Chinese 3040T Arrives

[Gregor]

Hi
Well my cnc 3040 which i order at the weekend has arrived,it was posted on Monday and i was told it would be with me in two to three days so 10 out off 10 for delivery as I live in Belfast it usually takes an extra day but not this time
.112021120311204 11205
I would have to give it 10 out off 10 for packing
11206motors and controller in this box plus leads1120711208112091121011211112121121311214
Now the fun starts setting it up(fingers crossed)

[GEOFFREY]

The service has certainly started well - super quick delivery and well packed. I look forward to finding out how it works. good luck. G.

[Jonathan]

I look forward to finding out how it works

It'll be brilliant :hysterical:

[Gregor]

Here is the video


http://youtu.be/BkZJ0DfNTtI

I have fitted the stepper motors but haven't switched it on yet. is there anything i should cheack before i switch it on??

[EddyCurrent]

Read the manual then get her fired up. Used within it's capabilities it might work fine, it will be interesting to find out.

[routercnc]

What sort of thing do you hope to make with it?

I know poeple will be looking at the unsupported rails, the leadscrews (not ballscrews), and assumed low performance drivers in the controller, but I'm sure for engraving and light wood cuts it will be lots of fun and it get you into the hobby.

In terms of setup I would expect it to be fairly plug and play.

[Gregor]

I hope it will work on 3mm thick oak and 3mm phenolic board nothing to heavy but i might try some aluminium but iam not bothered if it didn't work on the aluminium

[JAZZCNC]

I hope it will work on 3mm thick oak and 3mm phenolic board nothing to heavy but i might try some aluminium but iam not bothered if it didn't work on the aluminium

Absolutely Don't try cutting aluminium with this machine has you'll kill the spindle within hours not days.!! . . . . The spindle is the weak link on this machine by far.!
The rest is So so Ok for light duty engraving etc but if pushed remotely hard it's life will shorten quite quickly.! . . . . . Good starter machine to get you going but must be run well within it's limits to avoid dissapointment and premature failure.!

Edit: Very light engraving on aluminium will be ok but would only do this for short periods and keep the cut depth low.!

[Gregor]

Thanks for the advice jazzcnc I don't really do Any aluminium work, I have it all hook up and I have an old dell laptop I have had from 2002 loaded with mach3 , I might switch it on tomorrow night but might be away working for a couple off weeks waiting on phone call .

[JAZZCNC]

Thanks for the advice jazzcnc I don't really do Any aluminium work, I have it all hook up and I have an old dell laptop I have had from 2002 loaded with mach3 , I might switch it on tomorrow night but might be away working for a couple off weeks waiting on phone call .

It's not recommended to use a Laptop with Mach3 and you may very well run into problems. The energy saving features built into laptops processors interfear with mach3's Parallel port driver and you could get all sorts of strange happenings. It's for this reason Artsoft state Laptops not supported.!!

It may work but most likely not and could be very unstable so if it does and you get Odd things happening or Locking up then it will be this not the machine.!

[Gregor]

Jazzcnc you were right about the laptop the stepper motors were moving about 10mm then stopping and starting but I managed to do a fix on the laptop by disabling the ACPI driver in the laptop and everything seems to be working fine.I just followed the manual and inputted the settings that came with the machine
Here is a video off the first test


http://youtu.be/u7RIzgwtghI

[Lee Roberts]

Gregor,

Well done on getting this far, I look forward to seeing how the machine performs and your progress.

Jonathan posted some gcode before that you can use to test your motor tuning: Random G-code for testing motor tuning. (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gcode/5843-random-g-code-testing-motor-tuning.html) Have you put a dial indicator over the machine to check everything is true yet?, just somthing you may like to do at this early stage as part of "setting it up".

.Me

[Gregor]

No Lee Roberts I haven't put a dial over the machine as off yet but hope to get a chance later tonight, everything has gone better than I thought it would, I have heard allot off horror stories about these machines but so far so good.I think I will rewire the cables going to the stepper motors as it doesn't seem to be of good quality.Thanks for the G-code Test

[Lee Roberts]

No Lee Roberts I haven't put a dial over the machine as off yet but hope to get a chance later tonight, everything has gone better than I thought it would, I have heard allot off horror stories about these machines but so far so good.I think I will rewire the cables going to the stepper motors as it doesn't seem to be of good quality.Thanks for the G-code Test

Ok cool, me too that is why I would like to see you be successful with it and give the unit a chance. The clue is in the writing on the spindle control box "Engraving Machine", I think some people forget at times that not everyone is trying to replicate a £10k+ milling machine!

Good luck, I look forward to seeing the first cuts, keep the pics and vids coming :thumsup:

.Me

[Gregor]

I was having a look in the control Box and noticed that were they had grounded the earth wire to the bottom off the box wasn't actually grounded because off the paint so I undid the nut and scraped away the paint and now the Control box is earth so if you have one off these boxes you should check just to be on the safe side.

[Gregor]

Lee here is a quick video off the cnc machine using the G-code test

http://youtu.be/3o3_vEqH7Wg
I will try cutting something with it when I get back in about 3 weeks.

[routercnc]

All sounds like it is running smoothly, nothing bent or highspots.

Out of interest do these type of kits come with limits/home switches? Or are they saving a bit of money and relying on soft stops / end stalls.

