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dangerousdave
09-01-2014, 10:37 PM
Hi guys. Im here looking for a bit of advice really. Im aiming to build a router with a 8x4 machine bed not wanting to spend thousands but not expecting eveything for 200 quid.

So im buying bits every payday and will design a gantry router around the motors and rack and pinions I buy so this month I wanna buy the step driver and came across a few cheap options I found 2 types I found a breakout board and drivers system or a combined unit that I quiet like the look of

dangerousdave
09-01-2014, 10:50 PM
High Integrated 4Axis Professional TB6600HG CNC Router Lathe Stepping Driver Set | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Integrated-4Axis-Professional-TB6600HG-CNC-Router-Lathe-Stepping-Driver-Set-/181279892755?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2a351fa513)

Just popped on ebay and this tb6600 is the one id like to know about. Has anyone used it? Does it do what it says on the tin? If i remember correctly I am hoping to use nema 23 motors 566oz 4nm 4a the specs say it will work so just hoping for someone to tell me its not to good to be true

irving2008
09-01-2014, 11:31 PM
don't buy motors or electronics until after you have a near final design, or better still, after you've completed the mechanicals. and 'all-in-one' are often a false economy, and probably won't be up to the needs of an 8 x 4 machine anyway..

dangerousdave
09-01-2014, 11:41 PM
Thankyou for your input. Do you have a suggestion of a good well priced 4axis breakout board and power supplies compatable with a handle control wheel and upto 5 amp per phase

dangerousdave
09-01-2014, 11:42 PM
High Integrated 4Axis Professional TB6600HG CNC Router Lathe Stepping Driver Set | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Integrated-4Axis-Professional-TB6600HG-CNC-Router-Lathe-Stepping-Driver-Set-/181279892755?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2a351fa513)


that is the kit I was looking at originally

JAZZCNC
10-01-2014, 01:08 AM
High Integrated 4Axis Professional TB6600HG CNC Router Lathe Stepping Driver Set | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Integrated-4Axis-Professional-TB6600HG-CNC-Router-Lathe-Stepping-Driver-Set-/181279892755?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2a351fa513)


that is the kit I was looking at originally

Dave Don't buy anything yet because you'll be making the classic mistake often made by new people and will blow money big time.!!

The fact you have looked at this kit tells us that you haven't done any home work really because if you had you'd know these are complete pile of Crap and absolutley no use for the machine your thinking to build.

Irvings Advise is sound advise but from the looks of it you really need to go away and study the forum and build logs because to build a large format Cnc machine requires you have a sound understanding of how to go about it in every department.
The electronics are KEY to a good machine and for a machine thats running R&P even more important you get it correct because it's very inefficient compared to ballscrew machines so Motor and drive selection is critical.

Honestly your approach of buying each month is not a good one at all. You'll be much better off putting the money in the bank and swatting up on whats needed then start with the frame and work up from there buying electrics and stuff just before required.
This way you'll be much more informed of what's actually needed and you'll save a load of money on wrong components.

dangerousdave
10-01-2014, 01:56 AM
Money in the bank will be spent up I would need to purchase bits monthly to do it. I would go down the ball screw route if it were possible.. or necessary I have searched through other build threads and they are not greatly detailed nor do I want to spend a grand on electrics I would have liked to got electrics all sorted for 2-300 quid including motors and psu. What would you recomend for me? I dont need anything mega quick but would like repeatability and fairly decent accuracy

cheers for your input its all greatly appreciated

irving2008
10-01-2014, 08:34 AM
Money in the bank will be spent up I would need to purchase bits monthly to do it. I would go down the ball screw route if it were possible.. or necessary I have searched through other build threads and they are not greatly detailed nor do I want to spend a grand on electrics I would have liked to got electrics all sorted for 2-300 quid including motors and psu. What would you recomend for me? I dont need anything mega quick but would like repeatability and fairly decent accuracy

cheers for your input its all greatly appreciated

Dave,

It's not like me to be blunt (I usually leave that to Jazz or JohnS lol) but, with all respect, if you don't have the willpower and focus to put the money aside in a separate account then you're unlikely to have the determination and focus to ever finish a project of this scale; an 8 x 4 machine is not a light undertaking, ask those few who have done it successfully.

Your question about motors and PSU re repeatability/accuracy suggests you have a huge learning curve to go through to understand the basics before you're ready to purchase anything.

The build logs have a wealth of detail but they need to be used as part of a learning process; they are not, and never can be, a step-by-step hand-holding guide. No two machines are the same, especially at that size.

Also consider this: this is a year-long project, if you buy the electronics now they will be out of warranty by the time you come to use them so you'd better budget for replacing them because if you buy that cheap crap you're almost guaranteed to need to do so. So save the money now and buy the right stuff when you need it.

The members on this site have a huge amount of expertise; you are well advised to listen to them if you don't want to throw money away.

Off-topic, but relevant; for putting money aside, if you're in the UK, I suggest premium bonds as a saving vehicle; ok you get no interest but it's sufficient hassle to get the money out to keep it safe and you might win something!

dangerousdave
10-01-2014, 09:00 AM
I really dont think this is a huge project. Im by trade a qualified engineer albiet a cnc turner thats never worked with wood but cant be that hard :p.. but thats why im asking about the electronics side of this. The router bed is for me the easier bit. People keep saying them boards are crap but have offered no alternative? I know there cheap crap thats why im here to get opinions and learn more about what others are using. Im sure not everyone is using expensive gekodrives? Surely someone uses some alternative? As far as a time scale goes maybe 6 months would be a realistic one.

Clive S
10-01-2014, 10:10 AM
Dave. I don't normally respond to new builds as I am a newboy myself that has been guided through the maze of do's and don'ts of building and buying different parts for the machine and now after a year of hard work I have succeeded in building a router 1600x1000 that I am happy with. I have only been able to achieve this without wasting a lot of money and time with the help of Dean (Jazcnc) and Jonathan form this forum. They have given there time freely you cannot buy that sort of experience.

Why don't you start with a drawing in something like Sketchup (its free) and post it on here and then the good people will evaluate it and give you good honest feedback as you develop it into a working drawing and then a machine.

As you are doing this they will advise on the type of motors, drives and rails etc that will work with your setup.

