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Tom J
19-09-2015, 11:03 PM
Hi folks
I would like to show my design before fabrication in case you spot something not wright.
Machine itself is tiny - working area 320x320x100. Reason for that is that I am limited with my Mill.
I will not use epoxy for any leveling, base for linear rails will be machined.
My mill with 2.5" head can do pass 450mm long along longest travel.
Both base on bed will be done from one fix - that is why frame is 360mm wide excluding base for rails and rails itself.
Profiles 50x25x2.5. I had them very cheap considering UK prices for steel.
THK 15 rails with two blocks on each rails
RM1605 ballscrew on X and Y
RM1204 on Z
Nema 23 3.1Nm stepper
Belt drive HTD 5M 15T-20T - height of profile determine that, gear 30T is greater than 50mm and sticks out from bed
Spindle - Kress 1050
Design is nearly done - only home/limit switches are mising, cable carriers and few cosmetic item - brackets etc.
Any comments welcome

Cheers
Tom

JAZZCNC
19-09-2015, 11:32 PM
Still trying to decide if this a moving gantry or Fixed gantry machine.? In both cases I'd change a couple of things on the main frame but will wait until you clear up which it is.!

On the Z axis I'd switch the rails around and have them on the front plate with bearing on rear plate. This will give you a variable length lever depending on extension compared to the fixed length one now at any extension.

I also wouldn't use a Kress router has it will be letting a nice stiff little machine down. Either 1.5 or 2.2Kw water cooled spindle is the right tool for this machine and won't cost much more than a Kress. It will last 5 times longer with much more power and lots quiter and I mean lots.!!

Tom J
20-09-2015, 12:16 AM
Hi Jazzcnc
It is movable gantry type as can be seen from every picture. Posted two version of gantry, but will use that with vertical orientated profiles - last 4 pictures.

Reason for using blocks on spindle plate is simple - less cutting chips on rails as they are higher - means Z plate.
I am not quite sure how you can have variable length lever? Unless distance on bearing blocks can be adjusted accordingly.

I have both 2.2Kw water cooled spindle which seems to be massive for this particular design. This will be engraver - mickey mouse machine, but precise enough for my needs. I might go for 1.2KW water cooled but is hard to find, 1.5KW no problem

Thanks for reply
Tom

JAZZCNC
20-09-2015, 12:35 AM
Hi Jazzcnc
It is movable gantry type as can be seen from every picture. Posted two version of gantry, but will use that with vertical orientated profiles - last 4 pictures.

The fact it doesn't have any legs or way for the gantry to clear the bench made me wonder if it was sat on the bench and the table moved.?


Reason for using blocks on spindle plate is simple - less cutting chips on rails as they are higher - means Z plate.
I am not quite sure how you can have variable length lever? Unless distance on bearing blocks can be adjusted accordingly.

Your design is like a spring board with just one fixed length. The distance from the bearing block to the end of the plate is constantly that length no matter where it is on the rails. So if say the front plates deflects for argument sake 1mm it will do so at any extension along the rails.

If you swap them around then this spring board is variable depending on how extended the rails from the bearings. So at full extension you'll have 1mm deflection but if only extend down half way then deflection halfs.!! . . . . Does that make sense.?




I have both 2.2Kw water cooled spindle which seems to be massive for this particular design. This will be engraver - mickey mouse machine, but precise enough for my needs. I might go for 1.2KW water cooled but is hard to find, 1.5KW no problem

1.2 or 1.5Kw hardly much in it both miles better than Kress.

Dragonfly
20-09-2015, 09:58 AM
For a machine this size I'd go for the fixed gantry option.

Blackrat
20-09-2015, 10:49 AM
doing miter cuts on the gantry frame is going to be a mission, unless you got a very accurate machine to cut at 45 degrees ...

agree with the rails on the plate ...

my thoughts :D

Tom J
20-09-2015, 02:39 PM
Blackrat

Mitre cuts is no problem doesn't need to be so accurate - 89-91 deg will do as I leave the gap for welding bead.
Big problem is to keep control distortion - cooling/pulling after get cold. I bought HD clamp 45 each to keep the angle.
Heat treatment is important as well - annealing (releases tension in welding joints)

Tom J
20-09-2015, 03:26 PM
Sorry, should say that, legs are missing - got adjustable stands 40mm with M8 stud on each corner, high enough so gantry can slide without touching leg surface.
All will stand on table top or designated bench with enclosure - all depends the noise from spindle (Kress or 1.2-1.5Kw water)

I will swap over blocks with rails on Z - in spite of travel of Z being 75% of distance between blocks and spindle plate overhanging length is 3 times the thickness of that plate.
Thanks for pointing that - this will help me to reduce the Z plate overall length by Z travel which is 110mm:)

I will try both spindles, only problem is that water cooled is heavier what cause the CoG move forward and is not in middle of sliding blocks on the gantry like is now with Kress.

