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T0rnado69
26-10-2014, 01:31 AM
hi am,
im looking at getting an index tool for the lathe.

but dont know what one would be best to get.

im currently using brazed TCT tools, and its a pain having to put them
in for sharperning and they do a week turn around, plus the cost and
travel cost to drop them off and collect them a week later.

so my thought is getting an indexing tool means i can change the tip when needed.
and looking at the tips is it correct you can turn them around and use other end.
and also some have three points.


so has anyone got any pointers on best one to get and why..

cheers all

mekanik
26-10-2014, 10:00 AM
Hi
Chronos have a pretty good selection.
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=lathe%20index%20tool&PN=glanze_lathe_tools.html#aCG214
I was fortunate enough to aquire a good selection of the triangular tips when i worked as a Turner and made two holders to suit my Elliot Emcomat years ago, but to be honest i hardly use them and tend to stick with HSS 10mm square bits, you obviously are doing serious work so it's probably worth the investment, tips can be a bit pricey but convenience is priceless.
Mike

Neale
26-10-2014, 10:33 AM
JB Cutting Tools sell some decent looking lathe tools and tips in various sizes. Worth a look. HSS has the advantage of being easy to touch up yourself but the indexable tips are nice to use.

irving2008
26-10-2014, 05:58 PM
Or get a bench grinder and learn to sharpen them yourself ;)

magicniner
26-10-2014, 06:58 PM
Green stones on a bench grinder don't produce the edge ideal finish on a carbide cutter but I did it this way for a couple of years, manually finishing tips with a diamond hone.
I moved on to indexed cutters quite some time ago, there's still a place for HSS but with the range of carbide inserts available the argument against them is getting thinner. Being able to index a tip part way through a job and not lose the job zero on your DRO is worth a lot if you don't have time to burn,
-
Nick

jimbo_cnc
26-10-2014, 08:24 PM
I bought my first set of lathe tools a couple of weeks ago. Got a single 12mm indexable tool for 18 on eBay. And a set of 7 with parting tool for 40 on Aliexpress, arrived in 6days even though it estmated 4weeks delivery.

Then found some bargain kennametal tips o ebay. Got a standard grade and a stainless steel grade, both at 7.99 for box of 5 delivered.

m_c
26-10-2014, 10:55 PM
For smaller lathes, you can't really go wrong with CC_T insert holders, as the insert choice and cutting angles are a good compromise. The insert size is upto you, however if you're getting a boring bar, it's worth going for the smaller inserts, as it reduces the number of insert sizes/types you need to have.
A SCLCR holder is what you'll most likely be looking for, as it's the most versatile in terms of turning/facing.

I've personally never bothered with triangular inserts other than for threading, as they're not as versatile, and in 12mm shank sizes you're limited to size 11 inserts, which aren't as common.

Have a look at http://www.shop-apt.co.uk/lathe-turning-tools-apt.html as it shows the directions that the tools/inserts are designed to be used. You can use them in other directions, but it's not recommended.
(and if you're looking for insert parting tools, look at the grooving section, as APT's grooving/multi direction WDN insert tools are pretty good)

T0rnado69
27-10-2014, 02:07 AM
Hi
Chronos have a pretty good selection.

yer ive used chronos before, and i see they do a Economy Set of 5
like ebay do for 28
but what i didnt want to do is jump at something and reget buying it.
ild prefer to buy two for the same price that are much better quality, if you see what i mean.


JB Cutting Tools sell some decent looking lathe tools and tips in various sizes.
cheers i will do a search on them.

Or get a bench grinder and learn to sharpen them yourself ;)
ive got three and one with green stone, but without a rest table and slide for angles its not so easy to keep the correct angle for sharpening them.


Green stones on a bench grinder don't produce the edge ideal finish on a carbide cutter
i did try and sharpen one, but it didnt seem to work, like how a professonal sharpening place do them.
why i want to go over to index tool and changable bits.

I bought my first set of lathe tools a couple of weeks ago. Got a single 12mm indexable tool for 18 on eBay. And a set of 7 with parting tool for 40 on Aliexpress, arrived in 6days even though it estmated 4weeks delivery.
Then found some bargain kennametal tips o ebay. Got a standard grade and a stainless steel grade, both at 7.99 for box of 5 delivered.
nice, i already have a parting tool that came in a kit with knurling tools.
and a fair few TCT cutters
boring bar, Radius cutter, internal and external thread
and a few left and right ones.


For smaller lathes, you can't really go wrong with CC_T insert holders, as the insert choice and cutting angles are a good compromise.
A SCLCR holder is what you'll most likely be looking for, as it's the most versatile in terms of turning/facing.
Have a look at http://www.shop-apt.co.uk/lathe-turning-tools-apt.html as it shows the directions that the tools/inserts are designed to be used. You can use them in other directions, but it's not recommended.
(and if you're looking for insert parting tools, look at the grooving section, as APT's grooving/multi direction WDN insert tools are pretty good)
cheers m_c very helpful.....

T0rnado69
14-12-2014, 11:41 PM
well im getting a little confused, as i see there is.


SCLCR
DCMT
CCMT


whats the difference between them all..

im using the quick change toolpost and it will take 12mm tools, if thats any help.


For smaller lathes, you can't really go wrong with CC_T insert holders, as the insert choice and cutting angles are a good compromise. The insert size is upto you, however if you're getting a boring bar, it's worth going for the smaller inserts, as it reduces the number of insert sizes/types you need to have.


i like the idea of that, even better if one size tip fits all the holders.

m_c
15-12-2014, 12:04 AM
DCMT and CCMT are insert designations, with C being a 80deg diamond and D being a 55deg diamond.
This link is a good guide for what all the letters mean - https://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
.
SCLCR is a toolholder designation, that takes CC_T inserts.
Carbide depot also has this page explaining the individual digits - https://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-th-d.htm however the additional sizes on that chart are for imperial not metric.

