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amxen
07-09-2014, 05:40 PM
OK so iv been trying to set up my 6040 cnc and to be honest i can run it and i have cut some MDF with it, but im not 100% happy with it. The problem i have is if i set the motor tuning to the recommended setting the steppers jam. To prevent this i have to run them at less than half the recommended settings. Here is a video of whats happening maybe someone can help,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3I8Ji2NlD8&feature=youtu.be

hope some one can help

Clive S
07-09-2014, 06:27 PM
It would help if you gave some details about power supply, voltage, motor specs if you have them and driver.
That would be a start so people can make an informed opinion. ..Clive

EddyCurrent
07-09-2014, 08:20 PM
Also do you have Mach3 set to mm or inches ?

amxen
07-09-2014, 08:37 PM
yer sorry this is what i have

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-6040-COOL-SPINDLE-MOTOR-BALL-SCREWS-HARD-WOOD-TERRIFIC-VALUE-/190566922159?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Weldin g_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item2c5eac77af

and this is what in the box and the steppers

13327133281332913330

13331
i dont know if that helps.. i also have mach3 set to mm .

thanks for the help Mick

EddyCurrent
07-09-2014, 10:47 PM
It looks like you have this setup;

3163B Stepper Driver
set to;

Dynamic Current = 2.5A
1/8 Microstep
50% Standstill Current

57HD5401-14S/8 Stepper Motor

1.8 step angle
6.6V
3A
2.2 Ohms
8mH
17kg/cm
4 wire

24v 8.3A DC PSU
1605 ball screws


And that being so, the settings you have seem to be okay as far as I can make out.
However I did a conversion of the motor torque setting and 17 kg/cm = 1.6671305 Nm, this is not so good but as your video shows they are not under load.

I think you could reduce the microstepping and see if that helps, remember to change the Mach3 'steps per' to match.

5m pitch
1.8 deg motor
1/8 microstep (8)

360/1.8 = 200
200/5 = 40
8 * 40 = 320 steps per

------------------------------

Reduce microstepping to 2 by setting K1 ON, K2 OFF

5m pitch
1.8 deg motor
1/2 microstep (2)

360/1.8 = 200
200/5 = 40
2 * 40 = 80 steps per

amxen
08-09-2014, 12:14 AM
ok thanks ill try that. im rite in thinking at the moment they are both set to on. so all i need to do is switch k2 down on all three . Then change the steps per to 80 . I do have 3 of these i could try and see if its any better if that dose not work .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-Free-Schrittmotor-Wantai-Nema23-3PCS-Stepper-Motor-425oz-in-3A-Dual-Shaft-/221442213720?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&hash=item338efc0758

Clive S
08-09-2014, 08:46 AM
I do have 3 of these i could try and see if its any better if that dose not work .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-Free-Schrittmotor-Wantai-Nema23-3PCS-Stepper-Motor-425oz-in-3A-Dual-Shaft-/221442213720?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&hash=item338efc0758

The problem with these motors in the inductance is far too high. Check these out:- http://cnc4you.co.uk/resources/60BYGH301B.PDF and see the difference, the motors you have require a much higher voltage to drive them. I would be selling them and getting some with lower inductance. ..Clive

amxen
08-09-2014, 10:28 AM
The problem with these motors in the inductance is far too high. Check these out:- http://cnc4you.co.uk/resources/60BYGH301B.PDF and see the difference, the motors you have require a much higher voltage to drive them. I would be selling them and getting some with lower inductance. ..Clive

Now you have lost me with inductance. i got this kit awile ago with the plane to make my own cnc but ended up buying one . this is the kit i have spare

http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6104230003.html

but i was thinking i could just use the stepper motors if the ones im using arnt up to it. So is this not the case ?

Are you saying my power supply is not upto the job because if thats so could i not just swap it out for the 36v one i have ?

EddyCurrent
08-09-2014, 01:33 PM
On the picture I looked at it says on the terminals 24V, Gnd, so are you sure it can be powered by 36V ? if it can then it might be a good idea to try the other supply.

