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examorph
03-01-2016, 10:26 PM
Hi Everyone,

As this is my first post here, let me start by saying that I have never built a CNC machine before and other than a general college course on CNC/machining and reading this forum/CNCZone, I have had very little experience with either CNC or machining so hope you guys can keep me right :encouragement:

Following the advice given to others on here, I started reading through the build logs section of this forum and found a few designs I liked and also many handy tips that should help me along the way. I think I am now at the stage where I can start this build log to develop the design and hopefully soon start building! Please see following summary of the design:

Requirements -

Machine profiles out of Wood/MDF
Aluminium work ranging from machining profiles from plate and also machining blocks for which typical maximum total cutting depths are around 30mm
Able to do some detailed work with both wood and aluminium like the Aztec calendar posted here (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/4513-3-Axis-CNC-router)


I understand that one machine cant suit all materials/requirements and so I will be more than happy if the machine is slow at cutting wood but is also strong/stiff enough to machine aluminium.

Design -
The attached is what I drew up based on what has been designed and seemed to work for others on this forum, the guts of it being based on Noplace's design (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/8334-New-Build-1000x600x200mm-%28newbie%29/page11) and gantry on Ivars design (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7412-First-steel-diy-CNC-router-build/page3).

171061710317104171011710517102



Cutting Area approx 750 x 400 x 100
2.2kW Chinese Water cooled spindle
Rails are HGR20 on all axis (dimensions: 1000mm/600mm/300mm ) with wider type carriages on the X axis only
Ball screws are 1050mm 1610 (double) on X Axis, 650mm 1610 (single) on Y Axis and 250mm 1605 (single) on Z Axis
Motors are 3x NEMA 23 3.1Nm. One motor has been used with a belt drive for the double screws on the X Axis based on JAZCNC's setup here (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/4513-3-Axis-CNC-router). This is mainly because I will be using LinuxCNC and have heard it doesn't support slaved motors.
Frame design, Z-axis motor and ball screw covers are also based on JAZCNC's design here (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6674-Stell-frame-cnc-1500X1000-Adjustable-table-your-opinion-please/page3). Frame is from 50 x 50 steel box section with larger sections being 100 x 50 (3 or 4mm thick). Side plates on the gantry are 10mm thick steel and all other plates including Z-Axis assembly and X-axis support bearing support plates are 20mm thick aluminium.


Some initial Questions -
1. Am I heading in the right direction with this setup or does it make more sense to look at something different?
2. Will 4x M8 bolts supported by the aluminium blocks tapped 15mm on each side of the gantry be enough to support the full gantry? Would it be better to make the supports from steel and weld the gantry box section to this with holes in the box section to get access to the carriage bolts?
3. What is the recommended thickness for the gantry box section? I will be using 3 of 4mm for the frame.
4. I have seen mention of Bearing spacing/aspect ratio on the forum so from the model, measurements taken between the inside of rail blocks and inside of rails are as follows:
X Axis - 42.74mm between blocks, 680mm between rails
Y Axis (Gantry) - 40.50mm between blocks, 150mm between rails
Z Axis - 30mm between blocks, 130mm between rails
Will this be OK or is adjustment of these dimensions required?
5. Is compressed air a requirement for when machining Ali? If so, I will need to build a compressor into my budget.

I haven't ordered anything yet as this is my first build and know for sure that I have cocked up on something somewhere! So I look forward to all the comments/guidance you guys can provide.

JAZZCNC
04-01-2016, 01:23 AM
Erm i think you should look at your Frame section size in the model because it looks too large to be 50mm and out of proportion. This can affect how things fit so worth putting write now.

As for the rest then it's mostly there with just a few exceptions.
You need ends on Gantry to help stiffen the gantry up.
Brace the ballnut Drop bracket on the Gantry ballscrew and try to keep the Drop brackets on the Slaved axis to shortest possible length.
Put some short legs on it or adjustable feet it will make setup easier.

1 x 3Nm motor driving two screws with belts will struggle so I'd think about using larger motor. 6nm would be better but unfortunatly this means nema 34 and plenty of volts. Idealy Mains voltage drives.
Or other option is to use higher pitch 20mm and gear it 2:1. This will double your torque and lower the actual ballscrew speed so reducing chance of whip and resonance but will give roughly the same speed as 10mm pitch.

Material thickness then 4 mm for steel box and if Gantry is Ali then thick has possible idealy 10mm.

Yes Air is required for cutting ali properly mainly to clear chips and stop re-cutting.

Clive S
04-01-2016, 08:16 AM
Hi Examorph and welcome to the forum. Its nice to see that you have done a lot of research into this and I think you will do well.
I would not buy any electronics etc until you are well on the way with the build as no doubt things will change with time. I notice you are going with Liniuxcnc you are correct that it is not easy to slave with it although some have done it with extra electronics (but not for the feint hearted). Will you be going down the Mesa route ie 5i25 and 7i76 cards.
.
Good luck with the build and has been said all questions are good even the dumb one's as they will save you a lot of time and money.

routercnc
04-01-2016, 01:26 PM
The Y axis front plate looks like it is a long way from the front of the gantry, perhaps 20mm or so? This reduces the stiffness for no real reason. I would aim for a gap of 5mm or so depending on how accurate you think you can make everything / flatness of gantry section.

Also the X axis connection down to the ballnut looks a bit less stiff than it could be. Can it be optimised a bit more? Maybe raising the ballscrews a bit in Z and mounting the ballnut to the [I]underside of the X axis bearing plate (bolting in the Z direction instead of Y direction). I think I would use another spacer / packer piece under the bearing plate to avoid raising the ballnut too much and creating a problem attaching the bearings and steppers into the frame at each end. You may even be able to mount the ballscrews closer to the sides of the frame (in Y) which all helps.

examorph
06-01-2016, 01:12 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments, please see below revised design showing modifications are per your suggestions (I think :nevreness:).

171141711517116

Still need to figure out some of the finer details for fittings, positions, etc but think it will be OK for initial review.

JAZZCNC - I checked and checked again and its definitely 50x50mm box section drawn in SolidWorks all to scale (although spindle might be out as this was a copy/paste job :whistle:). Might look off because of the machine being quite small compared to others (750 x 400 x 100 cutting area).
The ends on the gantry are welded and don't go all the way as I wasn't too sure how else to get access to the bolts. Gantry is all steel, would 4mm box section for this be OK also?
To confirm, as the size of the machine is fairly small, would it still need the 20mm pitch screws or larger motor for the X-Axis or can it do without? If needed, are they 2020 ball screws?

Clive S - Sorry I have never heard of the mesa route before and still after reading up on it I have no clue :hopelessness: does the 7i76 replace the BoB and 5i25 act as some sort of motion controller?

RouterCNC - Simplest way I could think of pulling up the X Axis screws was just to stick it onto some box section and weld wherever it needed to be as well as using a 5mm aluminium spacer to help align things as suggested, will this do the job?

Thanks again for the comments and guidance guys.

Clive S
06-01-2016, 10:27 AM
Clive S - Sorry I have never heard of the mesa route before and still after reading up on it I have no clue :hopelessness: does the 7i76 replace the BoB and 5i25 act as some sort of motion controller? Ok This is the forum for Linuxcnc stuff. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/index and this post will give you an idea https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/27-driver-boards/29169-mesa-5i25-and-7176-getting-started?limitstart=0.
This is where you can get them in Europe http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63.
.
Basically the 5i25 is the card that goes into a pci slot in the PC (Linuxcnc is a real-time op system and does the motion controller stuff) and the 7i76 is the BOB for all the input/outputs etc.

examorph
07-01-2016, 10:26 PM
Thanks for explaining this to me Clive. Reason for LinuxCNC was really just because it was free, but after looking at the boards it may end up being cheaper and easier just buying a Mach 3 License and one of these boards (http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-122).

I updated the design slightly to raise the Y Axis ball screw by sitting it on some box section, similar to the X Axis (not sure if it would be stiffer buying wider box section and turning it 90 degrees or maybe also taller and having it sit at the base of the 'L' ?). Another reason for doing this was that I found on kincreaky's build log that Chai could supply these (http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8145&d=1359998469) so I added them to all 3 axis and will get them with the rails/screws as it will save shipping.

171521715317154

This also gives me enough space to go with a belt to drive the gantry screw which might be better?
I remember reading somewhere that 25mm end machining is recommended when using pulleys, will this be enough in my case or do I need more?

routercnc
07-01-2016, 10:40 PM
The X axis bearing connection looks better now. For info you can buy ballnut mounts off e-bay which are longer than the one you have drawn so give a bigger footprint and are stiffer. They are connected by 4 bolts, not 2 which is better.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ball-Nut-Mount-Bracket-Conversion-Flange-Nut-Mount-For-1605-1610-16mm-/191573906835?hash=item2c9ab1d593:g:I0QAAOSwHnFVjdo i


On the Y axis the 2 ways of mounting the ballscrews you have drawn are probably similar in stiffness so go for what seems most practical to make - but how will you mount that box section end-on? You mention turning it around which would be better.

examorph
07-01-2016, 10:52 PM
but how will you mount that box section end-on?
I was planning on welding it direct to the gantry box section as its all going to be out of steel, would this be ok?

You mention turning it around which would be better.
Ok thanks, will turn the ball screw supports on the Y Axis around and use 70 x 50 box section to leave some clearance on each side.

Clive S
07-01-2016, 10:55 PM
Examorth The board that you linked is the pmdx Is an excellent BOB but for the best results it will need a motion controller like say the Ethernet smooth stepper as the PP on pc's these day are flaky to say the least. There will be more support on this forum with Mach3. Good luck with the build.

CanonGuy
08-01-2016, 07:48 PM
Thanks for explaining this to me Clive. Reason for LinuxCNC was really just because it was free, but after looking at the boards it may end up being cheaper and easier just buying a Mach 3 License and one of these boards (http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-122).

I updated the design slightly to raise the Y Axis ball screw by sitting it on some box section, similar to the X Axis (not sure if it would be stiffer buying wider box section and turning it 90 degrees or maybe also taller and having it sit at the base of the 'L' ?). Another reason for doing this was that I found on kincreaky's build log that Chai could supply these (http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8145&d=1359998469) so I added them to all 3 axis and will get them with the rails/screws as it will save shipping.

