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eurikain
09-09-2015, 08:09 AM
Hi everyone,

I tried wiring my old stepper, drivers, bob and psu yesterday and setting up Mach3. I can make the steppers move correctly from Mach3, but there's a horrible sound coming from the motors, accompanied with huge vibrations and noise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOdEDXSvNdE&feature=youtu.be

Can anyone tell me what is wrong :( ?

Electronics:
- 5 axis bob v5
- CW8020 drivers
- nema 23 425oz
- another chinese driver and motor (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEMA23-450-Oz-in-CNC-stepper-motor-stepping-motor-3-2A-1pc-motor-driver/2028971350.html)
- 36V 9.7A PSU

The last driver + motor have been bought less than a month ago and make the same weird sound, which makes me think that the BOB is the issue. It's not just one motor that doesn't work, it's all of them.

Thanks a lot for your help !

Cheers !

EDIT:

- PSU tested, all outputs are good.

Wal
09-09-2015, 01:44 PM
It's not just one motor that doesn't work, it's all of them.

Which would likely indicate that your motors are fine and it's something further on up the chain. Have you double checked that your wiring's correct..? Yeah, a silly question but it's the silly things that often catch you out. Came across this vid on YouTube, guy puts his issues down to a burned out stepper controller (driver?). Are your drivers getting enough juice?

Anyway, just a couple of ideas - but like I say, don't overlook having done something silly. Check and double check...

Wal.

JAZZCNC
09-09-2015, 03:30 PM
Pretty sure by the Sounds and jumping you have the motor phases wired wrong. This will be why they all make the same noise if wired the same.

How have you wired them Parallel or series. If you have a data sheet showing the motor wiring colours post it and I'll take a look.

eurikain
10-09-2015, 12:09 AM
Hi guys, thanks so much for the replies. Here is the information you have requested, plus several pictures of my drivers, bob, and wiring, and also other essential information. The wiring diagram is at the end of this post.

Break out board:

5 axis break out board V5 from buildyourcnc.com:

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16033&stc=1

I wired it and set up mach3 using the instructions at:
http://www.buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2128

Stepper motors:


60BYGH303-13 (8 leads) from buildyourcnc.com:
https://buildyourcnc.com/Documents/PN.SM60HT86-2008BF-U%20(inhouse%20PN.60BYGH303-13)%20(1).pdf

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16034&stc=1

To be noted:
- I have them wired bipolar parallel
- honestly, nice looking motors, quality seems to be there, I doubt they could be broken, at least not all three at the same time.
57BYGH8930 (4 leads: GREEN, BLUE, YELLOW, RED) from AliExpress.

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16035&stc=1

To be noted:
- No data sheet provided
- The leads don't match Nema 23 standards, but I found the wiring on some other Chinese motor with the same color code... It said: GREEN=A-; RED=A+; BLUE=B-; YELLOW=B+.
- Here is the link to the original AliExpress item, but this probably won't be of any help:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEMA23-450-Oz-in-CNC-stepper-motor-stepping-motor-3-2A-1pc-motor-driver/2028971350.html
- I think I was out of my mind when I bought this guy... but oh well, now that I have it I better use it :)


Stepper drivers:


CW230, also from buildyourcnc.com:

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16030&stc=1

To be noted:
- No information on what switch 4 and 8 are for....
- It has CW+/- and CP+/- instead of common DIR/STEP pins
- I wired it using the instructions at:
http://www.buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2128

Switches are set to 2.4A and 1/8 mcs:
SW1=0 (down)
SW2=0 (down)
SW3=1 (up)
SW4=0 (down)
SW5=1 (up)
SW6=0 (down)
SW7=1 (up)
SW8=0 (down)
FMD2740A, came with the motor I bought on AliExpress (same link as for the motor):

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16031&stc=1

To be noted:
- I don't know what "Delay MD" is (switch 1 and 2). I tried slow and fast, no change in the motor behavior.
- No information saying which if switch up = 1 or 0. There is a writing below the switches that shows a little arrow pointing down and on its left is written 0N. I assumed 0 was down, 1 was up.