Clive S
08-09-2014, 01:44 PM
On the picture I looked at it says on the terminals 24V, Gnd, so are you sure it can be powered by 36V ? if it can then it might be a good idea to try the other supply.
I agree I have a feeling that those drivers are only OK up to 24V So unless you like magic smoke don't go higher. Clive

amxen
08-09-2014, 03:19 PM
Ok I'm lost now. Are you saying the board I'm using won't take 36v or the drivers that came with the kit won't take 36v

Clive S
08-09-2014, 03:47 PM
Ok I'm lost now. Are you saying the board I'm using won't take 36v or the drivers that came with the kit won't take 36v
Ok for the sake of clarity I take it you have two setups one purchased with the cnc and the other which is a set of drives and motors and a power supply is this correct. .Clive

amxen
08-09-2014, 03:54 PM
Ok I'm lost now. Are you saying the board I'm using won't take 36v or the drivers that came with the kit won't take 36v

amxen
08-09-2014, 04:32 PM
Yes that's correct
I was going to make my own so I got all the parts together to make one. Then I found I don't have the time to prototype parts. So I thought I would buy one. . The photos and video are of the one I got form eBay. The link to the aliexpress is a kit of electrical parts I have that for the one I was going to ( May still do) make. But I can use the parts on the other if I need to. Not sure about the sub Bob now thow as I have a dedicated pc with a PP. Hope that's abit more clear. Thanks mick

Clive S
08-09-2014, 04:49 PM
Mick In the absence of the master's on here (I am sure they will be around in a bit) let's see if you can get your original kit working. Frist alter the vel in Mach to say 1500mm/min and try that. (you have it set for about 2000mm/min).
.
The other kit you have bought is better but not good. You need motors with low inductance. The drives in that kit will accept up to about 48V which is better and you could use them with the power supply from the kit.

Don't get despondent there are plenty of people on here to help. ..Clive

amxen
08-09-2014, 05:51 PM
Hi Clive. I know the kit I have is not amazing but it's all I could aford at this time. I'm not too worried about my set up as I have it running ok tbh, just not at the seeds they say it will run.

At the moment I have it set like this 320 - 1000-100. And it runs ok just a bit slow. This is fine for now as I'm just learning. But if I try any higher like say 320-1200-150 then it starts to randomly jam. At 320-1500-200 or higher it will jam all the time. I'm guessing the recommend setting are a sales lie by the eBay seller and not what the electronics are up to.

But I would like to track the fault down so I don't junk what I don't have to when I want it to run faster.
I'M thankful for all and any help I get on here.

Clive S
08-09-2014, 06:42 PM
Mike Are you saying that your running at 1000mm/min on one axis and slower on the others? ..Clive

amxen
08-09-2014, 08:30 PM
No. X nY at 320-1000-100 and Z at 320-700-100

Clive S
08-09-2014, 11:19 PM
No. X nY at 320-1000-100 and Z at 320-700-100Mike Is that code for steps, vel,acel ?:fox: ..Clive

amxen
09-09-2014, 12:10 AM
Mike Is that code for steps, vel,acel ?:fox: ..Clive


yes Clive the manufacture instructions say to set it to

steps = 320
velocity = 2000
acceleration 200

but if i go anywhere near this it stalls

i have to set it to

steps =320
velocity 1000
acceleration 100

and at this i still get a bit of grinding sound some time.

