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chris w
03-01-2016, 08:27 PM
Hello guys, I have got to the stage of setting Mach 3 ports and pins and I have hit a brick wall with what to try next, I am not seeing any led status at all on the diagnostic page I have checked the wiring drawing against my wiring.
i have only wired up the x axis so not to cause too much magic smoke! I can hear the motor buzz when I run auto configure but that doesn't mean that it's right, but I reckon it is good.
i have dir- pin14, dir+ pin1, pul- pin15, pul+ pin2 on the steps/direction outputs on the csmio/ips
i am using leadshine em806 drivers, for info only.
i am struggling to understand the "port" selection but I do believe it's only setting that is stopping me, if anyone can let me have any amount of info that would help greatly,
chris.

Chaz
03-01-2016, 08:30 PM
I found the CS Labs documentation good. Have you followed it?

chris w
03-01-2016, 09:59 PM
Yes I keep going over the info to make sure I didn't miss or misinterpret anything I just don't get the port numbers, they mention a few times that the pin is output/ input number and not the PIN number on the 25 pin D connector which I think I understand, but I don't see where the port numbers get chosen or decided.
on the special settings I see that x is 0, y is 1...... But the "port" settings don't reflect this on examples on the internet this is why I question my settings.
every time I alter anything I try the axis just by chance I have altered the right thing but this takes time,

JAZZCNC
04-01-2016, 12:22 AM
Ok here what you need to do and the pins. They way the Cslabs unit treats Axis is different to mach standard way of doing things so don't take any notice of Mach manual or things you see on internet unless for the Cslabs units.

IP-S plugin uses Channels and by default X axis is channel 0 which translates to pins Dir(+)=1,Dir(-)=14, Step(+)=2,Step(-)=15
So if you want to change X axis to Y axis then you change X to Channel 1. This will now use pins 3,4,16,17 for X axis.
All this is done in the Plug-in Config.

Now where things differ completely from Mach3 standard way is that in the Motor outputs section in ports n pins the ONLY thing you need to do is ENABLE each axis.
None of the other settings matter ie: ports etc with the exception of Step Active low which 99% of time you don't need to touch.
Only time you will change this is if the Step pulse edge on your drives is set to wrong side the Control is expecting. The way to test this is to run some A to B moves and check the axis comes back to the same place. If it's set wrong you'll lose one step for every direction change and it won't return to same place.
In which case you have 2 options.! #1 change the Pulse edge in the drive settings #2 Toggle the Step active low.

Now regards Inputs and Outputs if they are not working it's most likely because you haven't set the Port setting to port10.
After this then all you have to remember is that Inputs start at #0 so pin1 = Input(0) (+) so in Mach Inputs for instance say setting E-stop and using pin1 on the terminal connecter means your actually using Input(0) so in Pin option set to (0) not pin 1.

With Outputs then it works slightly different to how you do Inputs. They are arranged in Banks of 4 with each having 24V & 0V pins and Outputs starting at 0 -3. Ie Output (0) = Pin2
Each bank has 24v & 0V pins then there respective outputs will have there own output number which is different to the actual pin number on the terminal block.

In Mach again you use the Output Number not the Pin number.

Hope this helps.

chris w
04-01-2016, 10:00 PM
Hi jazz thanks for the input, I get the channel per axis gives a set of fixed pins for that axis,
why do I only need to enable the axis does system then "find" the pins used and alter the settings or do the boxes remain at 0??
in motor outputs x is enabled and step port and dir port are set to 10 and there is sod all from the motor but Mach readout thinks it's moving,
so I alter the x axis channel to 1 (which auto disables y axis) and then move my wires (cat 6 I using 2 pairs info only) to the set of fixed pins for the y axis and still nothing.

i also have 24v to terminal 1 on digital inputs and terminal 5 goes to the ALM+ terminal on the drive,
then I have 24v to terminal 1 on digital outputs and terminal 2 goes to ENA+ on the drive.
i checked the voltage is good but there is no led on the csmio or the diagnostic screen on Mach, should there be a led lit showing me it's connected??

is it a possibility that I have fried summat on the input 0 to 15 side if there is no visual indication??

on the inputs I tried setting #1 to #4 to enable and the ports to 10, with no difference.

and I been doing the same on the outputs but only altering 2 at a time and watching the diagnostic page for changes,and testing the axis with the Mach screen MPG,
sorry for the long reply but if I don't give you all the info it's more difficult to understand.
chris w.

