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gatesy
15-11-2015, 03:17 PM
Ihave a mill that was Fanuc controlled. It still has the Fanuc AC servos fitted, and I'd quite like to keep AC servos on the machine, and run it using MACH3.

From the info on there website it looks like the CNCdrive AC servo drive will run the Fanuc servo ok (just might need to change the encoder to a standard 2500ppr one)

It looks like CNCdrive do all the parts needed (including an industrial PC) and at very good prices, but there doesn't seem to be much about them on any of the forums.

Would like to know if their stuff is any good and if anyone has any experience of it??

Lee Roberts
17-11-2015, 11:32 AM
Hi Gatesy,

Did you get any feedback on this?

.Me

JAZZCNC
17-11-2015, 03:50 PM
Hi Gatesy,

Did you get any feedback on this?

.Me

Lee are things slipping thru the Trending section because I didn't even see this post.? . . . .Maybe a bit more Trending lines.?

Gatesy:

Yes I've used there products several times, but not AC servo drives.! The quality is good and they are very helpful people who know there stuff so I wouldn't hesitate to recommended there products based on my experience of products so far.

Drop them an email with spec of your Fanuc motors and they will guide you.

gatesy
18-11-2015, 01:57 AM
Lee

The only reply to my question is the one from jazzcnc

Jazzcnc

Ok thanks, will do. Have you tried their uccnc software? The prices for all their parts seems to be very competitive

JAZZCNC
18-11-2015, 11:10 AM
Jazzcnc

Ok thanks, will do. Have you tried their uccnc software? The prices for all their parts seems to be very competitive

Yes I tried the first 1.0 release and it was Ok-ish but lacked some features (Didn't support Uc300). The newer Release's however have made some Big improvements but I haven't yet had chance to test it yet on a machine.

One thing I will say and just be aware I'm big Mach3 user with lot of experience so kind of artsoft thru and thru.!! I thought Brain and Artsoft's support took some beating for low priced software but the direct support from Cncdrive is better.!!
I'm very active on other Forums and I see they are more active on forums and reply directly to people problems which like often the case turns out to be user setup error.
They are honest and don't sweep any valid issues under the carpet and try to resolve them or explain clearly why it can't be done. Often they seem to have it fixed or implemented in the next update.

To me this level of feedback and support is very important and will make me stick with something when it's not quite right in the hope it does become right or better in future releases. Hence why I stuck with Mach3 and such a fan. (Notice I don't mention M4.!!)

Now I'm too far into Mach3 to dump it because I have it on many machines which use Motion control cards that are Plug-in based. I also support a lot of people who use it and have the same Plug-in needs.
However with the latest UcCnc release supporting some nice improvements, one being Encoder feedback for spindle. I will be using it on a Lathe conversion I'm doing.
I may also try it on Big mill because it will allow easy spindle orientation for ATC and ridged tapping. Both things not easily or cheaply done with other controllers costing much more money.

So ye given the low price go for it is what I'm saying. . :thumsup:

gatesy
19-11-2015, 12:54 AM
Ok thanks.

I did think that given the price I'd just go for it and try it. Most people I know use MACH3, and seem to like it but all say it is a bit slow to respond when jogging manually.

Just need to find an expert on AC servo motors now, as to keep and use the Fanuc ones, or buy some from cncdrive

JAZZCNC
19-11-2015, 10:22 AM
Just need to find an expert on AC servo motors now, as to keep and use the Fanuc ones, or buy some from cncdrive

What model number are the servos.? Doubt they will be any different to any other servo. Will just be 3 phases on one cable. Encoder on other.
You'll just need to know what type of encoder ie Incremental or Absolute. If absolute then you may need to change for incremental.
If incremental but single ended signals ie: common Gnd then you will need to either buy or make a line driver to turn into differential signals.
Older Single ended encoders tend to be low count so may want to change for differential encoders with higher count and save the hassle of line driver and increase resolution.