Clive S
09-09-2014, 08:38 AM
Ok Mike Unless you change the dip switch setting (on the driver) for the micro steps you don't need to touch that.
That setting is to set up the machine so that when you tell the machine move say 50mm it actually moves 50mm.
.
I would now move the steps to 1/4 which would be 160 by setting K1 and K2 (look the switch position up in the manual) on the driver and then change the Mach3 steps from 320 to 160. (re read EddyCurrent post #5).
.
See how it runs then. Just change one thing at a time. When you say grinding noise, are you running the motors on or off the machine? ..Clive

mekanik
09-09-2014, 10:16 AM
Hi Guys
I have been watching this thread and can offer no advise regarding the electronics/drive side, but would it not be prudent to disconnect the the ball screws and check to see if the axis are moving freely.
Just a thought.
Mike

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 11:32 AM
I would now move the steps to 1/4 which would be 160 by setting K1 and K2 (look the switch position up in the manual) on the driver and then change the Mach3 steps from 320 to 160. (re read EddyCurrent post #5).

I would have said set it to 4 myself but looking at the photo the options seemed to be 1,2,8,16 unless I've read that incorrectly.


Hi Guys
I have been watching this thread and can offer no advise regarding the electronics/drive side, but would it not be prudent to disconnect the the ball screws and check to see if the axis are moving freely.
Just a thought.
Mike

In the video the motor was removed from the machine and just lying on the bench

amxen
09-09-2014, 12:27 PM
I don't have a manual for this board. And I can't find one on line. So I'm not sure where. To set the switches. I'm guessing that k1 and k2 can be on or off. And at the moment they are both set to on? So I need to change this.
if I was to replace this board what would you go for?

amxen
09-09-2014, 12:34 PM
All axis run free with the strippers removed with strippers removed

amxen
09-09-2014, 12:54 PM
I could maybe use the stepper drivers I have and get a new PP based BOB. Or maybe replace the all in one board with a new all in one board. But what would you go for in each scenario

amxen
09-09-2014, 01:14 PM
I could maybe use the stepper drivers I have and get a new PP based BOB. Or maybe replace the all in one board with a new all in one board. But what would you go for in each scenario

Clive S
09-09-2014, 01:41 PM
I don't have a manual for this board. And I can't find one on line. So I'm not sure where. To set the switches. I'm guessing that k1 and k2 can be on or off. And at the moment they are both set to on? So I need to change this.
if I was to replace this board what would you go for?Mike Is this the board http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/M172-JP-3136B-stepper-motor-driver-TB6560-3-axis-for-CNC-engraving-machine-with-0-10V/908764_572788008.html what info do you have regarding the settings for the switches K1 and K2 As Eddy says you might have to try half step but we need the settings for the switches first.

You can of course use your other drives but Keep trying this one first. I am having to earn a crust this afternoon but will get back later The supplier must have given you some sort of instruction to set micro settings. ..Clive

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 01:54 PM
Clive, picture 2 here shows the settings.

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7871-On-going-6040-problems?p=61513#post61513

I see from your link Clive that K3 and K4 refer to 'buffering', I was thinking it meant standstill current due to the percentage symbol

amxen
09-09-2014, 01:54 PM
I'm pretty sure I got nothing regarding the micro settings. I got one sheet of paper showing how to put the parts together that was unreadable.

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 02:18 PM
I'm pretty sure I got nothing regarding the micro settings. I got one sheet of paper showing how to put the parts together that was unreadable.

So are you okay with what microstepping actually does ?

amxen
09-09-2014, 02:46 PM
Is it how many steps it takes the stepper to do 1 revolution of the spindle?

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 03:11 PM
Is it how many steps it takes the stepper to do 1 revolution of the spindle?

Yes, so a setting of 1 will give you the maximum torque, any higher will give you less torque and the reduction can be dramatic. The downside is you will loose accuracy because the smallest increment of the tool is determined by this value. However this is only true up to a point, the greater stability of the motor means there would be fewer lost steps due to the higher torque so a lower setting may increase accuracy, this sounds like it could be the case with your machine and I think you should set the microstepping to the lowest value that is acceptable to you.
If you set it to 1 then the stepper would have 200 steps per revolution, with a ball screw of 5mm pitch the smallest increment would be 5/200 = 0.025mm
It sounds small but if you zoomed in on diagonal cuts it would give you a 'staircase' effect.