[Gregor]

It seems to be ok so far but I haven't cut anything with it yet,No there is no limits or home switches fitted to the machine, I hope to fit some but I am not to smart when it comes to pcb boards and haven't a clue if they can be fitted to this machine I know the spindle board is called a yoocnc pw3024
11246

[EddyCurrent]

No there is no limits or home switches fitted to the machine, I hope to fit some but I am not to smart when it comes to pcb boards and haven't a clue if they can be fitted to this machine I know the spindle board is called a yoocnc pw3024

This might be useful

Experience with carving-cnc.com 6040 router - Page 3 (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/chinese_machines/157193-experience_carving-computer-numeric-control_com_6040_router-3.html)

[Gregor]

Hi
I am going to change the cables going to the motors as I have been reading that the cables fitted are not very good,could anybody give me some advice on what cable to use and were to buy them,
thanks

[Clive S]

Hi
I am going to change the cables going to the motors as I have been reading that the cables fitted are not very good,could anybody give me some advice on what cable to use and were to buy them,
thanks

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Have some fun with the machine first. If you really want to change them I would use either 0.75 or 1mm^2 CY 4 core cable for this machine. here is one place Cy Cable Per Meter 4 core (0.75mm CY Cable) ONLY £0.48 (http://www.quickbit.co.uk/Cable/CY-Cable/CY-Cable-4-core/CY-Cable-0-75mm-4-core).. ..Clive

[JAZZCNC]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Have some fun with the machine first. If you really want to change them I would use either 0.75 or 1mm^2 CY 4 core cable for this machine. here is one place Cy Cable Per Meter 4 core (0.75mm CY Cable) ONLY £0.48 (http://www.quickbit.co.uk/Cable/CY-Cable/CY-Cable-4-core/CY-Cable-0-75mm-4-core).. ..Clive

Good advise because it's not just the cable being rubbish thats the problem there's the connectors has well plus often the Cable chain is too small so you'll end up replacing has well. Only do it if needed and then do the Lot.

[Washout]

Most (including me use 4 wire CY shielded cable) on their machines - I think I got mine from RS Components, but that's likely the expensive route.....you'll need to make sure all your shielding is grounded to a single point to mains ground (a star point is the term iirc) and make sure the far end of the cables at the motors etc. is not contacting anything to avoid ground loops (these are bad). I used bits of heat shrink to ensure isolation for the far ends.

Hope that helps......

[Gregor]

Thanks for the advice,Think I will order cable and connectors so I have them but won't fit until there is a fault.

[EddyCurrent]

In this instance what is the difference between 'good cables' and 'not very good cables' ? also will your proposed 'good cables' fit inside the energy chain ?

[Gregor]

Good point EddyCurrent. There is a local electrical wholesalers close who I am friendly with so I will check with him I hope he would be able to get 4 wire CY shielded cable the same size,

[JAZZCNC]

In this instance what is the difference between 'good cables' and 'not very good cables' ? also will your proposed 'good cables' fit inside the energy chain ?

My experience with these machines is that standard cy cable from like of CSE cables etc is far superior. The stuff on these is brittle horrible stuff and the connectors are nasty so need hacking off. . . . . The cable chains on the one's I've dealt with where to tight and caused rubbing. . .. . . That's why I said what I said further down.!!

[EddyCurrent]

That's why I said what I said further down.!!

That's right, I couldn't agree more, I just wanted to know the difference between 'good' cable and 'not so good' cable in regard to why 'not so good' cable could not perform it's function in this instance.

[Gregor]

Back from a couple off weeks work I had a play with the cnc and took the table off it just for a nosey

http://youtu.be/s4iQmSsas7U
Hopefully I will get to put table back on and cut something tomorrow .

[EddyCurrent]

I think it's looking quite good.

[JAZZCNC]

I think it's looking quite good.

Well should have gone to spec savers.!!. .:hysterical:

[Gregor]

hi
Does anyone have a Gcode I code use to make my first cut on this machine. I have tried to do my own design using Sketchup and then using Cambam but I seem to balls it up. (Still Learning)

[JAZZCNC]

hi
Does anyone have a Gcode I code use to make my first cut on this machine. I have tried to do my own design using Sketchup and then using Cambam but I seem to balls it up. (Still Learning)

Ok here you go a cut down version of the Aztec calendar I knocked up to test a machine, takes about 45-50mins depending on how machines setup.

You'll need 90deg V bit or Spot drill cutter that must go to a sharp point.
100mm square of material. To get the best detail from it use some thing hard has the material so it holds the detail better.

The X0 Y0 is the bottom left hand corner of the square. The code only cuts the Aztec engraving and doesn't cut out the square so you'll need to do this your self.

Should look like the picture when finished.11317

[Gregor]

Thanks JAZZCNC
will give it a try later

[Gregor]

Here is the video of first cut..I nearly smashed up the laptop, I couldn't get the G-code to work five hours later I remembered that I hadn't installed my G-code license ..... I had the spindle speed set to slow at the start but turned it up halfway through,,, must off the video is in Benny Hill style,,,It took about 1hour 30 minutes to run G-code.

http://youtu.be/zsVSTGrNzJE

[EddyCurrent]

And are you pleased with the results ?

[Gregor]

Yes seems to be ok .if I had had the spindle at the right speed at the start I think it would have been better. I am happy with the machine and it will do everything I need it for and it cost under £500,I couldn't afford to spend thousands on a machine.But time will tell to see if it develops any faults...

[JAZZCNC]

They say the first cut is the deepist.!!. . . . But here it doesn't look like it's cut deep enough. .Lol

Did you have the Z height set to top of material.? Also I see the tool is not 90deg it's more like 30deg and thats why it doesn't look quite like right with fat lines etc.

The differance in speed is the accelleration in motor tuning on your machine will be set lower than what I had machine set on machine I was testing, which I think was around 1100s/s. Has you have seen this code has 1000's of tiny moves so the time to accellerate from one to other really adds up and for jobs like this the motor tuning biased towards Accel can really make big differance to cycle times.

[EddyCurrent]

I'd be having the spindle going much faster than 8000 rpm
The best method for wood anyway is to start at a fairly high speed and keep reducing it until the cut is visibly
worse, turn it back up slightly and you have reached the best speed with regard to quality of cut vs tool wear.

[Gregor]

Thanks JAZZCNC
its the only tool I had that went to a point lol.I have only set the machine up to what the manual said so I think it will need a few changes.I set the z axis by using a piece of paper is that the wrong way to do it? This is the first cnc I have used so I am just doing what I see on YouTube .

[Gregor]

Thanks EddyCurrent
I think that's the top speed off this spindle or maybe it's 11000 I will have to check

[Gregor]

JAZZCNC here are the settings that cam with the machine
x and y axis steps per 400... velocity 2000...acceleration 200
z axis steps per 400....velocity 800.....acceleration 100

step pulse 10 for all 3 axis
dir pulse 3 for all three axis
what do you think?