JAZZCNC
04-01-2016, 11:57 PM
Chris let take a step or two back to get this working. Then start putting things back into play.

Lets get you moving first.

The reason you only need to set enable in Motor outputs and nothing else is because the Controller software takes over the dutys of dealing with Axis setup from Mach3.
The Controller software by default use's Channel 0 =X 1=Y etc and each Channel has dedicated Pins on the Terminal strip.
So the Ports n Pins settings Don't matter because Mach3 has nothing to do with this anymore. Just set all to (0)

Now Input's and Outputs are jointly handled between Controller and Mach3 so mach does need to know the port# and Pin#'s so it knows where to look or respond too.

So to get you moving just remove the Enable wires from drives. Provided you haven't change the default drive setting this will enable the drives.
Also remove the Fault Signals. These won't be the problem unless the drives are flashing a fault but lets just with start basic setup to get movement.

So now if you have the Axis Enabled in Motor outputs and the Motor Signal wires going to correct Pins you will have movement.

Try this and let me know.

Chaz
05-01-2016, 12:11 PM
Chris let take a step or two back to get this working. Then start putting things back into play.

Lets get you moving first.

The reason you only need to set enable in Motor outputs and nothing else is because the Controller software takes over the dutys of dealing with Axis setup from Mach3.
The Controller software by default use's Channel 0 =X 1=Y etc and each Channel has dedicated Pins on the Terminal strip.
So the Ports n Pins settings Don't matter because Mach3 has nothing to do with this anymore. Just set all to (0)

Now Input's and Outputs are jointly handled between Controller and Mach3 so mach does need to know the port# and Pin#'s so it knows where to look or respond too.

So to get you moving just remove the Enable wires from drives. Provided you haven't change the default drive setting this will enable the drives.
Also remove the Fault Signals. These won't be the problem unless the drives are flashing a fault but lets just with start basic setup to get movement.

So now if you have the Axis Enabled in Motor outputs and the Motor Signal wires going to correct Pins you will have movement.

Try this and let me know.

I had similar problems to get my new servos to work.

Ensure that there is both an 'enable' command sent as well as a 'fault clear'. Both are required to allow the drive state to be healthy before it will accept any commands. This also assumes no limit switches are hit etc.

JAZZCNC
05-01-2016, 03:42 PM
I had similar problems to get my new servos to work.

Ensure that there is both an 'enable' command sent as well as a 'fault clear'. Both are required to allow the drive state to be healthy before it will accept any commands. This also assumes no limit switches are hit etc.

Doesn't apply in this case Chaz because he's using Stepper drives infact it gets in the way when it comes to diagnosing. By default the drives is enabled when not connected and the fault is just feedback to the control which just responds if it see's a fault and there shouldn't be fault in this case.

chris w
05-01-2016, 08:51 PM
I am positive we will get to the other side of this problem and laugh about how simple it was, but we not there yet!
jazz I have put the drive back to the default settings with the dip switches and the rotary pot and disconnected the ENA and ALM terminals, I only connected these because I thought the motor wasn't moving as it needed a enable signal.(for info only)
and the axes are enabled on Mach and the pins are set to 0,
there is the green led on the drive, the red led is off and I have never had it on whilst buggering about,
so all I have connected is the 72vdc the 0v the A+,A-,pul+ and pul-
Going to the terminals on the csmio 1,2,14 and 15.
so I try to move with the Mach screen MPG, then the CS labs MPG and then the arrows on the keyboard and all three result in the DRO on Mach responding but no motor or mechanical movement.

if the phases are wired wrong would it still move but be ruff in movement or not move at all?
thanks guys,
chris w.

chris w
05-01-2016, 08:54 PM
17112
Its connected like this, obviously with power and motor connected,
cheers.

