Denford Microrouter V4

[andy_con]

just received the above machine today, does anyone know much about them?

it has a porters cable 23k spindle where is the best place to buy additional collets?

also is that a vacuum pump under the machine? what sort of vacuum table would I need to do work stuff on?


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_1962_zpsmlp8ltpk.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_1951_zpsdchnbftk.jpg

[andy_con]

well that's me £450 lighter...

Ethernet smoothstepper

http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/SmoothStepper-Ethernet-794.html

3x drivers

https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor-Driver-4.5A,-50V-CNC-Microstepping-CW5045


Breakout board

http://diycnc.co.uk/cnc-boards-uniport-v3/

48v psu

https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Breakout-Board-and-PSU's/600W-PSU-48Volt-12Amp

[Lee Roberts]

Well done, bring on the retrofit !

.Me

[andy_con]

ok im struggling its not going as well as id like

ive got a tiny amount of movement on the Y but cant get others moving

ive done in

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/1_zpsbf5bcv2g.jpg

but unsure if I need to do this

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/2_zps8dxpm1yy.jpg

[andy_con]

anyone got any thoughts on how to connect up this BoB -

https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Breakout-Board-and-PSU's/Breakout%20board%20KK01%20CNC%20Stepper%20Motor%20 5%20Axis-with-Relay

to a spindle v4 board

http://www.diycnc.co.uk/forms/spindleV4.pdf

[andy_con]

lots of help, offered.

thanks

[lucan07]

At first look it appears incompatible to me as your bob is lacking outputs pin 14 on port is usually linefeed or control 1 as used on board shown in spindle board diagram this is not available on your BOB I would contact DIYCNC on the email on instructions tho they may just say buy another bob or possible take feed directly from parallel port.

Knowing nothing about these particular boards I could not advise on non standard wiring.

Just noticed your using a smoothstepper so may be able to pick up 14 16 17 and Gnd from that again not familiar but from memory what I have read may be possible.

A quick google sugests this is possible but be aware that they use the old wiring on the board according to what I read 1-13 on one side and 14-26 on other standard now is odd one side even the other.

[m_c]

Looking at the datasheets, the BOB and V4 are not compatible.

Without swapping either component or buying a new BOB, I'd say wire the V4 straight to the second port on the SS.
You could buy a second BOB which uses common ground for the step/dir pins, but if you're only going to be using the second port for spindle control, I'd just wire it directly.

[andy_con]

with the help of a friend the v4 board is now connected and motor is spinning

but im having a new dro issues in mach.

motors are 200 steps / revDirect drive, no gearing.Lea
dscrew is 3mm pitch (1 rotation moves 3mm) waiting to get exact pitch from denford forum
Microstepping is 1/10 (stepper drivers are set to 10)
so:No. of steps per mm is = 200 * 10 * (1/3) = 667

but when I put 667 into steps per in mach the actual machine moves 550mm but I only get a reading of about 26 on the dro

[m_c]

Your maths seems good.
What do you mean you only get a reading of 26?
What are you actually commanding?
And do you really mean 550mm?

[andy_con]

Your maths seems good.
What do you mean you only get a reading of 26?
What are you actually commanding?
And do you really mean 550mm?

if I use the arrow keys on the keyboard to jog the x axis for example. I travel the whole length of the machine which is 550mm as stated in the denford manual but the dro readout in mach only say 128

so something isn't right

[m_c]

So it's out by a factor of 4.something.

Are you sure the microstepping is 10?
Easy way to check, is if you mark a motor pulley/screw, then request a move of 3mm, it should rotate one full turn. If it doesn't, then you need to work out why.

[lucan07]

run the auto configuration on the X,Y & Z axis on the settings tab bottom left above reset

[andy_con]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_2146_zpsknwg7k2e.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_2141_zps6gcuuq33.jpg

[andy_con]

run the auto configuration on the X,Y & Z axis on the settings tab bottom left above reset

im using machstdmill ive no idea how to get it back to normal mach screen set

[m_c]

I seem to have a recollection of certain drives having the switches the wrong way around, but if that was the case, you'd be out by a far larger factor.
Run the test like I said, and you'll know for sure if it's the microstep setting causing the numbers to be wrong or not.