If Inc and Diff encoders then it's just case of knowing the pin outs and line count and your sorted.!

gatesy
21-11-2015, 11:16 PM
they are A06B-0521-B042 3ph 8 pole, 2000rpm, 1Nm stall torque, 3 amp stall torque, 47v. 2500 pulse incremental encoder.

As you say can't imagine any different to any other servo, but I can't find a datasheet giving details like inertia and how much power is generated when braking

Having looked at the offering on various trade sites such as alibaba they have new 200v ac servos and drives for not a lot of money direct from china, which do not need a separate power supply, and should I wish to upgrade in the future they accept a 10v supply rather than step/direction. Buying one of these should be a plug and play setup, whereas trying to get the Fanuc servos up and running without the relevant info could be a lot of hassle.

Alternatively I could get some AC servos and drives from CNCdrive for not a lot of money, which are also 48V.

I have tried contacting CNCdrive twice about their servos and drives, as to if they offer a 2500 line encoder instead of 1000 line, and if their drive will support this, or if they know if it will run a fanuc servo but have had no response. Doing the calcs though with a 1000line encoder which is their standard fitment it still gives me a resolution of 0.0025 which is more than enough.

Is there any advantage going to a 200v servo over 48v, apart from not needing a separate power supply? The 10v input is not important at the moment, as I have another machine that I could fit the step/dir input drivers too, and upgrade this machine at some point in the future

JAZZCNC
22-11-2015, 12:40 PM
Having looked at the offering on various trade sites such as alibaba they have new 200v ac servos and drives for not a lot of money direct from china, which do not need a separate power supply, and should I wish to upgrade in the future they accept a 10v supply rather than step/direction. Buying one of these should be a plug and play setup, whereas trying to get the Fanuc servos up and running without the relevant info could be a lot of hassle.

Yes given the fact of not knowing the spec's etc then it would make sense given the prices. Not sure if you saw my Mill post where I recently bought some of these Cheap chinese Servos if not it's here take a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW8knRAOr7s
So far just on the bench I'm very happy with them considering the price but time will tell when on machine.


Alternatively I could get some AC servos and drives from CNCdrive for not a lot of money, which are also 48V.

I have tried contacting CNCdrive twice about their servos and drives, as to if they offer a 2500 line encoder instead of 1000 line, and if their drive will support this, or if they know if it will run a fanuc servo but have had no response. Doing the calcs though with a 1000line encoder which is their standard fitment it still gives me a resolution of 0.0025 which is more than enough.

Reading the Drives data they are more than capable of handling 2500ppr encoders so can't see why not. But to be honest I'm not a fan of those plastic encoders they use(if used on there AC motors.?) and by the time you have bought decent encoders then the motors and drives you'll be at more money than the Chinese setup's delivered. For instance 250 will get you 200v/400W servo drive and motor with Encoder cables deliverd to Uk.!!


Is there any advantage going to a 200v servo over 48v, apart from not needing a separate power supply?

Honest answer is I don't know to what or if an advantage.!! . . . I would imagine they make for a stronger motor because the higher voltage will allow more push so to speak and the obvious advantage of not needing separate voltage source. But honestly I don't care provided they work and are easy to fit which they clearly do and are.!


The 10v input is not important at the moment, as I have another machine that I could fit the step/dir input drivers too, and upgrade this machine at some point in the future

Not sure what your meaning here because if you have Step/Dir drives fitted already then surely your Controller must be Step/Dir output.?

Most Modern Servo's allow Both Step/Dir and Analog inputs but the controller must support them and provide +/-10v output that servos input use.!

gatesy
22-11-2015, 07:11 PM
No I'll take a look. But to me pretty much all the cheaper servos look the same! Quite a few UK based companies are selling cheaper servos and they all look the same as the chinese ones to me, and I expect they are the same thing.

That was my thoughts as well, I didn't like the look of the plastic encoders either, and with 48v would mean I'd have to buy a power supply for them as well, which all starts to add up.

