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andy_con
23-02-2016, 01:37 PM
looking at replacing the 25 year old steppers in my cnc with hybrid servo/steppers.I know leadshine are generally popular, ive seen these ones on ebay. any model better than others, anything to watch out for?all thoughts welcomethere used to be lots for sale on ebay, but mainly seems to be leadshine drivers at the moment, not many servoshttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Leadshine-Closed-Loop-Hybrid-Servo-Drive-Kit-HBS57-Driver-Motor-encoder-/251942156746?hash=item3aa8ec39ca:g:EiAAAOxydlFSutQ h

JAZZCNC
23-02-2016, 03:45 PM
Can I ask Why you want to change.?

I've used this setup and while they work very well the only reason I'd use them over standard stepper is because the motors are 3 phase motors which give much smoother operation and stronger thru out the rpm curve compared to 2 phase steppers. The actual Closed loop isn't that important or needed if normal steppers are sized and tuned correctly.

Normal 2 phase steppers matched to decent digital drives like leadshine DM, EM or AM drives give great performance and reliabilty for the money. You'll get DM556 and 2 or 3nm Motor for around half the cost of the C-loop and if run with around 44v they'll work great. If the gap was closer on price I'd say go C-loop for 3 phase motors but unfortunatly it's not.

Also if looking at the Larger C-loop motors then I'd look towards servos because most are just normal 2 phase steppers which offer no advantage other than the C-loop over normal steppers.

andy_con
23-02-2016, 09:23 PM
I have a denford triac with original stepper setup, so standard nema34 steppers, controlled via digiplan drivers, connected to a pmdx26 via a home made 5v to 24v board.

so I don't have micro stepping, which I would like. my current max speed is 1200mm/m which is pretty slow.

so I want to increase steps and speed up

two of the stepper motors are 25 years old

JAZZCNC
23-02-2016, 10:50 PM
I have a denford triac with original stepper setup, so standard nema34 steppers, controlled via digiplan drivers, connected to a pmdx26 via a home made 5v to 24v board.

so I don't have micro stepping, which I would like. my current max speed is 1200mm/m which is pretty slow.

so I want to increase steps and speed up

two of the stepper motors are 25 years old

Well in that case I'd give C-loop a miss because pretty sure all the 34 motors are 2 phase motors. Those you linked to are Nema 23 and only 2nm.

If you buy Am882 drives for around 50-60 each and fit motors below and run them around 70Vdc you'll transform the machine. In fact just the drives alone and some more voltage will make big difference.

https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor/Nema34/Stepper-Motor-4.6Nm-86HS78-4808-02-Nema34

andy_con
23-02-2016, 11:19 PM
thanks for the link

have you ever used the leadshine hybrid servo to compare agains standard steppers?

JAZZCNC
23-02-2016, 11:38 PM
thanks for the link

have you ever used the leadshine hybrid servo to compare agains standard steppers?

Yes and like I say the 3 phase motors are noticebly smoother and hold torque higher up the speed curve. But the larger 2 phase motors work just like normal steppers to me but with closed loop feedback to drive. Good digital drives and normal 2 phase steppers give the same performance to me.

andy_con
23-02-2016, 11:53 PM
So why are the leadshine so expensive? Are they well made and good quality? Very reliable?

On a nema34 frame size, if money was no object what's the best setup you could buy?

I like to aim high in life and then work down from there ;-)

JAZZCNC
24-02-2016, 12:30 AM
So why are the leadshine so expensive? Are they well made and good quality? Very reliable?

If your meaning Leadshine closed loop then your paying for the encoder and novelty of closed loop. The AM882 are Leadshine drives and they are not expensive. Quality wise they are very well made and reliable. The software technology is well proven and tested. Most of the cheap chinese drives you see are rippoff's of leadshine technology.


On a nema34 frame size, if money was no object what's the best setup you could buy?

I like to aim high in life and then work down from there ;-)

Me I'd buy AC Servo's if money wasn't concern. Or maybe these, not tried any yet but heard good things about them.

http://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/

Boyan Silyavski
24-02-2016, 06:58 AM
Or maybe these, not tried any yet but heard good things about them.

http://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/

Do you know how to see the Clear Path SD stepper killer models with prices? I registered there but it constantly loops me from publicity to publicity. Some geek made that web

PS: I found it. It was : "Help me choose a motor.." then down bellow small button "skip and show all models"


I looked around, while they may seem right for Americans, i doubt their value for us. The "stepper killer" seems not a true servo but a closed loop stepper motor, judging from torque at speeds, prices from >300$, then the true servos are from >600$ . For that money one could buy a brand new Brand servo motor +controller.



For ~700$ i could tell you where to buy 4 servos/200w or 400w/ and motors together, though i did not have time to buy and test them. China of course. Seems though people use them re branded and pay greater prices for them.