Tom J
20-09-2015, 03:27 PM
For a machine this size I'd go for the fixed gantry option.

This will reduce already short travel of 320mm to 220mm. Was considering that as is much simpler build

Tom J
20-09-2015, 03:31 PM
doing miter cuts on the gantry frame is going to be a mission, unless you got a very accurate machine to cut at 45 degrees ...

agree with the rails on the plate ...

my thoughts :D

Here is how I did welding before I got those HD clamps - previous design - travel 900x400x150http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16112&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16113&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16114&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16115&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16116&stc=1

JAZZCNC
20-09-2015, 04:39 PM
I will try both spindles, only problem is that water cooled is heavier what cause the CoG move forward and is not in middle of sliding blocks on the gantry like is now with Kress.

The slight change in CoG Won't make a Jot of difference to how the machine cuts but the WC spindle will make a big difference because it's far more ridged than the kress.!

Coming along nice looking forward to seeing it working. ..:applause:

Tom J
05-10-2015, 11:20 PM
Decided to use 1.5kw water cooled one after compared noise level with Kress - thanks Jazzcnc.
Here is the base frame - profile 50x25x2
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16223&stc=1
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16221&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16222&stc=1

Blackrat
06-10-2015, 07:50 AM
looking good

thats quite a thin section ... 2mm , are you going to fill it ?

Tom J
06-10-2015, 01:42 PM
Its actually 2.5mm thick, still thin, table itself is rigid enough. Gantry will have 50x5 to joint both legs, so should be no flex. In addition I use 5mm base for mounting all gantry blocks THK15. Will upload some photos after welding. Gantry is complicated as has to be adjusted to match the distance between rails on the bad. I will machine/plane X bases before welding them to top part (X mounting profiles). After all will be final machine to keep straight angle between table and Y plane and between base for blocks and Y plane - will do pictures as is confusing enough:)

Tom J
25-10-2015, 12:20 AM
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Tom J
25-10-2015, 12:28 AM
Base frame - surface planing (2.5" milling head - 63,5mm)
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Lee Roberts
25-10-2015, 01:09 AM
Looking very nice Tom thanks for sharing, keep up the good work!

.Me

Tom J
08-11-2015, 03:47 PM
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Drilling and taping M3 holes for 15mm rails

Tom J
08-11-2015, 03:51 PM
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Drilling holes - M3x16mm socket bolts. They tall enough to use entire thread depth and goes inside 25mm wide profile. There will be only 4mm hole left outside to insert the allen key:)

Tom J
08-11-2015, 03:57 PM
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Errors are inevitable - forgot to cut the slot for the belt - grrr.
Had to grind and mill 20mm slot - wasted my precious time.

Tom J
08-11-2015, 04:00 PM
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Base for legs: 2mm profile (2.5 before planing) 5mm plate plus m8 nut, so total of 15mm thread depth for vibro-damping stands.

Tom J
08-11-2015, 04:06 PM
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Frame almost done.
Y motor bracket need to be welded in place
Detecting plate for Home and Limit - this will have slots, so can be adjusted accordingly - should be done before was welded - now need to buy angle drill. I should finish design to last bolt first before starting fabrication - always do the same mistake - just not patient enough.

Tom J
08-11-2015, 04:09 PM
Had to shortened the RM1605 ballscrew by 14mm.
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My tip for turning exact diameter is to leave 0.1mm and use sand paper on the end to get nice fit to bearings.

JAZZCNC
08-11-2015, 06:14 PM
Looking good Tom keep it up can't wait to see it Rattle n Roll. .:onthego:

Tom J
17-11-2015, 01:54 PM
Planing base for ballscrew - base is 60x5 mild still (as we know is far from flat, unlike cold rolled - bright steel)
As always got some distortion after welding.

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Tom J
24-11-2015, 12:39 PM
Updated design - new colour, few minor changes in Z plate
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Welding the gantry - was waiting for another precision angle from Amazon - Happy with the result 0.5 mm off i checked against one side - spot on from other side. When all will be welded together (base for rails, ribs, etc) than will machine the base to have straight angle. I will leave the rails on the block, as this will be reference surface to the angle plate when fix to the mill - confusing now, but will show the picture soon.
Meantime - how I achieved accuracy before welding - spot how I use the straight angles (Gantry legs, than against table and Base for X axle) All surfaces has been planed each time I weld something - this was my error, should weld everything first than machine to avoid distortion.
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JAZZCNC
24-11-2015, 04:25 PM
Tom I spotted 2x Fixed Prox switches on the Gantry. Do it other way around and use just one traveling switch with Fixed Targets, less switches less wiring same result.

