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MikeyC38
19-07-2014, 11:27 PM
I'm sorry for asking this if it has been already asked but what does everyone mean when we are advised to use 4 core CY cable when wiring 8 cable stepper motors in parallel? My understanding of 4 core CY cable is 3 numbered black conductors + a green/yellow earth which is in the outer layer plus the screen. Surely I need to buy 5 core CY cable so the stepper coils are wired with the black conductors?

BTW Jazz, John S, Lee and Jonathan the build of my Ali gantry style router is about to start! So thanks to you guys for the help and patience and to all who have helped me on this forum in the last 3 years! Thanks Lee for the steer on reasonably priced circular saw blades for Alu

Mike

Clive S
19-07-2014, 11:40 PM
The colours don't matter, the electricity does not care about the colour of the cable so 4 core cy cable has 4 cores as you have stated all of them are separate from the screen. The screen should be earthed at a star point (where all the earths are connected together to avoid any ground loops in the control box) you only need to earth one end of the cable, depending on the size of the motors I use 1mm others use 1.5 mm. Good luck with your build. ..Clive

MikeyC38
20-07-2014, 01:44 AM
The colours don't matter, the electricity does not care about the colour of the cable so 4 core cy cable has 4 cores as you have stated all of them are separate from the screen. The screen should be earthed at a star point (where all the earths are connected together to avoid any ground loops in the control box) you only need to earth one end of the cable, depending on the size of the motors I use 1mm others use 1.5 mm. Good luck with your build. ..Clive

Thanks Clive for the prompt reply. I am using the Zapp Kit 1 ( NEMA23 3Nm Steppers, 36 volts 4.2A) so I guess 1mm2 should be ok and connect the screen at one end only (the control box) as you said. I will be using 4 pin XLR plugs and chassis sockets as they seem to have good contact surfaces and provide some locking to prevent accidently being pulled out! Found 4 pin XLR plugs at Maplin, but no sockets! Ebay to the rescue again and sourced 3 pairs reasonably priced.

Regards
Mike

JAZZCNC
20-07-2014, 02:13 AM
I will be using 4 pin XLR plugs and chassis sockets as they seem to have good contact surfaces and provide some locking to prevent accidently being pulled out! Found 4 pin XLR plugs at Maplin, but no sockets! Ebay to the rescue again and sourced 3 pairs reasonably priced.

Let me just say that unless you intend to move this machine about often then I wouldn't use any connectors. Wire direct from motors to control box to lessen any potential for poor connections and places for bad joints. These type of connectors are one of the prime trouble areas after newness as worn off and cables weight starts putting stress on connectors and pins. They where never designed or intended to be left permanently connected and are meant for short term quick release and connection for the music industry.

Have you bought the Zapp Kit yet.?

MikeyC38
20-07-2014, 02:54 AM
Yes about a month ago. Just trying to clear the decks of home diy jobs so I can have a clear run at this

Clive S
20-07-2014, 09:18 AM
What type of machine and specs are you thinking of building as you could possibly get better performance with a higher voltage power supply with those motors. .. Clive

LawcockLD
21-07-2014, 10:39 AM
For future reference, YY is pretty much the same as standard flex, CY has mechanical protection in the form of tinned copper braid and SY has mechanical protection in the form of steel braid. CY is rated low to medium protection and SY rated as medium to high protection. This is what I've always been led to believe, however I could have been misled.

MikeyC38
21-07-2014, 02:31 PM
What type of machine and specs are you thinking of building as you could possibly get better performance with a higher voltage power supply with those motors. .. Clive

Hi Clive. I will be driving 1605 ballscrews on all axes 1100 x 700 x 300 nominal flying gantry style router from alu plate and extrustions (see pic attached)
12861

irving2008
21-07-2014, 07:33 PM
For future reference, YY is pretty much the same as standard flex, CY has mechanical protection in the form of tinned copper braid and SY has mechanical protection in the form of steel braid. CY is rated low to medium protection and SY rated as medium to high protection. This is what I've always been led to believe, however I could have been misled.