Just remember to also set the appropriate 'steps per' in Mach3 so it moves the correct distance.

amxen
09-09-2014, 03:55 PM
Is it how many steps it takes the stepper to do 1 revolution of the spindle?

amxen
09-09-2014, 04:59 PM
And this is set on k1 and k2. I'm not sure as I'm not at home but is that a 2 or 3 position switch on the board. ?

I'm going to guess it is a 2 position switch and it is either ON or OFF and you can have a combination of on-on, on-off, or off-on. And this will determine what micro steps it runs at?

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 05:20 PM
Correct, there is a table printed on the PCB showing the options.

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 05:21 PM
Is it how many steps it takes the stepper to do 1 revolution of the spindle?

It would be with a 1 to 1 relationship but if you had pulleys for example with different diameters, then the ratio of those diameters would come into the equation.

amxen
09-09-2014, 06:29 PM
yes it looks like the board has setting of 16.8.2.1 so ill try it set to 2 see if that helps. ill let you know. iv told the seller im not happy with and i would like him to exchange the controller for something thats proven to work or i will open a paypal dispute. i will let you know how i get on

amxen
09-09-2014, 07:39 PM
ok here are my findings for today. I changed the switch settings to 2 in the mico stepping (K1 n K2) and the steps per to 80. The motor runs smooth when not attached to the cnc (good i thought sorted ). But as soon as i attach it back to the cnc the motor jams more than before. It has no torque at all i can put my hand on it and it jams. it has not got the power to traverse the axis. i put it back to how it was.

So my thoughts are that the steppers motors are under powered.

But the question

1 will the stepper motors take more power

2 will this board give them more power

3 do i need to replace just the board,? should i get a new all in one board or use the drivers i have from the other kit and just get a BOB that will run these drivers,

4 will the stepper motors from the other kit i have be ok for me to use ?


so many questions

thanks for all the help btw

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 08:42 PM
Wait, give this a go first, if the velocity / accel in Mach3 is set too high the motor will stall, put the setting back to 2, fit the motor to the machine and reduce the velocity and acceleration until you get good torque.
Even though you reduced the velocity it could well be faster than previous.


Here's a quote from another forum;

"The other day I did switch from 1/10th step to 1/2 step. Seems to operate about the same overall - only MUCH faster. That first rapid move at 180 ipm was a bit shocking. I ended up at 108 ipm - the motors quit stalling then. Probably had to do with the 20 tpi lead screws. The mill runs great! I was slotting ).050" deep with a 3/16 end mill in aluminum at at 18 ipm and the machine seemed happy as can be. And a 0.015" climb cut finish pass left an awesome surface finish. Fun stuff!"

amxen
09-09-2014, 09:17 PM
ok just been down the the cave to try again. I have set things like this K1 n K2 set back to 2 again. i set the setting to

steps per = 80
velocity = 1400
acceleration = 150

The Torque is a lot better set like this . I can run with out stalling and it seems faster than before.
I haven't cut anything yet with it like this but i tried to stall the motor by hand and i can but it takes a lot of force to do so.

what is the difference between velocity and acceleration ?


Any way it seems we are getting some where. I will try cutting something tomorrow and see how we get on.

In the long term i think upgrade is in order at some point.
I would like to say thanks for sticking with me on this. I seem to be learning so much so fast. I should be used to that being a heating engineer . All the help has been much appreciated

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 09:43 PM
Velocity is just the maximum speed your machine can work at, acceleration is the rate of change from one speed to another, just like your car really.

Also there is this from the Mach3 documentation;

"If you canít seem to get the motors to run smoothly there are a few things to check, first the easy one: Some motor drives need to have a longer step pulse and this can be set by changing the Step Pulse setting. "

I've tried a few values here for my own machine but found no difference I could detect but I'm using digital drivers, it might though make a difference on your machine.

amxen
09-09-2014, 09:57 PM
It is strange that mach3 shows 1-5 us in step pulse but the instructions say set it to 10. so i have it set at 10. i will look at that tomorrow and see if it make much deference.