Switches are set to 2.5A and 1/8 mcs:
SW1=0 (down)
SW2=1 (UP)
SW3=1 (up)
SW4=0 (down)
SW5=0 (down)
SW6=0 (down)
SW7=0 (down)
SW8=1 (up)


Power supply:

36V 9.7A from buildyourcnc.com
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16032&stc=1

I know this is not sufficient for all four motors, but don't worry the problem does not come from this as I have tried using only 3 or 1 motor, same issue with the noise and huge vibrations. I have actually tried several combinations: 450oz motor alone, one 425oz motor alone, all three 425oz motors together, all four motors together. Same problem, no change. Now, for the four motor working together, and to use all the 9.7A (I know I'll be underpowered, no worry I'll buy another PSU later on, I just want to make sure my motors, bob and drivers work fine first), I set the them as follow:



450oz motor needs 3.2A, I give it 2.5A
425oz motors needs 2.8A, I give them 2.4A


Total is 2.5 + 3 * 2.4 = 9.7A.

Here is the wiring diagram (note the motors model name):

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16036&stc=1

Thanks so much for your help ! I hope to find what is not working right, so I can either fix it or buy some replacements.

JAZZCNC
10-09-2015, 12:49 AM
It's hard to tell from the pics but the 8 wire motor looks like it's got 2 red wires going to A+.? You should have
A+ = Red & Blue
A - = Black & yellow
B+ = wht & brn
B - = Org & Grn

If correct then I have known some cheapp drives do strange things like this when the pulse is on the wrong side. So try changing the active state in Mach3 and see if it makes a difference.

Also what are you using for a parallel port cable.? It must be a straight thru cable not an old printer cable.!

eurikain
10-09-2015, 01:01 AM
I just updated the wiring diagram.

I have the wires plunged as you said. No double red going to A+, that's just my picture that was not taken right :)

When you say change the active state in Mach3, do you mean change to low active to low high ?

I am using a male-female cable I bought three years ago. I think it's the correct cable, as it worked fine three years ago :/

Clive S
10-09-2015, 09:37 AM
Have you measured the resistance between each pair of cables ie between red/blue black/yellow etc they should read all the same + or - a very small amount.

Also as Dean has said re the printer cable make sure it is a straight through cable ie pin 1 to pin1, pin 2 to pin2 etc. AS when you say you have used it before was it on a printer? Not all printer cables are straight through.

JAZZCNC
10-09-2015, 03:14 PM
When you say change the active state in Mach3, do you mean change to low active to low high ?

Yes and also try setting the Step pulse so it's ahead of the Dir pulse. You'll find this in motor tuning.


I am using a male-female cable I bought three years ago. I think it's the correct cable, as it worked fine three years ago :/

Clive answered this for me.

nobby
10-09-2015, 09:02 PM
Yes and also try setting the Step pulse so it's ahead of the Dir pulse. You'll find this in motor tuning.



Clive answered this for me.



bi polar parallel wants more juice,
you need a 15 amp 36 volt psu
why don't you run them at a higher res?

eurikain
10-09-2015, 10:40 PM
So sorry for the delay !



Have you measured the resistance between each pair of cables ie between red/blue black/yellow etc they should read all the same + or - a very small amount.


I will try tomorrow. How am I supposed to test this ?



Also as Dean has said re the printer cable make sure it is a straight through cable ie pin 1 to pin1, pin 2 to pin2 etc. AS when you say you have used it before was it on a printer? Not all printer cables are straight through.


I bought this cable brand new three years ago and only used it with my CNC electronics, never on a printer. I will check that all pins are straight through (actually, how do I do that with no juice on them ?) and get back to you tomorrow.



bi polar parallel wants more juice


Could I wire them in series ? Then they'll need 1.4A and I'll be fine (for now).



why don't you run them at a higher res?