JAZZCNC
24-02-2016, 08:49 AM
I looked around, while they may seem right for Americans, i doubt their value for us. The "stepper killer" seems not a true servo but a closed loop stepper motor, judging from torque at speeds, prices from >300$,

No they are proper DC servo motor and light years better than stepper system. Plus the question was if money wasn't a concern.
You can't possibly compare them to cheap chinese servos because the quality of these would be like comparing to high end Yaskawa or Mitsubishi. It Would be like comparing Apples with oranges.!!


For ~700$ i could tell you where to buy 4 servos/200w or 400w/ and motors together.

But coming back into our world in budget terms then please do because at 175 for set of 400w motor/drive and I presume cables then thats good price.

Edit:

Forgot to say you can't buy Clearpath direct from Technik they route you thru distributor which did contact me but I didn't persue it any further.

Boyan Silyavski
24-02-2016, 12:14 PM
No they are proper DC servo motor and light years better than stepper system. Plus the question was if money wasn't a concern.
You can't possibly compare them to cheap chinese servos because the quality of these would be like comparing to high end Yaskawa or Mitsubishi. It Would be like comparing Apples with oranges.!!

Still not sure about that. Just look at torque curve and encoder count so you would see thats the case. Bellow compared the strongest nema 23 from both series. All same as Lead shine, which also make integrated motors

I was speaking about their so called "Stepper Killer" :

17706


it seems the true servo is their so called " High Power"

17707








But coming back into our world in budget terms then please do because at 175 for set of 400w motor/drive and I presume cables then thats good price.



Shenzhen Just Motion Control Electromechanics Co.,Ltd. , Just PM you the details

As it was a private email and a couple of months ago, if sb needs i will send him the details, or why dont just contact them for your need directly, but their closed loop stepper is cheaper than Leadshine, so is the servo drive.

Its worth noting that it took me 10 emails so they understand and agree with me that the closed loop 3nm motor need to be coupled with the bigger than suggested driver, so it could be driven at 70V. So make sure thats the case when you order. You will want 3nm nema 23/ they call it nema24/ coupled with the bigger driver.

JAZZCNC
24-02-2016, 12:33 PM
Still not sure about that. Just look at torque curve and encoder count so you would see thats the case. Bellow compared the strongest nema 23 from both series. All same as Lead shine, which also make integrated motors

Def are not Steppers. They are DC servo motors just of lower rating to the higher power version.
check this out which is I believe the exact motor you have been looking at. Listen then tell me if thats a Stepper.. or not.!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kAcz-rG5s

andy_con
24-02-2016, 01:52 PM
so leadshine are dc stepper motors with an encoder - with matching leadshine driver

clearpath are proper servo motors - with matching clearpath driver

the clearpath do look really good.

as with all of us I would love the best quality, has or datron quality. which comes at a price

although some very helpful info has been posted im no closer to knowing what I want LOL

Boyan Silyavski
24-02-2016, 01:57 PM
Def are not Steppers. They are DC servo motors just of lower rating to the higher power version.
check this out which is I believe the exact motor you have been looking at. Listen then tell me if thats a Stepper.. or not.!!



You are absolutely right. I was wrong. This could not be stepper motor. They move absolutely nicely for sure. Its like music to my ears

andy_con
24-02-2016, 02:04 PM
does anyone have a price for the clearpath motors and drivers?

Boyan Silyavski
24-02-2016, 02:12 PM
its on their web, just register, prices are there

andy_con
24-02-2016, 02:28 PM
id be interested to hear from someone with a leadshine setup to get their on them

andy_con
24-02-2016, 02:49 PM
just trying to understand the clearpath stuff, so you don't need a separate driver?

you plug power and control signal directly into the motor?

https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-SDSK-3411P-RLN/

Boyan Silyavski
24-02-2016, 03:47 PM
just trying to understand the clearpath stuff, so you don't need a separate driver?

you plug power and control signal directly into the motor?

https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-SDSK-3411P-RLN/

You plug 2 cables, one for motion control signals, other for power. Thats it. The driver is integrated in the motor. Plus eventually USb cable so you could program the drive.

Its there on the picture at the link. You dont need separate servo drive. All you need is breakout board/motion control/ capable to output the signal to them. Look at the pdf and see what signal it accepts. Then you will know what board you need. Look manual at page 84 for step dir info

komatias
24-02-2016, 07:10 PM
I have Nema 34 leadshines close loop steppers on my machine. Thought they would give me the benefit of positional feadback and torque but realistically I could have gone with normal steppers. If I were to do it again, I would go with servos with brakes. I am considering doing that change some time in the future but the machine works so leaving well enough alone for the time being.

andy_con
24-02-2016, 09:44 PM
im really liking the sound of these clearpath servos, they seem like a good investment

Agathon
13-09-2016, 03:45 PM
I have Nema 34 leadshines close loop steppers on my machine. Thought they would give me the benefit of positional feadback and torque but realistically I could have gone with normal steppers. If I were to do it again, I would go with servos with brakes. I am considering doing that change some time in the future but the machine works so leaving well enough alone for the time being.


If you do decide to switch to steppers let me know, I'll buy the Leadshine drives.