171521715317154

This also gives me enough space to go with a belt to drive the gantry screw which might be better?
I remember reading somewhere that 25mm end machining is recommended when using pulleys, will this be enough in my case or do I need more?


Not that it matters too much, but you have the rail carriage flipped upside down from, on the left hand side as seen in the second photo

routercnc
08-01-2016, 10:11 PM
[QUOTE=examorph;75595]I was planning on welding it direct to the gantry box section as its all going to be out of steel, would this be ok?

Sorry, missed that it was a steel gantry. Then end-on as originally drawn in post#7 would be slightly stiffer. Go easy on the welding to minimise the gantry warping.

examorph
08-01-2016, 11:05 PM
CannonGuy - Thanks for spotting the upside down rails on the one side, it was me being lazy and mirroring everything along the mid plane!! Will probably leave it as a mirror as the feature tree on the SW assembly is already starting to get crowded.

routercnc - Thanks for confirming. I read on a few build logs that people have been keeping the temp below 60C to reduce warping, so will probably stick to this. I have a stick welder but can get a mig arranged if you guys recommend it?

Speaking of welding, do you guys recommend the epoxy leveling route on the x axis for a build this size? With the Y and Z axis do you normally not do this?

routercnc
09-01-2016, 11:26 AM
In principle epoxy levelling is worth-while on both the X (longest) and Y (across gantry) axes otherwise you are only getting some of the advantages.

In your case the Y axis will be difficult unless perhaps you epoxy the top rail, then when dry and the rail is fixed turn it upside down and use a DTI to dial in the other rail whilst it has a fast setting compound under it? I've not used them myself but I think Dean has talked about some kind of putty instead of shimming?

For the Z axis epoxy is not required as you would ideally use Aluminium EcoCast plate which should be pretty flat to start with. Alternatively you can use standard aluminium plate and skim it flat on a milling machine as the part is quite small.

With the welding MIG is nicer to use, but should be OK with stick/ARC for what you are doing.

JAZZCNC
09-01-2016, 03:02 PM
I see a few things I'd look at. (I realise now why it looks strange.? You have drawn box section with square edges and normally they are radiused which makes the tubes look larger.1)

Gantry mounting is weak point. No end support will let it resonate with only lower bolts supporting the upper rectangle. You are using only fraction of the plate to sit it on and with only 4 bolts inline. You would be better extending gantry width to cover the whole bearing plate width and have square 4 bolt pattern.

Has I mentioned in reply to your PM I'd look at ways to protect the ballscrews from debris. The screws are a little high and funerable. I'd be looking to add gantry sides which drop down the sides to allow screws to be lower and drop on the inside of the screw so covers can be added without interference from bearing plates. The gantry side also strengthens the gantry.

Regards welding then you have a lot of tubes all intersecting at the same points which means a lot of heat will be generated there. Idealy you should try to offset any tubes so the don't all meet at the same points. This will reduce warping and stress.
You also have tubes you don't need the Centre vertical ones for instance. The diagonal ones are enough and it's less welding, less heat and distortion. (see pic)

Mig welder is far better than Arc when comes to heat so if you have access to one I'd use it.

I'd also extend the Top rail 100mm past the end this will allow spindle to pass end giving more flexabilty to machine.

Regards PMDX then you want 126 BOB not 122 it's far better. If you go with Belts then buy Cslabs IP-M.
17158

examorph
09-01-2016, 11:14 PM
routercnc - Thanks, will go down the epoxy route on the X and EcoCast plate on the Z.

JAZZCNC - Thanks for spending the time making the changes to the model to show me, this is much appreciated!
Any chance you could send me the SW files for this please or let me know what size rad it is and I will draw it up? Also, just to confirm as I haven't done much machining so not sure, what flexibility does the spindle overhanging extra 100mm give you? Is it normal to machine stuff which sits off the end of the table?
I will get a Mig welder arranged as suggested and also have a play about with the gantry sides and see if I can setup what you've recommended, should have some images up for comment soon.

JAZZCNC
10-01-2016, 03:02 PM
JAZZCNC - Thanks for spending the time making the changes to the model to show me, this is much appreciated!
Any chance you could send me the SW files for this please or let me know what size rad it is and I will draw it up?

I liked the Bloody Hell version better. . .Lol

The changes to the model took 5mins. You need to learn how to use Weldments and structural members then frame design is simple, quick and accurate.
I'll send the model back to you with a few more changes and suggestions based on what you've drawn already. I haven't changed what you did at all just added a new configuration with my frame etc so you can flick back n forth and see the diffference.

You'll also see how I made the frame.!!

The extra 100mm doesn't affect the machine stiffness but does make it more versatile. Ie cutting dove tails on draw ends, cutting locks or hindges into doors. Machining over height parts that won't fit under gantry or using extra long reach tools. It also allows an easy way for a 4th axis without affecting the cutting area or having to fit or remove everytime use machine.

examorph
10-01-2016, 03:35 PM
I liked the Bloody Hell version better. . .Lol
Haha, well in that case then, Bloody Hell Dean! Cheers for all the help!
Got a habit of going back over emails and making them more formal at work, think I carried that through here too :witless:

Looking forward to seeing how you done the models and checking out Weldments and structural members on youtube now.

examorph
11-01-2016, 12:47 AM
I made a few changes to the gantry sides as suggested:
1717417173171751717617177
Side plate is 10mm thick steel welded to gantry box section. Clearance between the frame and gantry sides is 10mm, so need to be sure that bolts which go into the ball nut bracket are only M5 so that the head doesn't stick out too far.

Images of X Axis carriage support plate also attached, thought it might be easier for access if I followed other designs on this forum and had bolts running into the side. If you think the 4 bolt square pattern on top face would be better, I could probably cut a slot in the gantry base 'L' to get access to them and have it that way instead?
If holes seem to close on the support plate, would it be worth going with the smaller width type carriages (without the flange) on the X also?

One thing I haven't really thought out yet for the frame is the bed. Will look back through some build logs and see how others have been doing it and get something up for comment soon.

examorph
26-01-2016, 10:36 PM
Some things I am struggling with and hope you guys can help me with please:
1. Does using wider/flange type carriages on the X Axis have any benefit over the smaller width type carriages or am I OK going with the smaller ones?
2. Are there any cost effective ways of setting up a decent bed? I am seeing tool steel and aluminium beds on other build logs which I read can be >£300 :nightmare:

JAZZCNC
26-01-2016, 10:54 PM
#1 They give a little more support but it's not a game changer and using the narrow type is ok if you have them or can't fit the wide ones in. If no obsticles then I'd always use the wide if possible, the price difference is nothing.

#2 Depends what your doing but Don't waste your money on Aluminium bed if your mostly cutting woods because most of the time you'll have spoil board on top. For the main base a good grade ply wood sealed is fine. Then put spoil board on top of this and surface that.
If you need the flatness of Tooling plate or surfaced aluminium bed and plan on using coolant all the time then you'll need something that's stable so spend the money but IME most the time you'll have spoil board on top. And probably screwing into it.?
Most common question I'm asked is "What do I use for work holding" the answer is "Anything that Works".!! . . . I'll Clamp, screw, bolt , stick or suck and often some combination of few of them just to get a job done. Thou by far the most common is screwing down into spoil board.!

DigiSoft
27-01-2016, 12:09 AM
You can check out my thread I am almost finished with my machine.
It is 90% steel

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/5237-This-is-my-first-BUILD-please-help

examorph
27-01-2016, 12:43 AM
Dean - Thanks for clearing things up for me, I will be doing some aluminium work on it but was going to go down the route of using a mist rather than flood cooling, will this still be OK with the ply wood sealed base and spoil board setup? Also, probably a silly question but what are the typical depths for the ply wood base and spoil board? Just checking as I want to make sure I leave enough space bellow the spindle.

DigiSoft - Thanks for the link, I remember seeing it previously. Really nice buildd!

JAZZCNC
27-01-2016, 10:37 AM
Provided you seal very well then yes with Low qty mist then yes Ply will be fine. Problem then comes from your Spoil board. Even Low volume Mist still creates mositure which gets into spoil board which isn't sealed. Often MDF is used for spoil board because it's cheap.

Really if your planning on using any wet kind lube often, even with air, then you'll want something that's resonably stable.

Depths are usually a multiple of sheet sizes so 18 or 25mm etc.

cropwell
27-01-2016, 11:43 AM
I had a resin impregnated board on the floor of my trailer. It seemed indestructible. I was wondering if that would make a good base as it is waterproof.

routercnc
27-01-2016, 01:37 PM
Going back to your sketch in post#19, I would extend the side pieces forward so it matches up along the whole side of the X bearing plate. You can then pickup another bolting point on the front X bearing between the 4off vertical bolts for the X bearing.

This side piece extension would be triangular in shape and fill in from the top of the gantry down to the end of the X bearing plate.

It would then (optionally) be triangular back out to the ballnut mounting point, or just go straight back.

This would provide much more support for the gantry onto the bearings for not much effort (apart from a bit more material).

examorph
30-01-2016, 04:31 PM
Dean - Cheers for the advise. I swapped over the carriages for the narrower ones on the x axis and drew up the frame as per the setup you recommended using 4mm external rads on the section. Only thing I added was the box section running along the back (between the two x rail support sections) to let me mount a bearing for the belt onto (same as yours on post #7 here (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/4513-3-Axis-CNC-router)).

Routercnc - Thanks for the great idea, I updated the design with the following adjustments:

Extending the plate 20mm short of the full bearing plate to keep standard sizes (200mm width x 300 height)
Instead of being triangular back to the ball mount, I made rectangular cutouts on each side as any other way caused it to clash with the aluminium x axis ball-screw bearing supports and as a result, reduce working area.


I am going to try get access to a mill for this, but if all else fails are there any other options for cutting the steel plates?

17424174261742517427
Gantry weight (just side plates and box section) is coming out at roughly 17.5kg @3mm wall thickness. When put together with Z axis, spindle and motors, will this handle OK with the one 3.1Nm motor on the x Axis?