It would also help others if you said what you would like to cut and to what tolerances. Please take this with the spirit it is intended and good luck with the build. ..Clive

dangerousdave
10-01-2014, 12:24 PM
Hi Clive thanks for your responce. In terms of design I have dfx files for a mechmate but am reluctant to go down that path I want to build something simlar using welded steel box section

I only really want to cut mdf and ply sheets if the machine is capable I may make a few bits for my rc car out of alloy but thats not important as I dont need to if I cant

As for tolerance id like repeatability withing 0.5mm and accuracy of the same over a meter span. Its not overly imporant over the distance of the table

do you think im beong unrealistic?

GEOFFREY
10-01-2014, 12:49 PM
Hi. if you follow the advice from some of our more experienced members, you will find it difficult to build anything that ever could be as inaccurate as your current requirements!!! In practice I feel sure that when you have a machine that performs really well, you will end up doing taking on work that would benefit from greater precision. PLEASE, listen to what Irving, the "3 J's and others tell you and you will end up with a machine that performs well and will save you some of your hard earned cash. Good luck with your project. G.

m_c
10-01-2014, 02:28 PM
I'll answer the why are those controllers crap?
They use a very common, but failure prone stepper driver chip, especially if you try pushing them anywhere near thier limits. Which given the size of machine you're planning on building, you would have to do to get even moderate performance.
Individual leadshine drives (be that older M452s? or the newer digital drives) will allow for far more powerful motors, and far better performance. These cheap combined controllers/drives seem like a bargain, but when one of the axis goes pop, which they are renowned for, unless you're good with a soldering iron, the whole lot is junk. And you'll soon regret the purchase when watching your machine crawl doing rapids, as the drives just aren't capable of reliably moving it any quicker.

Jonathan
10-01-2014, 03:39 PM
People keep saying them boards are crap but have offered no alternative? I know there cheap crap thats why im here to get opinions and learn more about what others are using.

I bet you can't find a finished build log on this forum which doesn't show/tell which drivers they used.

Your question is like asking someone 'what engine should I buy for a 2.5m long van?' Nobody is going to tell you to get a specific engine because we don't know anywhere near enough about the van. Granted, a lot of people use the same drivers and similar motors, so we could mention one of those - but aside from being an argumentum ad populum, that would be irresponsible since you'll very likely end up with a poorly matched system. Don't think that just wanting to cut MDF and plywood makes things easier, as it's actually optimal to use the highest feedrates for cutting those materials.

Pick a few of the build logs from this forum at random and read them:
Gantry/Router Build Logs (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gantry-router-build-logs/)
Also read some for smaller machines so you can see the important differences you must consider for your relatively large machine.

Edited to add:
What are you prepared to pay for the whole system? As a rough guess I'd say minimum £2k to make something good enough, but good enough is the enemy of the best...

george uk
10-01-2014, 04:38 PM
Hi

am a newby so can only offer an opinion, i am building a large machine like you, but a bit more ridged for stone. Like you, i first though get the motors, but, as i was told, WRONG WAY ROUND.

I would suggest



1. Design/Build your frame then gantry ( or pick one of the designs on here, most of them are good enough for what you want to do )

Think about rail sizes, and gantry weight in the design stage

2. Then ask on here about motors/servoes and cards. I was given some very good advice in relation to driver boards on my thread onb here. have a look atg them.

As a general ball park, i think your est of motors/driver and card should be between 500 and 700, depending on what you want to end up with.

The next part being quite important if you want to keep cost down and build easyer.

Do you actualy need a machine that big, As maybe a 4 foot by 4 foot, is cheeper, but a lot easyer to build. When you go bigger, you start running into engineering problems, all are get roundable, but none easy or cheep.

re the Chinees cards you link to

Ther eis an upgraded version of the driver chips, ( V3 ) that seems to get round the problem.

If you do get one of these NEVER GET ONE WITH THE STEPPER DRIVER ON BOARD, always seporate drivers. secondly. If you read up on here, you will realise that a lot of the power packs, sold with these kits, are to low power for heavy use of the motors,

So, for a cheaper 4ft by 4ft, thats not going to be cutting solid material all day, maybe, ther are worth a punt, but, the support on these chiness cards is none exsitant, i know that from experience. and the all in one cards ( with settper drivers on boards ) are a nightmare to use/setup and maintain.

Just my opinion and remember am a newby ( quite good at math and engineering though )

JAZZCNC
10-01-2014, 05:08 PM
I really dont think this is a huge project.

Mistake No1 Assumption is the Mother of all Fuck UP's


Im by trade a qualified engineer albiet a cnc turner thats never worked with wood but cant be that hard :p..
Means Nothing I've helped every type of person with CNC from Engineers to Doctors and I can tell you the ones who build the fastest and have the least hassle are usually the ones who wear the Suits.!!. . . . .Because they Admit they know nothing and Listen then Act.!!. . . . . Those that waste money or fail do it the other way around.!!


but thats why im asking about the electronics side of this. The router bed is for me the easier bit. People keep saying them boards are crap but have offered no alternative? I know there cheap crap thats why im here to get opinions and learn more about what others are using. Im sure not everyone is using expensive gekodrives? Surely someone uses some alternative? As far as a time scale goes maybe 6 months would be a realistic one.

Sorry Dave but you didn't ask advice on what to use you asked about that specific board and got a reply, it's not our fault if it's not what you wanted to hear.

Regards what to use then Jonathan Van engine example is correct but it's worse than that. . . . . What your actually saying is your planning to use R&P with possibly 4Nm motors for cutting wood.!! Fair enough you'd think.??

But back to the Van, What your actually saying is you'd like to know what MAKE of electronics to run 4ltr engine on to get 8000MPH but without telling us the MAKE of the vehicle, WEIGHT of the vehicle or what FUEL your planning on using what size WHEELS and how many GEARS it will have.???

MAKE = Materials to be constructed from.
WEIGHT = Mass to move IE gantry etc
FUEL = Voltage running motors at.
WHEELS = Pinion Size
GEARS = Ratios

Now you can't give us this information because you don't know it your self because you haven't designed or planned the machine. So therefore we can't possibly tell you what to buy.