Looking Good. . . :thumsup:

Tom J
24-11-2015, 04:45 PM
Jazz, other side is reserved for cable carrier, so switch(es) has to be near the motor. Did you noticed that bed frame has slightly more room opposite the motor (just enough for radius/bend of my cable carrier
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I always was using two sensors - Limit and Home with Mach3 - connected similar to that:
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can you explain how to use one switch (NC)? Wiring diagram would be ideal:)
I know how to daisychained together - but this is limit side, how to wire them to use Home?
Each black signal wire to input X,Y and Z?

JAZZCNC
24-11-2015, 05:58 PM
can you explain how to use one switch (NC)? Wiring diagram would be ideal:)
I know how to daisychained together - but this is limit side, how to wire them to use Home?
Each black signal wire to input X,Y and Z?

Ok well maybe we are at odd's here.? It looked like 2 switches for Limits and I was meaning just have one switch that traveled.

But call it option #1 if your wanting to Share one Switch for Limits and Home then you can do that but with NC switches each Axis will need a Input. So 3x switches and 3 x Inputs.
Option #2 You can use NO switches then you can have all Limits and Homes on 1 input and wire them in parallel. So 3 x switches and 1x input.

What you lose with the later is the Safety of NC switch but you have more inputs to play with if limited.

Other option #3 uses 2 inputs and 2 types of switch. NC wired in series for limits on one input. NO wired in parallel for Homes on other input.
This gives Safest option because Limits can be set to be monitored while Homing.

#1 Shared Home and Limit on 1 Input with NC Switch is easy. Just wire each Axis switch to a Input. Then in Mach3 ports&pins Inputs set the limits and home input for that Axis to same Pin number. Set Both to go Active Low. Then go into General config and Turnoff(uncheck) HomeSW safety and thats it.
Now when Mach homes it ignores Limits.

#2 Setup for NO is just the same but All Axis share same pin number for Limits and Home. Then set to go Active High. Rest is just the same.

#3 Should be obvious really.!! Limits in Input 1 set active Low. Homes in Input 2 set Active High. Then turn ON Home SW Safety.

Can do a diagram if you let me know which you prefer.

Tom J
24-11-2015, 06:24 PM
Ok. Jazz
I know what you mean by using one sensor:
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So far I use 2 sensors, one is limit +, other is Home and limit- all in one, connected like that:
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I think this is your option#3 " uses 2 inputs and 2 types of switch. NC wired in series for limits on one input. NO wired in parallel for Homes on other input"
I was wonder how you get away with having only one sensor, must use soft limits in Mach for safety. I've seen 3 sensors solution: limit+ limit- and home in one axis, but I think is not needed.
Correct me pls. if we I am wrong.

JAZZCNC
24-11-2015, 06:44 PM
I think this is your option#3 " uses 2 inputs and 2 types of switch. NC wired in series for limits on one input. NO wired in parallel for Homes on other input"

Well kind of but your way is a bit mixed up because the (+) Limit is NC but the (-) limit along with Home are NO so doesn't have the safety on the (-) limit side if wire breaks.!

If you used all limits with NC wired in series on one input and homes with NO wired in parallel then you'll be safer.


I was wonder how you get away with having only one sensor, must use soft limits in Mach for safety. I've seen 3 sensors solution: limit+ limit- and home in one axis, but I think is not needed.
Correct me pls. if we I am wrong.

No Softlimits are optional and not required you still have Limit switch safety.
Maybe what your not realising is that Mach only Watches Limit Inputs when working and ONLY watches Home Inputs When Homing and Ignores Limits while doing so. It also by default Moves one axis at a time so only looking for one Input to change state. If all set to same Pin # then any will do for mach.

This is why you can share one input for ALL axis homes & limits provided they use NO switches. Mach doesn't know or care which Switch triggered it just responds to the trip.
So if cutting it see's this trip and knows it's a Limit so E-stops.
If it's homing then it knows the Axis it's moving and when see's Home Input change state it sets the Home position for that Axis. Then moves onto next Axis and does the same. It doesn't care which switch tripped so in practice you can actually set say the X axis Home by triggering the Z or Y axis switch.!