You should only use CY for CNC equipment, especially the connections to moving parts, as the SY isn't flexible enough. Here's the official blurb, taken from http://www.bs6500.co.uk/

"Control Cables (http://www.elandcables.com/electricalcable/controlcable/)
YY Control Cable, SY Control Cable and CY Control Cable are flexible instrumentations cables – with a voltage rating of 300V/500V – designed for use as an interconnecting cable in signal and control equipment – for measuring, control or regulation.
http://www.bs6500.co.uk/img/YY%20Control%20Cable.jpg
YY Control Cable to BS6500 (http://www.elandcables.com/electricalcable/controlcable/cable38/yy-control-flexible-cable-to-bs6500.html)
YY Control Cable is a multi-core cable with class 5 stranded copper conductors, PVC insulation and a grey PVC sheath. YY Cable is also referred to as Unscreened, Flexible or Unshielded Control Cable and YY Control Flex. Projects in public buildings, such as offices, schools and hospitals will specify a LS0H version of YY Cable. Similar in construction to the YY PVC Control Flexible Cable, the LS0H YY Flex uses XLPE insulation and a grey LS0H sheath in place of PVC layers.

http://www.bs6500.co.uk/img/SY%20Control%20Cable.jpg
SY Control Cable to BS6500 (http://www.elandcables.com/electricalcable/controlcable/cable37/sy-control-flexible-cable-to-bs6500.html)
SY Flex is a built in much the same way as YY Control Cable – with class 5 flexible annealed plain copper conductors, PVC insulation and a transparent PVC sheath. SY Control Flexible Cable has the added benefit of a galvanised steel wire braid with PVC bedding for mechanical protection so it can cope with situations of medium to high stress. SY Cable is also known as Flexible or Braided Control Cable, and SY Control Flex.

http://www.bs6500.co.uk/img/CY%20Control%20Cable.jpg
CY Control Cable to BS6500 (http://www.elandcables.com/electricalcable/controlcable/cable36/cy-control-flexible-cable-to-bs6500.html)
CY Cable is a flexible multi-core cable with class 5 flexible plain copper conductors, PVC insulation, a plastic core wrap, a tinned copper wire braid and a grey PVC sheath. The construction of a LS0H CY Control Cable differs slightly – XLPE (Cross-Linked Polyethylene) insulation and a LS0H sheath are used in place of the PVC layers. CY Cable is also known as Instrumentation Cable, CY Flex, CY Control Flex, Robotic Cable, Copper Screened Control Cable, Shield Control Cable, Motor Cable, Multi-core Cable and Screened Cable."

LawcockLD
21-07-2014, 09:14 PM
Very informative, thank you very much.

Want2build1
21-07-2014, 09:50 PM
Let me just say that unless you intend to move this machine about often then I wouldn't use any connectors. Wire direct from motors to control box to lessen any potential for poor connections and places for bad joints. These type of connectors are one of the prime trouble areas after newness as worn off and cables weight starts putting stress on connectors and pins. They where never designed or intended to be left permanently connected and are meant for short term quick release and connection for the music industry.

Have you bought the Zapp Kit yet.?


I built my machine over 2 yrs ago .. been running 24/7/364 since then (ok , maybe 20 hrs a day :) ) ... the cable I used was salvaged hover mower cable 2 core ... two runs per motor ... connected with chocolate block type connectors .. have had no problems what so ever :)

this is what I started with .. skip dive build :)

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o238/RichAAC-UK/DSC01939.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/RichAAC-UK/media/DSC01939.jpg.html)

this is the running machine
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o238/RichAAC-UK/IMG00124.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/RichAAC-UK/media/IMG00124.jpg.html)

absloutely no problems what so ever with wiring connections :)

MikeyC38
21-07-2014, 10:17 PM
Hi irving2008

Thanks for the post on this. I have used 2.5mm2 4-core SY cable for connecting up my 2.2kw spindle to the VFD. Got an offcut from Premier Cables really cheaply so I will use them as my first port of call. They sell to large users and they said it's good for them to sell off the offcuts so it reduces the stock taking efforts!

- Mike

D-man
11-10-2014, 09:48 PM
Hey guys, great thread.... I'm now in the position to dismantle the temporary wiring and hard wire everything up. My question is, am I right in say that this is the correct wire to purchase?

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181415235457&alt=web

Clive S
12-10-2014, 12:53 AM
Hey guys, great thread.... I'm now in the position to dismantle the temporary wiring and hard wire everything up. My question is, am I right in say that this is the correct wire to purchase?