What do you mean ? 1/16 or 1/4 ? FMD2740A can't do 1/8 or 1/4, only full, 1/2, 1/16 and lover.



Yes and also try setting the Step pulse so it's ahead of the Dir pulse. You'll find this in motor tuning.


Sounds good, I'll try that tomorrow and let you know. I'll wire only three motors and see what comes out. i'll post pictures/videos if I can.

JAZZCNC
10-09-2015, 11:28 PM
bi polar parallel wants more juice,
you need a 15 amp 36 volt psu
why don't you run them at a higher res?

No he doesn't need that high a supply. He'll never pull any where near that amount of current in normal use. More volts would help increase speed but it wouldn't cause this problem provided they are wired correctly.

Like wise running with a Higher Res or micro stepping being the correct term would only make the matter worse if he's struggling with pulses or the PP has it would require many times more pulses and work for the parallel port.
If he was running at Full step then yes but 1/8 is fine and just about what I'd recommend.


I'll wire only three motors and see what comes out. i'll post pictures/videos if I can.

Just start with one motor then test and see what happens.
Don't bother with wiring in series as you'll need even more volts to get speed. Keep with parallel and set the current setting to match the drive rating.
You do however have a miss match with the motors because those 4 wire motors are most likely series wound motors so will stall a lot sooner up the speed curve than the parallel wired ones with the same voltage.


To test the cable you need a continuity meter or meter set to Ohm's just like for testing phases. Probe pin1 at one end and at the other check it against the others. You should only get a reading between same pins # at each end with no crossover between pins.

eurikain
12-09-2015, 01:06 AM
Alright, I'm back after about an hour and a half of testing. Here is what I did:


Test the DB25 cable. All pins are through, no cross wires, and they work fine.
Wire only one motor, in parallel, with 1/8mcs and 2.7A (as close as I can get to 2.8).
same problem. Same problem as before. Note that when not moving, the motors make weird sounds..., like a constant little quiet electrical noise, hard to describe.
Tried switching DIR and/or STEP active low setting. No change.

Here is what I haven't tried yet and will try tomorrow if you think it's worth it:

pins 4 and 8 in all four possible positions (00, 01, 10, 11).
switch one motor for the other (if same problem, it's not the motors, it's higher in the chain)
switch one driver for the other (if same problem, it's the board that's broken)
try another computer, who knows, the only thing I have changed since 2010 is this old computer. But it works fine, so I doubt it comes from there, but with those old guys, you never know.

So, if it's not the cable, not the PSU (already tested), not the motors, and not the drives, it's definitely the board.

What do you guys think ?

JAZZCNC
12-09-2015, 03:16 PM
Try setting the step pulse in motor tuning to 5 set Dir to 0 You want the Step in front of the Dir.

eurikain
12-09-2015, 04:41 PM
Try setting the step pulse in motor tuning to 5 set Dir to 0 You want the Step in front of the Dir.
Just tried, same problem.

However, when I started Mach3, ran the first test, the motor worked fine for about five seconds before going back to making the same noise as before. Notice that the motor now moves really slowly. When I move it to one direction, it takes several seconds to start, then to slow down. Mach3 indicates correct value as I can see on the screen that the motor takes forever to stop.

EDIT: go to zero function works fine. I'm guessing the bob is fine... may be it's the drivers :/ Oh boy... I think I'm just going to buy a new PSU, new drives, and get a nema23 8 leads to match the others I got...

JAZZCNC
13-09-2015, 01:06 AM
EDIT: go to zero function works fine. I'm guessing the bob is fine... may be it's the drivers :/ Oh boy... I think I'm just going to buy a new PSU, new drives, and get a nema23 8 leads to match the others I got...