The ONLY time it won't work is if you have changed the HOMING sequence so 2 or more Axis home at same time. In this case you need separate Home inputs for each axis.

Tom J
24-11-2015, 07:59 PM
This is why you can share one input for ALL axis homes & limits provided they use NO switches. Mach doesn't know or care which Switch triggered it just responds to the trip.

Got it, but not quite to the end. How than having NO switch will provide safety on the limit side if wire breaks?

JAZZCNC
24-11-2015, 08:23 PM
Got it, but not quite to the end. How than having NO switch will provide safety on the limit side if wire breaks?

You can't have continuity safety with NO switches which I did say this in other post.

Tom J
24-11-2015, 10:41 PM
Summarize, if I use TB6550 or similar BOB which has only 5 inputs: 1-X, 2-Y,3-Z,4-Limit/E-stop,5-GND than 3 switches used as home/limits detect the ground signal (NC-active low). Mach knows that this axis is in home position.
How should I wire if I use the same switch as Limit? Can not wire the same switch to pin 4 (limit/E-stop)
Using pin 4 will collide with homing (all switches will be in parallel - remaining two will have NC contact therefore no homing)
Jazz, could you please send the wiring - loosing plot.

JAZZCNC
25-11-2015, 12:31 AM
Summarize, if I use TB6550 or similar BOB which has only 5 inputs: 1-X, 2-Y,3-Z,4-Limit/E-stop,5-GND than 3 switches used as home/limits detect the ground signal (NC-active low). Mach knows that this axis is in home position.
How should I wire if I use the same switch as Limit? Can not wire the same switch to pin 4 (limit/E-stop)
Using pin 4 will collide with homing (all switches will be in parallel - remaining two will have NC contact therefore no homing)
Jazz, could you please send the wiring - loosing plot.

You got me bambozzled now and Not quite sure what your asking for but here's quick diagram showing 2 options. Option #2 is probably your best option.


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cropwell
25-11-2015, 01:02 AM
Hi Jazz,

Here's a question for you - If you are using one switch for home and limit does Mach ignore the limit function while homing?

That leads on to another - If you have slaved motors on an axis does mach wind both motors until a home trips and then keeps winding the untripped screw until the other trips, thus squaring the gantry and then do the backing off the home switch to complete the homing and aligning process ? In which case I presume you would need to have separate inputs for each side of the machine.

I see the point of having 2 targets and one switch, I only recently realised that Mach took into account which axis was travelling and the direction of travel when homing. It makes sense of commoning inputs.

Cheers,

Rob

JAZZCNC
25-11-2015, 02:48 AM
Here's a question for you - If you are using one switch for home and limit does Mach ignore the limit function while homing?

Yes if you turn off HomeSW Safety in General Config.


That leads on to another - If you have slaved motors on an axis does mach wind both motors until a home trips and then keeps winding the untripped screw until the other trips, thus squaring the gantry and then do the backing off the home switch to complete the homing and aligning process ? In which case I presume you would need to have separate inputs for each side of the machine.


When using slaved motors Mach De-couples each motor turning back into two separate axis while homing happens which means the motors work independantly but move together in sync towards the home switches. When first switch is tripped that axis motor stops and backs off the switch while the other keeps going then does the same.
In practise provided your Gantry is square and the switches positioned correctly this appears to happen has one action. If your gantry is really out of square then you can position the switches to force it square.
When Both Motors have homed then Mach Couples the Axis again back into one slaved axis.

This does mean that the Slaved Motor needs it's own Home switch on a Separate Input.

Tom J
02-12-2015, 02:51 PM
Machining base for X -rails

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Had to bend frame in the places to be perfectly straight - left those Irwin for overnight to see if 0.8 mm sag is dissapering
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Tom J
03-12-2015, 02:31 PM
I managed to get 0.4mm off the sag, better than nothing, will use the technique like those who do not machine the profile or base. Simply will use filler gauge - industrial sheet in the middle to compensate - do not want to have tension on the bearing block while is sliding from middle towards end.
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After welding so many frames came up with solution - there is not substitute for slow welding with min heat. Mean the welding bed have to be short and fully cooled before we weld again near by.
I put all theory to the bin with current setting to metal thickness and speed wire on MIG.
I use Clarke MIG TEC230 Turbo which is capable to weld up to 7 mm on max setting (switch pos.6)
My profile is 2-2.5mm with plates 5mm and I use pos.3 - current/power and wire speed min as possible to stop splatter but fast enough to get good constant sound (not like a shooting gun)