[JAZZCNC]

JAZZCNC here are the settings that cam with the machine
x and y axis steps per 400... velocity 2000...acceleration 200
z axis steps per 400....velocity 800.....acceleration 100

step pulse 10 for all 3 axis
dir pulse 3 for all three axis
what do you think?

Every machine is different and motor tuning is dictated by the machine so I can't be specific with motor tuning and you'll just have to play with it.

What I can advise you do is make Tuning Profiles and adjust them rather than your main profile.
To do this just Copy your existing Profile in Mach Loader. This will give you an exact copy of the current Profile with all the same settings but under a new name which you can then tune to suit the type of work your doing or just for playing around with.

I have several Profiles tuned in differant ways.? So when doing mainly 3D type work I load the profile which has motor tuning biased towards acceleration rather than velocity.
Just remember when tuning motors you can't have high velocity and high acceleration, often you'll have to lower one to raise the other.

I also duplicate these Profiles and setup for Imperial units for when cutting G-code set for Imperial units.

The Code I gave you has a Max cutting feedate of about 800mm/min and the moves are very close together so high rapid speed between moves doesn't help has you never reach it. Basicly the machine has to accellerate to full speed then slow down again for next move and with such short moves no way can it get to full speed. The speed it reachs will depend on the accelleration so for jobs like this with such short moves then dropping the Velocity and raising the Accelleration will make a big differance to overall cycle times.

Setup a profile called 3D and try it. Drop Velocity to say 1500 and Accel to 500-600 and see the differance, Don't go quite so high on the Z axis and play about with them. If you start getting lost position or stalling motors then you will have gone to high on the Accleration.

[Gregor]

Ok I will have play with it thanks

[Gregor]

Hi
I had a play today and Drop Velocity to 1500 and Accel up to 600 and it cut the time from 1h 30m to 1h 15m and the motors seem to be ok. The cutting tools you get with this machine are useless is there anywhere that sells good quality end mills and engraving tools? Thanks for the advice guys.

[cimi]

I have the same machine... but I can not find tools.!!

[Gregor]

Second Cut On My CNC 3040, Using A 60deg V Bit.Drop Velocity to 1500 and Accel up to 600 and it cut the time from 1h 30m to 1h 15m and the motors seem to be ok.In the first cut video I used a 30deg v tool
http://youtu.be/NpzHUm8Y4Is

[JAZZCNC]

Second Cut On My CNC 3040, Using A 60deg V Bit.Drop Velocity to 1500 and Accel up to 600 and it cut the time from 1h 30m to 1h 15m and the motors seem to be ok.In the first cut video I used a 30deg v tool

Here's toolpaths suited to your cutters 30deg and 60deg but be aware they will cut much deeper has I limited the cut depth in the one you already cut.
These are full depth so you'll get more detail but will cut deeper and take longer so I suggest you have Mach3 do estimate run. I've put the depth in the name.

[Gregor]

Hi
Thanks JAZZCNC I will give it a try

[cimi]

how to reverse the rotation of the spindle?

[cimi]

My is 3040T and the spindle is a ER-11

[EddyCurrent]

how to reverse the rotation of the spindle?

Why would you want that ?, the collet nut is designed to rotate forwards, i.e. it is trying to tighten all the time.

[cimi]

For my tools...

because the blades of the tool are down...

They cut in opposite side..

[EddyCurrent]

I've not seen those, all I've seen are 'up spiral' and 'down spiral' cutters but they all rotate in the forward direction.

http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/trend/content/content_detail.php?record_type=Knowledge&id=15884

[cimi]

my turn in the clockwise direction.... it is right that there has to turn in that direction??

thanks for the reply me man...

[EddyCurrent]

Looking down on the machine all cutters should turn in the clockwise direction, same direction as a drill would. The up and down spirals are in opposite direction but they both cut in the clockwise direction.
Did you look at the link above to trend-uk.com ?

[cimi]

then I bay something wrong... :(

[JAZZCNC]

my turn in the clockwise direction.... it is right that there has to turn in that direction??

thanks for the reply me man...

Ok so lets first determine which way your spindle is actualy spinning.? It should be spinning in the clockwise direction does it.?

Can you show the cutters.?

[cimi]

clockwise direction....

[cimi]

instead the cutting tools have in counterclockwise

[cimi]

Looking down on the machine all cutters should turn in the clockwise direction, same direction as a drill would. The up and down spirals are in opposite direction but they both cut in the clockwise direction.
Did you look at the link above to trend-uk.com ?

on that site you sent me .. What can I take to have a complete kit?

[cimi]

EddyCurrent yes i see They...on that site you sent me .. What can I take to have a complete kit

[EddyCurrent]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean but this site might explain it in your own language;

Mandrini per Pantografo, Utensili Diamante, Frese per Pantografo - CMT Utensili (http://www.cmtutensili.it/show_items.asp?pars=RC~~2~1~2)

[cimi]

Sì quel sito io ho visto ma non sono sicuro quale utensili andrebbero bene per il mio mandrino ER-11

[cimi]

http://youtu.be/EHJ4O-neT-w

[cimi]

watch this video if you understand what I'm asking.... if you see tool runs contrary!!

[EddyCurrent]

Sì quel sito io ho visto ma non sono sicuro quale utensili andrebbero bene per il mio mandrino ER-11

The biggest you can use is a 1/4" shank with the right collet

ER11 Collets - Arc Euro Trade (http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collets/ER11-Collets)

[EddyCurrent]

watch this video if you understand what I'm asking.... if you see tool runs contrary!!

Yes I can see the tool runs contrary (anticlockwise) but you don't want that. If you want to use Italian to explain it better I can translate it to English with Google or Babylon.

[cimi]

should not turn that way is true?

[cimi]

Non riesco a capire.. qual è la colpa è la mia oppure della macchina?

[EddyCurrent]

Tutte le frese hanno bisogno del motore a ruotare in senso orario. Stai dicendo che c'è un problema con il vostro motore e non è possibile farlo anche in senso orario?

[cimi]

Sì... come posso farlo girare in senso orario??
E poi a te come ti sembra e giusto che il mandrino gira in quella direzione??

[EddyCurrent]

Si tratta di una nuova macchina ? È la prima volta che si utilizza? Come il motore è controllato da un INVERTER ?