NO Don't do that.!!!!. . . . . . The Drives, BOB, have NO control over Mach3 what so ever they are effectively UNDER MACH3's control and do exactly has they are told.
So if you are saying the GOTO Zero makes the motors work fine then you have Mach3 setup wrong. How I'm not so sure without seeing the Mach3 XML
So either post pics of your Mach setup screens or Post the XML file your using and I can look at it directly. You'll find it in the Mach3 folder under the same name has the profile your using. ie: MachMill or if Custom profile then name you choose. (You may have to Zip it up to post or Email me directly)

eurikain
13-09-2015, 01:44 AM
NO Don't do that.!!!!. . . . . . The Drives, BOB, have NO control over Mach3 what so ever they are effectively UNDER MACH3's control and do exactly has they are told.
So if you are saying the GOTO Zero makes the motors work fine then you have Mach3 setup wrong. How I'm not so sure without seeing the Mach3 XML
So either post pics of your Mach setup screens or Post the XML file your using and I can look at it directly. You'll find it in the Mach3 folder under the same name has the profile your using. ie: MachMill or if Custom profile then name you choose. (You may have to Zip it up to post or Email me directly)

What I meant by "work fine" is that they go back to the correct position, but still having the same problem :( I'll post take pictures of the setup I got and update this post with it, plus I'll join the xml config file in a zip file and attach it here. I'll try to make good pictures so you can see the wiring and see if I've done something wrong. I've checked a couple of times though. No worries I won't buy the electronics until I am sure that those I got are dead ;) Let's figure this thing out. I'll update tomorrow morning :) I'll also make some videos if possible so you can really see what's happening again.

Side note: So nice to see you putting some time in helping me. I will try my best to give back to the community, that lives with people like you !

EDIT: sorry I haven't had the time to post, I'm working this week and will be back home this weekend ;)

eurikain
05-10-2015, 03:51 PM
Update on my problems :)

Received my new $10 BOB last week and tried it today. I plugged only one motor. Works like a charm. Plug all motors, boom same problem as before. Unplug all motors and plug just one. Doesn't work with one motor anymore. I turned off the PC, unplugged everything from the BOB. Turn on the PSU and the motors, thought not moving, make a weird high pitch noise, that they make when they don't work correctly. On today's first attempt, the motor plugged was quite when still. So, I am assuming it's either the motors or the drivers.

eurikain
23-10-2015, 04:30 PM
Update: my new AM882 drivers arrived a while ago. I wired my new BOB with one AM882, same PSU as before, same motors as before. The AM882 "stall detection" alarm activates when everything is under tension. Therefore, I am assuming that the problem comes from the motors. I will order cnc4you's motors some time later so we will know what was wrong :)

eurikain
04-12-2015, 03:41 PM
Update:

I have:
- 4 brand new AM882 drivers
- brand new 5 axis bob
- 4 brand new CNC4YOU Nema23 3.1Nm steppers

AND I AM STILL HAVING THE SAME ISSUE oO !!!!

Would anybody be nice enough to spend a few minutes on Skype with me trying to figure this out before I go buy a new DB25 cable and new computer ? If you are willing to help then send me a PM and i can find any time to talk :)

Thanks a lot !

uli12us
04-12-2015, 05:07 PM
Have you connected your wires in exact the same way, like jazz wrote months before.

If yes, have you tested the drivers (and motors) with a small program direct from your printer port of your computer. If you don't have, I must look, if I have one.

Noplace
04-12-2015, 05:46 PM
is your BOB getting sufficient power supply? it's a long shot but worth to get a separate 5V power supply (phone charger with high amp like the samsung ones ) and try powering it from that. at worse case you will end up with an extra charger hehe.

eurikain
04-12-2015, 06:46 PM
@uli12us (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/9039-Stepper-problem/members/21044-uli12us)

Hello :) Yes I am sure, I followed his instructions to the letter... I read carefully wiring diagrams from CNC4YOU and from the AM882 manual. I have checked several times.. I should try to plug my Mom's computer to see if the problem is not just the computer --'

I haven't tested the drives / motors the way you mention. How do you do that ? Drivers are brand new, they seem to work fine (they hold the motors in place when the Mach3 reset button is "up" and let them turn freely without power when it is "down").