Also, I checked the z extension using the 25mm tall bed/spoil board and the below image shows the spindle end going slightly into the bed at full extension. Would it be worth changing the 100 x 50 box section under the x axis rails to 120 x 50 or maybe higher?

17428

JAZZCNC
30-01-2016, 07:22 PM
I am going to try get access to a mill for this, but if all else fails are there any other options for cutting the steel plates?

Yes easy done without Mill. Print templates stick on steel with spray mount then get some 1mm Cutting discs for grinder which will slice thru that plate like Hot knife thru butter. Follow the lines and away you go will take about 20min per side.




Gantry weight (just side plates and box section) is coming out at roughly 17.5kg @3mm wall thickness. When put together with Z axis, spindle and motors, will this handle OK with the one 3.1Nm motor on the x Axis?

No you'll need either a ratio to increase torque or larger motor. I'd suggest 6.1Nm Nema 34 for X axis and run the whole machine with 65-70V.
Now here's the beauty of this system if you have one already and want to try using Nema 23 3.1nm motor then it's not going to cost you a fortune if doesn't work.
Use nema 23 motor with 1.5:1 Ratio (if using 10mm pitch screws) to increase torque and if it doesn't work then just replace motor with 34 and bore the pulleys to fit new shaft size which will be same or larger than 23. Depending on how you make the motor mount then you may need to alter or change this also.
68Vdc is at the bottom end you'd run nema34 motor and top end for nema 23 so will still give you decent performance so very little risk or cost involved.



Also, I checked the z extension using the 25mm tall bed/spoil board and the below image shows the spindle end going slightly into the bed at full extension. Would it be worth changing the 100 x 50 box section under the x axis rails to 120 x 50 or maybe higher?

How deep.? But in any case I'd lift the Spindle mount up slightly because it's a little low, You only need the Spindle Collet nut sticking slightly below the bottom plate. The slightly higher spindle mount doesn't hurt stabilty and offers some flexabilty if you need to slide the spindle up or down. Which you some times may want to do if using tall material.
I wouldn't sacrifice Strength having too large an extension or hieght for the few times you'll probably need full extension.

examorph
30-01-2016, 09:33 PM
Dean - Cheers again for the help, good to know I can cut thru 10mm steel plate simply with an angle grinder! I haven't ordered anything yet so good spot on the motor, will get in the 6.1Nm to be on the safe side. Do you have any recommended suppliers as I dont think CNC4You do this and also, will it work fine with AM882 Drives?
I lifted up the spindle slightly but think this, like many other things might have to be one which gets put right during the build.
17430
Do you think I am in a position now where I can start getting some of the linear motion stuff in from Fred Lee and start looking at local suppliers for the frame materials? If so, could you please cast your eye over the below list to make sure I haven't cocked anything up?

Linear Rail -
2 x Hiwin HGR20- 300mm linear rail
2 x Hiwin HGR20- 600mm linear rail
2 x Hiwin HGR20- 1000mm linear rail
12 x HGH20CAZ0C Hiwin block

Ballscrew -
1 x SFU / RM 1605-L250mm Overall length- C7 ballscrew with a ballnut with end machined and increase dimension F on end machining to 25mm for pulley
1 x SFU / RM 1610-L650mm Overall length- C7 ballscrew with a ballnut with end machined and increase dimension F on end machining to 25mm for pulley
2 x SFU / RM 1610-L1050mm Overall length- C7 ballscrew with a ballnut with end machined and increase dimension F on end machining to 25mm for pulley
4 x BK / BF 12 support for ballscrew


Some things I am not too sure about are if the reference is right for the narrower carriages, if the Z0 pre-load is what is normally gone for and also if the end machining info is right?

Boyan Silyavski
31-01-2016, 07:16 PM
Hi, a bit of advice.

I see sth strange in this machine. May be i am wrong, but before buying and spending and cutting material, better do a continuity check. Element by element the way you will mount it together and check if thats possible and the difficulties.
I do that with whatever i build and in spite of that some times is difficult in real life to mount things together, there was an element in my first machine that cleared mere 1-2mm or it would not enter. Even that i have checked that 10 times .So dont use just copy paste, Hi but move the elements as they will be moved in real life.

My rule of a thumb is to leave clearance holes at least 1.5mm bigger in diameter, better 2mm. Cause the paint, the welding, etc... And when you weld, aim at precision, dont be in a rush. I have welded 1 meter machine under 1mm precision and 3 meter machine around 1mm. Its not a joke. And it was one of the first thing i welded. By the way 250A mig is best for home fabrication and costs about 350euro on ebay. Later when you can could change gun and cable with a brand one. Thats what i did.

Buy more material and use extra cut to size pieces as hard stops so you could achieve precision mounting. later you would use them for sth. And steel is cheap.

You need light preload, not 0 preload for the bearing blocks. Wider block serve nothing more than easier to mount usually for the gantry legs. On Z almost always the normal blocks are a must. Make sure you buy the long carriages.

examorph
01-02-2016, 12:53 AM
Hi Boyan, thanks for the advise. I looked at the design again and the main areas I think may cause me some headache are lining up the x axis bearing supports with the gantry sides (as clearances are small) so guess there will be a lot of back and forth with the hand file for this, and another area was the ball screw bearing support depths on the x axis being difficult to line up without a mill, so I reduced these in width and made them into spacers with thru holes instead (nut/bolt onto box section), allowing me to again skim them down easily with a file if required.

Also, I noticed that I could extend the rails on the x axis all the way along the box section and reduce the length of box section to better utilize the full length of the ball screw, so the X axis rail is now 1050mm. Front hard stop was easily added with a bit of 50 x 50 box section but for the back, I used 10mm plate as anything over the back face would get in the way of the belt. Not sure if this will be enough?
174691746817470
For the carriages, should it be 'ZA' pre-load? Also how do you define the longer carriages in the part reference and what is the length of these so I can double check the models please?

Boyan Silyavski
01-02-2016, 07:38 AM
Yes, ZA preload. BST Automation aliexpress, Fred if you have not figured the provider. You could use my name as reference and he will give you the right prices. Most of the people here buy the stuff from him. Alsmost always he has the best price and most importantly packs very well and stands behind if there is an error or fault

Hard stops also could be 4 big bolts or small plates welded at the sides that the plate that attaches to the ball screw hits them at end of travel. Your looks ok, just dont like the plates at the back of table, better as in front- box section.

The main mission of the hard stops /according to me/ apart of stopping the machine travel, is to stop it at that moment say just 2cm before ballnut travel ends. They must be nearly as possible square as i mount there the limit switches and they are my reference of squareness. So i use straight edge and make them truly square and weld them at the end when gantry is mounted and squared. If you understand what i mean

So i see the real beauty when the machine frame length or say distance between hard stops at the end of frame is = (desired travel) + 2cm
where travel = ball screw length - length of the gantry legs) + 2cm

So i know i have not wasted spinning mass that does nothing

examorph
01-02-2016, 02:40 PM
Boyan - Thanks for the advise, I will look into the distance and confirm the 2cm as per your comments.

Are there any advantages to using the longer type carriages? Models are based on the shorter ones 'CA', and using the longer 'HA' type carriages will further reduce the cutting area.

Boyan Silyavski
01-02-2016, 06:09 PM
Boyan - Thanks for the advise, I will look into the distance and confirm the 2cm as per your comments.

Are there any advantages to using the longer type carriages? Models are based on the shorter ones 'CA', and using the longer 'HA' type carriages will further reduce the cutting area.

Depends on what you want to cut. as they are very similarly priced and i wanted to cut aluminum i like the long ones. But i like also to overbuild a bit :-) . For wood i dont think it matters anyway

examorph
01-02-2016, 10:51 PM
I also want to be cutting aluminium, so updated the models with the longer carriages (CAD models from here (http://www.hiwin.de/en/Products/Linear_Guideways/Series_HG_QH/Block_HG/HGH/4275)) and replaced the rear hard stops with large bolts (will use a steel plate spacer on the inside of the box section to support these). One thing I cant figure out is if I was unlucky enough to hit the hard stops, would it not end up distorting the frame and cause more problems?

Anyways, the larger carriages didn't make that big of a difference to the work area and seemed to fit OK with the existing setup (slight overhang though) so all in all, seems to have worked out ok.
1748417485174861748717488
I have shown carriage spacing for each axis. Can I reduce or need to increase it anywhere?

examorph
02-02-2016, 09:12 PM
Do you guys thinks i'm now OK ordering in the linear components? If so, hoping you could help me with a few things:

Linear Rail -
2 x Hiwin HGR20- 300mm linear rail
2 x Hiwin HGR20- 600mm linear rail
2 x Hiwin HGR20- 1050mm linear rail
12 x HGH20HA ZA Hiwin block
Do you normally tend to specify the accuracy and dust protection indexes as part of the carriage/rail refereces when ordering from Fred Lee?

Ballscrew -
1 x SFU / RM 1605-L250mm Overall length- C7 ballscrew with a ballnut with end machined and increase dimension F on end machining to 30mm for pulley
1 x SFU / RM 1610-L650mm Overall length- C7 ballscrew with a ballnut with end machined and increase dimension F on end machining to 30mm for pulley
2 x SFU / RM 1610-L1050mm Overall length- C7 ballscrew with a ballnut with end machined and increase dimension F on end machining to 30mm for pulley
4 x BK / BF 12 support for ballscrew

If you spot anything out, please let me know.

Clive S
02-02-2016, 09:59 PM
Personally I would specify the F length to be 30mm ( you can always cut it shorter)

Clive S
02-02-2016, 11:37 PM
examorph I forgot be very clear when you order the screws that that you quote the total length of the screw including the F length. ie. 1605-L250mm including F=30mm length .

If you decide on the extra 5 mm don't forget to change your sizes

examorph
03-02-2016, 12:21 AM
Clive - Thanks for the advice and the heads up. I have updated the original post (#36) to show the 30mm length, will just send a copy of this to Fred Lee when ordering. One thing I am not too sure about is, do they cut this from longer material stock and give you an "extra" Xmm on top of the standard amount or do they just machine back the 30mm and as a result, reduce the original screw length?

Also, any advise on if you normally specify the accuracy and dust protection after the carriage ref ie, HGH20HA ZA C SS ?