[cimi]

Forse è questo provo a invertire i figli
http://www.dhgate.com/product/a126a-hx-pwm-pwm-dc-motor-speed-controller/115709107.html

[EddyCurrent]

See page 20 and page 26

http://mambohead.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/CNC-6040-Router-Engraver-System-Installation-Manual.pdf

[cimi]

Hanno lasciato i fili invertiti .. Man ho risolto il problema :)

[EddyCurrent]

Eccellente, buon divertimento

[cimi]

Grazie di tutto .... :)

[EddyCurrent]

For everyone,

Just for reference, this must have been a new machine and the problem was the spindle turned in the anticlockwise direction. It was a 2 wire DC spindle motor so the solution was to reverse the motor leads as described here, http://mambohead.com/wp-content/uplo...ion-Manual.pdf pages 20 and 26

[cimi]

Yes I do not I changed because I was afraid of burning the spindle.... but now it seems that it's all right I changed the 2 wire DC spindle motor + and -with and working properly .... thank you very much EddyCurrent

[richie00boy]

Swap the red and black connectors round on the motor.

[EddyCurrent]

Swap the red and black connectors round on the motor.

Yes that's what he did but due to the language barrier and lack of info it took a while to identify the issue.

[Pointy]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Have some fun with the machine first. If you really want to change them I would use either 0.75 or 1mm^2 CY 4 core cable for this machine. here is one place Cy Cable Per Meter 4 core (0.75mm CY Cable) ONLY £0.48 (http://www.quickbit.co.uk/Cable/CY-Cable/CY-Cable-4-core/CY-Cable-0-75mm-4-core).. ..Clive

Has anyone used this cable/supplier? It seems extremely cheap, but is it any good?

Regards,

Les

[Clive S]

Has anyone used this cable/supplier? It seems extremely cheap, but is it any good?

Regards,

Les

I have used them several times with no problems ..Clive

[JAZZCNC]

Has anyone used this cable/supplier? It seems extremely cheap, but is it any good?

Regards,

Les

Yes I've used them and the wire was ok but a little brittle compared to the stuff I get from CSE cables, thou it is cheaper.
Flexible Control Cable (http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/Flexible-Control-Cable.html)

[Gregor]

I have finally managed to make a simple control plate out off mahogany using Sketchup and then Cambam, with my computers skills very poor it took allot longer than it should have but I got there in the end.
http://youtu.be/b0izPti-nPE
I used an end mill with 2 flutes should I have used an end mill with 3 or 4 flutes ?

[JAZZCNC]

I used an end mill with 2 flutes should I have used an end mill with 3 or 4 flutes ?

No 2 flutes is fine and with more flutes the faster you would need the feedrate etc. From the Video it's hard to judge the feedrate because it's speeded up but from what I can see your cutting far to shallow and probably to slow.?

What were the feedrate and depth of cut.?

[Gregor]

the cut feed rate i set on cambam was 600 the depth was 0.5 and depth plunge rate was 200, the spindle speed was max which is only 8000 on this machine.

[Pointy]

I have used them several times with no problems ..Clive


Yes I've used them and the wire was ok but a little brittle compared to the stuff I get from CSE cables, thou it is cheaper.
Flexible Control Cable (http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/Flexible-Control-Cable.html)

Thanks for the replies guys, I have placed an order.


I have finally managed to make a simple control plate out off mahogany using Sketchup and then Cambam, with my computers skills very poor it took allot longer than it should have but I got there in the end.
http://youtu.be/b0izPti-nPE
I used an end mill with 2 flutes should I have used an end mill with 3 or 4 flutes ?

Nice work Gregor, it took me ages of experimenting to get something usable out of my machine when I got it, but it's quite satisfying when you do!

Regards,

Les

[futura]

Hello Everyone

Thanks to Gregor for taking the time out to upload these videos. very interesting to see what kind of kit someone else gets in their package.

I recently ordered the smaller router 3020 and have a very similiar opinion.

Awesome Packaging.
Mechanically it seems very solid.
Electronically it looks a little heath Robinson.

I have read many sources reporting the Earthing on the Unit is pretty sketchey.

I have also been reading more interestingly about apparently it is very easy to MOD the circuit and allowing you PWM motor spin control using MAch3.

Chinese 3020 CNC Machine Gets Some Upgrades (http://hackaday.com/2014/02/15/chinese-3020-cnc-machine-gets-some-upgrades/)

I haven't really had a chance yet to inspect the earthing or prize open the control box and inspect the stepper control board but I intend to do this soon.

I get the impression these machines are knocked out in one or two fairly small factories and then the choice of boards/PSU/steppers is all dealt with by someone else along the supply chain hence why we all seem to have slightly different kit. Also with varying prices depending on what the machine comes with.

My machine was 380 GBP with delivery from Southampton which for my needs is about all I could afford.

I think with the info I know now I would have preferred to buy just a RAW 3020 or 3040 I hear you can get them flat packed directly pretty cheap and then choose my own stepper boards and own steppers and own spindle motor.

My supplier although friendly - in terms of CNC knowledge is ni on zero and effectively once the machine arrives bar ensuring its not DOA or damaged in the post thats about the only support your gonna get.

In a weird kinda way I kind of like that idea LOL.

My intended use is for engraving DIY Synth Panels on traffolyte board. I have seen a friends of mine CNC machine actually cutting the traffolyte but I have a feeling this little machine might not have the grunt required to pull that off.

Software wise I have been looking at the following:

Artcam, Signlab, Flexisignpro, Vectric Aspire, Rhinoceros, Solid Works, Autodesk Alias, Articad, Autocad, Bobcad, Delcam Featurecam, Delcam Powermill, Front Panel Designer, Librecad, Inkscape, Pathtrace Edgecam, Progecad, Siemens Solid Edge, Turbocad, CNC Code Shooter, Mastercam, Delcam Power Mill, Kellyware
KKam, Progecad, Machinist Toolbox and Corel CAD

As far as I understand it for the actual design aspect you are looking for CAD software and for the motor control aspect you are looking for CAM software.

I think the motor control software responds to G-Codes that you can save as files but im not sure if you could for example design a panel in corel CAD then save this as a G-Code file?