@noplace
That, my dear, is a great idea, it's probably the only thing I haven't tried. I happen to have a PC power supply laying somewhere in my room.

JAZZCNC
04-12-2015, 06:48 PM
Update:

I have:
- 4 brand new AM882 drivers
- brand new 5 axis bob
- 4 brand new CNC4YOU Nema23 3.1Nm steppers

AND I AM STILL HAVING THE SAME ISSUE oO !!!!

It's your Parallel port then. (or cable) Don't mess around buying new PC just buy an external Motion control card and you will be sorted out and have much better performance.
If you buy new PC or PP card and stick with PP at best it will work ok but compared to external motion control it will still be rubbish.

So Don't Mess about just buy one.!! . . . Promise you won't regret it.

Edit: I'm not a Fan of Skpe so don't have it on this PC. Also without being in front of machine it's of limited use with problem like this.

eurikain
04-12-2015, 06:53 PM
@JAZZ here you are :D ! Thought you were on vacation :D (check you inbox ;) ). Can you recommend me a decent (please think about my student budget haha) one ?

JAZZCNC
04-12-2015, 07:11 PM
@JAZZ here you are :D ! Thought you were on vacation :D (check you inbox ;) ). Can you recommend me a decent (please think about my student budget haha) one ?

I had seen PM just ignoring you. . .Lol . . . No it just slipped my mind.

I am thinking about your Student budget and you can't afford to not get one. I told you before not to buy drives or anything because wasn't your problem but you didn't listen.!! . . . . Some folks just need to learn the hard way.!. . :boxing:

eurikain
04-12-2015, 07:16 PM
I knew it haha :D !

Ohhhh I see :) I know you told me that, but honestly, don't you think I am better off with AM882 and the good Nema23 from CNC4YOU ?

I was just kidding about the budget. I am very happy I got good drives and motors, and a good linear PSU because I know that when I build another machine I can re-use those :)

Put the budget on the side. At this point I don't care anymore, I just want a good machine that will run smoothly. Can you still recommend a decent board :) ?

JAZZCNC
05-12-2015, 02:13 AM
Ohhhh I see :) I know you told me that, but honestly, don't you think I am better off with AM882 and the good Nema23 from CNC4YOU ?

Yes I do but that wasn't your problem at the time so in that context then No. The reaity is that you may have found just fitting a Motion control card from the start would have full fulled all your needs.?

But now you have gone this far then I'd say finish it properly with Motion control card. Given the fact you have BoB's and it's router with slaved axis then I'd say ESS Smooth stepper. So drop George (Komatis) a line and he'll sort you out I'm sure.

eurikain
07-12-2015, 11:22 PM
Thank you Jazz :) I will follow your instructions :)

komatias
08-12-2015, 05:09 PM
Thanks for the promo Jazz!

Eurikain,

I will be in Antewerp over Christmas. If you are not in the area, I can pop an ESS in the Belgian post and save you a bit of money on postage from the UK :barbershop_quartet_

eurikain
08-12-2015, 10:49 PM
Great ! Have family around ? Be careful, I've heard Belgium's not safe these days lol :D Oh Dear, I live 30 minutes away from Brussels :) I'll PM you so we save this thread some bad jokes :)

JAZZCNC
09-12-2015, 12:52 AM
Thanks for the promo Jazz!

No problem just remember this( and the others) when I want one. . :hysterical:

eurikain
09-12-2015, 08:38 AM
Lol, you're good ;)

eurikain
19-12-2015, 03:25 PM
FYI, I tried with a friend of mine's parallel port PCI board, and it's the same problem ! So.... problem == MOTHERBOARD !!!!!!