Ever other forum i read say change the board to a Gecko G540. wondering if its worth it and with it take the 4 wire steppers as i have 6 of them now haha

HOLD on just looked at my video again and noticed my step pulse was set at 2. but the instructions say it needs to be set at 10 . I just found a post that said "if the step pulse is too short the motors don't respond at high step speeds" So im guessing that 2 is a short pules ?

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 10:08 PM
I think it's the same as putting extensions onto your house, it gives you bigger and better but if you're not carefull you can exceed the local house price ceiling. In other words you can upgrade and add better parts but the total cost might come to more than it's worth and you'd have been better starting from scratch or selling what you have and move to a different but better machine.

As the saying goes, "You can't polish a turd" or for those of a sensitive nature, "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear"

EddyCurrent
09-09-2014, 10:14 PM
HOLD on just looked at my video again and noticed my step pulse was set at 2.

Good observation, more things to try !. Make a note of what you change and the result, so you can look back and determine the best settings.
Also I think it's fair to say most people set their microstep to 1/8 so aim for that but if the machine can't manage then reduce it like you did.

Clive S
09-09-2014, 10:30 PM
Mike Glad to hear you now have some movement and are getting there. If you can sell your other kit back on EBay I would because you can get much better motors and drives than those you have. Or at least sell the motors and look at the ones from the link I posted. Good luck. ..Clive

amxen
09-09-2014, 10:36 PM
OK last testing for this evening . I just wend down and changed it all back to how it was and then changed the step pulse to 15 and the dir pulse to 10 . Dont know why them numbers i just thought i would see what happens. I now have it set like this and it seem not to be stalling

steps per = 320
velocity = 1700
acceleration = 160
step pulse 15
dir pulse 10

i have no idea about the step and dir pulse but it seems not to be stalling like this . and i cant stall the motors by hand .
I did try it faster (1800) but it did start stalling so i wound it back down.

gonna try cutting some mdf tomorrow. This was the first thing i cut when i got it just to test it 13354

JAZZCNC
10-09-2014, 12:58 AM
Ok well I think you main problem is coming from the BOB and the fact it will have slow opto isolators. This is why your getting better results using higher step pulse.
Try running in Sherline mode and see how it goes because all thou your set at 10 -15 your not getting that as Mach in normal mode doesn't go that high.? Sherline mode gives you wider step pulse so gives the opto's more time to work. You'll find it in port's n pins on first page near Kernal speed. You'll have to restart Mach3 and retune motors.

To be honest you have several issues here all of which can only be cured with a bullet or a mallet.!! . . . . Crap celectronics give crap results.

With the high inductance motors you have and only 24Vdc running rubbish drives thru a piss poor BOB then in all fairness your near the end of what should be expected. Sell the lot and buy decent drives. Don't go for the G540 as there are better options for less money and the Gecko is restricted to 3A motors to use it's full capabiltys.
Your main issue with slow speed is lack of volts but don't go giving the drives more because you'll fry them. Max they will stand is 36V and they won;t like that for long before letting out magic smoke plus 36v isn't much better than 24V with these motors and you'll need 50V drive running 44-46V to get any decent speed from them.

Now with the stalling and micro stepping then after the short pulse width problem then resonance is the next issue you'll be encountering. Resonance affects motors in differant ways and is often worse when sat on the bench.
Also the micro stepping plays it's part here as well. Setting the Micro steps too near to full Step 1-1 often makes resonance worse so stalls more. Setting higher makes the motors run smoother so less stalling but this comes at the cost of many more pulses required which in your case makes things worse because your Rubbish BOB can't keep up as it is.!!. . . So it's a double edge sword I'm afraid.!! . . . Fubar'd in both cases.!!. . . Time to get Timmy out.!!

This is why decent electronics and the quality of the pulses being sent to the drives/motors is so very important.

amxen
10-09-2014, 08:12 AM
Thanks for that information Jazz . When i do upgrade the electronics what BoB would you go for ?