It seems that some PCB software for example such as Eagle requires a third party conversion software to turn the PCB etch design into a set of G-Codes.

So perhaps its something like this:

DESIGN (CAD) > G-CODE Conversion (CONVERTOR) > Parallel Output (CAM, ie MAch 3) > Parallel Output to Stepper Board > Output to Steppers on CNC.


I have managed to get my machine responding to manual movements on Mach 3 but because the supplier sent me all the file names in Chinese I couldnt get it to read the G-Code tests. But.. i think everything is working okay.

What I am looking for is a package that I can use to design panels with things like volume control 0-10 with all the markings on and VU Meter slots, Detailed labelling all that kinda thing.

Here is a pic of the sort of thing I am looking to achieve with my machine.

My output is low ie one off boards for personal and hobby use.

http://s1.postimg.org/apphunte7/Front_panels_1.jpg
http://s7.postimg.org/qkjdwo9e3/Front_Panels_3.jpg

I have seen again a friend of mine using signlab for panel work but this was a long time ago and that friend is long gone.

Any suggestions or comments really appreciated.

Just to say I love the attitude of people on this forum a really nice range of newbies to experts so far been really interesting reading.

If anyones interested I would be very happy to post pictures of boards, aspects of the machine. Mainly to help others who might be in a similiar position to myself where by a massive block of metal turns up. A mountain of kit, a pigeon english manual and a supplier that can say yes and no!

I guess its the golden word you "get what you pay for" LOL.

[EddyCurrent]

I don't think you'll get a CAD program to output G code, this is a function of the CAM software or a third party add-on.
Re. your boards, just use VST it's easier :joker: only joking, looks a nice job.

[Clive S]

So perhaps its something like this:

DESIGN (CAD) > G-CODE Conversion (CONVERTOR) > Parallel Output (CAM, ie MAch 3) > Parallel Output to Stepper Board > Output to Steppers on CNC

Perhaps: like this:

DESIGN (CAD) > G-CODE Conversion (CAM) > Output ( ie MAch3 or Linuxcnc) > Parallel Output to Stepper Board > Output to Steppers motors on CNC. ..Clive

[futura]

I don't think you'll get a CAD program to output G code, this is a function of the CAM software or a third party add-on.
Re. your boards, just use VST it's easier :joker: only joking, looks a nice job.

LOL yeah VSTs are much easier!! I guess im just a sucker for punishment..

I was looking at VCarve im not sure if this can effectively CAD, CAM and Output to Machine but it seems the lines with some software get kinda blurred.

I assume if you pick software that does it all you kinda get a Jack of All trades master of none? However, vcarve looked pretty sweet but as of yet I dunno.


DESIGN (CAD) > G-CODE Conversion (CAM) > Output ( ie MAch3 or Linuxcnc) > Parallel Output to Stepper Board > Output to Steppers motors on CNC. ..Clive

Cheers clive that makes total sense now.

I think for now im gonna try and master the copy of mach3 I have then look into other machine control later.

I have heard KKam4 can output to these chinese machines as you can select what control code goes to what pin on the parallel port. Again I have no direct experience.

Tomorrow im gonna hack open the control box and take some pics. I am quite tempted to fix the earth issue (if its broke) and maybe tackle this automated drill speed control MOD if it looks easy.

I will definitely upload pics and ask before the soldering iron appears.

Cheers for all the feedback. Particularly as I am clearly asking numb nut style questions. I guess we have to start some where LOL.

[GEOFFREY]

I don't think you'll get a CAD program to output G code, this is a function of the CAM software or a third party add-on.
Re. your boards, just use VST it's easier :joker: only joking, looks a nice job.

Eddy, there are some programs that will output G code. I use Alphacam which is a propriety cad/cam program that outputs the code within a few mouse clicks - toolsize, direction of cut and which side of (or on) line and depth/no. of cuts. I admit that this is not a cheap option, but I find it a fantastic program. G.

[futura]

Just out of interest geoffrey does Alphacam provide Machine features as well? ie will spit out code to the Stepper Controller Box?

So i guess im asking does Alphacam provide CAD, CAM and Machine Control? Effectively a one stop shop.

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Futura,

I think your not quite understanding fully how the process goes and what Control software actually does.

The process of creating a working file goes like this. Design the part in CAD then load into CAM in which you define toolpaths and set cutting parameters, tool size, speed, depth etc. Then output the file in a format that your Control software understands.

Now most Control software's ie: Mach3, linux CNC use plane G-code files but some control softwares require dedicated files for them to work. So there's a Process within CAM at the time of outputing files known as Postprocessing. When outputing files you select the Post processor to suit your Control software so the file is formated to suit your control software.

Now control software like MAch3 does very little other than take this G-code file and translate it into Pulse's which is feed to the drives on the machine which inturn move the motors the correct amount. Other functions of the Control software is to watch and monitor Input signals. ie: E-stop, limits etc.
It also controls outputs which can be used within G-files and by CAM software to turn on/off external devices like Spindles, coolant, Air Etc These are known as M commands. ie M3 turns spindle ON M5 Off.

CAM as no interaction with Control software other than these special instructions, which it doesn't do directly but thru the codes in the files it outputs.
Some CAM packages will let you directly load the outputed file into the Control software but other than that they don't have any interaction.

Some packages as you have worked out are CAD/CAM and like you have worked out they can be OK but master of none.

So at the minimum you'll be working with two pieces of software, CAD/CAM and Control software.

Now Control software like Mach3 while very powerful are actually rather simple to use. They need setting up correctly so the motors move the correct distance and tuned so they don't loose steps etc along with being told which input pins to monitor and what output pins to turn on/off but when that is done, which is mostly a one time affair, then there isn't really a lot to learn.
In practice you'll basicly load in a G-code file, set the work Origin point ie: X0,Y0,Z0 and click cycle start sit back and watch it do it's thing.
If you have set the cutting parameters correctly in CAM then it will go smoothly but sometimes you need to tweak some parameters, like feed rate or spindle speed while cutting, so there are on screen controls to let you overide these on the fly. But other than that there is very little to do with the Control software after all has been setup.

Hope this helps.

