View Full Version : Please help with a few questions

18-02-2015, 10:26 AM
Hi guys,

I am conducting a research into the metalworking industry, specifically into carbide cutting tools.
I would really appreciate it if you could help me understand a few things:

1. There are 3 largest manufacturers for carbide cutting tools: Sandvik, Iscar and Kennametal. Yet, they only have about 50% of the global market combined. I know there are many other smaller carbide cutting tools makers.
My question is what would be the reasons for someone to buy from any smaller carbide cutting tools manufacturer and not from one of the top 3?

2. It seems that there are 4 primary categories to CNC manufacturers:
- Product producing companies
- Workpiece producing companies (contract/job shops)
- Tooling producing companies
- Prototype producing companies
My questions here are:

Most companies are either product or workpiece producers. Which category is larger and is it by far or close in size? Do most largest aerospace, automotive and the like, manufacturers do all their CNC in house? Do they contract out small or large parts of it?
What are the main differences between a prototype producer and a workpiece producer?
What are the approximate (rough estimate) market shares of each of the categories?

3. The carbide metal cutting tools is considered highly fragmented, with many niches.
What niches are there, at least that you are familiar with?
I am trying to get some idea as to why and how this market is fragmented.

4.There is a category of premium brands (like sandvik and iscar) and a category called mid market.
Who uses mid market brands and equipment?
Are those almost exclusively developing countries?
What are the faults in the mid market cutting tools compared to the premium brands?
What are the strongest industries in the developing coutries

5. How does the contracting process to job shops work as a part of a manufacturer's supply chain?

Thank you all SO MUCH, in advance

Robin Hewitt
18-02-2015, 11:47 AM
Is this your homework?

18-02-2015, 01:48 PM
I apologize.

If you could answer even one of those, I would be really grateful.

Thank you again

18-02-2015, 07:07 PM
I have a Nine9 inserted engraving/V-carving cutter, I didn't buy something from one of the top 3 because they don't make an equivalent.

"3. The carbide metal cutting tools is considered highly fragmented"

Either "The carbide metal cutting tools are considered highly fragmented" which as a product sintered from powder in a metallic binder I suppose they technically are or you've missed out a word when copying from your assignment ;-)

If the question should have been "The carbide metal cutting tools market is considered highly fragmented" then the answer is that industry in general by it's very nature is fragmented, Industry is some Bean-Counting ass's term for a myriad of businesses of a huge range of sizes doing a huge range of different things, either the question setter is an ass and doesn't understand this or it's a trick question! :-0

"What are the approximate (rough estimate) market shares of each of the categories"

At this point, without background for your request and without having done your course so far this counts as taking the mick.

I've given you one good answer though ;-)

- Nick

18-02-2015, 08:37 PM
Have you seen this (http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2015/02/05/results-2015-cnccookbook-end-mill-brand-survey/)?

Or is that where your initial question came from?

It would also be really polite to say why you are asking these questions. At the moment, it almost sounds like someone in the business doing some undercover research work, and I'm sure you're not doing that.

19-02-2015, 08:50 AM
Thank you so much.

I did mean that the cutting tools market is fragmented.

To my understanding the top 3 don't do engraving inserts, thats why you don't use them.

How can I get some idea of all the possible type of jobs and workpiece sizes? I know there is milling, turning, threading, parting, grooving, hole making, engraving what else?

My background for this research, is that I am trying to create a unique hi tech business venture in the field of cutting tools.
I am coming from the computing industry and I think that cutting tools present interesting opportunities.

19-02-2015, 08:56 AM
Have you seen this (http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2015/02/05/results-2015-cnccookbook-end-mill-brand-survey/)?

Or is that where your initial question came from?

It would also be really polite to say why you are asking these questions. At the moment, it almost sounds like someone in the business doing some undercover research work, and I'm sure you're not doing that.

I actually haven't seen that survey, and I thank you for sharing it with me.

Like I said in my previous reply, I am not in this industry at the moment.
I am looking to get into it with a unique high tech business venture, and this is why I need help understanding the basics.

For starters I really want to understand, how and why exactly this market is so fragmented, and get a somewhat accurate scope of the market's segments.

Robin Hewitt
19-02-2015, 09:31 AM
Here is mostly the hobby end which has a problem with innovation and has became stuck in the mud.
Last time I looked...
Stepper motors were all 200 steps/rev
There was no clear distinction between milling machines and wood routers.
Everybody was using antiquated MACH3 software that required a computer running Windows XP all to itself.
If you could come up with a tool bit that could chew through steel at enormous revs and feeds without benefit of flood coolant and without requiring much side support from above despite it's 6" shank... you would have a winner.
At the other end of the spectrum engineers will chose tooling by whatever has worked for them in the past.
When they have a problem first they will try resharpening old faithful more often while they will cast about for a miracle cure, hoping technology has moved on enough to save them.

19-02-2015, 05:39 PM
Who'd have thought it?
Mach3 bashing shoehorned into an answer ;-)

Boyan Silyavski
19-02-2015, 10:18 PM
http://www.mycncuk.com/images/misc/flags/Israel.pngmachinestarter (http://www.mycncuk.com/members/19590-machinestarter),

You remind me of my old boss. He did not have a bloody idea of something but he was pretty sure that his intelligence will reveal him the right way to do things and the secrets in any branch . So he was quite sure he would succeed without real life knowledge and experience.

Well, guess what, he did not. He just spend his money and many peoples time.

Maybe if nobody here answers you, you should go to Fiver.com and ask there

Be serious please. Do your job. Or pay sb to do it properly.

But i will give you a hint though:

This market/and any/ works like this: X needs STH so A who knows of that need , starts providing it. So A is already in the chain. he is the chain. All else comes later.

The market does not work like that: B has STH and searches to whom to sell it.

Not to speak of C has nothing, does not know how market works and does not know how and to whom to sell it