I think you should be able to swap back to the standard screen by simply selecting the standard screen, however I've never used MSM. Regardless, I prefer to calculate the steps manually, as that way I know if something isn't set how it should be, or I've got a number wrong somewhere.

[lucan07]

If you run machloader create a copy of your setup its a good idea to have a standard screen setup to troubleshoot, and you could run autotune.

Are you sure not mixing Motor tuning and mach default mm's and inches 26x25.4 = 660 would only be 20% out closer than 400%.

[andy_con]

just managed to find and use the autotune which is a great feature.

but still not right, a full x movement of the table now reads 282, so better but not right.

some thing is very odd here


If you run machloader create a copy of your setup its a good idea to have a standard screen setup to troubleshoot, and you could run autotune.

Are you sure not mixing Motor tuning and mach default mm's and inches 26x25.4 = 660 would only be 20% out closer than 400%.

[lucan07]

You are using a smoothstepper so that I suspect generates pulses rather than PC, I would look closely at the smoothstepper settings if there is a multiplier or something there, some do for servo's to get up to speed. Some good videos on warp9 for setup I saw when considering the smoothstep

[andy_con]

ok set the drivers to 32 steps and half current

used the auto tune feature and doing a full x travel I get 550mm, soft limt isn't working for some reason so I need to look into that

[lucan07]

I got a soft limit bug in latest version went back to previous one ending .20 after hearing a fair few bugs in latest version.

[andy_con]

restarted mach and they are now working.

the machine is working, still need a smooth a few things out but its working

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_2148_zpsdknzhfc0.jpg

[lucan07]

Its coming together that first cuts always the best

[andy_con]

another issue I have is when left on standby the stepper motors get very hot, to hot to touch. I took them down from 3.2amps to 2.8amps, they still get way to hot it just takes longer for them to heat up now

[lucan07]

Many drivers have sw4 on for half voltage I believe this is for standby mode only to solve that problem, but if they are touchable they are probably not to hot they are designed to run hot.

[andy_con]

If I leave my triac on over night the motors are stone cold the next day.

If I machine for an hour and half the motors are still stone cold, so just seems odd on the microrouter

[lucan07]

Likely the way the standby is accomplished, e.g. a PC can be sleeping completely monitoring a 3.3v micro current or running lots uf stuff in background and just turning screen & disks off.

[m_c]

Likely the way the standby is accomplished, e.g. a PC can be sleeping completely monitoring a 3.3v micro current or running lots uf stuff in background and just turning screen & disks off.

Lucan, that post just shows you've got little clue what you're talking about.

Denford are generally very conservative with their tuning. I've ran my little Novamill pretty much non-stop for 4 hours, and the motors only get warm. I suspect the conservative tuning, combined with being mounted to a relatively large lump of iron, means that they're not generating as much heat to begin with, and what heat is produced, is dissipated into a far larger lump of metal than a router.

I'm not aware of Denford using drivers that had reduced standby current, so I doubt that's why they remain as cool.

Why your router is running as hot, could be down to a few factors. Are you running a higher voltage supply? Are you running at a higher current setting than the original drivers?
Without going into specifics, a higher voltage essentially means the driver can force more current into the stepper motor when running at higher speeds (this is where your motor inductance figure comes into play), so the motor is producing more power and more heat.
A higher current setting will cause the motors to produce more power, and heat, while stationary and at speeds up to where the motor induction and driver power supply become the limiting factor as to how much current the driver can force through the motor.

So if you've increase either of those, then that's likely why things are running as hot.
From memory, I think it's acceptable to run steppers up to 80deg C, provided they're not getting that hot quickly i.e. it's fine as long as they take a couple of hours to get that hot. The big thing is that the iron core doesn't overheat to the point it demagnetises, as at that point the motor is only good for the scrap heap.

[lucan07]

I do know very little about Denford machines but I believe they use the Eurostep controller on the Triac, recovering from standby the Eurostep can sometimes need to be reset from the command prompt to enable the amplifier to start thus enabling power to drive to the motors which had been cut presumably by the standby/sleep state.

On the denford system thats getting warm control has been replaced by mach3 a smoothstepper 5 axis bob etc, its hardly a denford controlled or tuned system now, which is why I pointed out a possible difference.

[m_c]

It must of taken a while for you to search for that answer, but it still would not explain why the motors don't warm noticeably after being run for a while.