[GEOFFREY]

Just out of interest geoffrey does Alphacam provide Machine features as well? ie will spit out code to the Stepper Controller Box?

So i guess im asking does Alphacam provide CAD, CAM and Machine Control? Effectively a one stop shop.

As Jazz has said, Alphacam is a CAD/CAM program, you can design and output the code via the post processor, but does not control the machine. G.

[futura]

Hello JazzCNC

thanks for your post..


Hope this helps.

I would say thats an understatement!!

Yeah that really does clarify things a whole LOT. I really appreciate you taking the time out to write this as it has certainly cleared up many things for me.

I suspect any other newbies reading this will also learn from this conversation.

I wish your post could have been included with the Chinese manual that came with the CNC machine. :D

Just out of interest what software would you recommend?

For CAD design I want to make traffolyte front panels for my synthesizer modules I design. I was thinking maybe Signlab? but also I have Corel Draw and now I am starting to realise the CAD side of things doesnt need to be so much machine orientated am i right in saying for CAD you can almost use anything you like or get on with?

For CAM I am looking for something that is not over complex but can hopefully be smart enough to assist with not just engraving the synth panels but also cutting the holes for the potentiometers and finally cutting the panel. I have looked at a demo of vcarve.

For control software I think for now I will stick with Mach 3 but I am also all ears in terms of other options such as LinuxCNC or KKam etc.

I have a feeling I may hit brick limits in terms of actual cutting with the router ie it will engrave the traffolye happily but I am unsure of how it will perform in terms of actually cutting holes or cutting out the plate.

Im one of these people that likes to get a good understanding of what I am doing prior to doing anything. I know there is an argument to "get your hands dirty" and find out but for now I want to tread carefully and not break anything or waste money on unnecessary software.

Hope you dont mind the questions I am very interested by what people have to say on this forum.

kind regards :)

[Neale]

I don't have anything like the experience of some of the contributors to this forum, but FWIW...

I use Vectric VCarve for most of what I do, and like it a lot. It's really easy to use once you have got used to it, which doesn't take long, and it is really good for things like lettering. I've been cutting some small printing blocks for my wife this evening, and VCarve does a good job of squaring out corners rather than leaving them at cutter diameter. It has some simple CAD (as long as you can do what you want with circles, lines, and rectangles) which is also quite useful for the odd quickie. I'm sure that there are some features that it doesn't have as it all seems deceptively simple to use, and powerful tools usually seem to have a really steep and long learning curve, but if it does what you need... If I were making flat plates with lettering and relatively straightforward holes in them, then VCarve would probably do the job pretty well. It ain't cheap, of course. There are probably other toolpath generators that would do all the things that VCarve does, but I'm not sure what they are - I have played with a couple of freeware tools (limited and fiddly to use) and took a look at Cambam, but plumped for VCarve in the end.
I get the feeling that I am in the minority on this forum because I'm a LinuxCNC user. Whenever machine control software is mentioned, it's almost always Mach3. I originally chose LinuxCNC because I was trying to build to a budget without committing too much money until I got a feel for this whole CNC thing. In the event, that's not what happened but I did use LinuxCNC because it was free and I didn't need another Windows machine/licence - it runs happily on an old PC that I had spare. Again, FWIW, it does everything I need, at least at the moment. Somewhat surprisingly, what it doesn't seem to have that Mach3 does have is a large amount of add-ons easily available (although at a cost in most cases, I think). I had rather naively expected that since LinuxCNC was more-or-less public domain, there would be a lot of extras available but that doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place! For example, I have been thinking about a touch probe for tool height setting, and it looks as if that is quite possible to incorporate but needs a bit of fiddling about to do. With Mach3, you just buy something that someone else has already written and is well-proven.
As far as CAD is concerned, you use whatever happens to suit you, I think. Sometimes I use TurboCAD (because I've been doing odd drawings in that for years), more often these days I use Rhino which is a pretty fearsome but very powerful 3D drawing tool, but for the stencils I cut the other day in 6mm ply, I was given scanned images in jpeg format and I ended up using Adobe Illustrator to turn those into vector format. Anything will do, as long as it gives an output format that your CAM package can accept. Most things seem to be happy with dxf, for example.
My machine is probably about as bendy as they come and still be usable, so if I can cut hardwoods, birch ply, and so on I'm sure that you will be OK for what you are planning to do with Traffolyte. Good luck!

[futura]

As Jazz has said, Alphacam is a CAD/CAM program, you can design and output the code via the post processor, but does not control the machine. G.

In terms of CAD or CAM I assume based on price this software is pretty good in terms of features?

[futura]

Anything will do, as long as it gives an output format that your CAM package can accept. Most things seem to be happy with dxf, for example.
My machine is probably about as bendy as they come and still be usable, so if I can cut hardwoods, birch ply, and so on I'm sure that you will be OK for what you are planning to do with Traffolyte. Good luck!

Just by asking a few questions here I have an awful lot clarified.

Its very interesting to hear about your experience with linuxCNC / EMC. I see it runs on the LTS version of Ubuntu. I have always liked Ubuntu OS a lot. When ever I have experimented with Linux I have always found that to be one of the more easier and forgiving OSes in terms of drivers and user friendlyness.

Open source software in terms of machining I can see as being very useful particularly if you have the ability to code and thus modify to your own requirements.

My only hesitation about going down the Linux / EMC road is I already have a bit of a project on my hands in terms of this Chinese Router ie no manual, no support and a hotch potch of potantial control boards / steppers etc. From my experience of Linux experiments it has always resulted in issues with drivers, limited documentation etc. I guess this is inevitable as the motives behind coding linux projects are not always customer / consumer driven.

However that said how did you get on with Linux/CNC and getting it talking to your machine? Was it fairly painless or a pain in the backside?

Maybe like with general OS installation if you choose an older machine with average and non complex kit / intel cpu / intel chipset and standard ports etc maybe no issues?

I assume there must also be CAD and CAM linux projects? Does these come on the Linux CNC Distro or not?

Cheers for your feedback once again great info :) TY.

[Clive S]

You can find Linuxcnc here:- Installing LinuxCNC (http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download/21-installing-emc2) Just run the install cd and everything is done, there is a wizard for the initial setup of the machine etc with a simple interface for driving the machine. Also a touch off probe is simple to setup.


