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View Full Version : Help needed identifying this 1300x2500 CnC Router Machine!



shapebusters
09-04-2014, 04:06 AM
Although these pictures are very small and bad (its what i have been given) what can you say about this 1300x2500 Cnc Router machine, construction quality, etc.
I dont know the company that makes it, the only thing I know is the worksize. And im tempted to make a trip to get it, but i really need your help and opinions.

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badgerman
09-04-2014, 10:37 AM
Hi,

Unfortunately I do not recognise the machine at all - is is described as a Euromod? It doesn't resemble any of the ISEL machines I know of and the construction is not as per ISEL systems (it looks like it has exposed linear rails for example).

Sorry I can't be of any help - it looks like a nice solid machine though!

Chris

gavztheouch
09-04-2014, 11:07 AM
Prob an ok machine if the price is right, certainly a good starting point for modifiying/improving. To me it looks like an older chinese built machine, similer anyway. It has Hiwin profile rails and possibly rack and pinion drive on the x and y.

The size is great as you can use full sheets of ply, which is great for hack spaces as a lot of people design projects around 8 by 4 sheets.

I you are looking for a guide price I would guess around 1000-2000 if it doesn't work and maybe a little more if it does. You can buy these new from china for 6000 so don't pay over the odd.

A vacuum pump may be under that black plastic which would be a bonus, but I know the chinese ones do not work very well. A good vacuum pump for this machine could set you back 1000-1500 second hand or 2500 new.

It looks like there is no tool changer but that would also be a nice bonus if it does.

EddyCurrent
09-04-2014, 01:14 PM
Looks like it was here, in a job lot I think so price is for other stuff too ? no more info unfortunately.

(scroll down the page a bit) Fresa usados, baratos para venda (http://usadosbaratos.eu/pesquisar/Fresa)

JAZZCNC
09-04-2014, 02:39 PM
Looks like it was here, in a job lot I think so price is for other stuff too ? no more info unfortunately.

(scroll down the page a bit) Fresa usados, baratos para venda (http://usadosbaratos.eu/pesquisar/Fresa)

Eddy Current that's not what the Op asked or probably wanted broadcasting.! . .:thumbdown:

Shapebuster: Sorry don't know the make but Like others say it looks like chinese type machine but resonably well built, thou if that is the price then it's not really worth that sort of money unless it's fully working with Tool changer and Vacuum pump pump and even then I think it's not overly cheap.

shapebusters
09-04-2014, 02:56 PM
Eddy Current that's not what the Op asked or probably wanted broadcasting.! . .:thumbdown:

Shapebuster: Sorry don't know the make but Like others say it looks like chinese type machine but resonably well built, thou if that is the price then it's not really worth that sort of money unless it's fully working with Tool changer and Vacuum pump pump and even then I think it's not overly cheap.

Hahaha. There is no problem with the advertise publicity. Its already offline, and the phonenumber was wrong.
The deal is done. Im going to pick it up monday for 3000GBP, with a vacuum but no tool changer. Machine is said to be working like new, but the person who is selling the machine its not the owner, but someone who has all the closed company machinery and equipment for sell.
with this price i will also buy the computer and lcd, a spray painting and drying chamber, and some tools.

What should i look for in the machine regarding its possible hidden problems?

Thanks

EddyCurrent
09-04-2014, 03:18 PM
Eddy Current that's not what the Op asked or probably wanted broadcasting.! . .:thumbdown:

Never mind thumbs down ! I knew it had gone, the link from there was dead, it was to give some idea of price, if you read the text in the ad it was part of a job lot.

JAZZCNC
09-04-2014, 04:29 PM
Never mind thumbs down ! I knew it had gone, the link from there was dead, it was to give some idea of price, if you read the text in the ad it was part of a job lot.

But you didn't know that you just assumed and we all know what ASSuming leads too.!!. . . . . . . .He didn't ask for a Price he asked for Opinions on it and if it had still been up for sale you could have lost it for him.!! . . . So Ye your still getting :thumbdown:

Shapebuster: 3K seems fair price if it's all working.
Things to look out for are just the obvious like Rusty rails, Sloppy linear bearings so grab them firmly and feel for movement, Worn teeth on Rack and Pinion, Check spindle turns freely and again grab firmly at nose and feel for movement.
Less of a concern but still worth Checking if wires are brittle or chewed by mice etc if it's been stood for some time.