The wonderful world of cnc, I only wonted to cut stuff and ended up being an electrical engineer

EddyCurrent
10-09-2014, 09:08 AM
Some reading,

http://microsoftwindowsblogger.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/losing-steps-in-mach3-kernel-speed.html

JAZZCNC
10-09-2014, 12:52 PM
Thanks for that information Jazz . When i do upgrade the electronics what BoB would you go for ?

Well at the cheap end then I'd look at Roy's boards at DIYCNC they are ok for the money and I've used many of the opto boards. At the other end then and by far the best BOB on market for the money is the PMDX126 but this can only be bought direct from PMDX. It cost's much more but there's a reason, It's quality.

If you want good quality ALL-in ONE board with Digital drives and spindle speed and BOB all built in then you want the Lead shine MX3660 from Zapp http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/electrical-products/stepper-drivers/dm-series-stepper-drivers-step-direction/mx660-three-axis-digital-microstepping-driver.html

Though it's an all in one board the drives can be replaced individual if one is damaged.
The drives allow upto 6A motors run at 60Vdc thou in real use you'd run around 50-55Vdc for a safety margin. The drives are Digital so very good at handling resonance and give very smooth movement compared to cheap analog drives with advanced features to help with handling pulse smoothing etc. They have standard current reduction at stand still etc to control motor heating but in general they run the motors much cooler because of the way the handle current.

No BOB required it's built in. Also Comes with 10V Analog spindle speed controller built in so can control spindle from control software or G-code.

This Digital Combo board knocks the socks off Gecko G-540 IMO and yes I have used G540 infact I have one in front of me now, because it can be used with much wider range of motors due to being 6A and the extra volts allow more speed !! If needed.!! . . . but the only draw back is it's only 3 axis not 4 like the gecko.

This is a good Combo board that will take with you to another larger build if required and there's virtually nothing to setting it up, close to plug n play as it gets.

amxen
10-09-2014, 10:47 PM
Thanks for that Jazz . it seem to be running well now. with the changes i made yesterday. happy days for now.

Well im thinking i will have to upgrade it at some point going by most of the posts about them.

So i have been looking at this http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/system45.html and was thinking i have this kit i got from aliexpress http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6104230003.html ( was gonna make my own cnc ) and was thinking would this diycnc board be ok to run these stepper motors and utilize the 36a power supply from this kit.

Clive S
10-09-2014, 11:22 PM
Thanks for that Jazz . it seem to be running well now. with the changes i made yesterday. happy days for now.

Well im thinking i will have to upgrade it at some point going by most of the posts about them.

So i have been looking at this http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/system45.html and was thinking i have this kit i got from aliexpress http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6104230003.html ( was gonna make my own cnc ) and was thinking would this diycnc board be ok to run these stepper motors and utilize the 36a power supply from this kit.Mike The kit you are referring to will still only take 40V psu so yes it will take the 36V psu you have but you are still throwing good money after bad. To run the motors you have you will need at least 50V psu. If you are up and running now how about getting some experience with the machine and cutting a few parts and then you have a better idea what you really want.
.
I am not trying to put you off, the trouble is these kits that you have seen are always a compromise and are put together with a mismatch of bits and you can do a lot better with sourcing the parts separately. As have been said many time on the forum a good place to buy the motors is cnc4you or Zapp and the drivers from aliexpress. ..Clive

amxen
10-09-2014, 11:34 PM
Im trying to understand whats wrong with the stepper motors Clive. Is it that they are trash or that they need more power to run them than i have or need. Are they for a bigger set up. Or just junk

Thanks mick

JAZZCNC
11-09-2014, 12:26 AM
Ok well I'd forget Roy's System 45 as it's no better than that kit from Ali express.

First the Aliexpress Kit is a USBCNC Motion control card with BOB combined. This means you'll have to use the USBCNC control software not Mach3. This is not a problem just making you aware.
The fact it's Motion control card will take away most of your Pulse issues in one go.