Re CAM I am not aware of any that will run on Linux. ..Clive

PS It would be good if Dean's (Jazzcnc) post #96 could be made as a sticky because that question is asked time and time again on the forum. :beer:

[Neale]

LinuxCNC was a doddle to get going. Stuck a CD in the front of the machine and hit "Go". Ubuntu recognises all the standard hardware (especially the parallel port) and it just works. The only configuration effort was the same as any machine control setup with any machine - you need to specify which pins on the parallel port do what on the machine (X dir and step, Y dir and step, etc), and tell the software things like how many steps per mm it needs, max speed and acceleration, and so on. My system is Intel but my son has just bought a replacement motherboard for his setup which uses an AMD chip and has no parallel port, so he added a PCI parallel port adaptor. That needed a tiny bit of tweaking in Ubuntu to tell it about the board and the port address, but that's working fine as well. If you have Mach3 already, then I see no reason to change to LinuxCNC and my comments are really for anyone reading this who is starting with a blank sheet. I'm not necessarily recommending LinuxCNC, but it works for me.
I tried some freeware CAM packages (DXF2GCODE for 2D and PyCAM for 3D - I used them on Windows but I know that PyCAM does run on Linux) and they work, up to a point, but they were much harder work than VCarve. On the CAD side, I'm not sure if people use things like Sketchup for more than just engineering-style sketching, but I haven't played with that kind of thing.
Clive - do you have a pointer to the touch probe stuff for LinuxCNC? Google didn't come up with anything obvious when I looked recently.

[Clive S]

Neale Does this help:- For Science » LinuxCnc – Touch plate – Part 1 (http://forscience.nl/?p=144) I started with Linuxcnc and still use it for my mill but I had to change to Mach3 for the router with it having 2 screws on X and homing with two screws is not easy in Linux unless the screws are connected with one motor and hence one belt. I it wasn't for this I would have kept with Linux. When I get some time I will have a go and see if I can sort it out. There are a few people on here that do use Linux and are happy with it. Clive

[JAZZCNC]

Just out of interest what software would you recommend?

Oh if only I had a pound for every time I've been asked this.. . . Lol . . . . Honest answer is I can't tell you.? Every person has different needs and there is no one "Best" software.
If your into wood then Vectric software or Delcam's Artcam express are good ones to look at. If your into Metal then they are limiting so you'll need software more focused on metal and cutting stratergies more suited to that type of work. Dolphin CAM, BobCad/CAM, Solid Cam, etc
Then you have CAM more suited to 3D like Deskproto, Meshcam etc.

I'll explain CAM a bit more and hopefully you'll see why there's no "best" software or one does all.!
When working in CAM and defining the toolpaths for your part you are working with Cutting strategies. CAM software provides cutting Strategies for each process to define the complete part. So Holes would use Drilling Strategies and within this strategie you would have options ie: peck drill, straight plunge etc you would also set other parameters here like drill size and feedrate etc.
Some common strategies are, profiling, Pocketing, Surfacing, V-carving, Engraving etc. These are mostly 2D strategies but there are also 3D which take you into other areas I won't get into now has it would take all night.
Better software gives you more Strategies along with more parameters within them which enable you to get the exact results your looking for. This is esp true when it comes to 3D type work.

Now Wood working bennifits from specific strategies designed for that type of work, so they will have features like Nesting, or abilty to add Tab's to hold work when cutting thru. Where as Milling metal doesn't usually involve more than one part at a time so these would be mostly unused so waste of money but as other requirements like how it enters material that equally would be wasted in wood usage.

So bottom line is while the cheaper software may look ok they can be limited in the options and parameters they provide. This is why you need to look at the type of work your going to do.
If basic stuff like drilling and 2D profiles, pockets etc in softer materials along with V-carving, engraving etc then most of the cheaper end software designed for wood use will fill the purpose. If on the other hand your looking at 3D work then you may want to spend more money and get package that offers more cutting strategies.

It's for these reasons No package is best or can provide everything for every situation other wise the cost would be massive.

My suggestion is you stick with something that is cheap or free until you know better what your cutting and what's required to do it, then splash out on better software when you have some experience. CamBam is a good all round software that is free or cheap.





For CAD design I want to make traffolyte front panels for my synthesizer modules I design. I was thinking maybe Signlab? but also I have Corel Draw and now I am starting to realise the CAD side of things doesnt need to be so much machine orientated am i right in saying for CAD you can almost use anything you like or get on with?

Mostly yes but the CAM software will dictate this to some degree but most accept common format's like DXF for 2D files and STL for 3D. Coral draw is a good one as it's Vector based which is a common format for most 2D CAM packages.


For CAM I am looking for something that is not over complex but can hopefully be smart enough to assist with not just engraving the synth panels but also cutting the holes for the potentiometers and finally cutting the panel. I have looked at a demo of vcarve.
Again down to the cutting strategies provided but just about all CAM packages provide pocketing or profiling strategies so this won't be a problem.


For control software I think for now I will stick with Mach 3 but I am also all ears in terms of other options such as LinuxCNC or KKam etc.

Stick with Mach3 it's the best for new users, loads of support from other users and simple when setup.


I have a feeling I may hit brick limits in terms of actual cutting with the router ie it will engrave the traffolye happily but I am unsure of how it will perform in terms of actually cutting holes or cutting out the plate.

Don't stress over it and just feel your way thru the work, the machine will soon let you know if it's not happy and from here you'll find the best cutting conditions to suit your machine and material. Each machine is slightly different and what works on one doesn't mean it will work on another. This is also true of materials, I've cut aluminium that is supposedly same grade but from different sources and it needs working at differant feeds speeds etc for best results. This is what I mean by tweaking on the Fly in control software while cutting.!




Hope you dont mind the questions I am very interested by what people have to say on this forum.

Nope that's why I'm here, to give back or pass-on what was given freely to me.!!

[futura]

Once again thank you very much for everyones feedback and time.

The linux project sounds fairly well refined. It is very interesting to hear about your experiences on that. As recommended I will stick with Mach 3 for now and leave that as spare weekend project sometime ;)

Im starting to understand now with the software choice I guess it will be a case of experimenting and seeing in terms of CAD what software I get on with. So far Smartdraw and Corel Draw I have found really easy to use. I also like Logo Designer. They all have a very similiar user interface.