Hope it works well for you.!

shapebusters
09-04-2014, 04:41 PM
But you didn't know that you just assumed and we all know what ASSuming leads too.!!. . . . . . . .He didn't ask for a Price he asked for Opinions on it and if it had still been up for sale you could have lost it for him.!! . . . So Ye your still getting :thumbdown:

Shapebuster: 3K seems fair price if it's all working.
Things to look out for are just the obvious like Rusty rails, Sloppy linear bearings so grab them firmly and feel for movement, Worn teeth on Rack and Pinion, Check spindle turns freely and again grab firmly at nose and feel for movement.
Less of a concern but still worth Checking if wires are brittle or chewed by mice etc if it's been stood for some time.

Hope it works well for you.!

Thank you!
You know in Portugal its not easy to get this machines (at least bigger ones) and they are overpriced. Most of them its bought by professional machinery resellers.
It looks like a very good business. The seller has a lot of stuff he wants to get rid of, and i will be taking a pickup truck and an extra trailer to take what i might use.
If everything goes well (this weekend i will build a heavy duty pallet to load the machine, and i believe that with a trailer that is 3m long a winch, and a pallet lift i will be able to load the machine in the trailer. I will wrap it with clear plastic and hold it firmly for the 300km travel.
If all goes well i will be posting a new post with the machine!
Its great, because im building a CoWork/Makers space, and a lot of the interior furniture will be done by me in the cnc, straight from Rhino.
After with the machine in my possession, i will have new concerns: how will i be able to use Rhinocam with the CNC, do a full machine revision and maintenance, etc.:distracted:

EddyCurrent
09-04-2014, 05:30 PM
But you didn't know that you just assumed and we all know what ASSuming leads too.!!. . . . . . . .He didn't ask for a Price he asked for Opinions on it and if it had still been up for sale you could have lost it for him.!! . . . So Ye your still getting :thumbdown:

1. I did not assume, I followed the links and the original advert had clearly gone
2. I am not an ASS and I don't need silly little sayings posted to that effect
3. Price usually forms part of the opinion making process, it does in my world.
4. :tranquillity:

george uk
09-04-2014, 06:20 PM
Hi

that sounds a good price for a machine that size, i had been bidding on similar in the UK. Do you know how heavy it is.

When your moving it, make sure it does not bend under its own weight in the middle, Also, depending on its weight, you may need some machine skates. Good luck with moving it but make sure you understand the weight. And look for purpose build lifting points/connections.

shapebusters
09-04-2014, 08:14 PM
Hi

that sounds a good price for a machine that size, i had been bidding on similar in the UK. Do you know how heavy it is.

When your moving it, make sure it does not bend under its own weight in the middle, Also, depending on its weight, you may need some machine skates. Good luck with moving it but make sure you understand the weight. And look for purpose build lifting points/connections.

Well, my idea is to join 3 pallets with 6 x 3m long wood beams, in order to make a 3m x 1,5m pallet, with fixing/anchoring points.
Then with the help of a hi-lift, slowly put the CnC over the pallet. Fix the CnC router to the pallet and wrap it with plastic film. Then with the help two pallet lifters, pull the pallet near to the trailer:
12026 12027 that as 3220x1760mm and can carry 2900kg.
The with the help of an electric winch assembled in the trailer, i will pull the pallet to the trailer helping with pallet lifters.
Off course Ideally i would have some machine skates (squid table) to roll the pallet into the trailer. Better, would be to have a Fork Lift Truck to place the pallet with the cnc on top of the trailer...

What do you think?

george uk
09-04-2014, 08:41 PM
one or two pallet jacks will do the job. And if your dragging it on wood, onto the trailer, grease the wood. We just got a hugely heavy machine out of a small space with 2 of them

Depending on the weight of the machine, i might consider jacking it up one end, backing the trailer under it, connect and tighten your winch, take both jacks to the back end, jack it close to level, then pull it with the winch,

What do you think it weighs, i would say bewteen 750kg to 2500kg,

shapebusters
09-04-2014, 09:13 PM
one or two pallet jacks will do the job. And if your dragging it on wood, onto the trailer, grease the wood. We just got a hugely heavy machine out of a small space with 2 of them

Depending on the weight of the machine, i might consider jacking it up one end, backing the trailer under it, connect and tighten your winch, take both jacks to the back end, jack it close to level, then pull it with the winch,

What do you think it weighs, i would say bewteen 750kg to 2500kg,

I have been told it weights 700kgs.

JAZZCNC
09-04-2014, 09:54 PM
I have been told it weights 700kgs.