I could offer suggestions now but that would be wrong at this stage and exactly why I offered the advise I did when I did.
If you choose not to follow any of our advise then more fool you and I'll wish you good luck. . . . But I and many others on here don't suffer Fools lightly, We will suffer Insults and even the Odd Idiot no problem but Fools will get very little response back and absolutely NONE from ME. . . . . . DONT BE A FOOL . . . and take the advise in good faith.!!

george uk
10-01-2014, 06:17 PM
Hi Dave


MAKE = Materials to be constructed from.
WEIGHT = Mass to move IE gantry etc
FUEL = Voltage running motors at.
WHEELS = Pinion Size
GEARS = Ratios

Just to give you a heads up

WEIGHT = Mass to move IE gantry ==== Frame steal 80mm by 4mm or 100mm by 4mm or 5mm. == Gantry, either steal or ally. Its quite easy to calculate the weights, it will be the gantry weight thats important, not the frame

FUEL = Voltage ==== The gantry weight will tell you what motors and drivers are required ( most of the time nema 23/4 sometimes geared. ). ==== also, your power pack ratings are important,

WHEELS = Pinion Size ( or ballscrews, ) Again, your gantry weight/style will help you decide this, 16mm or 20mm if ballscrews i suggest ( i dont know enouigh about R&P ), same with rails

GEARS = Ratios ===== This is about the speed and accuracy that you want from the motors, its a curve, higher speed, less accuracy.

Most supplyers of metals give the the weight per meter, and you might even fine something suitable for the frame ( with adjustments ) at the scrap yard if your trying to save a few £.

My opinion if your going the cheep route.

There is no cheap route with motors and drivers, you will just need what you need, and its machine specific

Spindle - ebay 2.2kw, water cooled with VDF around £ 250, Aldi ( or other cheep place ) cheap £ 30 dremile type. You get what you pay for. The cheap one will not last long on even modrate use, but it will cut/mill thin stuff ( slowly ) ( just add a cooling fan ), If you got the mounting plate right on the Z, you could even use a cheep router. You might try with the cheap one, to convince yourself you need to pay for the more expencive one, and £ 30 is not a big loss,

Software -- for what you want to do, Mach3/4 would be good ( £ 120 ), there are cheaper alternatives, some free, but unless you have reasonable programming skills, and a good understanding math, you wont beat mach for the support for newbies. In all honestly, with mach, the £ 120 is worth it just for the support,

I hope with what i have put above you have an idea at what parts you can go cheeper on and what parts you can not. If i was you, i would give myself a scrapheap challange, and go looking for something you can use for the frame, your luck might be in. and what you save on that, put into the electronics.

JAZZCNC
10-01-2014, 07:06 PM
FUEL = Voltage ==== The gantry weight will tell you what motors and drivers are required ( most of the time nema 23/4 sometimes geared. ). ==== also, your power pack ratings are important,

[COLOR=#333333]WHEELS = Pinion Size ( or ballscrews, ) Again, your gantry weight/style will help you decide this, 16mm or 20mm if ballscrews i suggest ( i dont know enouigh about R&P ), same with rails

No disrespect meant George but what your doing is dangerous and quite missleading to new users.? . . . . I'm tempted to say Blind leading the blind but I know you have done lots of reading upto now but still you need to be careful what you post to new users because you can send them in wrong direction quite easily, all done with good intentions I know but still misleading and wrong.

For instance you Say Mostly Nema23 and sometimes geared.!! . . . . Actually Often for a 8x4 machine using Rack n pinion then Nema 34's are prefered for there higher torque and 99.9% of the time you'll always have a gear ration of at least 2:1

Also suggesting 16mm ballscrews for a machine this length is totally wrong unless very specific things are done, like using a Rotating ballnut. I won't use 16mm screws much over 1500mm and wouldn't dream of using a 16mm or 20mm rotating screw at nearly 3000mm.

Not picking on you here and know your only trying to help but much better advise rather than trying be specific, unless you have first hand experience is to suggest Nothing and tell them to go look around and learn. Then ask questions that are more informed and specific to there needs.

george uk
10-01-2014, 08:17 PM
hi jazz

I was suggesting options for 4ft by 4ft table, up to a full size table, and just trying to give him a general idea. . If you read my post, i had suggested that, i also said i did not know enough about R&P.

If price was not an issue from him, i would say 25mm rails and screws and servoes, but he is clearly looking for cheaper options, and it is that i offered advice on, but he clearly want to have a crack at this on the cheap. and it is doable, i was just trying to help him understand, that he can not go cheap on motors and drivers. I do have some experience with that type card

ther are many wrong approaches to machine building, but there are also a few right ways. not just one. If it was like that, you would just point him to this thread, and say build that

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gantry-router-build-logs/6484-sufficiently-strong-machine.html

Well engineered, well built, and he lists what he would change

But he is clearly looking for cheap options, and wants to hobby build. and remember were the hobby built cnc machine started, For me, a graph plotter with a drill strapped to it, 1989/90 machine running it was amstrad 1512, and we had to write the actual code that run it, My current main hobby ( robotics/electronics ) and previous hobbies ( UAVs and RC stuff, kart racing ) all work on very fine tolerances, am used to having to get things a lot more refined than is needed for cnc design, granted, on a smaller scale. I do clearly mark any post that i have given advise on thought that i am a newbie,

EddyCurrent
10-01-2014, 09:11 PM
nor do I want to spend a grand on electrics I would have liked to got electrics all sorted for 2-300 quid including motors and psu. What would you recomend for me?

A rethink !


Im by trade a qualified engineer albiet a cnc turner thats never worked with wood but cant be that hard

I've found that the softer the material the harder to get good tolerence. You just have to compare hand cutting dovetails in hardwood and softwood to see that hardwood is much easier.

JAZZCNC
11-01-2014, 01:50 AM
hi jazz

I was suggesting options for 4ft by 4ft table, up to a full size table, and just trying to give him a general idea. . If you read my post, i had suggested that, i also said i did not know enough about R&P.