At the moment I have no control. My intention was to go with MACH3 or UCCNC, and use the CNCdrive BOB and motion controller, and at some point in the future as and when funds allow, might upgrade to a Centroid CNC control, which outputs +/-10v to the servo drives.

I'll have to have a look at the chinese offerings I think and go from there, with CNCdrive motion control I think

Many thanks for the help and advice

JAZZCNC
22-11-2015, 08:46 PM
At the moment I have no control. My intention was to go with MACH3 or UCCNC, and use the CNCdrive BOB and motion controller, and at some point in the future as and when funds allow, might upgrade to a Centroid CNC control, which outputs +/-10v to the servo drives.

If this machine is decent size and quality then I'd go with something better than Cncdrive Controller. If you watch the servo video you'll see Cslabs Analog controller which gives +/-10v and doesn't require a pain in the arse Bob plus it's ethernet based so much stronger connection. If you still have the Fanuc Servo drives which are+-10v then this is what you need and nothing else.
It's commonly used for retro fits because of it's quality and expandabilty. It's industrial strength with 24v I/O and plenty of them has standard with expansion modules if more are required. There is also a Spindle Encoder Module for accurate threading and spindle orientation.
The Centroid will offer little more than Mach3/4 or Linux Cnc can and will cost much much more money.

gatesy
23-11-2015, 09:23 PM
Had a look at the CS labs stuff, think it's a bit out of my price range at the moment!!!

I originally looked at the CNCdrive products as they seemed very reasonably priced, so think I might end up with some of their products, and servos probably from china if they have decent encoders on them.

The machine I have is a Denford Triac, which I would like to have something like a Centroid or CSlabs control set up for, but at the moment can't justify the expense!! I'd rather be using the mill rather have it sat there another year or so while I try and save up!!

I have another CNC machine I'm building which only needs to index between cuts being taken, so my thoughts were to go with a budget set up on the Triac, and then as and when funds allow upgrade the control system on that, and transfer the budget set up to the new machine.

While I would like to be able to go straight for a CSlabs set up, there seem to be plenty of machines in use that use cheaper parts and perform perfectly well

gatesy
23-11-2015, 09:27 PM
Looking at Linux cnc, is this compatible with MACH3 products, or do I need parts specifically for Linux cnc?

Could I buy the CNCdrive setup, load Linux cnc on my pc and it integrate together, or do I need to do a bit more setting up of the system?

JAZZCNC
23-11-2015, 10:38 PM
Looking at Linux cnc, is this compatible with MACH3 products, or do I need parts specifically for Linux cnc?

Could I buy the CNCdrive setup, load Linux cnc on my pc and it integrate together, or do I need to do a bit more setting up of the system?

Yes and No. Most drives and BOBs will work with Both. But External Motion control cards like Uc300 or Cslabs, ESS etc use a dedicated software plug-in that will only work with Mach3. Obviously Uc300 will work with UcCnc as well.
That said because Linux Cnc is real time Kernal then it doesn't need a Ex Motion control card. What you may need however is More I/O so you'll use what called Mesa cards to provide this.
Linux is a very Good cheap option if your prepared for a steep learning curve and to search for Info etc. It isn't has well supported has Mach3 with as wide user base but often those who do support it are quite knowledgable I believe. I'm not into Linux Cnc so that's far has I can help on that i'm afraid. It's certainly got far wider user base and support than UcCnc thou.

Now Just something to be aware of with Uc300 and some of the Cheaper Ex motion control cards when used with Servos.? There Frequency is low. Often Maxing at 100 or 125Khz. This means with 2500ppr encoder you will be limted to the Max speed you'll get from the Servo motor.
Common rpm for servo is 3000rpm but with only 100Khz and 2500ppr encoder you'll never get that speed and your Max speed will be 600rpm.!!
To get your full 3000 rpm and keep all the resolution your 2500ppr encoder provides you'll need frequency of 500khz.
You can still use Uc300 and get the full 3000rpm provided the Drive allows electronic gearing. This will however come at the cost of Encoder Resolution.