That sounds a little light and I would guess 1000Kgs would be more realistic. Friend and me wounce moved a much heavier machine (Wadkin 6 headed spindle moulder) up and over a 400mm high wall onto similair trailer with just 2 trolly jacks 2 Planks of wood and scaffold tube. . . . With levers and rollers you can move anything Just like the Egyptians. .:yahoo:


Eddy current here you go if it helps you sleep better. . :thumsup:

george uk
09-04-2014, 10:13 PM
700kg, you will easy do that with 2 pallet jacks.

Just be careful not to pull the machine out of shape when you place it on/off the trailer, you will be fine. Drive slow back. Here in the UK, HIABs ( trucks with cranes ), are reasonably priced if you ring around. I say that, becuase even at 700kg, plus the waight of the trailer, its a lot to tow with a car or van, so be careful.

shapebusters
09-04-2014, 10:40 PM
700kg, you will easy do that with 2 pallet jacks.

Just be careful not to pull the machine out of shape when you place it on/off the trailer, you will be fine. Drive slow back. Here in the UK, HIABs ( trucks with cranes ), are reasonably priced if you ring around. I say that, becuase even at 700kg, plus the waight of the trailer, its a lot to tow with a car or van, so be careful.

Thank you. I will, and i will take pictures of everything!

george uk
10-04-2014, 01:00 AM
That sounds a little light and I would guess 1000Kgs would be more realistic............ with just 2 trolly jacks 2 Planks of wood and scaffold tube. . . . With levers and rollers you can move anything Just like the Egyptians. .:yahoo:


Totaly agree there Jazz, i wne and looked at 2 similar ( afa i can tell from the pics ). i think they was 1300kg and 2200kg inc power units. and yes, jacks, leavers and rollers, but they start to come undone on uneven ground, as i learnt last week

shapebusters
10-04-2014, 06:45 PM
Eddy Current that's not what the Op asked or probably wanted broadcasting.! . .:thumbdown:

Shapebuster: Sorry don't know the make but Like others say it looks like chinese type machine but resonably well built, thou if that is the price then it's not really worth that sort of money unless it's fully working with Tool changer and Vacuum pump pump and even then I think it's not overly cheap.

From what i have looked its as similarities to this one dont you think?
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Maybe Its a older model of this SUDA VG1325 cnc router, from ONGXING TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT Co
http://www.sudacnc.cn/offer/526836431.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHYUWLCrrI8

With this specs:http://www.txgm.dpes.com.cn/product/2011/12/278.html

What do you think?

JAZZCNC
10-04-2014, 08:09 PM
Yes that looks very much like the machine doesn't it. I noticed the weight is 1250Kg which i would say is more realistic than 750Kg. That's not overly heavy so should move it easy enough.

Good Luck.

shapebusters
11-04-2014, 02:51 AM
Yes that looks very much like the machine doesn't it. I noticed the weight is 1250Kg which i would say is more realistic than 750Kg. That's not overly heavy so should move it easy enough.

Good Luck.
Thank you for your help!
So you keep your opinion about the purchase relating to the quality of the machine? Any special precaution to check, or do prior to the "moving"?

JAZZCNC
11-04-2014, 10:00 AM
So you keep your opinion about the purchase relating to the quality of the machine? Any special precaution to check, or do prior to the "moving"?

Yes it's just about what thought it would be for chinese built machine, not the best in the world but more than good enough for most small wood shops.
Nothing to add about moving the machine other than common sense lock every thing down.

Looking at the picture your machine as Hi-win rails which are decent quality so they shouldn't be wornout looking at the condition of the machine. Condition of Rack & pinion would be my main area to look at when you have it home. This will be the weak area on this machine either because of quality or poor maintenance and setup.
R&P wears very quickly if not setup correctly, often it's over tightened to eliminate backlash and this causes excess friction so wears the Rack. Or other way and not maintained and pinion is under engaged so wears tops of teeth away.!

Electronicly then can't say because it's like a box of Chocolates with Chinese machines "You never know what your going to get" but often they are one area they compromise to keep costs down.? Post pictures when you have it home and settled.

Shame your so far away Else I'd gladly come help you move it and get working.!!. . . . Thou it does like nice and Hot there so if you want to send me ticket for plane ride I may be tempted to a Bus mans holiday. .:yahoo:

GEOFFREY
11-04-2014, 01:32 PM
How about a Bus mans holiday in sunny Lincolnshire Jazz - I could pay for the diesel. G.

shapebusters
11-04-2014, 06:20 PM
Shame your so far away Else I'd gladly come help you move it and get working.!!. . . . Thou it does like nice and Hot there so if you want to send me ticket for plane ride I may be tempted to a Bus mans holiday. .:yahoo:

HAhaha! You are welcome... and it was you who remembered the idea! I can also ensure you that your Busman holiday would be very well spent! Maybe you could bring your family!
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We will (and we will not!!!:stupid:) expect to have difficulties or problems with the machine!