Exactly so best not to suggest anything.!! . . . There's a saying . . "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt" . . . . . Not 100% relavent or possibly fair but I do like it. .Lol


If price was not an issue from him, i would say 25mm rails and screws and servoes

And again you'd be wrong because servo's are not always better, The rails most likely over sized and screws wrong selection for this size machine without special considerations.


ther are many wrong approaches to machine building, but there are also a few right ways. not just one. If it was like that, you would just point him to this thread, and say build that

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gantry-router-build-logs/6484-sufficiently-strong-machine.html

Well engineered, well built, and he lists what he would change

Again that would be wrong because it's a completely differant machine which would be inpracticle at this size required and totaly over engineered for cutting wood.

So again please I'm not picking on you just trying to show that throwing advice around without considering all the variables and relevancys can be disatrous for a new person.!! . . . . . . . I know this from helping many that have unwittingly fallen foul of such good intentions.!!

george uk
11-01-2014, 01:48 PM
hi Jazz


http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by george uk http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/motor-drivers-controllers/6990-budget-diy-cnc-controller-question-post53189.html#post53189)hi jazz

I was suggesting options for 4ft by 4ft table, up to a full size table, and just trying to give him a general idea. . If you read my post, i had suggested that, i also said i did not know enough about R&P.



Exactly so best not to suggest anything.!! . . . There's a saying . . "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt" . . . . . Not 100% relavent or possibly fair but I do like it. .Lol

Honestly mate, with that attitude, we never would have walked out of the cave. Jazz i do respect your advice and have read through loads of your posts and advice to other people and assimilated lots into my own design, but, you can not consider people fools becuase you consider them wrong, I think you have just misread what i have been trying to explain to the bloke. They do say " fools rush in "

Dangerous Dave - am trying to suggest this to you

1. You can not go cheap on the motors and electrics, Decide on a frame size, gantry style, then let that choose for you
2. Machines above 4f are a lot harder, whereas, the machine i pointed to, and suggested, Is probley a good all round starting point. there art a few things you could make cheeper, like the bed, single baerings. You could even try find the bed at the scrappy, and mount and true the top like He shows in his thread.



http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by george uk http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/motor-drivers-controllers/6990-budget-diy-cnc-controller-question-post53189.html#post53189)
If price was not an issue from him, i would say 25mm rails and screws and servoes



And again you'd be wrong because servo's are not always better, The rails most likely over sized and screws wrong selection for this size machine without special considerations.

Again, you dont seem to have read the post, i said that because you was assuming on the previous post that i had ment the smaller screws and motors for a full size machine, and i was trying to emphasise that his main consideration is costs, Also, if a persons not able to engineer the machine fully, then upping the rail sizes and screw, is one way to get over that.


"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt""Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt"

Barnes Wallace, Brunel , mary bell, Copernicus, Galileo, Bor, --- a long line of people that was considered fools,

JAZZCNC
11-01-2014, 02:36 PM
Honestly mate, with that attitude, we never would have walked out of the cave. Jazz i do respect your advice and have read through loads of your posts and advice to other people and assimilated lots into my own design, but, you can not consider people fools becuase you consider them wrong, I think you have just misread what i have been trying to explain to the bloke. They do say " fools rush in "

The "Fools" quote was a Joke which i made clear. I DON'T Consider you a FOOL but I DO 100% Know your WRONG and I'm the one often holding the hand out to help those that have took Duffy info all be it given in good faith and with no harm ment, But still wrong and often costly and some times dangerous.
Information and help like what's below is great Advise and perfectly fine but you can't be specific and advise motors,rails etc with no information to go on like in this case.


Dangerous Dave - am trying to suggest this to you

1. You can not go cheap on the motors and electrics, Decide on a frame size, gantry style, then let that choose for you
2. Machines above 4f are a lot harder, whereas, the machine i pointed to, and suggested, Is probley a good all round starting point. there art a few things you could make cheeper, like the bed, single baerings. You could even try find the bed at the scrappy, and mount and true the top like He shows in his thread.




Again, you dont seem to have read the post, i said that because you was assuming on the previous post that i had ment the smaller screws and motors for a full size machine, and i was trying to emphasise that his main consideration is costs, Also, if a persons not able to engineer the machine fully, then upping the rail sizes and screw, is one way to get over that.

This is exactly my point.!! . . . . No I didn't pick this up and neither will many others because you wasn't clear enough and neither did I see any mention of a 4x4 machine before you quoted specifics.!!. . . . . . All this Un-specific Info is confusing and misleading to new users.
Even now your comments about compensating with larger rails and screws for lack of Engineering is just WRONG ADVISE and all this would lead to is a very Expensive under performing machine or worse failure.!!

I'm not saying this because it's an Opinion of mine, I say it from lots of experience dealing with folks who have mis-understood or not read enough etc. Which you could say "More fool them" but my point and why I jump on this sort of thing is because it does happen and it doesn't need to happen so if folks just held off or asked for more info before posting then others wouldn't fall foul so easily.

Again DON'T think you a fool and I appologise for it coming over that way.!!. . . .:beer:

george uk
11-01-2014, 03:13 PM
The "Fools" quote was a Joke which i made clear., ... again DON'T think you a fool and I appologise for it coming over that way.!!. . . .:beer:

I never took it that way, an i prefair people being direct, and i was being a bit cheeky in the reply,and i have just read back my own reply.

Barnes Wallace, Brunel , mary bell, Copernicus, Galileo, Bor, --- a long line of people that was considered fools,

Gosh, that makes me sound like i live so far up my own backside that i would need street lighting tro find my way out. :whistle:So no worries,

Lee Roberts
12-01-2014, 01:21 AM
Mistake No1 Assumption is the Mother of all Fuck UP's

A-Men to that !


Exactly so best not to suggest anything.!! . . . There's a saying . . "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt" . . . . . Not 100% relavent or possibly fair but I do like it. .Lol

Now I have to admit, that is a rule I do practise. :culpability:

However George, there is no certainty that a thread, post or even a question will get replied to, only probability! so actually I think you were correct to contribute what you could/did. This is a discussion forum after all.

:encouragement:

.Me

JAZZCNC
12-01-2014, 02:16 AM
A-Men to that !

Now I have to admit, that is a rule I do practise. :culpability:

Well you should keep practising then because from this below you need to.!!