Clive S
03-02-2016, 12:49 AM
Clive - Thanks for the advice and the heads up. I have updated the original post (#36) to show the 30mm length, will just send a copy of this to Fred Lee when ordering. One thing I am not too sure about is, do they cut this from longer material stock and give you an "extra" Xmm on top of the standard amount or do they just machine back the 30mm and as a result, reduce the original screw length?

Also, any advise on if you normally specify the accuracy and dust protection after the carriage ref ie, HGH20HA ZA C SS ?

I don't think you are understanding this. I see that you have altered the F length to 30mm but you have not altered the overall length.

The overall length = the end for the BF bearing then the screw part then the BK bearing including the threads and the F length So L = the total length .


Ask Fred for the quotation and he will get back to you very quickly usually within about 36 hours.

Edit I think you did alter the length but check

examorph
03-02-2016, 01:38 AM
Ahh thanks for clearing that up, it was me being daft!!! I understand it now.

Do you by any chance know if he also does some of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ball-Nut-Mount-Bracket-Conversion-Flange-Nut-Mount-For-1605-1610-16mm-/191573906835?hash=item2c9ab1d593:g:I0QAAOSwHnFVjdo i&clk_rvr_id=976330667497&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true
Might be easier getting them off of him as i'm paying for the shipping anyways.

Clive S
03-02-2016, 09:40 AM
Ahh thanks for clearing that up, it was me being daft!!! I understand it now.

Do you by any chance know if he also does some of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ball-Nut-Mount-Bracket-Conversion-Flange-Nut-Mount-For-1605-1610-16mm-/191573906835?hash=item2c9ab1d593:g:I0QAAOSwHnFVjdo i&clk_rvr_id=976330667497&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true
Might be easier getting them off of him as i'm paying for the shipping anyways.When you ask him for the quote include a picture of the ball nut mounting.

But before you order have you designed the frame that you are going to mount it all on as you might need different mountings than those.

It usually only takes about 10 days to get the stuff from Fred.

examorph
03-02-2016, 08:18 PM
Clive - Thanks for the advice. Not sure what other types of mountings are available (other than the ones Chai does). Only place I see this being a concern is possibly on the Z-Axis where I might end up being short for space. I drew the below ball nut supports as reference (not to scale) and was planning on correcting the sizes when I received/measured the components:
175041750517506

Also, adjusted the ball screw F dimension and during checking noticed that the Y-Axis needed shifting towards the right to line up with the motor:
17507

examorph
09-02-2016, 10:08 PM
I have been doing some shopping around for quotes and would like some advice please.
For the linear components the following is what I got back:

Chai = $738 = £510
Fred = $958 = £663
FYI - Local Supplier = >£3,000!!!
The shorter carriages were £100 less in total if I went for them.

Ideally it would be Chai with the shorter carriages but two disadvantages seem to be, hes using a different brand of rails/blocks and also, i'm not sure if the shorter carriages will be enough for possible long term aluminium work. What do you guys think please?

Also, does £140 sound like a good deal for all the aluminium and steel plates (gantry sides, full z axis, bearing supports, spacers, etc)?

Boyan Silyavski
10-02-2016, 07:38 AM
comparing Hiwin to Chinese rails is like apples to oranges. Fred also has the Chinese rails by the way and of course they are cheaper. If you are doubting £100 in a build of 2500, then definitely go with the cheaper.

I am saying this cause if you really want to cut aluminum when you pay 500 for a plate you will forget the 100 you ar doubting now.

140 sounds a good deal if they are precut. Depends though, i buy pre-cut aluminum plates any thickness at 5euro/kg +vat here in Spain. And steel at 1eur/kg but i have the means to cut it.

JAZZCNC
10-02-2016, 12:17 PM
I have been doing some shopping around for quotes and would like some advice please.
For the linear components the following is what I got back:

Pay the £100 extra and get Hi-win from Fred Lee. Also don't need long carriages to cut aluminium the short ones work fine. I've got some Hi-win rails carriages (short) here that where fitted to my old router which cut nothing but aluminium for 5-6yrs and they are still good day fitted and they where second hand then.!!




Also, does £140 sound like a good deal for all the aluminium and steel plates (gantry sides, full z axis, bearing supports, spacers, etc)?

How longs a piece of string.? How can anyone tell you that without knowing dimensions and amount of aluminium.?

examorph
16-02-2016, 01:02 PM
Pay the £100 extra and get Hi-win from Fred Lee. Also don't need long carriages to cut aluminium the short ones work fine. I've got some Hi-win rails carriages (short) here that where fitted to my old router which cut nothing but aluminium for 5-6yrs and they are still good day fitted and they where second hand then.!!

Thanks Dean, went for the shorter ones and placed the order with Fred yesterday, he was really helpful with everything.
Should have the parts for the end of the month as they are on their holidays currently.


How longs a piece of string.? How can anyone tell you that without knowing dimensions and amount of aluminium.?

Was quoted the following for it all to be cut:
Aluminium (All 20mm Thick Plates):
Qty 2 – 225 x 60 @ £11.50 each
Qty 1 – 200 x 300 @ £26.15 each
Qty 1 – 200 x 250 @ £19.50 each
Qty 1 – 200 x 140 @ £15.75 each
Qty 1 – 200 x 60 @ £10.00 each
Qty 4 – 30 x 70 @ £6.25 each

Steel Plate:
Qty 2 – 230 x 300 x 10 @ £6.30 each


Does this look ok?

JAZZCNC
16-02-2016, 04:07 PM
Was quoted the following for it all to be cut:
Aluminium (All 20mm Thick Plates):
Qty 2 – 225 x 60 @ £11.50 each
Qty 1 – 200 x 300 @ £26.15 each
Qty 1 – 200 x 250 @ £19.50 each
Qty 1 – 200 x 140 @ £15.75 each
Qty 1 – 200 x 60 @ £10.00 each
Qty 4 – 30 x 70 @ £6.25 each

Little on the expensive side if just cut pieces. It would all come out of piece less than 500 x 500 and thats allowing for cutting. If machined with holes etc then yes it's cheap.

If just cut pieces of aluminium then Aluminium warehouse are cheaper. But Often worth asking local engineer for good supplier. My supplier doesn't deliver down your way but to give an idea i would get all that for just half what your being asked and that would be Ground cast Machine plate.

Davek0974
16-02-2016, 04:37 PM
Just for reference, these are from Aluminium warehouse, last week....



2
Aluminium Plate: EcoCast - 20.0 mm - 550mm x 242mm
£55.80
£111.60


1
Aluminium Plate: EcoCast - 15.0 mm - 400mm x 160mm
£20.29
£20.29


1
Aluminium Plate: EcoCast - 15.0 mm - 320mm x 160mm
£16.26
£16.26


1
Aluminium Plate: EcoCast - 15.0 mm - 500mm x 160mm
£25.33
£25.33


2
Aluminium Plate: 6082 T651 - 10.0 mm - 471mm x 150mm
£10.85
£21.70


1
Aluminium Flat Bar - Metric Sizes (6082T6) 80 mm x 10 mm - 2000 mm
£22.01
£22.01



Is there a better place to go??

examorph
17-02-2016, 08:48 PM
Dean - Thanks for the advice and yeah, that was just for cut aluminium with no holes/profiles, etc.
Damn, almost half the price...that's cheap! Will ask around locally and see if I can find someone decent. Is there anything I should ask for specifically when requesting quotes for this? I see people go with EcoCast from Aluminium Warehouse, I don't know if many locals would do this so would I just ask for Ground Cast Aluminium Machine Plate? Is there any grade or reference I need to mention?

Davek - Thanks for the reference prices.

Neale
17-02-2016, 09:41 PM
I bought Ecocast from Aluminium Warehouse but subsequently I've been told about MIC6 tooling plate which is sold by Blackburns - branches around the country. Might be worth checking for a comparison.

JAZZCNC
18-02-2016, 02:58 PM
Tooling plate is what you want to ask for. Like Neale says it's often called Mic6.

examorph
18-02-2016, 04:17 PM
Cheers Neale & Dean for the advice, will search around for this.
I am guessing its going to be the same case with the box section also (local supplier being cheaper than online) so will search around for this also. To confirm is it just bog standard mild steel box section or is a specific grade recommended?
With a 4mm wall the gantry box section and side plates alone weigh 20kg (no motors, no Z axis, no ball screw, no spindle, etc) will the 6.1Nm Nema 34 @ 70V with AM882 drives previously recommended handle this ok with good enough speeds for both aluminum and some wood work?

JAZZCNC
18-02-2016, 04:40 PM
Yes just mild steel boxsection nothing special. Don't worry 20Kg is nothing you'll be ok upto 80-90kg.

examorph
18-02-2016, 07:26 PM
Thanks Dean and wow 90kg...I massively underestimated how powerful these things are.
Any chance you have any reference costs for 100x50x4 and 50x50x4 mild steel box section? Will be buying in standard lengths and cutting it myself.

JAZZCNC
18-02-2016, 09:38 PM
Thanks Dean and wow 90kg...I massively underestimated how powerful these things are.
Any chance you have any reference costs for 100x50x4 and 50x50x4 mild steel box section? Will be buying in standard lengths and cutting it myself.

Yes don't underestimate these little things when attached to ballscrews. The mechanical advantage the screws give is massive, it will snap your arm like carrot and carry on like it never happened.!!

It's been while since bought any steel but last time I paid about £35 for 7.5mtr lengths 50x50x4. If you work on just less than double that for 100x50 you'll be close.

longy
18-02-2016, 10:28 PM
Dean, steel is right down in price now with all the dumping from China. Brundle's are about the cheapest I've found http://www.fhbrundle.co.uk/products/300550504__R_H_Section_50_x_50_x_4mm_x_7_5_7_6m_Gr ade_S235 £23.54 + del + vat

UK delivery on orders less than £150 is just a tenner.

Mike :)

JAZZCNC
18-02-2016, 10:48 PM
Dean, steel is right down in price now with all the dumping from China. Brundle's are about the cheapest I've found http://www.fhbrundle.co.uk/products/300550504__R_H_Section_50_x_50_x_4mm_x_7_5_7_6m_Gr ade_S235 £23.54 + del + vat

UK delivery on orders less than £150 is just a tenner.