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181415235457&alt=webThat wire will be fine but it is too expensive If you search for it you can buy it for about 70p here is a link http://quickbit.co.uk/Cable/CY-Cable/CY-Cable-4-core/CY-Cable-0-75mm-4-core but this is not the best cable as Dean will point out when he sees this but I just can't find the link for the better quality cable at this time. I will have another look tomorrow
This is the correct link http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html ...Clive

T0rnado69
12-10-2014, 01:02 AM
is this the site (http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html)clive S ?

JAZZCNC
12-10-2014, 03:20 AM
is this the site (http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html)clive S ?

Yes that's the site and yes it's better than the Quickbit stuff.

D-man
12-10-2014, 09:09 AM
Really, i thought it was cheap.... maybe because everything else was so expensive haha

Cheers guys

D-man
12-10-2014, 09:12 AM
OK guys sorry maybe a silly question but what wirethickness do i need? im using Nema 34 all round apart from the Z

Clive S
12-10-2014, 09:21 AM
Glad you got sorted. I have been beaten to it by the night owls or (elves) I have added the link to my post as well. ..Clive

Clive S
12-10-2014, 09:24 AM
OK guys sorry maybe a silly question but what wirethickness do i need? im using Nema 34 all round apart from the ZIn that case I would use 1.5mm but do you really need nema 34 motors if so is your power supply big enough? ..Clive

D-man
12-10-2014, 09:38 AM
Thanks Clive, Yeah i need 34 all round as its a heavy gantry with future plans for it to put on a little more weight! This is the setup i had before i stripped my last machine down due to a huge bust up with my last boss. unfortunatly everything else was left :(

I decided to run R&P on the X with cncrouterparts pro drives

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13593&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13594&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13595&stc=1

D-man
12-10-2014, 10:03 AM
Clive would i be right in saying that the 2.5 would be ok to power the spindle? from the spindle to the VFD

Clive S
12-10-2014, 10:08 AM
Clive would i be right in saying that the 2.5 would be ok to power the spindle? from the spindle to the VFD 2.5mm will be fine I take it that it is a 2.2Kw spindle I personally would use 1.5mm but others might say not. ..Clive

D-man
12-10-2014, 10:13 AM
Yeah its the 2.2Kw might aswell bulk it up incase anything changes.

Clive S
12-10-2014, 10:31 AM
The trouble with 2.5mm is the connecting in to the plug on the spindle and 1.5mm will carry in the region of 18A which is more than enough. Good luck with the build. ..Clive

D-man
12-10-2014, 10:35 AM
Crap i forgot abut that, thanks for the heads up

JAZZCNC
12-10-2014, 11:12 AM
I'm with Clive 1.5mm is fine for spindle and much easier as you can use same cable used on motors even thou only 3 wires are used. Can use 4th wire for an earth if you like but personally I don't bother as never needed to.!

D-man
12-10-2014, 11:14 AM
Ive just ammended my order, thanks Jazz. Glad you replied actually i was looking for the review i think you done on the Leadshine motors, i cant remember if you said these were the way to go or not

JAZZCNC
12-10-2014, 11:33 AM
Ive just ammended my order, thanks Jazz. Glad you replied actually i was looking for the review i think you done on the Leadshine motors, i cant remember if you said these were the way to go or not

Yes they are great but they are expensive so it gets a close call between them and Servo's so do some shopping around if your thinking to use them.
Only thing they have in favor over Servo's IMO is that they are easy to use and setup with no messing around tuning drives etc.

Servo's will be better if you want higher feeds and torque.

That said if you use Normal steppers tuned correctly and running on good drives then you won't have any issues. Will say thou D-Man if your using 34 motors you want High powered AC voltage drives to get the best from them.! They cost more but also make build control box easier as you don't need a PSU for the drives so don't cost that much more in end.

D-man
12-10-2014, 11:38 AM
Without hijacking this thread i will leave it at that. if you dont mind could i pick your brains at some point soon about these?

JAZZCNC
12-10-2014, 11:54 AM
Without hijacking this thread i will leave it at that. if you dont mind could i pick your brains at some point soon about these?

Ye you have my email.

IanS1
12-10-2014, 12:26 PM
Without hijacking this thread, I'm considering the Leadshine Easy Servo system too. I'll post a separate thread at some point as I could do with some advice.