Thank you again, and best regards from Sintra (Azenhas do Mar) Portugal!

JAZZCNC
11-04-2014, 07:08 PM
Thank you again, and best regards from Sintra (Azenhas do Mar) Portugal!

Looks a Beautiful beautiful place to live so pretty I'm tempted to buy my own Ticket thou you may find I'd I want to stay longer than few days, more like Few decades.!!

Geoffrey: If I wasn't so busy I'd come over in a shot but unfortunatly I'm upto my neck in work so even Sinta Portugal would be a pipe dream at the moment.
That said My daughter will soon be at Lincoln University so I'll be coming your way at some point so I'll may be drop you a line and call see you.?

GEOFFREY
12-04-2014, 12:22 AM
You are right Jazz, our fens and cold weather cannot compete with what looks like paradise, but you will always be very wellcome if you do find yourself in the area (about 35 miles south of Lincoln) when your daughter is at university. Congratulations to your daughter for getting to university - she obviously gets her brains from her mother!!! G.

shapebusters
16-04-2014, 01:54 AM
Hello!
After some work on building a heavy duty pallet, and some mechanical issues on the trailer brakes, i have everything ready to bring the CnC to its new home!
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As soon as i have it near me, i will post pictures.:excitement:

In the meantime maybe you all can give me your opinions::very_drunk:

Prob an ok machine if the price is right, certainly a good starting point for modifiying/improving.
In your opinion which may be the major cnc working limitations of the machine? For instance will it machine 3d wood parts?
What improvements would you give it, and how much do you think it will cost?

JAZZCNC
16-04-2014, 10:25 AM
In your opinion which may be the major cnc working limitations of the machine? For instance will it machine 3d wood parts?
What improvements would you give it, and how much do you think it will cost?

Mechanicly There should be no limitations for the purpose it was designed for which would be mostly wood routing. It will easily handle 3D type work and anything in between. Without knowing the resolution the only area it may not perform so well in is fine engraving or detailed work.? This is due to using rack & pinion but I'd be very surprised if it couldn't do half decent job.

Does the machine come with it's own controller.? If it does this could be the grey area and how it handles large files that 3D work produce, it could also be an area where you struggle with post processing in CAM software. Or worse still it needs dedicated Cam software.!! If your new to CNC then post processing is where the CAM software formats the outputted G-code file to suit the Controller that runs your machine. In your case you may not know or the CAM have a post processor for that machine.

Often with older machines that have restrictive controllers or tied to dedicated software then it's easier to just retro fit with PC Software based controller like MAch3 or Linux Cnc.

Good luck with the move.

shapebusters
16-04-2014, 02:57 PM
Mechanicly There should be no limitations for the purpose it was designed for which would be mostly wood routing. It will easily handle 3D type work and anything in between. Without knowing the resolution the only area it may not perform so well in is fine engraving or detailed work.? This is due to using rack & pinion but I'd be very surprised if it couldn't do half decent job.

Does the machine come with it's own controller.? If it does this could be the grey area and how it handles large files that 3D work produce, it could also be an area where you struggle with post processing in CAM software. Or worse still it needs dedicated Cam software.!! If your new to CNC then post processing is where the CAM software formats the outputted G-code file to suit the Controller that runs your machine. In your case you may not know or the CAM have a post processor for that machine.

Often with older machines that have restrictive controllers or tied to dedicated software then it's easier to just retro fit with PC Software based controller like MAch3 or Linux Cnc.

Good luck with the move.

Hello there!
Thank you for your quick reply.
Im not new to CNC, but the experience i have (that you can see part on my presentation post) is more related with the working and machining, and not so with the mechanics and machine construction.
I have worked for some years with a Gravograph IS8000XP (1.2mx0.6m), and a bigger OUPLAN cnc machine with 3mx2m. Both 2d and 3d works, using Rhinocam, and for some simple cuts the Gravograph software (really bad one...)
So thanks again for the advices and help, hopefully tomorrow i can place here at the end of the day a new post with photos of the machine!

