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m.marino
17-04-2009, 05:31 PM
Okay,

Great news have got the machine tuned to half step on the board switches with Steps/unit being between 135 and 148; mm/Min is between 225 (X,Z) and 560 on Y. acceleration works fine between 4 to 6 mm/sec/sec. Soft zero's and soft limits switches working fine tool input set up is going along just fine and very little heat on the unit.

NOW the PROBLEM, ther is NO, NONE, NADA, stepping motion in X at all. It will move fine under jog aand full power. Under stepping it does nothing but clicks in places. It is showing that it is trying but no go on the power to move at all. I am not sure what the problem is. Due to if it was the board the drivers on the Y axis should also be acting up. I have changed position of X zero in the machine to give it a bit better play and no joy. So will be trying a change in the g-code speed and upping it from 20% of full power to 40% and seeing how that goes for moving the X axis.

Wish me luck and any input would be well recieved.

Michael

m.marino
17-04-2009, 07:54 PM
Update on the above. Re-aligned The X axis (it was off about .5mm, how it got that way is beyond me). Now It is dropping both X & Z. This is really strange as XY share power supply so I don't think that is a problem. No smoke coming from anywhere either. So this is driving around the bend a bit. hope to get it straightened out ASAP, but will be cutting and setting up to do a good bit of the work by hand as deadlines fast approach and the gremlins are just a bit to thick on the ground right now (get things going well and another problem pops up).

Again any ideas that might shake a thought or two loose to get things going would be greatly appreciated.

Michael

Lee Roberts
18-04-2009, 12:20 AM
Mike, can you give us some more details on what Drivers your using, what power supply, are you using mach 2 or 3? Can you post up some pics of your machine ?

The others will be alog shortly im sure to help you out, the above things are questions i think they will want to know.

When you say "but clicks in places" whats giving the clicking sound ? Confirm your drivers for me and we can take it from there, i know that the MCP drivers need a good supply of power when one driver is giving a fault light (red led) and adding an addtinal power supply fix's the problem 98% of the time.

Hopfully some of the more qualified chaps will be along soon.

m.marino
18-04-2009, 11:57 AM
Mike, can you give us some more details on what Drivers your using, what power supply, are you using mach 2 or 3? Can you post up some pics of your machine ?

The others will be alog shortly im sure to help you out, the above things are questions i think they will want to know.

When you say "but clicks in places" whats giving the clicking sound ? Confirm your drivers for me and we can take it from there, i know that the MCP drivers need a good supply of power when one driver is giving a fault light (red led) and adding an addtinal power supply fix's the problem 98% of the time.

Hopfully some of the more qualified chaps will be along soon.

Okay, Here is what I have on the name?type of the motors:

23HS8603 which from Stepperworld are said to be 190 oz-in 6.75V 1.5A Unipolar six wire Motors. The information from Motion King (the firm which produces them matches with the exception of them being 140 Ncm motors. The webpage with technical info is: http://www.motionking.com/Products/Hybrid_Stepper_Motors/23HS_Stepper_Motor_57mm_1.8degree.htm .

The Drivers/Breakout board is a Stepperworld FET3 Dynamo using the power supply that comes with it (a computer PSU 650W) and set up with twelve volt and running inline 1.5 Ohm 50W resistors with one per centre tap (two total/motor). It has an indepedent 5V wired to the board from PSU for logic. Schematic can be seen at the file that i loaded of it awhile ago to the site (look for uploads by me as it is the only one there). Information on it can be had at: http://stepperworld.com/FET3dynamo.htm .

The Router is a World of CNC (Marchant Dice) MDL-2-TR-UN. Which can be seen here:http://www.worldofcnc.com/products.asp?recnumber=194 . One item that I would mention is that a tighting order was not sent with the unit (an order with which it is prefered to tighten the bolts down for truing the unit after shipping). This cost me a good bit of time in getting the unit fully true.

I am using Mach3 and have had good response via both laptop and Desk top units (until Windows ate its lunch on the Desk top and been using the laptop currently) Setting are:

PIN2 = X Direction
PIN3 = X Step
PIN4 = Y Direction
PIN5 = Y Step
PIN6 = Z Direction
PIN7 = Z Step
PIN14 = Enable 1
PIN16 = Enable 2
PIN17 = Enable 3

E Stop is emulated at present

Motors are running at between 135 to 148 steps per unit speed is running from 225 on Z, 300 on X, to 550 on Y as stable. This is in half step mode. High Torque is very choppy at these setting and Wave will not move at these setting except Y which goes very choppy. Acceleration is 4 to 5mm/sec/sec last two setting on Mach3 tuning page are 0,0. Tunig was done using and rechecking Mach3 tuner for the steps per unit. Units are mm.

When starting up must start Mach3 before starting break out board or won't see all the motors. Yet if I turn of driver?BOB and do any hardware changes (change from step to one of the other two settings) it will drop one or more motors. Current pulses are set at 25K.

Currently even on a cold start up it is not always picking up all three motors. The clicking sound when it was running all three motors but not stepping X at all was coming from the X motor and I could assist it by hand to turn in the direction of motion it needed to go. This has me believing that the motors maybe be used or not of high quality or just plain not functioning properly.

Items Looking at:


Has the motors crapped out (even though I bough them less than six months ago)? I have put less than 10 hours of run time on them.
Do I need to increase the Pulse rate to give a better signal to the system and therefore allow better control of the motors?
Do I need to go to a dedicated PSU that has 12V or 24V power output available? (the system is rated for 12V I know. I don't know if it will handle higher without finding a way to cool the FET's)
Changing the BOB which entails a whole mess in and of itself (and is not really wanted ATM, but will be done in the hopefully near future, contract first, upgrades second)

Hopefully all this detail will help those of you who can help me get this thing corrected and on line.