Mike :)

Ye just looked and I paid £31.50 inc vat and that's delivered but it is only in next village so not million miles away.

examorph
19-02-2016, 12:31 AM
it will snap your arm like carrot and carry on like it never happened.!!
Ahh, i'm gonna have to get used to keeping a finger on the emergency stop :black_eyed:

Cheers for the help guys, will search around locally for suppliers but don't think many will beat the supplier Mike recommended.

examorph
21-02-2016, 09:04 PM
Noticed that I might have some difficulty cutting the motor mount slot accurately on the gantry side, so made it a separate adjustable support plate allowing for the Y axis ball screw to sit more central, more adjustment and lets me get started on welding the gantry before getting access to a mill :nevreness:

176671766917670176711767217673


I am going to start welding soon and have next to no experience with this so hope you guys can keep me right:

1767417675

1. Whats the best way of handeling this, tack up the full frame whilst checking squareness and then weld up fully when happy or do it all in sections?
2. I read on here that short runs are the way to go. Would a 50mm single run along one side of the 50x50 box section be ok or do I do this in two separate runs (25mm)?
3. Are there any parts of the frame I could stitch weld? Maybe the x axis rail support and all of the gantry/side plates? If so, whats the typical size of weld and gap between stitches?
4. Any tips on this/recommended welder settings?

Davek0974
21-02-2016, 09:39 PM
Mig? Arc? Tig? What sort of welding?

Yes, always tack up first, when choosing where to weld, always think of contraction - the two sides of whatever you weld WILL be drawn together as the weld cools, no two ways about it, it will happen.

On a box frame I would tack up and check all square, then weld the inside 90 deg angle on opposing corners first. Next I would do the outside edges followed by the two faces. Welding the inner/outer sides first should help resist the tendency of the frame to buckle if the faces are welded first.

Test your settings well on scraps first.

Davek0974
21-02-2016, 09:44 PM
Stitch welding is fine, in the right place - if you were welding a plate to the side of a box structure or maybe a corner fillet plate inside the legs, I would stitch, maybe 1" runs. For something like box section legs then seam welding is in.

Think of the stresses the part will encounter, it will help decide how to weld it.

examorph
22-02-2016, 09:31 PM
Thanks Davek, I will be using a Mig welder for this. Should have the steel in this week and welding started this weekend.
Will tack up the entire frame and gantry assembly first and check if its all square, once OK I will fully weld/stitch where needed whilst baring in mind contraction.

Is epoxy leveling recommended for a build this size?

Davek0974
22-02-2016, 09:44 PM
The chances of it being square when done are slim, treat it as sections and concentrate on getting each section as perfect as possible, whatever method you use there should be a method of tweaking the fit later - my plasma table is 1500 square, it is made up of two side frames bolted together with cross-tubes - i could shim the joints as needed which wasn't in the end but handy still.

The plasma was built in 2mm box section but carefully braced where needed to gain rigidity. I used about 21v / 140A and 0.8mm wire with a tri-mix gas (hobbyweld5) you need to get hot and fast, don't run the power low because it might warp.

Cant help with epoxy, never used it I'm afraid.

examorph
27-02-2016, 12:21 AM
Hi guys, came home to find that the linear components had arrived today!! Woohoo :yahoo:

1773917740177411774217743

Seems to be great quality and Fred was a great help, excellent service and I understand now what you all mean by him being a great guy. Will keep these to a side until I get the epoxy and aluminium sorted. Blackburns offered 5754 as the nearest grade to MIC6 and quoted me £85 for 500 x 500 x 20 plate, is 5754 a suitable grade?

Also, steel arrived earlier this week so will be welding this weekend and hopefully have a frame/gantry setup soon.

examorph
28-02-2016, 11:21 PM
Steel box section and plate had arrived earlier on in the week:
1775817757
Ended up buying a tungsten carbide blade for £80 to cut this as 5 of the 6 local suppliers I visited advised that the machine had a "non-standard" 25.4mm shaft.
Seemed to work fine the first day but when trying to cut the box section the next day, it seemed to require a lot more time/force, I think I may be cutting too fast and wearing out the blade.
17759
Ended up with a bit extra 100x50 section and too little 50x50 section, I underestimated how much box section it would require and assumed I had more than enough at 7.5m of each. Guess its true what they say about assuming!! Requested price for 1m more of each and changed the design slightly to use the larger box section for the horizontal bracing:
17760
Other than the two sections I am ordering, all box section has been cut, but unsure if some of it is still good as I think maybe 3 sections (bed supports and gantry box section) are 3-5mm shorter than what I needed, will this be OK filling up with weld?
17761
Was hoping to have it all welded up this week but ended up being a slow start with the few hick ups pushing things back a week :dread:
All in all, it was a good experience and even though I had some problems, I enjoyed it and learnt a lot of new things :fat:

Some questions I hope you guys could help me with please:

From what I understand 5754 aluminium is the grade but if specified as tooling plate, would this be OK for use on the Z-Axis without having to face it off?
As this machine will be moved 3 times (welded in workshop, epoxy leveled in a smaller room for heating and installed in a shed) is it worth welding some adjustable feet to the legs?

Davek0974
29-02-2016, 10:04 AM
Hi
I don't think you will be able to bridge 5mm with weld, if you had say five joints you could maybe bridge 1mm on each, better to make the frame fit what you have now, or maybe weld in a 5mm spacer plate somewhere. Done properly this could work.

Yes machined aluminium tooling plate is very good and ideal to use as-is.
Yes, fit heavy adjustable feet, always useful, but not the weedy ones with M8 threads ;)

njhussey
29-02-2016, 10:56 AM
Other than the two sections I am ordering, all box section has been cut, but unsure if some of it is still good as I think maybe 3 sections (bed supports and gantry box section) are 3-5mm shorter than what I needed, will this be OK filling up with weld?

You'll be putting a tremendous amount of heat into the steel if you try to fill it. Why don't you do as Dave says and put a spacer, or cut a bit more off and weld a plate onto each end?


Some questions I hope you guys could help me with please:

From what I understand 5754 aluminium is the grade but if specified as tooling plate, would this be OK for use on the Z-Axis without having to face it off?

Yes tooling plate is the thing to go for, needs no surfacing.


As this machine will be moved 3 times (welded in workshop, epoxy leveled in a smaller room for heating and installed in a shed) is it worth welding some adjustable feet to the legs?


Definately, M12 are the ones to go for.

I was looking at your design just now and can see a potential problem for you mounting your ballscrew nuts on the longest axis (X or Y depending on what you call it!!). You've got them bolted from the back, how are you going to tighten them after adjusting them when fitting the ballscrews? You might also want to do the same for the gantry one as although you might be able to get to it from the top there will be a pulley in the way. I did exactly the same thing and had to change my ball nut housings so you can bolt from the outside, just a thought :wink:

examorph
29-02-2016, 10:07 PM
Thanks guys, will get some adjustable feet sorted (>=M12) and also cut out some 50x50x10mm steel plate to weld to the frame legs for this. Will also make adjustments where I can to reduce the 5mm gap on the steel box section.

njhussey - Thanks for spotting that. The clearance behind the plate is 10mm, think I could get away with using hex heads and tightening them up with a spanner?
1776917768

examorph
02-03-2016, 10:47 PM
Been a nightmare finding a local supplier that does box section without a 7.5mtr minimum order charge, but got one eventually who can do me some off cuts at a 3mm wall for a good deal.

Will the 3mm wall thickness box section be OK for the bed support beams and horizontal supports shown below in green? Will it also be OK to weld?
17786

Clive S
03-03-2016, 12:19 AM
Been a nightmare finding a local supplier that does box section without a 7.5mtr minimum order charge, but got one eventually who can do me some off cuts at a 3mm wall for a good deal.

Will the 3mm wall thickness box section be OK for the bed support beams and horizontal supports shown below in green? Will it also be OK to weld?
17786The main problem apart from resonance with 3mm box is that it is not quite thick enough to tap 4mm or 5mm would be a better option. If it is just for the green bits then it is probably OK

Boyan Silyavski
03-03-2016, 03:45 PM
3mm is ok, if size is 80x80 or 100x100. I wouldn't use it for smaller than that.

No problem with tapping and screwing 3mm, just have to be careful and drill holes using a guide so they are true 90degree square to profile.

Clive S
03-03-2016, 05:28 PM
No problem with tapping and screwing 3mm, just have to be careful and drill holes using a guide so they are true 90degree square to profile 6mm bolt in 3mm I beg to differ its right on the edge and suppose he wants to tap 8mm :whistle:

Davek0974
03-03-2016, 07:26 PM
Yep, I would not tap past 3 or 4mm into a 3mm beam, just not enough thread engagement.

examorph
04-03-2016, 12:40 AM
Thanks guys, to confirm, it's just the green bits in the last post its being used for (2x bed supports and some braces).
Only place it needs to be tapped is on the bed supports, so that I can bolt down the ply wood bed onto there. Any options for this with the 3mm box section? Maybe drill through and use a nut/bolt setup?

Clive S
04-03-2016, 12:53 AM
Thanks guys, to confirm, it's just the green bits in the last post its being used for (2x bed supports and some braces).
Only place it needs to be tapped is on the bed supports, so that I can bolt down the ply wood bed onto there. Any options for this with the 3mm box section? Maybe drill through and use a nut/bolt setup?You don't say what size bolts you want to use. If you drill through the box without a spacer in the box you have the chance of squashing the box of course you could use self tappers.:thumsup:

Davek0974
04-03-2016, 08:15 AM
If the bolts are near the ends of the tubes, get in there first and weld in a reinforcement plate - a lump of 6mm etc welded in from the end would work.

If not then there are very few options really, you could drill a larger hole opposite the bolts so you can pass a socket and nut through to the front but that will only give you strength of the front 3mm section on the bolt, i doubt the hole will make any difference to the beam strength.

valdis034
04-03-2016, 08:45 AM
And how about using inserts? Then you dont have to worry about wall thickness.