FWIW Denford used a few different versions of Baldor CNC controllers, but something like a Triac would of most likely used Parker stepper drivers, which from what I remember don't have any kind of current reduction. They're either enabled, or disabled, but commercial machines will rarely disable drives, as you run the risk of losing position during disable/enable.

[lucan07]

My information comes from IT support,for a while I ran a local authority IT dept including education dept and a few Denford's it was one of the recurring jobs talking numpties through the reset, which is why its remembered.

[andy_con]

for info

Triac

running ESS, PMDX126 and original digi plan drivers, it use nema 43 steppers
there is a home brew board between PMDX and digi plan driver which came with the machine


microrouter

running ESS, BOB and drivers as linked to at the start of this thread.

steppers in the microrouter

stepper drivers are running on 36v and set to 2.8amps

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_2142_zpsjmwo6w0v.jpg

[m_c]

Andy, any idea what current the original drivers were set at?
Regardless, it looks like you're running the motors within their ratings, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. You could probably drop the current a little bit more if you're concerned, but it really depends on how conservatively or hard you want to run things.

One thing that I keep wondering about, is why the microstepping setting never worked how it should. If it was because the DIP switch was faulty, then the current setting could also be an issue.
It's probably not a fault, but was the step per setting a problem for all axis?
And are all the steppers getting equally warm?


Lucan, even at that, you keep posting what sound like definitive solutions without getting all the facts, which could quite easily cause more problems than they solve.

[lucan07]

How can it sound like a definitive solution when we were talking about a Triac that has no problem?

[m_c]

I'm bored tonight, so here we go from this thread alone

Many drivers have sw4 on for half voltage I believe this is for standby mode only to solve that problem, but if they are touchable they are probably not to hot they are designed to run hot.
If you had at least some clue, you'd know it's reduced current mode, not voltage mode. Getting a basic thing like that wrong could cause major issues for inexperienced people, or at the very least confuse their understanding of the settings.


Likely the way the standby is accomplished, e.g. a PC can be sleeping completely monitoring a 3.3v micro current or running lots uf stuff in background and just turning screen & disks off.
PC standby should have no effect on stepper motor current, unless the PC is shutting down enough to also shutdown the motion controller and disable the stepper drivers. Also, at this point, Andy had not even mentioned what system his Triac is running.
But given we now know it's Mach, if the computer shut down enough to drop communication with the ESS, I would expect Mach to display an error, or even crash when the computer exits standby.
However, I've never ran an ESS, and all my machine computers are set to never enter standby, and to only shutdown when requested to.


I do know very little about Denford machines but I believe they use the Eurostep controller on the Triac, recovering from standby the Eurostep can sometimes need to be reset from the command prompt to enable the amplifier to start thus enabling power to drive to the motors which had been cut presumably by the standby/sleep state.

On the Denford system thats getting warm control has been replaced by mach3 a smoothstepper 5 axis bob etc, its hardly a denford controlled or tuned system now, which is why I pointed out a possible difference.
So despite not knowing the Triac in question was running Mach/ESS, you posted up about a relatively obscure problem, that probably only affected certain controllers, despite the fact Denford fitted multiple different controllers.


Andy, sorry to do this in your thread, it's just that I hate seeing people post information that is wrong, irrelevant, and/or makes assumptions without knowing the facts or at least mentioning certain things have been assumed.
As I got drummed in to me during my apprenticeship, never assume anything, as it makes an Ass out of U and Me.

[lucan07]

I'm bored tonight, so here we go from this thread alone
If you had at least some clue, you'd know it's reduced current mode, not voltage mode. Getting a basic thing like that wrong could cause major issues for inexperienced people, or at the very least confuse their understanding of the settings.

Current/voltage reduced when not in use, how can this cause a problem?

[/QUOTE]
PC standby should have no effect on stepper motor current, unless the PC is shutting down enough to also shutdown the motion controller and disable the stepper drivers. Also, at this point, Andy had not even mentioned what system his Triac is running.
But given we now know it's Mach, if the computer shut down enough to drop communication with the ESS, I would expect Mach to display an error, or even crash when the computer exits standby.
However, I've never ran an ESS, and all my machine computers are set to never enter standby, and to only shutdown when requested to.
[/QUOTE]

I said triac probablty goes to standby like a pc and quoted pc modes as an example, no problem with this machine so whats your point.