T0rnado69
15-12-2014, 01:24 PM
right i see.
cheers for that m_c, very understanding.

so would it be best to get a kit, like this (http://chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/info_777104_.html)

or buy them singly when needed etc...

Neale
15-12-2014, 02:52 PM
Well, it all depends on what you want to do!

This is definitely not a recommendation, but as it happens, I have just ordered the following. As a bit of background (so you know just how reliable or not my comments are...), I've been a model engineer (that's important - people from an industrial background often have different views) for many years, and I've recently bought a second, much larger, lathe. Previously I used a Myford which took 8mm shank tools but they look a bit small in the new machine. So I've gone for 12mm shank, and I've chosen:

SCLCR + SCLCL right- and left-hand general purpose tools. These take the almost-square CCMT inserts, using the smaller 80deg angle. These are much stronger and less likely to chip than the DCMT inserts which have a 55deg angle. I have a tool which takes the DCMT but I prefer to use this for finer and finishing work where it's less likely to get damaged. I expect the SCLCR to be my main workhorse turning tool as it can turn and face without adjustment but the SCLCL will be useful for those odd "back edge of a shoulder" operations.

SCBCR RH rough turning tool. This one uses the CCMT inserts, but the 100deg angle (so can use the other corners of inserts previously used/worn/chipped from the other tools). Rough external turning, but won't work up to a shoulder.

I'm also getting the external threading tool which takes 16ER inserts, both 55deg and 60deg as I need imperial and metric threads. I also use a parting tool which takes GTN-2 inserts.

These are all external cutting tools as I have boring bars - all HSS except for some very small home-made from hardened silver steel for tiny holes - and I haven't gone to carbide insert versions of these yet. I haven't felt so much of a need for them. My biggest boring bar came with the "new" lathe and is something like 1" dia and about 12" long with a HSS tool. I don't expect to need it very often...

For what it's worth, I have ordered from JB Cutting Tools, as I have bought from them face-to-face at exhibitions and they seem to know what they are talking about (and their web site has a neat little set of pictures showing what each type of tool can do).

I still have some reservations about these carbide inserts as they can chip the tip very easily if mis-used. I'm hoping that the 80deg tips will be much stronger than the 55deg tips I have used to date. However, when they are working, they work extremely well, and can leave a good finish even from fairly heavy cuts.

What lathe are you using these on?

T0rnado69
18-12-2014, 11:54 PM
hi neale thanks for the reply.
sorry for late reply, had some HDD problems to deal with.
and yesturday i sat here and typed out a long reply....
then went to add a photo that took up the whole browser page.
had to back space out of it only to lose everything i had type...
i wasnt amused with that so turned pc off.

well i do facing and turning.
external threading (did buy an internal one but not used yet)
knurling and parting.
radius cutter
and cant forget the boring bar

the lathe i had was the clarke cl500m but the column was slightly damaged. chipped and paint missing.and they offered me 10 off next order
or replace the column. LOL
so i took the dearer route for them :) replace the column.

well 3 months later the replacement column arrive with them damaged.
so they ordered another. same happened again.
in the end they decided to send my column to a body repair place
to get it filled and sanded and painted.

by this time my 12 months warranty ran out.
and i couldnt use it as a lathe due to the top being open where the column goes.
so they took it back and gave me a refund.

and let me take the cl430 at vat free price.
and also the large mill CMD1225D at vat free price
and some free mill accessories for my troubles.

well the issue i have is having to wait a week for my local sharpening place
to sharpen stuff.
so i have to drive 6miles to where they are located on A127 (southend bound)
to drop the stuff off and go back a week later to get it.
so the cost of fuel, my time and cost for sharpening, is going to be much higher then a replacement tip would be. plus i wouldn't have to wait.

and if i bought the tips in boxes of ten, then works out even cheaper.
i know you have the initial outlay for the tool holders etc.
but your get that back in the end.

well i got the 6 piece turning set for the cl430
i also got the 38piece one for the smaller cl300 lathe.
i know they only 6mm bits but thought they would be handy in emergency :)
and so they have been.. used all the right hand green ones.
got a knurling and parting kit from chronos i think it was.
and a few others off ebay ( radius, internal threading )

cheers stuart

T0rnado69
21-12-2014, 03:21 AM
well after going throu all the holders that come in this set. (http://chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/info_777104_.html)
1. Turning & facing at 90' with 95' approach RH style
2. Turning & facing at 90' with 95' approach LH style
3. Only turning with 75' approach utilising 100' unused RH cutting corners
4. Only through facing with 75' approach utilising 100' LH unused cutting corners
5. 50' Chamfer on both LH & RH side
6. 45' Chamfer on RH side and 55' on LH side
7. Boring & facing counterbore @ 90 'with 95 'approach for minimum bore size dia of 9.5mm

i would use 1 proberly more then 2, but would still use both.
i dont think i can see me using 3 and 4. and if i did, proberly once in a blue moon ?
5 and 6 i would use but proberly not as much as 1 and 2.
and 7 i would use.

but i was thinking on buying 1 and 2 in a kit.
then maybe 7 on its own but the throu coolant one ?
anyway tried them over the standard boring bars.
as for 5 and 6 i could use the TCT ones i have for now then get them in indexables when i can.
and then look at getting the internal and external threading holders...