For CAM im still unsure about this so I think I will keep looking at the vcarve demos and maybe test that. I have also noted the suggestion on CAM BAM. maybe this weekend i will also look at a few other options. Kkam Artcam Mastercam etc.

So to keep on topic here are some pics of my Opened UP stepper control box and also some pics of the machine.

11830
3020 Router/Engraver

11831
3020 Router/Engraver Rear

11832
Spindle Motor

11833
Sketchey Motor Connection LEads

11834
Stepper Controller Front

11835
Stepper Controller Rear

11836
YOOCNCPW3618 & YOOCNC NT65-3X

11837
YOOCNCPW3618

11838
YOOCNC NT65-3X

11839
My end goal and target with my home CNC project :)



In terms of tool when my traffolyte plate arrives I assume they all have different roles?

My guess would be the spear looking shapes are used for engraving?

The paddle looking shape is more for engraving / cutting?

And the drill clearly just drills holes of that diameter?


I am also wondering what peoples thoughts are about the Spindle Motor MOD making it PWM control via Mach3 as opposed to the switch and speed control pot on the control box?

I can see advantages and disadvantages for both options.

Looking at the board there sure is a free pin labelled PWM thats on the board with the 555 timer on it.

The boards I have are:

YOOCNC PW3618
YOOCNC NT65-3X

The transformer I have is Torroidial 220V Primary
Secondary 0-18V
Secondary 0-36V

Semiconductor Component list as follows (well most of em lol) :

PW3618

4N25
EL817C328
NE555

NT65-3X

TB6560AHQ
EL817330
EL1373201501-50 1304AL
SS14


If required I can also knock up a layout in Corel just so you can see what IC goes where.

There are also x2 74HC SMD components but I cannot find my magnifying glass right now to see the exact number maybe its a 14 but not 100% atm.


Finally I did check the earthing and yes as warned its pretty sketchey. The main chassis is earthed but half the motor out pins the metal shield is not earthed and also the fan covers are not earthed.

I assume most of thes eissues are caused by powder coating the box then fitting the stuff without exposing the metal.

I guess another reason why this is kit is cheap.

However, so far for what I paid from what I can see it seems quite good value.

However.. theory and practicality can be very different..

I should have more results this weekend :)

[Gregor]

Hi All
A quick update on what i have been using my cnc machine for. I have Been using Sketchup and Cambam and I am starting to get the hang off it, The Machine has been working well although I haven't been pushing it to hard and I think if I was buying one off these again i would go for one with a faster spindle.I have took the good advice off the member's off this forum and I have not change the cables and don't intend to change until they go faulty.Here is the machine cutting Phenolic board.



http://youtu.be/lMUe0IeZIR4

[Pointy]

I have took the good advice off the member's off this forum and I have not change the cables and don't intend to change until they go faulty.

Very wise.

I have just rewired my 3020 and it was a real pain to do.

Regards,

Les

[Gregor]

Hi All
Well its been 6 months since I received the 3040 cnc machine and it has been running between 7 and 10 hours a week cutting mostly hard woods and I did cut one aluminium bracket at very slow speed which turned out pretty good but I will not be cutting anymore aluminium with it as I think the machine would not last to long.I haven't had any faults with the machine and it seems to be running ok ,the cable seems to be ok and so do the bearings, as most people have said if you don't push it hard it should be ok . I have seen some horror stories about these machines but maybe I got lucky or maybe they are pushing there machines to hard. I like to thank everybody for there advice and help and I hope to build a slightly bigger machine which will be able to cut aluminium in the near future probably something like 6040 size But will be late August before I will be able to start it.
Thanks

[gorbo]

I brought a Chinese machine 2 years ago and I have had no problems with it, even the Driver board TB6560 has been faultless, I did put 3 fans on the driver from day one so that may well of helped,
I cut hardwoods to.
The low cost of the machine has enabled me to get on the CNC ladder and I have learned enough to build another from scratch for a friend

[NB70]

Nice pickups Gregor! Have you got a CNC coil winder too?
I used my cnc router & 3 hall sensors to scan a pickup's magnetic field. The one and only benefit of having a rubbish MDF machine is that it does not distort the magnetic field!
12607
Link to project (http://www.guitar-list.com/magnetic-field-scans-guitar-pickup)

[Gregor]

Hi NB70
No I don't use the cnc to wind pickups I have made a pickup winder so I can scatter wind them it takes about 6mins to wind them at about 1200 rpm

[jimbo_cnc]

Well its been 6 months since I received the 3040 cnc machine and it has been running between 7 and 10 hours a week cutting mostly hard woods and I did cut one aluminium bracke.....s

Hi Gregor, what speed/depth of cut have you been using for the phenolic board? Have you tried cutting nylon or delrin?

I'm trying to work out if one of these chinese machines will make the plastic parts I want.

What size tool would I use for bulk material removal?

[Gregor]

Hi jimbowley
my spindle on my machine only goes up to 8000, the cut depth is 0.8mm and it cuts the phenolic board pretty good, I did cut some plastic with it and it melted the plastic but I found if a used a little bit of wd40 it was fine I haven't used it on delrin. The end mill I mostly use is 1.5mm but have used 3mm for removing material. I am sure other members will give you better advice on what to try as I am really only a beginner.

[JAZZCNC]

What size tool would I use for bulk material removal?

The largest you can fit in the spindle.! . . . . . . With cutting plastic like Gregor mentions heat will be the problem but this is just a function of chip load and finding the best setup that suits machine/material/cutter unfortunatly it's not an exact science and very M/M/C dependant. Often when people are melting they are cutting to shallow or too slow and with RPM too high or some combination of all three.
If you use the correct type of cutter with a decent spindle and 10-12mm cutter then there's no reason why you shouldn't rough out 16mm nylon in 3 passes. One problem with nylon is that it can wrap around the tool so having air blowing helps clear this and also gives a slightly better finish. Taking deeper cuts makes bigger chips and this also helps but means going slower so soem experimenting is needed to find best balance.