[/QUOTE]
So despite not knowing the Triac in question was running Mach/ESS, you posted up about a relatively obscure problem, that probably only affected certain controllers, despite the fact Denford fitted multiple different controllers.
[/QUOTE]

I new triacs had that facility and problem so mentioned it, it was not regarding the faulty machine rather the one that was working!
Pick your dummy up and go troll somewhere else!

[m_c]

I new triacs had that facility and problem so mentioned it, it was not regarding the faulty machine rather the one that was working!
Pick your dummy up and go troll somewhere else!

What faulty machine?
You were the one who mentioned an issue which involved you assuming something, but not actually mentioning enough details about when that issue would apply.

BTW, my dummy is fine, and I'm not trolling. I'm just highlighting the misguided information in a few of your posts. If I was really trolling, I wouldn't bother explaining why your posts were misguided, I'd just post ill informed responses to see how much other BS you can come up with.

[lucan07]

No idea what the last post says, as you're not worth talking too certainly not listening too PS theres a goat crossing the bridge!

[andy_con]

just properly ran some code on the machine, I had ot stop after 20 mins as the motors burnt my hand to touch.

all 3 seems to be getting the same temp.

how do I go about trying to resolve this?

[lucan07]

If you are still running at 36v 2.8a I would try dropping it to 1.5a to see if they still heat up if they can't handle 1.5a maybe try some different drivers. Was the machine running when you purchased it or did you never see it running?

[m_c]

I just googled the stepper motor model number, and it threw up a few different datasheets/catalogues.

The catalogue for MAE stepper motors is http://www.probyte.fi/pdf/HY200-3424-0170.pdf
Which confirms the 3A/75V ratings.
However another datasheet put that exact same model at only 2.1A per phase.

I can't find any definitive figures for maximum temperature, but up to 80degC seems to be a common recommendation. If you are running the motors below their ratings, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
If you're not happy with them running that hot, try what Lucan suggests, and drop the current setting further.

[andy_con]

Will drop the current one step

First bit if work completed


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_2163_zpstgwvafn4.jpg


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_2164_zpshjhxprlm.jpg


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_2165_zpsi1yvenbz.jpg

[andy_con]

Ready for painting

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x202/magicmushrooms1/cnc/DSC_2169_zpseinynyly.jpg

[Lee Roberts]

Looking good Andy!

.Me

[dodgygeeza]

if the motor is 8 wire, then 3A is the unipolar current and 2.1 is in series and it will be 4.2 in parallel. this is typical for 8 wire motors.

[JAZZCNC]

No idea what the last post says, as you're not worth talking too certainly not listening too PS theres a goat crossing the bridge!

Ah ah this Makes a change from me being the one clashing heads but rest assured if I hadn't been busy I'd have blasted you just the same.!! . . .Your very out of order Calling MC a Troll. He's one of the nicest and most helpful people on the forum who's replys are considered and well thought out with healthy dose of common sense applied.
He's absolutley Correct in what he was saying, Know this because I'm often the one cleaning up when people with little to no experience dish out advice with such authority that unsuspecting people often desparate to resolve problems fall hook line sinker and take it on board. Only to find out that person was full of shit.!!
Like MC this is also one of my pet hates and like him I'll always jump on people who do this because it's not helping anyone but the Ego of the tosser who's spouting bull shit.!

Have bit more respect for nice guy and don't be so quick to dishout advise if don't know what your on about.!

Andy Con.

I haven't read all the thread so not upto speed but I recently converted a Denford router to mach using exisiting motors but with New digital drives and the motors run at worst just little more than warm while cutting. At stand still they are stone cold.
All this talk of Controller handling Current reduction is bullshit, 99.9% it's function of the drive that works regardless whether Mach or PC working or not. Drive just sense's for signals and goes into stand by if not recieved any within period of time.

I'd be checking settings and Motor phase wiring because with only 36v you shoudn't be getting hot. That said how hot is hot did you take temp reading.?