JAZZCNC
06-01-2016, 03:29 PM
Ok well your connections are correct.

Now set the Rotary dial to "C" and set the micro stepping you want then do AutoConfig on the drive. Either using Software or Flicking SW4 2 times in 2 seconds.
You may hear the motors buzz and change tone, they squal at first and you'll hear a hiss. This is normal.

If you have enabled the axis in Motor Outputs and the drives connected to correct channel terminals there is no reason why you shouldn't move.

For testing I suggest you remove everything that isn't required just for movement. Except E-stop. That means MPG Module and any other Inputs or outputs. So limts, homes, spindle output etc.
I can't see why any of these would affect anything but for elimination purposes remove them and start with minimum.

When you have changed these things and if it still doesn't move then go to the Plug-in control and open Plug-in. In the DeBug window you'll see Hm Counters.
If these are changing while jogging then pulses are going out to the drives. This means the drives them selfs are not working.?

Now the chances you have 3 or 4 faulty drives is Nill and would suggest some other problem.? This could be the Enable inside the drive software is set to PNP meaning you'll need to supply current to enable the drive. This is the only thing I can see that would stop the drive working.
By default Enable uses NPN meaning you pull the ENA pin to Ground to disable the drive so it should be enabled if unconnected.

After this then I can't help without being infront of the machine.!!

If all else fails then Re-install Mach3 and Cslabs Plug-in.

chris w
06-01-2016, 10:49 PM
Thanks for the input jazz, we are moving now on the x axis, I disconnected anything that's not needed then tested and no movement so opened debug window and the system state changed when jog pressed so I swapped drive for the a axis ( I only connected the x for trial purposes, damage limitation and all that) still no movement then took the motor off to check the holding torque and that was impressively good so all the signs that "system status" was good my next thing was to uninstall and reinstall Mach but as a last attempt I moved the step and dir wires to channel 2 terminals (z) and the x works fine and does exactly what you tell it to, so I moved wires to y Channel terminals and no response so I put them back to z channel and we run fine!!!
But now I don't want to connect the ALM and ENA signals back to the drive in case I buggered the 0 and 1 channel this way, as its a 4 axis machine I still have enough channels to run it properly I have altered the channel numbers to suit the correct axes and I am going to wire the step and dir signals tomorrow night and get everything else moving before starting on the home switches,
I don't know how the 2 channels are damaged have you any ideas what it takes to stop them working?
thanks,
chris w:yahoo:

JAZZCNC
06-01-2016, 11:24 PM
I don't know how the 2 channels are damaged have you any ideas what it takes to stop them working?

Well I pretty sure it won't be because of the ALM or ENA that's damaged the 5V Motor outputs because 24V General purpose Outputs are completely separate. And the ALM would be using Input's which are definately separate.
The Only thing I can think that would cause this is if you wired the Step & Dir wrong at drive and sent to ground. Because of the way the controller works using differential outputs then the Motor outputs are not isolated for performance gains. Unfortunatly this does come with some risk and is on the users head to make sure they wire correctly.

Read the Info about Differential signals either on Cslabs site, I think there is PDF manual installed when installing Plug-in etc check it out.