Best regards from Portugal

shapebusters
23-04-2014, 11:43 PM
Hello everyone!
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Well as promised, here i am sharing the adventure on buying the Cnc .
Unlike what I had been told by the brother of the seller, the machine was in a basement , with 4 steps of depth and a very small door.
The good part was that the machine had little things that could be pointed to the seller, so that it lowered the price even more. Since he was not in Portugal (it's in Brazil ) i sended him by email the photos, showing that when the machine was storaged there, someone bented the frame of the machine. (Dont worry, using a digital level i checked the geometry of the machine , and everything was spotless!)
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These findings allowed me to negotiate the machine for 1.750 GBP, and still bring a tool cart and some extra things. Brought the computer machine , manuals, cds , and more one thing or another.
I found the invoice and the machine was sold by a Spanish company in October 2007 , as shown in the plate that has the back .
After solved the transportation problem and how to make / pull the machine from the basement to the trailer, we brought it to its new home!
One of the first things i did was to remove the bented parts and straighten them.
Then I cleaned and lubricated the entire machine, checking tightness of bolts.
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For tomorrow i will try to make it move and cut something. But i am very positive, because when dismantling some parts for the cleaning i found very little dirt and wood particles. The machine was used but very little time.
The Photographs of the controller unit, and command - rznc 0501 are missing, but inside there is a unit similar to this one,12184
I have some questions , especially regarding the 3kw spindle. Should i install new plastic tubes? In the picture you can see they are not clean, is it supposed to be?
Does anyone have a manual? Where am i supposed to connect the two plastic tubes?
I would like to hear your opinions about the machine, bring it on!
What would you improve/upgraded?

Best regards from Portugal!

JAZZCNC
24-04-2014, 01:08 AM
I have some questions , especially regarding the 3kw spindle. Should i install new plastic tubes? In the picture you can see they are not clean, is it supposed to be?
Where am i supposed to connect the two plastic tubes?

Yes replace the tubes they look very contaminated. Also make sure the spindle isn't blocked up, blow air thru it.

Connect one of the tubes to a submersible water pump inside a tank of water and return the other tube back to the tank.

shapebusters
24-04-2014, 02:05 AM
Yes replace the tubes they look very contaminated. Also make sure the spindle isn't blocked up, blow air thru it.

Connect one of the tubes to a submersible water pump inside a tank of water and return the other tube back to the tank.

OK!:loyal:
Where am i supposed to get the power from?

Thank you for the help!

JAZZCNC
24-04-2014, 02:42 AM
OK!:loyal:
Where am i supposed to get the power from?

The last picture you showed on the previous post is the VFD ( Variable frequency Drive) this is what controls the spindle. It takes 220-240V 60hz single phase power and converts it to 3 phase variable frequency between 0hz and upto 600hz depending on the rating of the VFD and spindle. Probably 400hz. This gives you the abilty to control the speed of the Spindle.

You can also control the VFD from the CNC controller and have the software turn on/off and set the speed. This does require other hardware called a spindle speed controller which outputs signals to the VFD.
Your control box may or may not have this.? If you supply good quality pictures of inside then we may be able to see if you have one or not.?

shapebusters
24-04-2014, 03:03 AM
...If you supply good quality pictures of inside then we may be able to see if you have one or not.?

I will do this tomorrow! Thanks again.
When i have it running i will try to do this: https://vimeo.com/89100826
:yahoo:

JAZZCNC
24-04-2014, 03:12 AM
I will do this tomorrow! Thanks again.
When i have it running i will try to do this: https://vimeo.com/89100826
:yahoo:

Very easy to do but the machine will need to be setup very accurately and the bed surface machined perfectly flat.

shapebusters
24-04-2014, 03:28 AM
Very easy to do but the machine will need to be setup very accurately and the bed surface machined perfectly flat.

Well the bed surface is an easy part, i usually tape glue a pvc board on the T-slots aluminium bed, and mill it in order to rectify the Zero plane.

The part of "Setup the machine accurately" is the dark side for me. But i have to learn it.

shapebusters
24-04-2014, 03:03 PM
The last picture you showed on the previous post is the VFD ( Variable frequency Drive) this is what controls the spindle. It takes 220-240V 60hz single phase power and converts it to 3 phase variable frequency between 0hz and upto 600hz depending on the rating of the VFD and spindle. Probably 400hz. This gives you the abilty to control the speed of the Spindle.

You can also control the VFD from the CNC controller and have the software turn on/off and set the speed. This does require other hardware called a spindle speed controller which outputs signals to the VFD.
Your control box may or may not have this.? If you supply good quality pictures of inside then we may be able to see if you have one or not.?

Here are the pictures:
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I have already changed the water cooling spindle tubes. About the cooling of the spindle can i use a Computer water cooling system?
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