Tom J
09-12-2015, 07:28 PM
Here is where design doesn't match reality - X drive motor bracket doesn't make the belt tight, I made all the parts in Solid Works myself - using vernier rather than dimensions data and with belt 295mm long error was like 5mm.
No big deal - 1hr+ lost for fabrication.
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Here is the gantry. X motor bracket I will made longer and than will cut slots for adjustments. Lesson learnt
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Tom J
11-12-2015, 11:20 PM
Another fabrication day.
Done some welding, this time I used 0.6mm wire for trial. Have to say that I am happy with results as my profile thicknes is 2.5mm and other plates are 5mm at this stage.
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Welding is all about heat control and avoiding distortion.
Here is my setting for 0.6mm MIG
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All major welding is done I believe. Cable chain-carier, table top, sensor will be bolted.
Here is some shots from today:
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Tom J
18-12-2015, 03:57 PM
Time for Y axis drive. Gantry legs will be connected under the bed by flat steel 50x5mm.
I will use only one ballscrew for moving the gantry as this is desktop size machine (travel distance from left to right is 300mm, forward and backwards only 220mm).
I sacrificed 80mm of travel on Y for bigger distance between bearing block - stiffness won.
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Had to fabricate Ballscrew nut bracket today - picture later.
Than I can center the ballscrew mount (front and back) so there is no tension on screw when turns backwards/forward.
A lot of steps in fabrication depends on previous - all related. Can not jump forward without doing something which have to be done first. Sometimes I loose the plot and do something what shouldn't be doing at that time like - pick up for sensors:
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or sensor bracket/s

JAZZCNC
18-12-2015, 05:18 PM
It's the little details that eat the time but they also make the difference between just OK machine and great machine. This is well on way to being great machine so keep it up mate and no rushing. :thumsup:

Tom J
18-12-2015, 05:22 PM
Thanks Jazz, SolidWorks helps a lot, I print the template before I drill any hole and cat any shape, use automatic puncher to be precise. Can not wait to the end.

JAZZCNC
18-12-2015, 05:54 PM
Thanks Jazz, SolidWorks helps a lot, I print the template before I drill any hole and cat any shape, use automatic puncher to be precise. Can not wait to the end.

Yep I do the same paper and Spray mount it's priceless.!. . I even do the same On cnc machine some times when cutting parts out of large sheet just to be sure they'll fit and not waste material or clash with clamps etc. I then write Tap sizes etc for holes on sheet to remove chances of error etc.

AndyGuid
19-12-2015, 02:22 AM
Thanks Jazz, SolidWorks helps a lot, I print the template before I drill any hole and cat any shape, use automatic puncher to be precise. Can not wait to the end.


Yep I do the same paper and Spray mount it's priceless.!. . I even do the same On CNC machine some times when cutting parts out of large sheet just to be sure they'll fit and not waste material or clash with clamps etc. I then write Tap sizes etc. for holes on sheet to remove chances of error etc.

Thanks chaps, for a desk based worker like me those are brilliant tips! I hadn't realised the benefits of an automatic puncher and I hadn't thought of printing a template. Now to see if the free version of Sketch-Up can print to scale? And find out what sort of spray mount to use?
.
.
.
"An automatic center punch is a hand tool used to produce a dimple in a workpiece (for example, a piece of metal). It performs the same function as an ordinary center punch but without the need for a hammer. When pressed against the workpiece, it stores energy in a spring, eventually releasing it as an impulse that drives the punch, producing the dimple. The impulse provided to the point of the punch is quite repeatable, allowing for uniform impressions to be made." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_center_punch

Tom J
21-12-2015, 10:39 PM
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Got problem with proxy sensor in X axis - not too much room to fit.
Any recommendation for flat body type and 1-2mm range PNP NC like that:

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JAZZCNC
22-12-2015, 01:41 AM
I find the Round type better has they give more adjustment. Use traveling switch then you'll only need one per axis and it can travel with Z axis facing down there's plenty of room on back of there for a bracket and loads of room on top of gantry for targets.?

Tom J
13-02-2016, 12:01 AM
Got some old alu plate - enough for table
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Bed profile was 2.5mm thick before. Now after surface planing is a bit less so I used thread rivet to fit the table top.
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17584M5 countersink bolts

17585 One Y sensor for Home and Limit (PNP NC)

njhussey
13-02-2016, 12:11 PM
Ali plate will make a nice bed. Any reason you didn't put the proxy on the other side where it can't run into the stepper motor?

