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John S
23-10-2016, 07:03 PM
Dave, look for the head off a BOSS 1 to 5 but you will need the ram as well as that head is a really solid fixed head that doesn't suffer from the nodding and endless tramming that the rubber Bridgeports suffer from.

Best thing with the BOSS head is the quill is the ball screw. The balls run round the outside of the massive quill so no bolts and no trying to tip to one side.

This is one reason I posted in post #3 to look for one and not do the conversion. Don't know what the conversion has cost but got to be loads more than upgrading an existing CNC.

Hell for a grand you could have had my 10 x 54 CNC Beaver in fully working order with 4th axis, 30 odd BT40 toolholders. 6:1 speed increaser and 8" vise if you were prepared to strip it to get it out.

Davek0974
23-10-2016, 07:16 PM
The head from a BOSS would be nice but not seen anything from a BOSS listed for some time now, seem to be getting very rare.

Whereabouts are you BTW ? ;)

Yes i decided way back in the beginning to go ahead because I just cant fit anything bigger than a manual BP in the shop - no head room at all. Yes it cost a lot but I have had a blast doing the conversion, learnt a lot and still have a usable machine to play with.

The Quill connection I was not happy with from the outset - its a terrible weak spot, unless a much taller connection is made to the quill to spread the load - this then reduces Z travel respectively and I'm already seeing the bad side of poor Z travel and i only lost 5mm from standard!

I think there is some redemption in using the quill rack/pinion - it's the strongest method and as long as backlash is dealt with should be just as accurate.

Colin Barron
23-10-2016, 07:37 PM
Future thoughts...

Machine is working very nicely so far. However I still have big doubts about the weakest link in the system - the Z-axis drive, its a pretty tortured setup, the connection to the quill is poor being just one bolt, the block face is only around 15-20mm square where it bolts on, there is around 75mm from the quill to the ball-screw so there is a massive twisting moment acting on the joint and the ball-nut.

There is already movement visible between the nut and the quill - you can see the connecting arm twisting when nudging the ball-screw pulley by hand so it would be pretty rough under drilling or plunge-milling forces. I can see a very short life for the ball-nut as they don't like twisting moments, axial or radial but not twisting.

It was assembled with loctite but with only the one bolt I doubt that would do much.

I have a feeling it would have been better to go with the drive idea in the pictures below, the quill rack is designed to take all the Bridgeport can do, there is not much backlash and what there is could be helped with a gas-spring maybe to keep it under positive pressure.

No idea what the pinion gearing ratio is but likely something like 3" per turn so would use a bigger reduction from motor.

Just looking ahead, but as i said, I can see issues here already and thats only after a few jobs....

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19487


Hi Dave,
This company has managed to fit the Z drive on the other side of the shaft and have more mounting plate bolts. The z drive is almost at the end of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0Jf-xzE0s

Davek0974
23-10-2016, 07:57 PM
Thanks, yes I've watched that vid a few times ;) Its the same deal really, same shaft in head just different connection styles. Maybe the way to go.

Colin Barron
23-10-2016, 08:15 PM
Dave, look for the head off a BOSS 1 to 5 but you will need the ram as well as that head is a really solid fixed head that doesn't suffer from the nodding and endless tramming that the rubber Bridgeports suffer from.

Best thing with the BOSS head is the quill is the ball screw. The balls run round the outside of the massive quill so no bolts and no trying to tip to one side.

This is one reason I posted in post #3 to look for one and not do the conversion. Don't know what the conversion has cost but got to be loads more than upgrading an existing CNC.

Hell for a grand you could have had my 10 x 54 CNC Beaver in fully working order with 4th axis, 30 odd BT40 toolholders. 6:1 speed increaser and 8" vise if you were prepared to strip it to get it out.

The size and weight is why bigger machines are only a grand. For most garage workshops the 875Kg series 1 manual Bridgeport is probably bigger and heavier than they had wanted to go but they are cheap, lots of info, plenty of spares and the conversions are well documented.

Davek0974
23-10-2016, 08:21 PM
Great if you can find one i guess :)

Davek0974
24-10-2016, 01:36 PM
Thinking out loud...

With the drive to the quill rack, probably from the left side as done in the FlashCut kits etc, without measuring i think the quill pinion does 2 full turns for full travel so about 75mm/turn, with a 4:1 or maybe 5:1 belt reduction from servo to pinion shaft, would that give enough resolution/torque - the motor would only ever do 8 or 10 full revs??

I could probably make a bracket pair which could take one or two layshafts which could offer much higher reduction ratios.

Maybe even look into worm-gear reduction.

Just working things through...

Colin Barron
24-10-2016, 06:37 PM
Is there much backlash on the quill gear, i have seen a drive with a ballscrew on the front of the head.

Davek0974
24-10-2016, 06:52 PM
No the quill pinion is pretty firm. Yes the screw on the front is a popular method because its the only place you can get a direct connection to the quill, trouble is its an awkward connection and i'm not happy with it yet.