However George, there is no certainty that a thread, post or even a question will get replied to, only probability! so actually I think you were correct to contribute what you could/did. This is a discussion forum after all.

How can you say it's ok to give INCORRECT specifics to a question with no details.? . . . So for discussion sake it's OK to miss-inform and nothing be said about it.??. . . . OR . . . is just the fact I've said it that makes it OK.????. . . . . . I FUCKING GIVE UP GOOD LUCK PEOPLE.!

magicniner
12-01-2014, 11:11 PM
Make your own enclosure and use a breakout board and individual axis drivers - buy a spare axis driver, test them all and when everything's working rotate your spare occasionally. That way you have a spare when an axis fails on Sunday morning ;-)
Building all the mechanics first is a given, you can get it all working without steppers and add the electrics afterwards.
Regards,
Nick

Lee Roberts
13-01-2014, 12:52 AM
To clarify my previous post here,

My comments addressed the act of contributing to a discussion, not the quality or the specifics of that contribution.

It would be fundamentally incorrect to suggest another member should not contribute to a discussion, on a discussion forum. Irrespective of whether or not one considers another member to be a fool, no one has that authority here.

I refer you to the Forum Guidelines (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/feedback-questions-problems/announcements.html):


What you should NOT do:
5. Discuss or link to objectionable and/or offensive topics. This is not permitted and includes but is not limited to: things of a violent nature, pornography, sexism, racism and/or other discriminatory subjects, this includes things considered to be as a “joke”.


The forum rules/guidelines are there for the benefit of everyone, covering specifics for a very good reason.

Also perfectly acceptable, is to make a directly challenging, specifics targeting contribution to a discussion and is encouraged where a member considers it necessary.

.Me

JAZZCNC
13-01-2014, 01:35 AM
It would be fundamentally incorrect to suggest another member should not contribute to a discussion, on a discussion forum. Irrespective of whether or not one considers another member to be a fool, no one has that authority here.

Yes Agreed but I didn't Call anybody a FOOL and Neither did I say anyone shouldn't Contribute. What I said and made clear was that posting Specifics to a new member without the specifics of what was required was misleading and the WRONG thing to do. This can be seen from my comment that some of what george said was helpful but to go into recommending specifics at this time was FOOLISH and potentialy costly or Dangerous.

You of all people being the Forum owner should be Backing me up on this kind of thing not telling someone they where correct to post what they did.!! . . . In this case you would have been better keeping your mouth Shut which you have seem to have been expertly doing on other matters for the last several months.!!

Hiding behind forum rules or guide lines is pathetic when what you should be doing is guiding from the front your self and backing up experienced members not doing what appears to be undermining them.!

In the interest of keeping the Post on Topic I've said all I'm saying about this matter now.!!

Davek0974
12-02-2014, 04:21 PM
High Integrated 4Axis Professional TB6600HG CNC Router Lathe Stepping Driver Set | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Integrated-4Axis-Professional-TB6600HG-CNC-Router-Lathe-Stepping-Driver-Set-/181279892755?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2a351fa513)

Just popped on ebay and this tb6600 is the one id like to know about. Has anyone used it? Does it do what it says on the tin? If i remember correctly I am hoping to use nema 23 motors 566oz 4nm 4a the specs say it will work so just hoping for someone to tell me its not to good to be true

I thought I'd chime in with the voice of inexperience :nevreness: I am building my first CNC plasma table, a small unit 600mm square, I too looked at those all-in-one's but aborted the thought as I had a feeling I would be blowing a few drives due to lack of experience etc. Then I went and bought a set of three drives and a breakout board from ebay, the drives had TB6600 chips on them as in the all-in-one's.

After a day playing around, one of the drives went pop for no reason at all. I did some research and it seems TB6600 chips are crap at any reasonable current, I was running 36v/4.2A and they get *Very* hot which is likely why it failed.

I then bought a different drive, ebay again, different chip, but after messing with it for a day it didn't want to talk to the cheap breakout board:dispirited:

In the end I returned the whole lot of cheap crap and spent 3 times as much at CNC4YOU.co.uk, on three drives and a decent board. Their phone service is second to none and delivery was next morning, can't speak high enough about them:couple_inlove:

Being a small machine meant i could get away with not worrying too much about mass etc, this has been proved now as I can tune the drives to stupid speeds way beyond plasma usage and it still runs perfectly, on a big machine though I would have been more concerned.


Make your own enclosure and use a breakout board and individual axis drivers. Building all the mechanics first is a given, you can get it all working without steppers and add the electrics afterwards.
Regards,
Nick

Yes but bear in mind how the drive will be transmitted to each axis, my little build went through several "oh bum" moments followed by plan-changing and head scratching when realising that what i wanted was not possible:nevreness:

PAULRO
14-03-2014, 06:34 PM
hi , i would like to build a cnc in the future but before i do i would prefer to gain some experience using mach 3 so i am building a cnc using floppy and c.d motors.the motors are 5 v . i don't know what type of hardware i need so if anybody has any suggestions or previous experiences i would like to hear from you . do i need a break out board ? what type ? any info would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance,

PaulRo.

irving2008
14-03-2014, 08:57 PM
hi , i would like to build a cnc in the future but before i do i would prefer to gain some experience using mach 3 so i am building a cnc using floppy and c.d motors.the motors are 5 v . i don't know what type of hardware i need so if anybody has any suggestions or previous experiences i would like to hear from you . do i need a break out board ? what type ? any info would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance,

PaulRo.
You would do well to start your own thread, it would get more attention.