Tom J
13-02-2016, 01:38 PM
Yes Neil, here is the reason:
17586cable chain took space on other side

Tom J
09-04-2016, 06:46 PM
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So close to the end - Home/Limit X sensor (showing pick up blocks)

Tom J
09-04-2016, 06:59 PM
Working on Z plate. Many problems with low profile rails - will never buy them again. Original plan was to use 5M belt rather than RM14 ballscrew
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Tom J
05-06-2016, 04:05 PM
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All tested - managed to smashed X axis sensor (was sticking out too much and hit the target, another one was flickering when close to target - cheap Chinese sh***t - cost me time replace)

Tom J
05-06-2016, 04:16 PM
Black oxide kit used to blacken the steel parts - mostly mild or bright steel

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Now everything strip down for painting

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I use body filler to cover imperfection
Already lost patience and final result not brilliant
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Tom J
18-06-2016, 12:13 AM
Final look
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JAZZCNC
18-06-2016, 07:31 AM
Looking good Tom.:yahoo:. . . . Now it's time to get dirty. .:onthego:

remrendes
18-06-2016, 09:48 AM
Final look


Is the inductive sensors good for this?
Why did slow down the steppers?

mekanik
18-06-2016, 10:20 AM
Nice build Tom.
Thanks for posting
Mike

Tom J
19-06-2016, 12:57 AM
I do not recommend Chinese sensors, few of them failed before I finish calibration (one I managed to smash)
I tried 2mm and 4mm seems to be no difference in accuracy. I wanted to improve accuracy for homing but there is no difference with decent omron mechanical switch - wasted money in my case.
I use Z18 and Z20 pulley which gives 0.8 gear ratio. Machine mend to mill alloy, so do not need super speed 1400mm/min at 64 microsteps. Might change setting when start cutting P6 alloy or similar.
I use Digital drivers DM 542 - thanks Jazz for advise, much better, smooth, quiet run.
I am not happy with this usb card
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I lost soft limit function over the night without touching anything - was ok, and now machine is in limit but message says that is out - you can not win.
Homing was ok, now every axis trigger home and have to be reset to do another axis till all done.
Reset has to be pressed twice, so often. I think to come back to DOB 25 and LPT port.

JAZZCNC
19-06-2016, 02:42 AM
Tom I've fitted couple hundred Chinese Prox switches and had probably less than 12 faulty ones. At just over 1 each they cannot be beaten by any Switch for the money. Don't use Omron but I'm pretty sure they will be quite bit more than 1. . . .You wasn't trying to use them with 5V was you.?

Regards Controller you get what you pay for I'm afraid and I cringe when I see people say they bought cheap chinese controller. EVERY motion controller for Mach is only as good the Plugin that runs it and NO Chinese controller is supported by Artsoft so your onto loser from the start.
But can tell you decent Motion controller has the same if not more impact than going from Analog to Digiital drives. Combine the two and you have Huge improvement of PP and Analog.

Cslabs are my first choice but you won't go wrong with Pokeys 57CNC or UC300/UC100 if on budget.

Tom J
19-06-2016, 06:44 PM
Jazz I might be unlucky, 2 sensors were blinking close to target (made, not made state) all powered by 24V.
XHC board wasn't budget 105, yes you correct they as good as plug-in, second one only works - sort off.

JAZZCNC
20-06-2016, 10:05 AM
XHC board wasn't budget 105, yes you correct they as good as plug-in

Yes it is Budget it's just over priced.!!:cower:

Tom J
21-06-2016, 09:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7i-KkY_R2g

Still not happy with the speed of X axis. Motor had to be slow down to 1450mm/min.
Z and Y goes above 2000mm/min.
Today I run only ballscrew nut with everything loose and still stalling.
I remember noticed that on dry test (driver - motor) one was stalling at much lower speed.
My motor is 23HS8630B with 1.6mH phase inductance, powered by 24V only, 6 cables (4 used only +A-A+B-B)
I use 4 wires so winding are in series 0 is not in use

18750
I will keep it connected that way do not want to sacrifice torque at low speed, so need more voltage.
Am I correct?

Clive S
21-06-2016, 11:36 PM
Tom 24V won't even get it out of first gear. but it will depend on what drivers you are using. if you have decent drives running about 50-70V it should fly.

Tom J
21-06-2016, 11:39 PM
Tom 24V won't even get it out of first gear. but it will depend on what drivers you are using. if you have decent drives running about 50-70V it should fly.

I use DM542, they can handle max 50V, so I can not safely plug in to my big box
18751

Clive S
21-06-2016, 11:43 PM
Ok well can you try it at 45V and see how it goes

Tom J
22-06-2016, 12:02 AM
... will post results with 41.5V, that what I've got from torus trafo 2x30V 2x7A, after rectification voltage went up nicely.
Waiting for GBU805 - Bridge Rectifier 8A 600V (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191500580163?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and capacitors.

