM
Who is the Spammer here?

cropwell
12-03-2014, 10:10 AM
The deal is done and paid, I am now awaiting delivery on an Amadeal 290-VFF in the next few days. The lathe is made by Weiss in China, and although I could have bought it cheaper directly, or got a similar deal from Warco, I decided that Hugh and Edward at Amadeal were better people to deal with.
.
Cheers,

Rob

navins
12-03-2014, 10:14 AM
Cheers.
Good. My blesses with you.

Stuart Winsor
13-03-2014, 10:46 PM
It is depend on you, where you are doing inquiry. Can I suggest one dealer from India.
They are second hand Machine dealer.

Do you really think that someone in the UK is stupid enough to buy a second-hand machine from India, which they haven't even seen, and pay the extortionate shipping costs when we have plenty of dealers, of good repute, of used machines here in the UK?

Besides which, Cropwell was asking about NEW machines.

navins
14-03-2014, 06:32 AM
Somebody going to buy or Not, really I don't have any idea about this rather I can't predict that.
But if somebody really need anything, then he will reach at anyplace in the world.
So if felt I was wrong then fine.
Sorry for suggestion. Avoid this thread.
Have a nice day.


Do you really think that someone in the UK is stupid enough to buy a second-hand machine from India, which they haven't even seen, and pay the extortionate shipping costs when we have plenty of dealers, of good repute, of used machines here in the UK?

Besides which, Cropwell was asking about NEW machines.