Personaly I would double check all connections and cables. Make sure you have channels set correctly and using correct pins for that channel. Then if sure they are blown send it back.
I've never known blown controller without it being caused by user error.! . . . But there's always a first time.!!!

chris w
06-01-2016, 11:32 PM
It must be my fault that the channels are down I suppose it's all part of that very steep incline called the learning curve but I can't afford to take out another channel but I go steady and keep it simple, I will be posting again I am sure about the homes but the more I can do myself then it makes the maintenance of the machine less of a problem,
cheers.

chris w
07-01-2016, 12:18 AM
Are the channels repairable does anyone know?
chris w

chris w
10-01-2016, 08:59 PM
The homing switches are fitted and working on the x,y and z there is also a switch fitted on the a axis and as the a only clamps every 45 degs the switch "sees" when the a is clamped but the OEM had not connected the switch to anything so I want to use it to confirm the a axis has finished moving and the the z,x and y axes can continue with movements,
i can't figure out how to disable any movements in xyz until this switch is made, I can connect it to the inputs ok and see the switch working on diagnostic but what in Mach needs settings for this to work?
does anyone have experience of this?
thanks,

JAZZCNC
11-01-2016, 02:24 PM
i can't figure out how to disable any movements in xyz until this switch is made, I can connect it to the inputs ok and see the switch working on diagnostic but what in Mach needs settings for this to work?
does anyone have experience of this?
thanks,

Do you mean you want to Halt XYZ from Homing until A axis finished Homing.?

If so then this is very easy all you need to do is change the Homing script. By default Mach starts with Z then Y then X then A.
To change then goto Operator menu and choose Edit Button Script. On the Screen the Ref All Home button will flash. Click on it and it will open the script editor.
Now move the line that says "DoButton( 25 )" to the top of the list. The sequence will then be A, Z, Y, X. The other axis won't move until the A axis finish.

chris w
11-01-2016, 03:22 PM
Not a wait in the homing sequence but a wait during program if the a is programmed to move 180 degs and takes 6 seconds to move and clamp how will the z know when the move is complete?
Sorry for not being clear,

JAZZCNC
11-01-2016, 05:53 PM
Ok well in that case then you'll need to create a custom Macro with the commands to wait for the A axis to signal it's finished then turn on any outputs to clamp before passing control back to the main program. You insert the Macro code into your G-code at the point needed.

Works Exactly like tool change does.

Tom J
04-04-2017, 05:17 PM
I have a problem with motor direction. All motors turns forward/backwards but not responding for Dir LowActive.
I use keyboard, my machine layout is:
X (left-,right+)
Y (back+, forward-)
Z (up+, down-)
Orgin in bottom left corner - how I see it

Only Z works like I wanted
YX moved opposite and DRO reads negative value.
I checked all cables all connected like in manual and this thread.
For X:
pin1: DIR+
pin14: DIR-
pin2: STEP+
pin15: STEP-

Step Port: 0
Dir Port: 0

Have tried different output pins in Mach 'Motor Outputs'
I do not want swap the cables over, can't find proper guide how to set the pins either.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks

JAZZCNC
04-04-2017, 06:40 PM
Tom Cslabs doesn't recongnise Dir Low active for changing motor direction. None of the port/Pin are used either so set to Zero. If want to swap axis the you do it in the Cslabs Plug-in and re-assign channels. By default X = Ch0 Y=ch1 Z=ch2. So if want to swap X & Y then just set X=ch1 Y=ch0. No wire swapping required.
You would do this if view machine from front so X runs across gantry and Y along the length. This will make it display correctly or make sense inside mach.

Go to Config/Homes/limits and change the Reversed option. You may have to change Home negative as well so goes right way when homing.

If keys don't do what you want then go into system hot keys and change the jogging keys.

Also if setup Softlimts and you change axis channels you'll need to change these as well.

Tom J
04-04-2017, 08:56 PM
Tom Cslabs doesn't recongnise Dir Low active for changing motor direction. None of the port/Pin are used either so set to Zero. If want to swap axis the you do it in the Cslabs Plug-in and re-assign channels. By default X = Ch0 Y=ch1 Z=ch2. So if want to swap X & Y then just set X=ch1 Y=ch0. No wire swapping required.
You would do this if view machine from front so X runs across gantry and Y along the length. This will make it display correctly or make sense inside mach.