Išsiųsta naudojantis SM-G900F Tapatalk 4 Lt

njhussey
04-03-2016, 09:30 AM
Or do what EddyCurrent did and glue in a strip of 6mm flat and drill and tap that...

examorph
05-03-2016, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the advice guys, I ended up changing the arrangement slightly by only making the rear bed support from 3mm box, all other 4 (including front) are 4mm. So there should be enough box section to bolt the bed onto and will leave the back 3mm section as a support.

Spent half the day cutting/grinding more of the box section and the rest of the day, failing at welding :frown: Some horror shows for you below:

1st weld on frame:
17844

:hopelessness: thinking of cutting this off and starting again. It was over two runs, had let it cool down after doing a bit

Few more welds after this:

1783817839178401784117843

Ended up grinding it down and squaring it up many times before I got anything close to square. Ended up with the below, plan is to do both sides and then join them with the sections in between.

17842

Was jumping from one side of the frame to the other when welding and did not go back to weld the opposite face until I could touch it again, hopefully this is ok.
Settings for the mig were 2 Volts and 3 for the speed.

Before I continue welding/assembling tomorrow, could you guys please help me with a few questions:
- Is it OK to go back over welds to fill in the gaps, if any?
- Any recommendations on getting into the tighter angles for welding?
- I ended up running 100mm constant welds down the side of the 100x50 box section, should I be splitting this into two runs. 50mm at a time and wait for cooling before going again?
- From the images shown, does the amount of "overlap" on each side of the weld look like its enough? I was worrying as I only really concentrated on filling the gap and wasnt sure if I needed to drag the weld over each face enough to properly join the two sections.

Davek0974
05-03-2016, 11:17 PM
if i can suggest popping over to here...

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk

You can pick up a lot of good help, *some* of those welds look ok, some look dodgy but all will most likely do the job.

You should not need to re-run a weld, what sort of gap are you bridging? Any more that a mm or so and you will struggle.

cropwell
05-03-2016, 11:49 PM
Have you got an auto-darkening mask. If it is set too dark you will not be able to see properly what you are doing. Also reflections from the back of the glass can make it difficult to see where the weld is going, I have a leather shroud on the back of mine to cut out reflections from the workshop lights.

cheers,

Rob

examorph
06-03-2016, 12:02 AM
Dave - Thanks for the link, it was very helpful in clearing up some of my confusion. Gaps I would say so far have been ~1-2mm, although the rads make them look much bigger.

Rob - Thanks, think a good starting point for tomorrow would be to pick up a decent mask as so far I have been using the hand held mask that came with the welder.

Clive S
06-03-2016, 12:22 AM
A decent angle grinder will work wonders to the look of the weld:applause:

Davek0974
06-03-2016, 09:22 AM
Dave - Thanks for the link, it was very helpful in clearing up some of my confusion. Gaps I would say so far have been ~1-2mm, although the rads make them look much bigger.

Rob - Thanks, think a good starting point for tomorrow would be to pick up a decent mask as so far I have been using the hand held mask that came with the welder.

The mask will be 99% of your troubles - bin that hand-held POS, nobody uses them anymore. Get a reasonable auto-darkening helmet, around £45-50 but will be a life-changing purchase, set to about 10 or 11 on the scale to start with, fast reaction and MIG setting.

Then make sure you have some decent welding gloves at least one on your left hand anyway (assuming right-handed), hold gun with right hand and steady the end with part of the left hand. This will improve appearance and quality no-end.

Watch more videos - MIG is pretty easy to get right, but you need to follow examples, take a few examples too as there are some crap videos out there that will steer you wrong.

2mm is a big gap, get it smaller if possible, if not then use a gentle weaving motion on the run to get the two parts to fuse fully, only do one run but make it a good or at least usable one. Don't forget, you are not just applying weld, you need to get the three parts - two components and the mig wire to become one solid item.

Grinder work will make you a decent grinder not a decent welder - again, get it right from the start, only going where you need a fit. Do a test on two similar parts then cut down the middle, you want that weld to be going most of the way through if not all.

Practice, practice, practice.

What gas are using ????

One other thing - cover up ALL bare skin - MIG will give you a sunburn like no other and very fast, i can get a burn in as little as 6" of welding at 160A and it stings like hell, main target is the left arm and chest if shirt is open collar.

cropwell
06-03-2016, 11:54 AM
I don't know how much you intend to weld after your build, but I found using disposable bottles expensive, especially when the regulator leaks:heart-borken:.
CO2 is not the best shield gas, Argon, Carbon Dioxide with a trace (2%) of Oxygen seems to give better results. I bought a Hobbyweld 15 cylinder with a decent regulator and I don't regret the money spent.

Weld spatter does not hurt - at first - so I echo the cover up. If you smell bacon when you are welding, you have spattered yersel. I don't wear socks and it ain't fun when it goes down the side of your shoe :sour:

Cheers,

Rob

Davek0974
06-03-2016, 01:35 PM
Yes, CO2 will give a bit more spatter but a hotter, deeper weld, Hobbyweld 5 or 15 will be better but standard pub CO2 is sometimes easy to get ;)

Set you flow to about 8-10lpm no more.

Disposables suck very quickly, don't go there if at all possible.

examorph
06-03-2016, 11:40 PM
Thanks for the advice guys, will check this out. Little more progress made today:

Ground down all the welds slightly and fully at any mating faces (does this weaken the welds?):

1786517866

Welds seemed to start getting a little bit neater:

1786417867

I am running on a small tank of CO2 which as per your comments isn't the best as its already ran out :ambivalence: I noticed it a long time after my welds started getting worse and thought it was just me welding horribly (although that would have been part of the reason :shame:)

17869

The empty tank meant I was only able to get both sides done this week:

17868

Will be back on it next weekend and hopefully have the full frame/gantry welded :courage:

Davek0974
07-03-2016, 08:19 AM
No, grinding flush will not affect a good weld, but it needs to be a good weld ;)

Pictures 2 & 3 look much better, a steadier hand will improve it even more.

Ask the local friendly pub landlord, plain Co2 is what you need and they use lots of it, I started out on that and gave him £20 a go, needed to buy the right regulator but it was great for learning on.

JAZZCNC
07-03-2016, 02:58 PM
Nah Co2 is too spattery buy 5% mix and you'll get much cleaner weld.
Also 90% of the time where people go wrong with Mig is the wire speed is too slow and they travel too slow dumping more heat than needed into steel and giving raised welds.

Preparation is key so nice ground fillets on edges and with well setup machine then you'll run perfectly flat welds in no time. No grinding Required.

Davek0974
07-03-2016, 03:34 PM
Yes, spattery a bit more but if you can get it, its far cheaper than any pro mix and great for practising on. A little spatter on a job like this is not really that crucial i feel, I never had that much that it was a pain - its not like chalk and cheese.

+1 on the wire feed, this must be set right first off, as you said, too low will give a weld but damn, things will get hot and can lead to a large heat affected zone and distortion etc which can easily be avoided.

Current is pretty easy, if this is like 4mm box then any hobby welder in the 150-180A range will likely be on full-tilt, but getting the wire feed and motion speed right takes a little practice.

Boyan Silyavski
07-03-2016, 08:18 PM
I started using CO2 only and it seemed cheaper, but its not. Once you swallow the pill and rent big Argon mix bottle you will wonder why you have not done it on first place. Not to speak of that i need not clean additionally the job. And believe me, it took me all day only cleaning spatter, when i welded my machine.

But to make things easier:
-brush parts around with oil prior to welding. As i said i use olive oil. So the spatter will not stick to the oiled part.
-dip the clean Mig gun every 10 min into the oil while welding. That will help keep it clean all day.

examorph
08-03-2016, 10:31 PM
Thanks guys. I am looking into buying in some aluminium plate now and saw that Smith Metals was recommended on here. As they are local, think it might be worth checking with them also. They have a few options for aluminium tooling plate on their website: http://www.smithmetal.com/aluminium-tooling-plate.htm
What option would you guys recommend, would it be the the KASTAL or would any of them do the job?

examorph
11-04-2016, 07:39 PM
Hi guys, been a while as life seems to keep getting in the way!! Some progress so far:

Had the frame and gantry welded up and cut back down over 3 times in attempt of getting it all lined up with minimal distortion, but finally got there in the end! (I hope)
181641816518166

Aluminium also came in, so started work on the Z-Axis. Think I slipped a bit with the blue...:
1816218163

Think its now finally time to start looking into the epoxy leveling on the X axis, only thing is getting it up to temperature (I think Dean mentioned 20C for 3 days at least). Other than waiting for the sun to come out (if ever), I think my only other choice is to stick it in the shed with an electric heater. What do you guys think?

mekanik
11-04-2016, 08:10 PM
If i ever get to that stage i intend to use Raychem Winterguard
http://www.traceheating-cables.co.uk/wintergard.html
I have it installed on my water pipes(Caravan) and it produces a uniform heating of the covered pipe ect, same principle as weld preheating but a lot lower temperature. No idea of the cost but i have some left over from doing the caravan plumbing.
Regards
Mike

Clive S
11-04-2016, 11:57 PM
Think its now finally time to start looking into the epoxy leveling on the X axis, only thing is getting it up to temperature (I think Dean mentioned 20C for 3 days at least). Other than waiting for the sun to come out (if ever), I think my only other choice is to stick it in the shed with an electric heater. What do you guys think?
I think you will be OK at 18C but it will take longer for the cure. In any case leave it to cure for at least 7 Days.

When you pour it make a test strip as well say 150mm x 40mm x5mm then after about 4 days check the test strip to see if it will bend or snap. If it snaps ie. very brittle then it is cured.

In the link is a temperature chart.


http://www.westsystem.com/ss/cold-temperature-bonding/

examorph
12-10-2016, 09:57 PM
Hi all, this ones been on and off the back-burner too many times now but some progress had been made! Thanks again to Dean and Clive for helping me out with many things including the epoxy leveling and rail binding issues :encouragement:

So far, managed to do the leveling using West System Extra Slow cure epoxy:
1942819432

Got the aluminium cut:
1942919430

Z Axis assembled:
19431

and some of the mechanical assembly done:
1942619427

Still got the X Axis ball-screws to sort out, some shimming to do on the Y-Axis screw and paint the frame. Will Hammerite be ok for painting the frame?