JAZZCNC
22-06-2016, 12:29 AM
... will post results with 41.5V, that what I've got from torus trafo 2x30V 2x7A, after rectification voltage went up nicely.
Waiting for GBU805 - Bridge Rectifier 8A 600V (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191500580163?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and capacitors.

Tom like I told you in PM you sent me.!! Voltage makes big difference to speed but even more so with Series wired motors. You'll see improvement with 42V but if you want real improvement then buy some 8 wire motors and wire them parallel. With series wound motors you'll need much more than 42v to get decent speed.

Tom J
25-06-2016, 04:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIxBAPsGKjo

JAZZCNC
25-06-2016, 05:05 PM
Volts make prizes.!!! . . . . Nice looking machine Tom and very well made . .:applause:

Clive S
25-06-2016, 07:10 PM
Tom it looks like you could increase the acel settings. Have you thought about putting a W.C spindle on it?

Nice machine.

njhussey
27-06-2016, 11:46 AM
Nice build Tom :thumsup:

routercnc
27-06-2016, 01:23 PM
Much better now.

Looking at your control box picture in post#66 the stepper motor cables are very close to the toroid - seems to run OK without load and without spindle running but one to watch if it glitches ?

Tom J
28-06-2016, 09:13 PM
Tom it looks like you could increase the acel settings. Have you thought about putting a W.C spindle on it?

Nice machine.

Waiting for 48V PSU and will try to bring voltage to 45V and tune again.
I had one 1.5 Kw fi 60mm, but was leaking so had to send it back.
2.2kW is way too big.
See on design:
1880318800188011880218804

Tom J
28-06-2016, 09:19 PM
Much better now.

Looking at your control box picture in post#66 the stepper motor cables are very close to the toroid - seems to run OK without load and without spindle running but one to watch if it glitches ?

Picture 66 shows different control box - 7A biger machine and was unfinished - cable runs on other side and all are screened and grounded to the plate. Inverter is outside with built in emf.

JAZZCNC
28-06-2016, 11:52 PM
Waiting for 48V PSU and will try to bring voltage to 45V and tune again.

Be careful Tom because these drives don't tolerate much over 52V Spike so if your Input voltage varies very easy to peak above 50V.
Certainly don't go above 45V.

Tom J
29-06-2016, 09:10 PM
Be careful Tom because these drives don't tolerate much over 52V Spike so if your Input voltage varies very easy to peak above 50V.
Certainly don't go above 45V.

Great stuff.
Just tested:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-DC-5-12-24-48V-Switching-Power-Supply-Lighting-LED-Strip-Voltage-Transformer-/351624473683

I can adjust voltage from 32-57V DC and there is no spike on start up.
still have to find sweet spot below 50V taking emf into account.

JAZZCNC
29-06-2016, 09:42 PM
Ok thought you was talking toroidal transformer. Personaly Not fan of these type of supplys because they can Clamp and lock up if the back Emf gets high. That said If your not flying about with fast direction changes and on light-ish machine probably not have any issues.?

Tom J
29-06-2016, 09:57 PM
I only temporarily hook up toroidal trafo , this gave me only 40V (2x30V AC).
My control box is very small same like machine so end up with Chinese power supply - not so big fun of them, but hey ho.

Jazz what do you mean by clamp and lock up when EMF gets high?

JAZZCNC
29-06-2016, 10:17 PM
Jazz what do you mean by clamp and lock up when EMF gets high?

The PSU can have protection circuitry which trips the PSU into fault mode if voltage or current rise above certain threshold. So if the back Emf from motors is high. ie: Like when changing direction at high speeds with heavy gantry the current can spike above this amount and cause trip.

The caps in toroidal supply absorb this back EMF so it's not problem.

Tom J
26-03-2017, 11:47 PM
Update to control panel

Previous USB controller XHC was working fine - only issues i had was with plug in - few bugs like homing stopping after each axis.
Never lost signal, no interferance
Home had to be pressed another time for Y and Z unless they are very close to home position.
Ref All Home
X axis which reached the home stopped homing and cause Reset.
Ref home again and the X axis which was in home moved a bit and and start homing Y
Y in home but and reset triggered, so home all again.
This will moved X for 2nd time, Y again for 1st time after being homed and start do Z
Now I have to back a bit XYZ and home all - only doing that was posible to home all in one go.
This was inconvenience to me so I moved to CSMiO -IP/M.