This why CncDrive will use 1000ppr Encoders as the overhead is much lower on there Ex Mo card. Even then for 3000rpm you'll need 1:2 E-Gearing so encoder count is actually 500ppr.!!

Cslabs and Ess for instance have 4Mhz Frequency limit which is well on top of the job.!

More to this Cnc malarky than often realised.. .:monkey:

gatesy
24-11-2015, 12:12 AM
That's what appeals to me more about the Linux cnc is that it seems to be much more like a purpose built cnc control (as in Fanuc, Heidenhain, etc) rather than a cnc programme running on windows. I'll have to explore further I think.

Interesting. This is all the information that you need when deciding on what to buy!

I'll have to explore costings a bit more and explore Linux cnc a bit more I think.

Many thanks for all your help and advice, most useful and certainly a lot to think about

JAZZCNC
24-11-2015, 12:33 AM
That's what appeals to me more about the Linux cnc is that it seems to be much more like a purpose built cnc control (as in Fanuc, Heidenhain, etc) rather than a cnc programme running on windows. I'll have to explore further I think.

Not really it's still software based working on PC limitations.!!
Fanuc, heidenhain etc use Bespoke Hardware mixed with software to provide there High speed high quality pulses etc. So actually in reality the Mach3 and External motion control cards like Cslabs, Kflop etc are closer to Fanuc Heidenhain in this terms because they use Custom bespoke hardware and software combinations.
But Still there is one BIG difference with Mach3 and Ex Mo cards in it's still a Buffered system and not real time. Linux Cnc is real time and this does make a difference esp with servos and encoders. But I Still think you'll have a lack of Frequency issue because of the restriction of the Parallel port Architecture but I'm not sure what that limit is running Via Linux.?

Kflop is worth a serious look actually because think it can run on both linux cnc and mach but again it's not cheap.!! (and I may be wrong on running both.?)

gatesy
24-11-2015, 01:07 AM
Just been having a read of Linux CNC and they appear to have ethernet motion control cards, one example running at 3Mhz

Ok thanks I'll have a look

JAZZCNC
24-11-2015, 05:26 PM
Just been having a read of Linux CNC and they appear to have ethernet motion control cards, one example running at 3Mhz

Yes but again it's not cheap by the time you have bought the Ethernet Card and the Breakout board to match so your still into same or more money.
Then you have to factor in the knowledge required to setup and get the best from these cards. Just Read the Descriptions to see they are not the friendly of beast's hence why I said Steep learning curve required.!
Nice capable cards and software but honestly not for the newbie's or required for a simple Mill like Denford IMO.

remrendes
26-11-2015, 06:40 AM
Hi all!
I'm new in a forum and at first sorry for my english.
Why not a Mesa cards if you go for a LinuxCNC?
Now you can use it with a parallel port and later if you need more speed you can upgrade to an ethernet type.

uli12us
27-11-2015, 11:48 PM
They have a combination between a ethernet card and the motion Controller.
Its called 7i76e, thats the same as the step/dir card 7i76e but with a ethernetcard with 2 expansion ports plus an additional expansion port via serial link. The other ethernetcard they have, has 4 ports.

battwell
27-12-2015, 11:13 AM
i have a uc300 running a large router on uccnc
im so impressed im dumping mach3 on all my other machines
why?- the uccnc trajectory planner is amazing- even when running very fast (20m/min plus) there is no need to switch to exact stop! never rounds corners etc. carving is extremely smooth and accurate etc. (accuracy way better than mach3)
im running mitsubishi ac servos in position mode.
the only thing ive had is a bit of a problem with grounding- causing occasional usb drop outs- although never during a cutting job.
i have done a couple of hunded hours machining with it in nov/december and the only small bug ive found is with soft limits on my machine.
a video of tool length probing can be seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0QyOS9BarM