But to answer your question, floppy and CD steppers are often odd types, like 5-phase, rather than the standard 2-phase used in most cnc work. Also they have very little torque so unless your machine is just a toy don't expect to be doing much cnc'ing. Short answer is, without knowing what steppers you have its impossible to say what drivers would suit, but most off-the-shelf drivers would be expensive overkill. You will need some form of breakout board, suggest you look at a cheap one for now, e.g Upgraded 5 Axis Cnc Breakout Board For Microstep Controller + Cables + Software | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Upgraded-5-Axis-Cnc-Breakout-Board-For-Microstep-Controller-Cables-Software-/360876291672?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item5405e73658) which includes the parallel cable...

magicniner
14-03-2014, 11:34 PM
The last thing you need is experience using Mach3 using a system which is almost, but not quite, entirely disimilar to the one you need to use it with to acieve your eventual goal.
Mach3 just works, you're more likely to have issues with CAM, Post Processors etc. but you'll not find out unless you dive in and have a go,

- Nick

Davek0974
15-03-2014, 01:36 AM
Download sheetcam, this converts DXF files into g-code which will run on mach3, then download mach3 demo license, at least you can see what it does when fed with g-code.

then you need a 2-d cad program to generate DXF files of what you want to cut, you don't mention plasma, router etc type of machine?

the motors really are the easy bit :)

if it's plasma, the HF interference will be your (and mine) major issue, read up on shielding, grounding etc

andrew583
19-08-2014, 03:18 PM
High Integrated 4Axis Professional TB6600HG CNC Router Lathe Stepping Driver Set | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Integrated-4Axis-Professional-TB6600HG-CNC-Router-Lathe-Stepping-Driver-Set-/181279892755?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2a351fa513)

Just popped on ebay and this tb6600 is the one id like to know about. Has anyone used it? Does it do what it says on the tin? If i remember correctly I am hoping to use nema 23 motors 566oz 4nm 4a the specs say it will work so just hoping for someone to tell me its not to good to be true

I've been using that controller on a small 3040 CNC mill for the last couple of years, using MACH3. I found it to be very good - it not only does the control bit but steppers are driven directly without need of extra driver boards. However whether it is meaty enough to handle big steppers as might be found on an 8x4 mill I can't say - mostly I used it to drive steppers which were drawing 1.7A apiece, but latterly upgraded to ones which draw 4A each - it took the hit no problem, though mine was only casual use so maybe it would go pop if I gave it some serious work.

I don't have any big negatives to share about this controller, and would buy another should I ever be looking to provide the functionality.

As for not buying bits as advised by others, I applaud you for taking the piecemeal approach. Buying this box is going to keep you happy fiddling around with configuring it, and I do feel it would be a wise investment to get it early - otherwise if you buy the big kit in one fell swoop you'd have a mountain to climb to get everything working. With this box and just a single stepper and some microswitches you can learn the basics.

JAZZCNC
19-08-2014, 08:01 PM
I've been using that controller on a small 3040 CNC mill for the last couple of years, using MACH3.

Ok well not getting into this debate again but will just pickup for the sake of others on the fact the board is NOT a controller. Mach3 is the controller and is software based. The board is simply combined drives and I/O interface nothing more.



I do feel it would be a wise investment to get it early - otherwise if you buy the big kit in one fell swoop you'd have a mountain to climb to get everything working. With this box and just a single stepper and some microswitches you can learn the basics.

Again in the interest of saving people money from buying Crap hardware.! . . . . There is no mountain to climb It's just the same with a couple more wires.? Then repeat for each axis.
The process is easy enough You connect motor wires to terminals on a board just the same with the only difference being you have 2 extra pair of wires for Step and Direction. That's it other than providing power to each drive which you have to do only 1 time with this controller.
The limits and Home or correctly termed I/O's are just the same no matter which setup.

The Controller Mach3 needs the same setting up as the cheap controller does with absolutely no difference in the process, just with differant numbers for the I/O so it knows where to look.

Don't get me wrong here I'm not getting at you just making it clear for those sat in the back ground(You know who you are) who don't ever speak up or ask but buy off reading post's like this.
Yours is a fair assement based on your single experience which is good and applaude you for giving it. But I've experienced lots of this crap thru helping others and it's not worth the hassle considering much better drives can be had cheap. The " It's easy " reasoning or " It's cheap" is wrong way to view it because it's not cheap when it goes "Boom" which often happens and it's not easy when your pulling hair out trying to find out what happened with limited experience.!

Like wise the individual drive setup isn't hard to setup or get your head around and if folks can't do this then maybe they should be questioning the whole idea of DIY CNC.??

andrew583
20-08-2014, 01:24 AM
Ok well not getting into this debate again but will just pickup for the sake of others on the fact the board is NOT a controller. Mach3 is the controller.....


I apologise for incorrect use of terminology. You are correct of course :)

A couple of years ago when I first took an interest in CNC (for hobby purposes) this assembly was just what the doctor ordered. It did the business of taking GCODE issued thru MACH3 and made the 3020 router/engraver perform its merry dance. I learnt a lot from that. And that's why I am happy to give this the thumbs up for a new user who is not accustomed to setting up and using a CNC machine. It is low cost enough (in the region of $100) to be viewed as a throwaway purchase down the line.

What I do think is wrong is trying to persuade people NOT to invest in this "crap technology" (using your words), and instead save up to buy the full monty. Interests come and go, and if someone bought the full monty and then lost interest then they would have paid a shedload of capital - to discover that maybe it's a hobby they don't want to follow after all. Furthermore, when they do make the full monty purchase, having used this assembly they would be conversant with everything they would need in terms of a tick list.

I'm not pretending this assembly is the dogs danglies, because it clearly isn't. It does however provide the baseline of functionality to get started with a CNC project. Furthermore, in the event that the user decided they wanted something more powerful then they could auction this on ebay to recover some of their outlay. It has crossed my mind to do just that now that I have a CNC 6040. However I still have my 3020 which I will probably continue to use for smaller projects.

Sorry if I'm offending anyone, but realistically I don't think it is fair to poo-poo this assembly given that it does actually perform the job expected of it. I've had many hours of pleasure using it, and it has enabled me to get to grips with CNC - even if I can't manage to get the terminology just right :)

Lee Roberts
20-08-2014, 11:59 AM
You don't owe anyone an apology Andrew, what you've said is spot on, though some puddings can't see past the bisto so it's probably fell on def ears :thumsup:

The components combined make up the "control system", Mach3 is just another component of that system, more specifically a gcode interpreter.