Go to Config/Homes/limits and change the Reversed option. You may have to change Home negative as well so goes right way when homing.

If keys don't do what you want then go into system hot keys and change the jogging keys.

Also if setup Softlimts and you change axis channels you'll need to change these as well.


Thanks Dean
You replied just after went to my cave,
I swapped the cables over A+ with B+ A-with B- and motor goes like I wanted together with DRO
Yes, X travel along the gantry, had problem with Limit overide - mach had to be restarted, than could not jog when soft limit was on.
TBH I have more problems with Csmio than I gad with usb module, at least homing is sweet.
I discovered that motor pins do not do anything will set to zero for clarification.

I have noise or false signal from X++ sensor which is NPN NO inductive sensor with 2 targets (Home Switch safety - off)
While HV enable and my relay is on (power to drivers 48V) suddenly limit switch is triggered - message, but can not see any blink on module. I traced that sensor by individualy disabling inputs and found X++ linmit responsible for that.
My cable are screened. Have one earth point, previous panel had few and was ok.
This is big problem as I do not have limit on X now. Same wiring, was ok with XHC module.
I adjusted input signal filter 50xus but still the same.
Any idea?

JAZZCNC
04-04-2017, 10:28 PM
Could be number of things but why your most likely getting this happening with IP-M and not other boards is because of the speed and sensitivity of the IP_M I/O. It's much much quicker than most others to reacting to signals however the down side is that it's less tolerent of bad wiring or Dodgy switches etc.

So this could be number of things and difficult to advise with accuracy without seeing more or being in front of machine.

I'd start by putting the Signal filter back to default = 1. Shouldn't need this and I've never had to raise this on any machine even when using cheap mechanical switches or prox switches. Having set high will drasticly slow down the reaction times but more importantly will mask any real issues.

Next I'd go back to the start and trace all wires to make sure none lose or shorting etc. Then check the switches closely, swap over to other axis and see if moves etc.
The IP-M is rock solid with noise so i'm confident it will turn out to be wiring or switch at fault.

Sorry can't helo more than that.

Neale
05-04-2017, 09:14 AM
Does the false limit trip happen with one axis in home position, or away from home position? I had a similar problem which was caused by the Z axis homing but not moving far enough from the prox switch once homed and causing it to randomly trigger while the other axes were moving. This was also with CSMIO. Fix (thanks to Jazz) was to set Z home position offset 0.5mm from physical home position (Mach3 homing parameters) so trigger clear of switch. Have not had a false trigger since. I had worried that it might be noise problems (limit switch and motor cables in same cable chains, etc) but CSMIO seems pretty good.

Tom J
06-04-2017, 04:25 PM
Does the false limit trip happen with one axis in home position, or away from home position? I had a similar problem which was caused by the Z axis homing but not moving far enough from the prox switch once homed and causing it to randomly trigger while the other axes were moving. This was also with CSMIO. Fix (thanks to Jazz) was to set Z home position offset 0.5mm from physical home position (Mach3 homing parameters) so trigger clear of switch. Have not had a false trigger since. I had worried that it might be noise problems (limit switch and motor cables in same cable chains, etc) but CSMIO seems pretty good.

Neale
Its quite hard to determine what actually happens, as there is no light either on switch or input light on module when trip occures.
My sensor is close to the motor Z - even closer after upgrading them for bigger 8 cables one.
21360[/ATTACH
Dean's feedback open my mind to one thing. I use HV enable with manual start push button, so after reset nothing happens till I press the button and send current the motors.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]21361
21362 - (drawing not complete yet)

There must be poor screen on signals cable from switch - will moved input to different axis to see if this will send the same fault - think it will.
I run all cables in one chain - no so much room left 30% maybe, it is last time when I us such a small control box - much harder to work with - small machine small box:)