Regards the Motors then those listed are 4 wire but it doesn't say if they are series wound or parallel, I'd guess at series given the amps and inductance. The more common 8 wire Hybrid motors can be wired either way but with 4 wire your stuck to what the manufacturer winds them.
Being series wound means they require much more volts to get any resonable speed from them. Motors wired in series give higher torque at slower speeds but quickly run out as the RPM's rise. This is why the 36Vdc isn't really man enough for these motors to expect any speed from them.

The Kit drives can take upto 50Vdc but again in practise you need a safety margin. The reason you need a safety margin is that steppers effectively become dynamos when de-accelerating and this energy gets passed back to the drives and is known as back EMF. So if you run at the drives Max voltage you will damage them.
For this reason running lower voltage is recommended. How much lower does depend slightly on the power supply type. Regulated Linear type supplies need to be run at lower volts than toroidal type supplies due to how they handle returning current. It's for this reason why Unregulated supplies are prefered and in particular toroidal transformer type due to the capacitors better handling returning power. Toroid supplies can be run closer to drives limit.

The drives in this kit are 50Vdc max so I'd run them around 42-44Vdc with an Unregulated supply. This will give the motors that bit more voltage required to cover the higher inductance. Still not ideal but better. 70vdc would be much more suitable but your drives wouldn't be too impressed. . Lol

Now personally I'd just think about changing the PSU for toridial supply which are very easy to build or can be bought and run the drives at 44Vdc. This will get you going at Ok speeds and will be good for learning without costing a fortune.

Clive S
11-09-2014, 08:54 AM
Im trying to understand whats wrong with the stepper motors Clive. Is it that they are trash or that they need more power to run them than i have or need. Are they for a bigger set up. Or just junk

Thanks mickMike No they are not trash, just not suited to the power supply and drives these motors have inductance of about 7mH, per phase now the ones that I use and a lot of others are these:-http://cnc4you.co.uk/resources/60BYGH301B.PDF which have an inductance of 3.2mH (less than half) I run these at 68V. As Jazz has said that kit has its own software and not Mach3.
If it is your intention to build another machine in the future it might be worth it to sell your kit and start again. But first have a go at machining and having fun making a few parts with the 6040.
If you really want to change the drives in the 6040 for the one's in the kit then either get a new power supply linear type or build one (if you are confident with mains voltage).
Either way we can try and help you through this learning curve. ..Clive

amxen
11-09-2014, 09:58 AM
Hi Clive. We'll I have reconstituted someold pc power ssupply's that I use to run my 12v battery charger this give me around 20a. Good for a cheep bench 12v supply. They have the added advantage of having 5v and 3v if I need them. But that's as much as I have done. I know my way around a multimeter thow as I'm a heating breakdown engineer. I will have a look on YouTube and see if I can find a video on building a linear supply that will give me what I need. Thanks for all the input.

Clive S
11-09-2014, 11:00 AM
Hi Clive. We'll I have reconstituted someold pc power ssupply's that I use to run my 12v battery charger this give me around 20a. Good for a cheep bench 12v supply. They have the added advantage of having 5v and 3v if I need them. But that's as much as I have done. I know my way around a multimeter thow as I'm a heating breakdown engineer. I will have a look on YouTube and see if I can find a video on building a linear supply that will give me what I need. Thanks for all the input.You just need a few parts:
You (http://www.rapidonline.com/You) can get them from http://www.rapidonline.com/ say 2 of these http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/4700uf-100v-85deg-Hc-Snap-in-Capacitor-11-3121and one of these http://www.rapidonline.com/kbpc5006-bridge-rectifier-50a-600v-47-1012and a transformer like this http://www.rapidonline.com/vigortronix-toroidal-transformer-625va-0-50v-0-50v-88-3844 but to suite your voltage. Remember to multiply the output of the transformer by about 1.4 to get to the DC voltage you require. ..Clive13363