.Me

andrew583
20-08-2014, 12:24 PM
You don't owe anyone an apology Andrew, what you've said is spot on, though some puddings can't see past the bisto so it's probably fell on def ears :thumsup:

Tsk. I must be losing my touch if I'm receiving positive feedback.... :eek:

JAZZCNC
20-08-2014, 04:18 PM
Sorry if I'm offending anyone, but realistically I don't think it is fair to poo-poo this assembly given that it does actually perform the job expected of it. I've had many hours of pleasure using it, and it has enabled me to get to grips with CNC - even if I can't manage to get the terminology just right :)

Don't worrie you don't offend me or imagine anyone here. It's not personal that I corrected you and I do it with every post I see things said wrong whether they be strangers or friends and I also don't mind people doing the same with me if(when) I do it.!
I don't do this because I'm Anal or up my own A'~$ I do it because I'm dealing with lots of people Off forum so encounter wrong terminology all the time and it really can make things harder than need to be.

Now back to this "Crap technology".!! We may have to agree to disagree which often happens around here. . Lol

Your satisfaction with this board comes from your one view, your own, based on succesful results using it which is fare enough.
My dislike comes from many many experiences of helping others who have bought and killed these boards/kits relatively quickly only to waste any investment they made, not to mention time and frustration. I also experience users who like your self buy them and they work without problems but never achieve the results they would like or expect but blindly carry on thinking that's just the way DIY CNC is.
So I STRONGLY DISAGREE that there is any thing wrong with encouraging people to invest in better technology because time and time again I get thank you messages from people who have bought "Crap technology" and struggled on with it until frustration or Magic smoke brings them to taking my suggestions on board. Only then do they realise just How Rubbish or restrictive the "Crap Technology" really was and stand in disblief watching the machine that ounce struggled to go from A to B does now.

Again we will probably have to Agree to disagree but I don't think you'll be getting many thank you emails.!!

JAZZCNC
20-08-2014, 04:30 PM
Tsk. I must be losing my touch if I'm receiving positive feedback.... :eek:

No your getting it because Lee can't stand ME . . . But hey oh who gives a shit. . . .There's a saying I quite like. . . ." What anyone thinks about me is none of my business. What I think about me, and what I think about them, is my business….and my business is the business of caring for myself, my world and others in it."

Lee Roberts
20-08-2014, 05:12 PM
I think we both know that's not true, if it was you wouldn't be here :).

It's you that doesn't like me remember? and if you truly did practise what your quote of the day preaches then....well I think we know the rest.

.Me

JAZZCNC
20-08-2014, 06:53 PM
I think we both know that's not true, if it was you wouldn't be here :).

And you think I'd give a flying F'## if you did kick me off(again).! . . . . It's your forum and members that would be the losser not me.!


It's you that doesn't like me remember? and if you truly did practise what your quote of the day preaches then....well I think we know the rest.

No I don't know you Lee so I can't dislike you.! . . . I dislike what you do or don't do there's a big difference.
I base my suspicion you don't like me or to be fair should probably say don't like what I say on the fact that when someone disagree's with me whether I'm right or wrong you give them a "Thank you" . . . . . . . This is evident all thru the forum so isn't hard for folks to see it.!

Lee Roberts
20-08-2014, 08:25 PM
I disagree that members would lose? out with you not being a member, simply because your not the only wealth of information available to them, that's another discussion though isn't it.

Ok I agree I was a little off there then because to my knowledge you have only ever said "I don't like you for that" referring to the moderation I believe, so yea sorry for getting that slightly twisted.

Well your perceiving those thankyous not me, there are many different reasons why I thank post's, typically it's because I agree with or share the same thoughts for that specific post or found somthing within it paticularly useful, in whole or in part and with nothing to add to that discussion. Like I've said, I'm not responsible for your interpretation of those instances, and like I've also said in the past, I'm an open book with nothing to hide and everything to gain, if anyone wants to ask me something and then make a judgment on it after the fact, please feel free to contact me.

Of course there is, but if they look there have also been many instances where I have liked your posts too and I believe there maybe a few of mine that you have thanked as well, so like I said, it's about your interpretation and not my intention.

If you ask anyone close enough to me Dean, I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, if I "like" you, you'll get my time of day, if I don't like you, you don't exist in my world. I don't think I can be any more transparent then that, so if you don't get it this time, I won't be visiting this topic of conversation again.

.Me

JAZZCNC
20-08-2014, 08:53 PM
I disagree that members would lose? out with you not being a member, simply because your not the only wealth of information available to them, that's another discussion though isn't it.

Agree 100% I'm not the only Wealth of Info but you don't see half of what I do OFF forum for members on this forum so YES the forum members would lose BIG TIME.!

Just Like they lost John S with 50+ years wealth of information and all the OFF forum help he provided just because of your "Don't give a shit it's my forum" Attitude regards forum members. There are also other members long gone or now very very low key who often helped memebers off forum who don't speak up just because you have pissed them off for one reason or another.
These are all the things I don't Like about you and your management of the forum but dispite these things and recently other things in my life that would make some crawl under the covers and not come out I still show up here trying to help members on YOUR FORUM.

So Ye when I see you dicking around and thanking people for what is often "WRONG or BAD" (not in this case but others) Advise where I've took them to task for the sake of other members then I get VERY FUCKED OFF and can't help think it was aimed at me.!

But anyway if you want me off the forum just say the word and I'll be gone.!! . . . . Like I say it's not me that lose's only the forum and it's members.!

Lee Roberts
20-08-2014, 10:46 PM
Agree 100% I'm not the only Wealth of Info but you don't see half of what I do OFF forum for members on this forum so YES the forum members would lose BIG TIME.!

I don’t think they would, I think they would still find and get done what it is they are looking for, however you yourself would lose out in many ways that I will respectfully leave out.

We don’t need to discuss this anymore Dean; I think we have come a long way in terms of understanding what and what not to expect from each other, I’ve noted a change in your behaviour towards other members and thank you for that. I would also hope that you can acknowledge that I have learnt to understand you better and no longer edit your's or anyone else's posts with spelling, grammar or punctuation corrections. I realised some time ago that doing that was too over keen and a mistake on my part, I just thought those things were innocent mistakes that I could help with.


Just Like they lost John S with 50+ years wealth of information and all the OFF forum help he provided just because of your "Don't give a shit it's my forum" Attitude regards forum members. There are also other members long gone or now very very low key who often helped memebers off forum who don't speak up just because you have pissed them off for one reason or another.