Michael

John S
18-04-2009, 03:25 PM
Sorry to tell you this but dump the Stepperworld board, they are rubbish.

Do a web search for problems with them.

John s.

m.marino
18-04-2009, 05:20 PM
One item forgot to mention was that this is the FET3 board with MOSFET's upgrade on it. This is not the SP3 board which is not usable for anything over 80 oz-in motors. Hope this helps clarify a bit more.

Michael

m.marino
19-04-2009, 05:33 PM
Well,

Did a full motor swap test and switched out resistors on two different axi' with the result being that John is right and new BOB and Drivers will be ordered. Now if I remember correctly I paid for that with the business Credit Card or my personal which means I can get the warranty cover on it to re-imbuurse me the cost though will send Stepperworld an e-mail and let them know it is not functioning properly all the time and how I had it set up which had more cooling capcity than it could probably generate heat wise (all passive though as active cooling can cause other problems).

That's Life and the learning curve.

Michael

Smiler
19-04-2009, 06:52 PM
Michael,

What drivers did you end up ordering?

Jeff.

m.marino
19-04-2009, 11:23 PM
Haven't as of this time but looking at Probotix's and RS's system though Probotix's has some pluses over the RS system. Unfortunately what i would like to put on the system is outside the current budget (MUST get contract closed). Once the contract on the instruments is closed and a few other items dealt with I might upgrade again (will see how their system runs). I will be upgrading to true 190 oz-in motors (probably from MotionControl) and will be sticking with unipolar wiring on the motors for a bit.

Will let you know what the final result and choices.

Michael

John S
20-04-2009, 01:22 AM
Micheal,
Take a look at the products offered by DIY-CNC

http://www.diycnc.co.uk/index.html

UK based and very reliable.

John S.

m.marino
20-04-2009, 11:06 AM
Okay,

John, if you are connected to DIYCNC let them know the order has been placed. A big thanks for the information from MotionControl and will be looking at your equipment in the future but the budget dictated another direction. I still have 20+ square feet of leather to pay for and 400+ custom springs (You would not believe the amount of parts that go into a concertina).

Michael

Smiler
20-04-2009, 06:47 PM
I'll second that John's recommendation.

First rate service and very well designed hardware.

Roy seems a really nice bloke too, fixed the Optoport I blew up and didn't charge me anything, even posted it back to me free too.

Michael, so do you make the accordions from start to finish or just supply parts?

Jeff.

m.marino
20-04-2009, 07:42 PM
I'll second that John's recommendation.

First rate service and very well designed hardware.

Roy seems a really nice bloke too, fixed the Optoport I blew up and didn't charge me anything, even posted it back to me free too.

Michael, so do you make the accordions from start to finish or just supply parts?

Jeff.

I Make concertinas from start to finish of the hybrid type (accordion reed plates not tradational English reed shoes or German long reed plates). I also build custom harmonicas from either Seydel based parts or the model parts the customer wishes when possible to acquire them. I can build a Chromatic from the reed plate up using Seydel reeds and cutting the plates myself (gets costly but alot more control in ridgeness of the plate and creating that exact tuning a player wants)

On the Accordion front I tune, repair, restore but don't build new ones myself. I can also supply parts to a few different types and can do reed replacement with a few different makers reed types.

Michael

John S
21-04-2009, 01:32 AM
Okay,

John, if you are connected to DIYCNC let them know the order has been placed. A big thanks for the information from MotionControl and will be looking at your equipment in the future but the budget dictated another direction. I still have 20+ square feet of leather to pay for and 400+ custom springs (You would not believe the amount of parts that go into a concertina).

Michael

Not connected in any way just a satisfied customer and I would believe how many parts goes into a concertina.
I use to build special purpose machines for the piano action industry, when someone tells you they have to bore up to 14,000 holes per day in wood to a 1/2 thou tolerance, they are not joking.

John S.

m.marino
21-04-2009, 09:37 AM
John,

My tolerances vary but can get vary hairy in a few spots. In a few spots it needs to be .01 of a mm and a few others .5mm is okay and will not effect play, fit, or finish. I prefer to keep it all tight though and right now going to be doing some experiemtnation with finishes to slow/stop shrinkage of the reed-pan/mechanism plate as that will add to the life span of the instrument (hey, they are already built to last about 100 years, minus the bellows, whats another one or two hundred to shoot for).

Bellows are the one weak point in modern concertinas. They will with time fail, but must well built ones will take 10 years minimum of hard daily play before doing so. With modern Phosphor bronze you can even make "brass" reeded ones that have a reed lifespan of at least 50 years soyou get the idea.

Once I get this contract closed am looking at setting up one CNC router to start making conertina reed shoes and talking to a few german firms I know to tongue them with either stainless steel reeds or with modern "brass" so that I can offer tradionally reeded instruments to the purist (It also allows me to make much smaller instruments, as I can than set the reeds in on a radial pattern instead of parallel).

Once the boards get here and bedded in with some test runs, I also am cutting some custom combs for a Suzuki that I own to make it more air tight and building my version of a slideless chromatic harmonica based off of Vern Smith's design, with some changes to decrease air loss in a few spots and mill some custom covers for it and also for the Hands Free Chromatic of Vern's that I own.

So you can see trying to keep busy as the body heals (just healing a good bit slower than I want myself too).

Michael