EddyCurrent
11-09-2014, 11:06 AM
I'd like to know this, with the settings now at their optimum does the machine perform adequately. ? i.e. within it's designed capability.

amxen
11-09-2014, 12:06 PM
Eddy. I'm not sure if If it's running at its designed optimum as I have not had time to test it. I ran some code to cut a sign from 6mm mdf last night. Like the photo of the one I have posted here before. It seemed to not miss any steps it cut very clean and quite fast. The sign was about 10inch long and 5inch tall. It had no problems and took about 20 mins, but I only have the plunge set at 1mm so it took 7 trips to complete the final cut out. but that was planed and expected. If you let to know who I should test its performance I will gladly carry that out for you.

amxen
11-09-2014, 12:29 PM
Eddy. I'm not sure if If it's running at its designed optimum as I have not had time to test it. I ran some code to cut a sign from 6mm mdf last night. Like the photo of the one I have posted here before. It seemed to not miss any steps it cut very clean and quite fast. The sign was about 10inch long and 5inch tall. It had no problems and took about 20 mins, but I only have the plunge set at 1mm so it took 7 trips to complete the final cut out. but that was planed and expected. If you let to know who I should test its performance I will gladly carry that out for you.

EddyCurrent
11-09-2014, 02:55 PM
I don't know what it's designed to do but it sounds like you are not far away, why not just use the machine as it is until you find your requirements have outgrown it.

JAZZCNC
11-09-2014, 03:56 PM
It seemed to not miss any steps it cut very clean and quite fast. The sign was about 10inch long and 5inch tall. It had no problems and took about 20 mins, but I only have the plunge set at 1mm so it took 7 trips to complete the final cut out.

To be honest you haven't really defined if the machine is running correctly because your not actually cutting at correct feed rates. 1mm DOC in MDF is hardly a challenge or test. I suspect that if you tried to cut MDF at the correct feeds/speeds/doc then you may get very differant story.

With a Shallow DOC then you really should be running high feeds rates or very low spindle speeds to give any decent tool life. Your setup 99.99% sure won't run the correct feed rates for 1mm DOC without stalling motors and if you increase DOC then chances are it will struggle if it's still not setup correctly. Spindle speeds are about the only thing your in control of and this alone isn't enough.

With MDF then you should be able to cut much deeper and still maintain decent feedrate even with these types of machine. Minimum DOC should be 50% tool diameter and 100% + is common in MDF with carbide tooling. Can't say on feed as don't know what you cut this at but I suspect it will be well short of what it should be.? Minimum feed in MDF would be 2000mm/min and thats with lot deeper DOC IE: 3mm cutter = 6mm or more.!

So just because your cutting doesn't mean the machines working OK. Tool life is something you need to consider and cutting like this will drasticly shorten tool life, esp in MDF. Sharpness of the tool greatly affects finish quality so you very quickly lose finish quality when cutting with wrong feeds/speeds/DOC so it really does pay to spend some time and set the machine up correctly.

amxen
11-09-2014, 06:08 PM
Interesting. The supplier is offering a partial refund on the machine. As I told them I was going to put a PayPal claim in . If they do I will up grade what's I need to with the cash they give me back

amxen
22-09-2014, 10:25 AM
ok so im still having problems with this thing jamming . So i put a paypal claim in and this is what i got back from paypal

To continue with our investigation, we need documentation to support your
claim that the item is damaged or significantly not as described.

Please obtain a document from an unbiased third-party, such as a dealer,
repair shop, appraiser, or another individual or organisation that’s
qualified in the area of the item in question (other than yourself), which
details the extent of the damage or clearly explains how the item received
significantly differs from the item that was advertised.

This document must be on a letterhead that includes the name, address, and
phone number of the individual, business, or organisation so that we may
contact them if necessary.

If applicable, the document should include a serial number and description
of the item and the cost required to complete any necessary repairs.

You can upload this document through your PayPal account. Here’s how:


How an i gonna do that i dont know any one that fixes cnc machines and i cant really post it to some one now can i ?