These are all the things I don't Like about you and your management of the forum but dispite these things and recently other things in my life that would make some crawl under the covers and not come out I still show up here trying to help members on YOUR FORUM.

Well I don’t know what other issue’s people have had, as far as I know, I have addressed everything I am aware of; I’ve got no outstanding emails or PM’s.

That is not fair Dean, this has never been “my forum” or have I ever had an attitude of such description, I appreciate that I cant please all of the people all of the time but I go out of my way to try and accommodate everyone, if I wasn’t that way inclined I would never have started the forum in the first place.

You and anyone else needs to acknowledge that, just because you tell me you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s going to be reverted back, you can however expect me to review the change to see if there is anything I can do to improve on or meet a compromise, however think again if you expect me to ask for permission to wipe my own nose.

You’ve mentioned John S (again) so I will continue with that (reluctantly)...
John found the introduction of a page sidebar a problem, what did I do?, I revisited it, reduced it in size and gave him and others reading an explanation of why I wanted to make use of a sidebar and the changes I had made to accommodate everyone the best I could. What did John do? He and 2-3 others found fault with a colour change from blue to green in a few places, What did I do?, I listened to the feedback and reverted back to the blue. What did John do? He made a comment after the fact suggesting that I was colour blind, I guess that’s his version of gratitude; I don’t know I haven’t asked but like you Dean, I don’t really give a monkeys I did the best I could to make everyone happy.

I know you have had your share of life’s crap Dean, who hasn’t and I thank you for the time you put into the forum, both for yourself and others, We’re well over 6 years old now, successful and still going strong, I’ve obviously done something right but I didn’t do it all on my own.


So Ye when I see you dicking around and thanking people for what is often "WRONG or BAD" (not in this case but others) Advise where I've took them to task for the sake of other members then I get VERY FUCKED OFF and can't help think it was aimed at me.!

But anyway if you want me off the forum just say the word and I'll be gone.!! . . . . Like I say it's not me that lose's only the forum and it's members.!

I’m not sure what you’re referring to by “dicking around” so I can’t comment on that.

If I say “thank you” to another’s post, it’s exactly that, if I have something to say to you, Ill address you directly by using your name, anything else is YOUR perception. If I “thank” someone for a post that gives incorrect information, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I am thanking them for that information or that I even know that information is incorrect.

So again, this isn’t about me, it’s about you!

I think I’ve covered that well enough above, if I wanted you off the forum I would deal with that myself as you know, though I would probably consider removing myself first instead because I wouldn’t want to take the forum away from you or you away from the community in general, unfortunately if I was to remove myself I don’t know how long any of us would be here for, there is quite allot that I’ve already done and will continue to do but if it became a “bitter taste” for me then who knows what would happen, though I must say its far from being bitter for me and i’m quite excited about seeing the new things i’ve got planned come to fruition.

Enjoy what is left of your evening Dean.

.Me

JAZZCNC
20-08-2014, 11:56 PM
I don’t think they would, I think they would still find and get done what it is they are looking for, however you yourself would lose out in many ways that I will respectfully leave out.

Nah let's not leave anything out hey and I'll glady say what your eluding to.! . . . It's no secret that I make parts or build machines for people but I assure you I would not lose out on anything because unlike others I DON'T do it for the Money it's purely for the passion and the pleassure I get helping others get into CNC and the many many friends I've made all around the world.
Infact many many times I'm so soft or stupid call it what you will, I often struggle to come out even at times then when you factor into the mix I give phone or personal support that is second to none and free then I would definately WIN because I'd have much more free time. The money I can live without has my day job business's takes care of that thankfully.

So NO I wouldn't lose out on that front, I'd just move on and find another place to pass on what I know and make even more new friends..!! . . . . . Because Like there are many Dean's willing to help there are also many forums to frequent if I desired, but i'm a bit of a home bird and don't like change.! . . . . . OR . . . . . Maybe it's time.!!

Oh and when I said members would lose out I wasn't refering to the parts that get made I was refering to things like driving 150 miles to help with issues others couldn't find, fix or offer to help just for the price of cuppa tea (Price since gone up to guiness.!!) . . . . . Stupid possibly.? Passionate definately.! Begrugged never.!! . . . . . . Hell I'd even consider helping you.!

Now you enjoy your evening. .:thumsup:

HipoPapi
21-08-2014, 12:15 AM
Hi Dean,

I am unable to send you a message as your inbox is full :)
Let me know when you make some space.

Thanks

JAZZCNC
21-08-2014, 12:20 AM
Hi Dean,

I am unable to send you a message as your inbox is full :)
Let me know when you make some space.

Thanks

Ok thanks didn't know. It's sorted.

EddyCurrent
21-08-2014, 02:37 PM
Did dangerous dave get his answer then ? :joker:


(Price since gone up to guiness.!!) . . . . .

Anyway, this is the 'new' Guinness for me now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cln1Ggz9l1I

JAZZCNC
21-08-2014, 03:10 PM
Anyway, this is the 'new' Guinness for me now.

Erm I'll give that a try Eddy.! . . . Noticed the 2.5units per bottle and 3-4 daily allowance for us Men.! . . . So by how many units do you blow it by. . Lol

EddyCurrent
21-08-2014, 03:35 PM
3 or 4 bottles a session goes down nice

Edit: 2 down, one to go :beer: , I'd best stop posting for the rest of the evening now :bull_head:

JAZZCNC
22-08-2014, 12:53 AM
3 or 4 bottles a session goes down nice

Edit: 2 down, one to go :beer: , I'd best stop posting for the rest of the evening now :bull_head:

Gutted Eddy went to local Sainsbury's and they didn't have it.!! . . . . So I'm back with the old faithful until can get into town at Big sainburys store.
I'm 4 out of 6 so far but don't see me stopping untill it's 6 / 6 then crash out on settee again.!!! . . . .Repeat again tomorrow. . . . . Sad Life I know but just passes by easier thru fuzzy eyes at the minute.:dejection:

EddyCurrent
28-08-2014, 11:31 PM
Well, did you get some ? just supped 3 tonight, lovely !

JAZZCNC
29-08-2014, 02:45 PM
Well, did you get some ? just supped 3 tonight, lovely !

Tonights the night Eddy. Off to sainburys in town for a Big shop.!!