PS: Nice work on the signs.:thumsup:

[magicniner]

Will drop the current one step

First bit if work completed



Andy,
That all looks great, but have you considered adding a V-carve type path about 4mm deep with a V-bit cutter for the outlines?
That would give you near pin-sharp corner definition on characters and graphics where they merge and the cutter diameter cannot manage sharp corners,
Regards,
Nick

[andy_con]

ive dropped the current to 2.4amps and things are a bit cooler, not had to chance to look into anymore of recent. but it is on my big to do list.

thanks for the tips


Ah ah this Makes a change from me being the one clashing heads but rest assured if I hadn't been busy I'd have blasted you just the same.!! . . .Your very out of order Calling MC a Troll. He's one of the nicest and most helpful people on the forum who's replys are considered and well thought out with healthy dose of common sense applied.
He's absolutley Correct in what he was saying, Know this because I'm often the one cleaning up when people with little to no experience dish out advice with such authority that unsuspecting people often desparate to resolve problems fall hook line sinker and take it on board. Only to find out that person was full of shit.!!
Like MC this is also one of my pet hates and like him I'll always jump on people who do this because it's not helping anyone but the Ego of the tosser who's spouting bull shit.!

Have bit more respect for nice guy and don't be so quick to dishout advise if don't know what your on about.!

Andy Con.

I haven't read all the thread so not upto speed but I recently converted a Denford router to mach using exisiting motors but with New digital drives and the motors run at worst just little more than warm while cutting. At stand still they are stone cold.
All this talk of Controller handling Current reduction is bullshit, 99.9% it's function of the drive that works regardless whether Mach or PC working or not. Drive just sense's for signals and goes into stand by if not recieved any within period of time.

I'd be checking settings and Motor phase wiring because with only 36v you shoudn't be getting hot. That said how hot is hot did you take temp reading.?

PS: Nice work on the signs.:thumsup:

[andy_con]

the machine only came with a single 6mm collet so im limited to 6mm shank tools at the moment. ive ordered some more collets from the us which im waiting to arrive, once I get them I can start using more tools.

that engraving one done with a v-bit router tool, but only 0.3mm deep. were I to have the right collet I would have done it 1mm deep with a 1mm end mill

im pretty new to wood, so still learning what gives the best results. ive since painted that engraving so its looks much better now


Andy,
That all looks great, but have you considered adding a V-carve type path about 4mm deep with a V-bit cutter for the outlines?
That would give you near pin-sharp corner definition on characters and graphics where they merge and the cutter diameter cannot manage sharp corners,
Regards,
Nick

[magicniner]

V-Carve paths are 3D and lift the V Bit at the corners to give straight lines/accurate curves right up to any sharp corners,
Regards,
Nick

[andy_con]

no idea how to do that

[magicniner]

no idea how to do that

You have to use a CAM package that supports V-Carve paths, it's the only way to get sharp corners on deep cuts, otherwise you're limited by your tool diameter, it uses the fact that a V-bit cutters diameter varies with depth to give you corners as sharp as the tip cutting diameter of a tapered tool tip.

[andy_con]

I use cambam


You have to use a CAM package that supports V-Carve paths, it's the only way to get sharp corners on deep cuts, otherwise you're limited by your tool diameter, it uses the fact that a V-bit cutters diameter varies with depth to give you corners as sharp as the tip cutting diameter of a tapered tool tip.

[lucan07]

Andy's Statement.

If I leave my triac on over night the motors are stone cold the next day.
If I machine for an hour and half the motors are still stone cold, so just seems odd on the microrouter
My Response as I knew that Triacs I supported at schools cut power to motors and often needed a reset to enable them again, I know
PC's inside out so used them as an example what e.g. means.

Likely the way the standby is accomplished, e.g. a PC can be sleeping completely monitoring a 3.3v micro current or running lots uf stuff in background and just turning screen & disks off.


Ah ah this Makes a change from me being the one clashing heads but rest assured if I hadn't been busy I'd have blasted you just the same.!! . . .Your very out of order Calling MC a Troll. He's one of the nicest and most helpful people on the forum who's replys are considered and well thought out with healthy dose of common sense applied.
He's absolutley Correct in what he was saying, Know this because I'm often the one cleaning up when people with little to no experience dish out advice with such authority that unsuspecting people often desparate to resolve problems fall hook line sinker and take it on board. Only to find out that person was full of shit.!!
I haven't read all the thread so not upto speed

I answered a post and someone takes it out of context, then makes it personal with cr@p about searching for answers to qualify myself to them as if they were something special, that is trolling whether he's a mate of your's or not. He may well be knowledgeable as are you the difference being you take people out of context and afterwards apologise (As yesterday with mach3 graphics) you don't get into a personal attack trolling session.