In the mean time, I guess its time to start looking into that witchcraft they call 'electrics' :barbershop_quartet_

Clive S
12-10-2016, 10:11 PM
Nice to see it coming together keep up the good work. Let us know what you intend to buy before actually parting with hard earned dosh re the electrics. Don't forget to make adjustments in the motor mounts etc.

JoeHarris
13-10-2016, 08:27 PM
Hi all, this ones been on and off the back-burner too many times now but some progress had been made! Thanks again to Dean and Clive for helping me out with many things including the epoxy leveling and rail binding issues :encouragement:

So far, managed to do the leveling using West System Extra Slow cure epoxy:
1942819432

Got the aluminium cut:
1942919430

Z Axis assembled:
19431

and some of the mechanical assembly done:
1942619427

Still got the X Axis ball-screws to sort out, some shimming to do on the Y-Axis screw and paint the frame. Will Hammerite be ok for painting the frame?

In the mean time, I guess its time to start looking into that witchcraft they call 'electrics' :barbershop_quartet_

Looking good! I used Hammerite on mine - worked well.

examorph
13-10-2016, 09:10 PM
Thanks Joe, did you just do the single coat or did you have to go over it a few times?

Also, thank you for all the info in your build log, it has been a great help for both me and I bet many other members on this forum! I look forward to seeing your electronics come together as I am planning on a very similar setup and your schematics have already answered many of my questions! Did you use AutoCAD for these?

JoeHarris
13-10-2016, 09:41 PM
Thanks Joe, did you just do the single coat or did you have to go over it a few times?

Also, thank you for all the info in your build log, it has been a great help for both me and I bet many other members on this forum! I look forward to seeing your electronics come together as I am planning on a very similar setup and your schematics have already answered many of my questions! Did you use AutoCAD for these?

I think it needed two coats but I didn't bother taking the mill scale off - just went straight over the steel.

Be careful copying my schematic as it is yet to be proofed by the gurus!! I use Archicad...

examorph
05-11-2016, 02:14 PM
After much hair pulling I think I have finally started getting my head around some of this electronics! Please could you guys cast your eyes over the attached schematic for me to ensure I don't see any of this rumored 'magic smoke' come from the electronics, or worse yet...my head?! :barbershop_quartet_

Most of its based on a circuit diagram Dean posted for another user a while back and connections based on various instruction manuals and confirmed against Joe's schematics. Some things I was unsure about were things like daisy chaining some of the wires (eg at the fuses/terminal blocks), if connecting shield wire earths in series on the limits was OK and if the alarm terminals on the drives only applied if using a safety relay?

Also, I know you recommended 6.1Nm NEMA 34 for the X axis but would I be OK going with the 8.7Nm instead as per Joe's build? As this would let me buy all motors from one supplier (CNC4YOU). Thanks.

Schematics (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/examorph1793/media/schematics_zpsguvi5dx9.jpg.html?sort=2&o=0)

examorph
05-11-2016, 02:25 PM
Forgot to mention, would the below enclosure setup be OK? I think I read somewhere that 600 x 900 was the typical recommended size for enclosure so will look for this, does anyone have any recommended suppliers please?
Schematics (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/examorph1793/media/schematics_zpsguvi5dx9.jpg.html?sort=2&o=0)
Also, will this do for the drives: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Leadshine-2-phase-High-precision-stepper-drive-AM882-fit-NEMA-23-34size-motor-work-36/783794956.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.2.S4rRCa&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10 090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=5226f232-576d-405a-b1a2-5560f2d46d31
Or does anyone again have any alternative recommended supplier? Thanks!

Lee Roberts
05-11-2016, 02:50 PM
Forgot to mention, would the below enclosure setup be OK? I think I read somewhere that 600 x 900 was the typical recommended size for enclosure so will look for this, does anyone have any recommended suppliers please?

That was probably from me, 6x9 isn't as common a size and so was more an approximation (and a typo), adequate airflow is important to me and I think should be considered by others, plus working in an enclosure should be a pleasure not a chore.

6x8x3 would meet the needs of most I think: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/enclosures-storage-material-handling/enclosures/

Try and keep all power cables away from communication cables as best you can, use cable trunking to define 'zones' and then group components in each zone :thumsup:

JAZZCNC
05-11-2016, 03:50 PM
Will look at this properly for you later but see one thing I'd change. Use contactor rather than relay contact for turning on transformer. Still use relay for safety but have turn it on contacter which is better suited to high current.

Also what kind of limit switch are you using.? On quick look if Proximity then think you have them wired wrong. If Prox what type NPN or PNP.?

examorph
05-11-2016, 04:11 PM
Will look at this properly for you later but see one thing I'd change. Use contactor rather than relay contact for turning on transformer. Still use relay for safety but have turn it on contacter which is better suited to high current.

Also what kind of limit switch are you using.? On quick look if Proximity then think you have them wired wrong. If Prox what type NPN or PNP.?

Thanks Dean, they are NPN proximity switches, I think you recommended these for another user http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141781789185?clk_rvr_id=1107173860710&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true
Another thing I noticed I had cocked up on was showing them as "limits" on the diagram, they are actually homes and I was planning on using soft limits within Mach3, will get the drawings updated showing this and the contactor. Thanks

EDIT: Is it also worth running the VFD through the same contactor as the transformer or should I keep that one running through the relay?

JAZZCNC
05-11-2016, 09:04 PM
Ok had good look and only see few things would change.

First home or limits makes no difference to how wired and you had it wrong. See pic how to wire Npn correctly.
Now if you have the switch travel with the axis and sense target you can have one switch work has home and limits for that Axis. Just few settings inside mach3.

Regards the VFD then yes it would be better run thru contactor than Relay contact.
However personally I wouldn't Kill power to VFD just sending it stop signal is enough IMO. While strictly it's safer to Kill power it's also pain in the arse waiting for VFD to power up just because you put machine in Reset mode. It's personal thing really but IME it's more trouble than it's worth and spindle being forced into stopping is safe enough at DIY level. The Controller will also drop the Spindle output so stops anyway when E-stop occurs.

Next I would control the Water pump using the VFD on board Relay. This way the pump only comes on when spindle is spinning.

Fuse sizes for drives are too large. 5A is more than enough.

Edit: Noticed on pic forgot to change input numbers but you should get the picture.

examorph
06-11-2016, 04:09 PM
Thanks Dean, drawings almost updated but I am still struggling with figuring out how to wire the water pump direct to the VFD on board Relay :dejection:
Also, after searching many posts I noticed that most people seem to be using a pump ran off of mains voltage instead of 24VDC as shown, so would something like this be more suitable? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-L-H-Water-Pump-Submersible-Aquarium-Fish-Tank-Sump-Pond-Waterfall-Fountain/201569805107?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D39828%26meid%3D8277efe17716490db534aff3ebde 55a8%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D3905 32181450
If so, how would I wire it direct to the VFD so that it has mains supply only when spindles running please? Thanks.

Davek0974
06-11-2016, 04:21 PM
If using a small mains pump, as i do, use a separate relay to control it from the vfd.

The vfd has a relay - you need to set the parameter which turns this on when the vfd is in the 'run' condition.

Next, feed this relay a 24v supply to the 'com' or common contact, then from the 'n/o' or normally open contact you go to the +(if marked) terminal on your pump relay, the - terminal then goes back to your 24v supply.

Now you have a separate relay which turns on with the vfd. The relay will have common and normally open contacts - feed a fused live supply (1A or 2A fuse) into the common, then normally open to your pump, other pump lead back to neutral.

That should be it :)

The reason i would do this is for isolation - i don't like having 240v mains anywhere near the logic side of the vfd terminals.

JAZZCNC
06-11-2016, 10:09 PM
Exactly like dave says but here's pretty pic just in case. Don't forget to change VFD param.

If you do end up using 24Vdc pump you can Dump the Extra Relay just run 0Vdc thru FA FB terminals straight to pump.

examorph
06-11-2016, 11:39 PM
Thanks for all the help guys, this makes things so much more clear! If I understand this right, would using terminals FB & FC have the same result for 250VAC? Sorry if its a daft question as i'm clueless when it comes to electronics!!

Please if you get the chance could you give the updated schematics a final once over? Only additional thing I changed further to the suggestions was earthing the Spindle to the VFD rather than star point as I guess will make wiring easier.

I noticed that AliExpress have a sale going on Friday, so would I be OK going ahead and buying the below whilst the deals are on?
3x - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Leadshine-2-phase-High-precision-stepper-drive-AM882-fit-NEMA-23-34size-motor-work-36/783794956.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.2.S4rRCa&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10 090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=5226f232-576d-405a-b1a2-5560f2d46d31
1x - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Water-Cooled-Spindle-Set-2-2KW-Spindle-Motor-Matching-2-2KW-Inverter-80mm-clamp-water-pump/2041841053.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.rTtF3X&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10 090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=1c473bf7-f599-43bc-808a-7162575c4107

I already have a 80mm spindle clamp but sale price seems to beat all eBay offers I can find for just the spindle/VFD alone :greedy_dollars:

Schematics (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/examorph1793/media/schematics_zpsguvi5dx9.jpg.html?sort=2&o=0)

JAZZCNC
06-11-2016, 11:59 PM
Thanks for all the help guys, this makes things so much more clear! If I understand this right, would using terminals KA & KB on the VFD have the same result? And if I used FB & FC, the same could be done for 250VAC? Sorry if its a daft question as i'm clueless when it comes to electronics!!

While the manual mentions KA & KB I think you'll find there isn't any terminals with those markings. Well not on any I've fitted anyways.

The manual is confusing and I think wrong. On most I've fitted FB is Common and FA =NO with FC=NC manual shows it other way round I think.
The 3A/240Vac 3A/30Vdc are the ratings of both contacts and not for one set like what manual leads you to think.

Just wire it like shown and it will work.

Clive S
07-11-2016, 12:00 AM
I noticed that AliExpress have a sale going on Friday, so would I be OK going ahead and buying the below whilst the deals are on?
3x - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-...2-5560f2d46d31 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Leadshine-2-phase-High-precision-stepper-drive-AM882-fit-NEMA-23-34size-motor-work-36/783794956.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.2.S4rRCa&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10 090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=5226f232-576d-405a-b1a2-5560f2d46d31)
1x - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wate...a-7162575c4107 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Water-Cooled-Spindle-Set-2-2KW-Spindle-Motor-Matching-2-2KW-Inverter-80mm-clamp-water-pump/2041841053.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.rTtF3X&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10 090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=1c473bf7-f599-43bc-808a-7162575c4107)

They seem fine to me make sure the VFD is the one in the picture as sometimes they send a different one out.