Does anybody got good software / plug-in? Tried few and still the same

Here is my new box
21285212862128721288

Neale
27-03-2017, 12:03 PM
Tom - are you using proximity switches by any chance? I had very similar problems with my own machine - homing was very problematic. I had configured it to home Z then X+Y together. Z homed OK, but I had random limit switch trips while X and Y were moving. Turned out to be because the proximity switches I was using had no hysteresis. What should happen is that switch-on and switch-off points should be slightly separate. Mach3 homes the axis until it trips the switch, axis comes to a halt but slightly overshoots, then backs off slowly until the switch trips off. Machine is now at home position and the switch goes from home switch mode to limit switch mode in Mach3. However, because on/off points are so close, any vibration after that point can cause the switch to trip on again, which is where the limit switch error occurs and everything stops. In my case, the only problem switch was on Z, and might have been something like resonance in the mounting plate for the switch. Perfectly strong enough for its function where there is no physical contact but it's just a flat bit of steel plate edge-welded to the gantry tube, and we are only talking maybe 10um to trip the switch so not much movement needed.

Fix for CSMIO users (courtesy of Dean, whose knowledge of these devices is invaluable!) is to set the home offset position in Mach3 to 0.5mm or so from the actual switch trip position. Axis homes in the usual way, then the CSMIO moves the axis by the small offset and sets zero at that point, enough to bring the axis trigger clear of the switch. After I made that tiny change in the homing and limits table for Z, I have not had a single false trip while homing, and the CSMIO is very happy to do simultaneous XY axis homing. It also means that you can safely move Z to 0 for rapid XY moves without any false triggering as the Z trigger is now far enough from the switch.

Of course, that might not be your problem but in my case, after playing about with switch changing, even buying a second batch of switches (which were just as bad), worrying whether it was noise or interference or something really difficult to track down, the workaround was trivially easy.

And our control boxes aren't a million miles apart either:
21293 21294 21295

I have made some slight changes since I took the pictures - driver feeds to axes are via a row of XLR connectors on the LH side of the cab. I found that I was fitting and removing the cab fairly often when setting up the machine and the hard-wired connections were a pain in the neck. Literally, given their position...

Tom J
28-03-2017, 08:31 PM
Tom - are you using proximity switches by any chance? I had very similar problems with my own machine - homing was very problematic. I had configured it to home Z then X+Y together. Z homed OK, but I had random limit switch trips while X and Y were moving. Turned out to be because the proximity switches I was using had no hysteresis. What should happen is that switch-on and switch-off points should be slightly separate. Mach3 homes the axis until it trips the switch, axis comes to a halt but slightly overshoots, then backs off slowly until the switch trips off. Machine is now at home position and the switch goes from home switch mode to limit switch mode in Mach3. However, because on/off points are so close, any vibration after that point can cause the switch to trip on again, which is where the limit switch error occurs and everything stops. In my case, the only problem switch was on Z, and might have been something like resonance in the mounting plate for the switch. Perfectly strong enough for its function where there is no physical contact but it's just a flat bit of steel plate edge-welded to the gantry tube, and we are only talking maybe 10um to trip the switch so not much movement needed.

Thanks Neale
I use inductive sensors with two targets.
My machine is quite stiff so there is no play or vibration.
I use good quality sensors for X,Z and cheap for Z because is easy to replace.
Switching signals are not erratic, just on off, not like in some cheap mechanical switches where de-bounce have to be used.
As I said problem is with XHC module while homing. Sometimes with external reset - input is received but no action - baggy software.

I made that post in my thread to seek better plug in or software.
I want to sell this module and have peace of mind that will work for somebody better than is working for me now.

Neale
28-03-2017, 10:36 PM
Ah, you mentioned an IP/M, and it sounded as if you were having the same problems with that. A friend of mine recently bought a Chinese router that uses the XHC controller. AFAIK, he is using the latest version of Mach3 with the XHC driver that came with the machine, and that is all working fine. I know that he homes each axis in turn, though. The only homing issue was discovering that one of the proximity switch targets was badly adjusted so the machine hit its end stop before the switch. That's when we discovered that the target was a broken tap screwed into a roughly drilled hole, but it did have a locknut! Quick tweak and all was fine.

If you are satisfied that your machine is solid and beyond reproach, that's good. Mine is all-welded steel but the mounting plate for the switches could be a source of vibration, and there is around 50um backlash in the ballnut/ballscrew assembly, as far as I can measure. That's enough to go between on and off and back again with my switches. I'm glad I went with the IP/M from the outset, although even that has its little firmware oddities, as it lets me work around the issues.