Tell me how I was wrong (Fact: Triacs went into standby and cut power to motors not re-powering motors until reset from c: prompt), it was a regular occurence whether caused by numpty operators or machine design it happened regularly. So tell me what the male cow excrement is we are talking about. And why talking about the difference between two different machines and possible cause as to why the one without problems motors are cold after being left powered all night. If two machines are left powered one generates the heat in the motor one does not then the manner they handle the power during standby or inaction is probably the reason. I knew from experience triacs did this by totally cutting power to motors so said so, giving the example of a PC in standby or full sleep mode as an example not as a diagnosis of anything.

[magicniner]

I use cambam

It doesn't look like CamBam does V-Carve style tool paths :-(

[andy_con]

It doesn't look like CamBam does V-Carve style tool paths :-(


no word of a lie my 40 trial uses of cambam ended today and I was going to purchase it. maybe there is a better option out there I could spend my money on?

[magicniner]

no word of a lie my 40 trial uses of cambam ended today and I was going to purchase it. maybe there is a better option out there I could spend my money on?

Cambam gets rave reviews and is reasonably priced, I'm not sure you'll get anything with V-Carve toolpaths for anything like the price.

[Neale]

I use Vectric VCarve which does a good job of v-carve toolpaths, and is aimed at woodworkers rather than engineers. It ain't cheap, though. Vectric offer a free trial copy, although as far as I remember it will give a good simulation onscreen of the finished work but will not actually produce gcode. You need the full paid-up version to do that. Certainly at the time I was looking, 2-3 years or so ago, I couldn't find anything else that did such a good job. For the kinds of things you seem to make, VCarve would do pretty well, but as I say, you do have to pay for it. I would be interested to hear if anyone knows of an equally good or better v-carving CAM package that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[JAZZCNC]

I answered a post and someone takes it out of context, then makes it personal with cr@p about searching for answers to qualify myself to them as if they were something special, that is trolling whether he's a mate of your's or not.

He's not mate but he is someone I respect and acknowledge as knowing what he's talking about. Someone who doesn't jump in with replys that are not relative to the OP's setup or about much use fart in space suit. He's valuable contributor to the forum who's probably forgot more than most on here know, you included.!


Tell me how I was wrong (Fact: Triacs went into standby and cut power to motors not re-powering motors until reset from c: prompt), it was a regular occurence whether caused by numpty operators or machine design it happened regularly. So tell me what the male cow excrement is we are talking about.

The fact that what your describing was most likely a Charge pump type setup which is very different to Current reduction.


I knew from experience triacs did this by totally cutting power to motors so said so, giving the example of a PC in standby or full sleep mode as an example not as a diagnosis of anything.

Maybe you didn't know what you thought you knew.!! . . . . Was it really power that was cut or just Signals to the drives by the Charge pump and the Drive did the Current reduction.? Would have been easy to tell because without power the motors would lose holding torque.

But in anycase like MC said you didn't bother to enquire about the OP's setup so how could it be relavent to his machine. It's like OP saying my 10yr old Fiesta won't start and you saying well my Model T ford used to do that when Cranking handle that jumped out of socket.!! . . . Compleltly fucking pointless reply for 10yr old Fiesta.!

[andy_con]

due to £££ I really need a program I can use for both my metal work and wood work. cambam can do both, although its probably not the best for both, it is good middle ground.

[johnsattuk]

Have you had a quick look at Estlcam

[m_c]

There are Vcarve plugins available for CamBam, but it's something I've never tried. Searching for "vcarve" over on the CamBam forums will through up a few threads with various links.

I've looked at Estlcam previously, particularly it's Trochoidal feature. In general I found it a bit simplistic, which limited what you could do with/configure it, however it must be a couple years since I last tried it.
I can't remember exactly why it wouldn't work for me, but I went back to CamBam. I think it was because you had to manually compensate for the cutter width when doing Troichoidal, and Troichoidal was only available for slots, not clearing complete profile sections.

I will say though, Estlcam is good package, and is probably worth buying even if you only use it for certain jobs.

[johnsattuk]

I've looked at Estlcam previously, particularly it's Trochoidal feature. In general I found it a bit simplistic.

I liked/needed simplistic :thumsup: