Giant 20' x 3' x 2' router build

[charlieuk]

We have been running tests all day. We have a ratio of 2.5:1 now. We have been playing with switching between the two drives. We just ran a test with the y and z swaped and without the spindle mounted up and it ran ok however we then ran the same test with the spindle mounted and it tripped the same driver however that driver is on the y axis so looks like it may bea setting in the driver? With a posable link to something else?

[JAZZCNC]

These are the settings I have for the z. I am struggling to load a driver for the USB to 232 cable for windows 8 that I got from zapp. The cd it came with says windows 8 but it's all in Chinese. We have just swapped the drivers back and re running the file to see if the problem comes back

Charlie your all cocked up on the settings both on the drives and in Mach3.
You have the amps set wrong on drives because your using RMS settings not peak so they are getting too many amps. This will make them get hotter than should also you have the stand by current set to off so they will get hot when stood still.
So set up Dip switches like this and then try.
1=OFF 2=OFF 3=ON This will give 4.6A which is slightly higher than motors are rated and normally I'd say use next lowest but in your case it won't hurt for now. Thou I would set it correctly in protune at first chance.
4= ON
5 /6/7 Leave as set for now thou I would normally use higher than 400 micro steps for smoother motor movement. But you have the steps per set wrong in Mach3 which i'll come to next.
8=ON

With Mach you need the steps per setting to 200. This is because you have applied a ratio and now your affective pitch as gone from 5mm to 2mm per Rev.
So 400 / 2= 200 steps per millimeter.

Try these new settings and see how goes.

[Clive S]

Dean I notice the arrow on the drive is pointing to the letter C is that correct? .. Clive

[charlieuk]

hi dean

sorry the picture I posted was when I still had it with the 2:1 ratio it is now set at 199.98 or something around that for the 2.5:1 ratio (this we done through the calibration function in setting on mach)

from my reading of the leadshine manual on page 14 from what we can tell it is saying switch 4 should be off for reducing the idel current?

since we re auto tuned the motor it has not yet stopped again but will adjust these setting once clear on them.

best regards

[JAZZCNC]

Dean I notice the arrow on the drive is pointing to the letter C is that correct? .. Clive

Yes it's the first custom motor setting. slightly differant to AM882 clive.

[JAZZCNC]

from my reading of the leadshine manual on page 14 from what we can tell it is saying switch 4 should be off for reducing the idel current?


Not in my manual see pic.!
14202

If you change the Amp setting which you really should then you'll need to re-tune the drive. Always re-tune with any changes made.

[charlieuk]

this is what we have been going by and what I got from there website. page 14

http://www.leadshine.com/UploadFile/Down/EMhm_P.pdf

[JAZZCNC]

Try this one.

[charlieuk]

hmm that's interesting that it seams to suggest the opposite very odd! will try switching the settings according to that!
Many thanks

[JAZZCNC]

hmm that's interesting that it seams to suggest the opposite very odd! will try switching the settings according to that!
Many thanks

This is correct and it does work 100% tried tested many many times. .:loyal:

[charlieuk]

Great thes good news! Many thanks indeed I will change switch 123and 4 then re auto tune. I'm still trying to down load a driver (see other thread) and when I figure that I will ajust the Amps

[charlieuk]

Now I'm slowly starting to understand it a little more I'm Just wondering if I can improve the x axis as well with the kinco drive as we have noticed it is a bit notchy at the slower speed at ether end of the cuts so just wondering what I should have the micro steps set at for that? It is running a 4:1 ratio (yet to sort out the 6:1 box) I will take a look at what the other seting we have it set at tomorrow. Realy apresiate your patience!

[charlieuk]

So continuing with the above post the x axis is set switch 1 to zero which is only 2micro steps and switch 2 to three which I think is right which is the 6a peak setting for the 8nm nema 34 and like I say at slow movements at ether end of the boards I'm cutting is quite lumpy and at full speed it still looks like it is hardly working. Can I up the micro steps on the x and possibly the y and z too? How do you determine what they need to be at?

[JAZZCNC]

Now I'm slowly starting to understand it a little more I'm Just wondering if I can improve the x axis as well with the kinco drive as we have noticed it is a bit notchy at the slower speed at ether end of the cuts so just wondering what I should have the micro steps set at for that? It is running a 4:1 ratio (yet to sort out the 6:1 box) I will take a look at what the other seting we have it set at tomorrow. Realy apresiate your patience!

Charlie setting the micro steps higher makes the motors run smoother, thou at a very slight expense of some torque but it really is nothing worth bothering about and the trade off is well worth it.
Problem with high micro steps is that you need much higher number of pulses(frequency or Kernal speed in Mach3) to get the same speed or move the same distance. Normally with the parallel port this becomes a problem because it's too much strain on it with higher MS and can't cope so you get missed steps etc.

You how ever listened to uncle Jazz and bought Motion control card and a very good one to boot. So you can crank up the MS and not worry to much.
So set the MS to at least 1600 (sw3 or 8 micro steps) or 3200(sw5) wouldn't hurt (thou 1600 is good enough.) and listen to the difference and you'll also see it when going very slow.

Edit: With the Csmio-IP-M card the Kernal speed in mach is ignored so leave it set at 25Khz.

[charlieuk]

Great many thanks uncle jazz haha I have now changed the ms and it sounds way better . Back to the em806 drives and we have just measures the idle current and it seams switch 4 half current needs to be set to off it went from 1v to 1/2 at standstill this also matches what it says on the side of the drive.

[JAZZCNC]

Great many thanks uncle jazz haha I have now changed the ms and it sounds way better . Back to the em806 drives and we have just measures the idle current and it seams switch 4 half current needs to be set to off it went from 1v to 1/2 at standstill this also matches what it says on the side of the drive.

Erm interesting those markings are different to last few sets I've used. I've got some drives in stock waiting to fit to a machine and just checked and they are same as those you have so looks like they have changed.? Colour is slightly different as well, much paler colour.!

[charlieuk]

well glad I could help you out with that :friendly_wink: all seams to be running smother now especially on the x. it has just cut out right towards the end of the test but I had upped the speeds a bit so will try backing them off again.

[charlieuk]

I finally got the driver installed on the pc to use pro tune so I can now set things up a bit better hopefully. I have to set the switches to on so guess I will have to re set the amps micro steps and idle current in there and then do the manual calibration? there seams to be quite a lot of other stuff that you can set that I don't have a clue about, is it anything I need to worry about? any tips ?

many thank

[JAZZCNC]

Yes set everyhting up in System Config screen first but then you tune the drives thru software using the current loop tuning screen.
In here you can play with the settings or just use Auto which is same as flicking dip switch 4.
99% of time auto works fine so I'd just use that.

In the System Config screen don't worry about the sliders etc they are for tuning resonance and unless you have any problems the default settings will work fine.
The main settings your interested in are at the top. Peak Cur(A) and micro steps. The others you can leave at defaults.
One other setting you may need to change when your setting up the Fault signal to activate the E-stop is the Alarm Signal Low - High option. This will depend on how you do it but often you have to toggle this so it activates when state goes High.

[EddyCurrent]

Dip switch 4 is a good option as jazz says, I use it mainly because it's a pain trying to plug into the drivers, if only they'd put that socket on the front :sorrow:

[charlieuk]

I think some how I had done something wrong the first time around trying to set it up so tried again. setting the micro step to 1600 and the amps to 4.2 and doing the auto tune.

am I right in thinking if I have a 2.5:1 and 1600 ms the steps per should be at 640?

[charlieuk]

oops ok realized I have gone wrong again im getting my steps per rev and micro steps mixed up. can any one clarify the difference?

[JAZZCNC]

Steps per is how many steps required to move 1 unit. So if your working in MM then how many steps to move 1mm.

Micro steps is how many micro steps to turn 1 revolution of the screw.

So the calcution for STEPS PER MM is first Divide screw pitch by ratio then divide Micro steps by calculated Pitch. IE 5 / 2.5=2 so 1600/2=800 Steps per MM

[charlieuk]

ok so is the 1600 we were setting using the switches witch on the side of the driver refers to as step/rev is the same as in pro tune when you set the micro step?

many thanks

[JAZZCNC]

ok so is the 1600 we were setting using the switches witch on the side of the driver refers to as step/rev is the same as in pro tune when you set the micro step?

many thanks

Ok I think I see your confussion Charlie.? There's 2 ways to describe the same thing.!
Some will say 4X 8X 16X etc which is technicly more accurate and this relates to the amount of degree's the stepper motor gives per revolution multiplied by the number.
Other way just assumes typical 200 steps per rev and gives total micro steps per rev.

IE typical stepper uses 1.8 degree or 360/1.8=200 steps per revolution. So 4 x 200 = 800 micro steps per revolution
If you used 1.2 degree steppers then it would be 360/1.2=300 so 4 x 300=1200 MicroSteps Per Rev

The Drives show typical 200 steps per rev on the front but the protune uses the more correct multiplication factor. so if you want 1600 micro steps you'd use 8 in protune.

[charlieuk]

I Yes much confusion but it makes sence now, was wondering why when I put 1600 in pro tune it went rather slow! Super smooth though lol many thanks

[JAZZCNC]

I Yes much confusion but it makes sence now, was wondering why when I put 1600 in pro tune it went rather slow! Super smooth though lol many thanks

Yes 320,000 micro steps per revolution does tend to have that affect . . LOL

[charlieuk]

Hi all hope every one is doing well, its been a while since I have been on here mainly due to the fact the cnc has made me super busy with what I made it for ( cutting stand up paddle boards)

Any way last week I made my biggest mistake and killed my super expensive router bit by hitting something and bending it a fraction, I nearly cried!

I have a new bit now although of a different type and this one requires spinning the opposite direction. Tbh I have kinda forgotten a lot about how I built it and set it up but just wondering if any one could prompt me with the best way I would go about changing from ccw to cw rotation on the china 2.2kw spindle/vfd.



any for those that are interested this is what I have been cutting the last year.

Many thanks

17255

[Clive S]

If you don't want to change any software or vfd settings then just swapping any two of the three wires over going to the spindle will reverse it.

[JAZZCNC]

Charlie do you control on/off thru software.? If so then just swap wire going to "For" to "Rev".

Or if you want both forward and reverse options then setup another wire coming from Spindle control relay to the "Rev" and use M4 in your G-code.

[charlieuk]

Charlie do you control on/off thru software.? If so then just swap wire going to "For" to "Rev".

Or if you want both forward and reverse options then setup another wire coming from Spindle control relay to the "Rev" and use M4 in your G-code.


cheers guys I guess it would be handy to have booth available I will have to open it up and see if tony wired it like that already

many thanks

[charlieuk]

I guess if I just use the m4 code it tell me if we wired it for it or not already?

[Clive S]

I guess if I just use the m4 code it tell me if we wired it for it or not already?Yes that would be correct If not as Dean has said just change the position of the cable going to the "For" and put it in the "Rev" terminal in the VFD

[JAZZCNC]

I guess if I just use the m4 code it tell me if we wired it for it or not already?

Yes and it's likely not.! . . . But Charlie be aware that these spindles are not designed to be run in reverse.? They can unscrew the collet running in reverse if the forces are high.
In your case I think you'll be ok but still make sure you really tighten the collet.

[charlieuk]

Yes and it's likely not.! . . . But Charlie be aware that these spindles are not designed to be run in reverse.? They can unscrew the collet running in reverse if the forces are high.
In your case I think you'll be ok but still make sure you really tighten the collet.

ok great I havnt been out there today but will go investigate more tomorrow. I think I must have been running counter clockwise all this time then and not realy noticed it as the bits I have been using don't matter which direction they go.


although saying that I did try cut some wood once with a normal bit and it was a very average cut, maybe it had something to do with it spinning the rong way lol must give that another go now I guess and maybe it will actually cut ok haha

[Blackrat]

what happened to all the pics in this thread ?

have you cut any more boards ?

[longy]

what happened to all the pics in this thread ?

have you cut any more boards ?
I was wondering the same thing, even the pics from some of the build logs seem to be missing ? :(