JAZZCNC
07-11-2016, 12:28 AM
Please if you get the chance could you give the updated schematics a final once over? Only additional thing I changed further to the suggestions was earthing the Spindle to the VFD rather than star point as I guess will make wiring easier.

Ok few small details.

The Green wire you have coming off Stepper B (-) I'm hoping is representing Shield going to earth and your not actually taking B(-) to earth.? If correct still only earth at the Controller end not the Stepper end.

Don't need 24V to outputs 0-3 because your not using any. Your only using the onboard Relay which is output 4 and doesn't need 24V.

Fans can get away with sharing fuse. I use 2 x 12v wired in series because are cheaper and easier to find.

With the 24V for Controller I/O save your self some wire and jumper between the Pins. Don't need to run separate wire to each pin. (See pic)

Don't forget to send Earth to Machine Frame.

19571

Lee Roberts
07-11-2016, 10:35 AM
Thanks for all the help guys, this makes things so much more clear! If I understand this right, would using terminals FB & FC have the same result for 250VAC? Sorry if its a daft question as i'm clueless when it comes to electronics!!

Please if you get the chance could you give the updated schematics a final once over? Only additional thing I changed further to the suggestions was earthing the Spindle to the VFD rather than star point as I guess will make wiring easier.

I noticed that AliExpress have a sale going on Friday, so would I be OK going ahead and buying the below whilst the deals are on?
3x - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Leadshine-2-phase-High-precision-stepper-drive-AM882-fit-NEMA-23-34size-motor-work-36/783794956.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.2.S4rRCa&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10 090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=5226f232-576d-405a-b1a2-5560f2d46d31
1x - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Water-Cooled-Spindle-Set-2-2KW-Spindle-Motor-Matching-2-2KW-Inverter-80mm-clamp-water-pump/2041841053.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.rTtF3X&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10 090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=1c473bf7-f599-43bc-808a-7162575c4107

I already have a 80mm spindle clamp but sale price seems to beat all eBay offers I can find for just the spindle/VFD alone :greedy_dollars:

19570
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/170746857178

£180

Clive S
07-11-2016, 10:46 AM
Lee that looks to me to be the cheaper VFD

valdis034
07-11-2016, 11:07 AM
Yes it will the the same like i got, how Dean said not original huanyang..

Išsiųsta naudojantis SM-G900F Tapatalk 4 Lt

Lee Roberts
07-11-2016, 11:11 AM
But still usable nonetheless :thumsup:

JoeHarris
07-11-2016, 11:15 AM
Everyone loves a cheap copy of a cheap Chinese drive! What a mine field! What do you guys think of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131841763367


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JoeHarris
07-11-2016, 11:16 AM
2.2kw is £222


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lee Roberts
07-11-2016, 01:41 PM
Everyone loves a cheap copy of a cheap Chinese drive! What a mine field! What do you guys think of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131841763367


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They look pretty smart Joe are you getting one?

JoeHarris
07-11-2016, 02:23 PM
Just looking at the options. It would be good if someone else had had one and could offer any thoughts...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Davek0974
07-11-2016, 03:08 PM
Invertek optidrives are excellent, I have fitted several in the past, easy to configure, built in Wales i recall, I get mine from Inverterdrive.com, really good tech help too there.

Lee Roberts
07-11-2016, 07:20 PM
Invertek optidrives are excellent, I have fitted several in the past, easy to configure, built in Wales i recall, I get mine from Inverterdrive.com, really good tech help too there.
What do you reckon Joe, £170 Inc vat?

https://inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inverter-Drives-230V/Invertek-Optidrive-E3-2-2kW-1ph-3ph-IP20/

Thanks for the share Dave, the USB lead looks a bit pricey if you ask me, should get that with the drive no?

Davek0974
07-11-2016, 07:52 PM
I didn't get any leads, never needed one either?

;)

examorph
07-11-2016, 09:05 PM
Thanks guys, wouldn't have even known where to start if it wasn't for all the help on this forum!!
Please find attached updated schematics, fingers crossed 3rd time lucky? :encouragement:
Schematics (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/examorph1793/media/schematics_zpsguvi5dx9.jpg.html?sort=2&o=0)

JAZZCNC
07-11-2016, 10:52 PM
Lee that looks to me to be the cheaper VFD

Yes thats the Huanyang Copy and best avoided.!

JAZZCNC
07-11-2016, 10:57 PM
Thanks guys, wouldn't have even known where to start if it wasn't for all the help on this forum!!
Please find attached updated schematics, fingers crossed 3rd time lucky? :encouragement:

Looks good to go. . :thumsup:

Lee Roberts
07-11-2016, 10:57 PM
Yes thats the Huanyang Copy and best avoided.!

Why?

JAZZCNC
07-11-2016, 11:04 PM
Why?

Mainly because No Isolation on Analog. But other smaller niggles are No RPM readout only Khz. Only 12Vdc output not 24Vdc for controlling external devices And I'm not sure but think it doesnt have onboard relay but been while since fitted one so may be wrong.

Then in general didn't like the build quality and the Manual was Crap.!

Huanyang Vfd's have got much better in recent years and now come with half decent paper manual. However they still have longway to catch up with likes of Invertek or IMO etc.

JoeHarris
07-11-2016, 11:28 PM
What do you reckon Joe, £170 Inc vat?

https://inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inverter-Drives-230V/Invertek-Optidrive-E3-2-2kW-1ph-3ph-IP20/

Thanks for the share Dave, the USB lead looks a bit pricey if you ask me, should get that with the drive no?

Looks a good option to me!


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Lee Roberts
08-11-2016, 12:16 AM
Mainly because No Isolation on Analog. But other smaller niggles are No RPM readout only Khz. Only 12Vdc output not 24Vdc for controlling external devices And I'm not sure but think it doesnt have onboard relay but been while since fitted one so may be wrong.

Then in general didn't like the build quality and the Manual was Crap.!

Huanyang Vfd's have got much better in recent years and now come with half decent paper manual. However they still have longway to catch up with likes of Invertek or IMO etc.

KK, I'll email them now quickly and ask if its a gen Huan or not, though I quite like the look of the Invertek from Joe now I've seen them, I dont think the spindle's on their own cost that much now days do they, could be a nice investment if I was to pair them up using the 4 bearing version?


Looks a good option to me!

You'll have to go first then Joe, as i'm not that far in to my build yet :tears_of_joy:

JoeHarris
08-11-2016, 01:19 AM
KK, I'll email them now quickly and ask if its a gen Huan or not, though I quite like the look of the Invertek from Joe now I've seen them, I dont think the spindle's on their own cost that much now days do they, could be a nice investment if I was to pair them up using the 4 bearing version?



You'll have to go first then Joe, as i'm not that far in to my build yet :tears_of_joy:

You've seen my build log right?! A snail looks like an F1 car compared to my build. I want it finished!!


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JoeHarris
08-11-2016, 04:21 PM
Thanks guys, wouldn't have even known where to start if it wasn't for all the help on this forum!!
Please find attached updated schematics, fingers crossed 3rd time lucky? :encouragement:
19573

Looking good! I'm glad my schematic helped initially - I won't feel so bad now when I shamelessly rip off most of yours! You have definitely taken this to the next level! What are you using for connectors for your cy cable? I have struggled to find ones that allow connection to the shield...


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examorph
08-11-2016, 11:31 PM
Looking good! I'm glad my schematic helped initially - I won't feel so bad now when I shamelessly rip off most of yours! You have definitely taken this to the next level! What are you using for connectors for your cy cable? I have struggled to find ones that allow connection to the shield...

Haha thanks Joe, I would have been clueless without your schematics and I cant say the same for when I shamelessly ripped off most of Deans setup!! :hopelessness: I haven't even started looking at the cables/wires yet so got all these problems still to come!

On the topic of wiring, I found this when searching around which might come in handy for others as it sure will for me! http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6322-Wiring-diagram-for-4x4-cnc-router

JoeHarris
08-11-2016, 11:40 PM
Haha thanks Joe, I would have been clueless without your schematics and I cant say the same for when I shamelessly ripped off most of Deans setup!! :hopelessness: I haven't even started looking at the cables/wires yet so got all these problems still to come!

On the topic of wiring, I found this when searching around which might come in handy for others as it sure will for me! http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6322-Wiring-diagram-for-4x4-cnc-router

I'm sure many would agree that dean is an absolute legend. Thanks for the link v helpful.

By the way - these are cheap...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272210740797

njhussey
10-11-2016, 06:03 PM
I'm sure many would agree that dean is an absolute legend. Thanks for the link v helpful.

By the way - these are cheap...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272210740797

These are in the UK and not too bad on price Chalon's RT18 DIN fuse holders (http://chaloncomponents.co.uk/index.php/product/rt181p/) I've found that Chalon are good value and you get good service from them, or at least I've had good service...

valdis034
10-11-2016, 06:16 PM
Why in most cases you are trying to use fuses? Because they are cheaper than circuit brakers? Is that the main reason?

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njhussey
10-11-2016, 06:39 PM
Why in most cases you are trying to use fuses? Because they are cheaper than circuit brakers? Is that the main reason?

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I think most use circuit breakers on AC and fuses on DC...

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valdis034
10-11-2016, 06:40 PM
But breakers still can be used for dc aswell, so still dont realy get it..

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Lee Roberts
10-11-2016, 11:16 PM
These are in the UK and not too bad on price Chalon's RT18 DIN fuse holders (http://chaloncomponents.co.uk/index.php/product/rt181p/) I've found that Chalon are good value and you get good service from them, or at least I've had good service...

Yea I can second that, Chalon are just down the road to me in Haydock and as Neil says great service all round, I selected these RT18's for an up coming CAB build too and they look to be just the job, they also have an Chalon-Components-Ltd eBay Shop (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Chalon-Components-Ltd), as you would expect though things cost more there, like the fuse's for these holders :).