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Neale
13-09-2015, 10:57 AM
I saw passing mention of someone using trochoidal cutting paths recently. I've had a quick look around and it doesn't look as if any of the more common (I.e. cheap enough for home use) CAM packages offer this. Have I missed something? Is it something worth doing even on relatively lightweight home machines, as opposed to full-scale heavyweight commercial milling machines?

johnsattuk
13-09-2015, 10:59 AM
Estlcam ??

JAZZCNC
13-09-2015, 11:48 AM
Probably me you seen mention it.? . . . I think seen CamBam can do this or flavor of it but I may be wrong has I don't use it. Possibly was on a beta version.?


Is it something worth doing even on relatively lightweight home machines, as opposed to full-scale heavyweight commercial milling machines?

Yes very much so because the cutting forces are so much lower it doesn't stress the machine or cutter so much. The material removal rate and extended tool life is awsome.
Down side has you've seen is it mostly only comes on higher end Cam packages so costs more. If your making money with the machine and time is important then it's really worth having because the cycle times can drop by 50-60% and tool life increase by 25-35%.

johnsattuk
13-09-2015, 12:09 PM
Was using Estlcam for some time before your mention, like it because it's very easy to use and very well priced.

Neale
13-09-2015, 12:23 PM
Probably me you seen mention it.? . . . I think seen CamBam can do this or flavor of it but I may be wrong has I don't use it. Possibly was on a beta version.?


I think it might have been you, Jazz - I'm not sure now. Google found a reference to someone who was playing with this a few years ago as a possible plug-in option for Cambam, but as far as I can see it hasn't made it to the product. I've been playing with Fusion360 recently as a 3D design tool, especially for 3D printing (it's a bit OTT for this but just a few features make it really useful) but I hadn't looked at the CAM side of it at all. Searching for "trochoidal" in the help area I find mention of a "max trochoidal radius" CAM parameter, but no explanation of what it is or how it is used. Looks like I need to do a bit of exploring there.

Haven't come across Estlcam - I'll take a closer look, thanks.

routercnc
14-09-2015, 03:33 PM
Hi Neale,

When I looked into this a few months back I got all excited because CAMBAM seemed to offer this, and was prepared to buy a copy just for that. But the more I read into it the more convinced I was that it was an imitation of troichoidal type paths and ONLY for straight line cuts. It did not do proper trochoidal for arbitrary shapes such as pockets. To me this is the where the time saving could come in, so I didn't buy it.
I could be wrong but that was the conclusion / limitation I made about CAMBAM.

Thanks

johnsattuk
14-09-2015, 03:59 PM
https://youtu.be/T4fn-tP1PuI

JAZZCNC
14-09-2015, 05:20 PM
Not overly impressed with that John if I'm honest. Very hard on the machine with all those aggressive little moves for such a simple pocket.
Compare it with this doing more slightly larger more complex pocket look at the difference in smoothness, ignore my shacking the camera about.!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0wSeCLhI6A

johnsattuk
14-09-2015, 06:32 PM
Not overly impressed with that John if I'm honest.

No surprises there then :thumsup: would have liked more machine noises and less of the other.

A lot may be with the settings he had chosen, can change quite a lot of them including Z relief. It is a 39 euro program :calm:

JAZZCNC
14-09-2015, 06:46 PM
No surprises there then :thumsup: would have liked more machine noises and less of the other.

A lot may be with the settings he had chosen, can change quite a lot of them including Z relief. It is a 39 euro program :calm:

Ye the reason for no sound was because there wasn't any.?
Didn't realise camera had NO sound setting and must have pushed it.? Has you can see I'm no Richard Attenbourgh when it comes to filming . . Lol . . The actually cutting sound was just normal cutting sound much like in that video you posted.

Must say thou that is very impressive for a software only costing 39 Euro.!! . . . So I'll take back my words and say I'm very impressed. .:applause:

cropwell
14-09-2015, 06:53 PM
I have just updated my Estlcam to version 8. It looks a very useful CAM facility. Version 7 was a little sparse on features, but for less than 40, it seemed good.

My understanding of the advantage of trochoidal paths was that it puts less force on the cutter, while making swarf at an optimal rate. The DOC can be more, so pocketing is done in fewer passes, hence faster metal removal rates = shorter job time.

The Estlcam video really looks as though the DOC is conservative and the cutter movement too fast in compensation. I would fully expect JAZZ to know his machine and the material he is cutting to set it up to best effect. Although the vid where the cutter snaps and someone says 'Oh F***' wouldn't be shown would it :tongue::toot::devilish:

Cheers,

Rob

routercnc
14-09-2015, 10:22 PM
I went through most of the tutorial videos for Estlcam this afternoon and I am very impressed. Trochoidal toolpaths, thread milling, 3D milling, cutting open vectors, . . .So much so that I've downloaded the demo software which is fully functional for a limited period.

It seems to offer much more than Vectric Cut2d for a quarter of the price. Only drawback is does not show a picture of the final cut part, just the toolpaths.