Davek0974
25-10-2016, 07:33 PM
Finally scraped up the cash for proper thrust bearings on the X & Y axes. Got Nachi P4 matched pairs from BearingBoys Ltd


I fitted them in DB or back-to-back style, seemed the best option here - the preload is taken up by the screw nut rather than the bearing retainer.

What a difference, smooth as silk now and no shims needed :)

Will measure backlash again to see what change it has made.

m_c
26-10-2016, 12:34 AM
Dave, have you get any pictures of the existing setup/quill?

Davek0974
26-10-2016, 08:18 AM
A few pics here...


194901949119489

The weak spot is the joint between the coupler and the quill - there is a flat recess milled on the quill about 15mm dia and i picked up on that face, it really needs more contact above and below the bolt but then you lose more z axis travel and thats bad enough already.

Its the little round boss on the right of this part...
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m_c
26-10-2016, 10:24 AM
How much Z travel would you lose, if you bridged between the current single bolt mounting, and the end of the quill (where you currently clamp on the second spindle bracket)?
.
If you were to bridge between the two, then you should get a stable piece to then mount the ball nut to.

Davek0974
26-10-2016, 10:53 AM
I can see where you are coming from here, nice idea and would certain strengthen it 100%.

But as always there is a negative - it would stop me being able to fit the aux spindle.

By having the support on the end of the quill when running as a normal bridgeport, I would maybe lose 12-15mm of travel - not too bad. But to allow me space to fit the aux spindle as well below it, the support would have to be that much further up the quill, probably losing 40mm + of travel permanently - this would cause big issues when doing normal work.

But it is a nice idea though.

m_c
26-10-2016, 11:10 AM
Rework the Aux spindle mount, so it attaches to the new adapter?

Davek0974
26-10-2016, 11:33 AM
It's possible, the main draw-back is the loss of the already limited Z travel when doing normal work - this is a big pain in the wotsit really. Not so bad on the aux spindle as all the tools are so short as is the work itself.

To make it really work would need the knee setting up as an axis and diverting all tool-length measurements to that axis - this would mean cutting is done on the quill but the loss of travel would not be as serious.

I still feel the quill rack is a way forwards, won't cost much to try at least.

Colin Barron
26-10-2016, 11:59 AM
Maybe a totally stupid off at a tangent idea but could you build an assembly just for that purpose on the other end of the ram, then you could leave it setup and it would not get in the way of normal milling. Sorry, did not see earlier post.

Davek0974
26-10-2016, 12:05 PM
Which purpose?

If you mean the auxiliary spindle - this is only mounted when i need it, that was the whole idea really - its a normal Bridgeport plus a high-speed engraving/milling machine when needed.

The back of the ram was looked at, but adding a full Z-axis of any rigidity would be a considerable task, the aux idea is less cost and means not swivelling the ram.

I have even seen a full linear rail Z axis mounted between the ram and the existing mill head - the user locked the quill up all the time and moved the whole head up and down. Sounds nice but to get it working would not be cheap or easy i feel.

Davek0974
26-10-2016, 08:58 PM
Quill drive idea mk1,

gives a 16:1 reduction, takes up little space, mounts to existing threaded holes on left side of head.

19498

Should allow both belts to be tightened by having only one moving shaft.

Davek0974
27-10-2016, 02:53 PM
Anyone have a video or link to some pics of a powered knee mill conversion?

Seems a lot of people rate it but i cant find any proof! http://machsupport.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif

Still deciding which way to go.

John S
27-10-2016, 03:04 PM
Quill drive idea mk1,

gives a 16:1 reduction, takes up little space, mounts to existing threaded holes on left side of head.

19498

Should allow both belts to be tightened by having only one moving shaft.

What about backlash in the rack and pinion ? ?

Davek0974
27-10-2016, 04:08 PM
What about backlash in the rack and pinion ? ?

That is my main issue, its fairly tight but will have some BL in it. I was possibly thinking of some method of applying constant up force to the quill from where the existing drive is now, not sure how or what though.

Its a pain really - so close but not there yet, i know for a fact that the existing drive will fail and probably quite soon so doing nothing is not an option.

I have been looking at powering the knee and locking the quill but i still have my doubts about the knee ways and short life etc, plus the cost - ball-screw, bigger servo and drive, hardware, probably going to run about 600 just to do the knee, more if it needs a brake to stop it falling when turned off.

Then there is the speed issue - from what i have read, the knee is slow, peck drilling is going to suck as well as a few other jobs too - V-engraving would take ages due to the thousands of up/down moves used.

Just a bit baffled as to what to do really

Davek0974
28-10-2016, 08:16 AM
This seems a pretty neat way of backlash control - its a brake cable from a motorbike, one end is mounted to quill and the other has an air cylinder on it with variable pressure. The guy that fitted it also fitted a very tidy gear reduction system in the aluminium casing on the left, 15:1 ratio, double reduction. He reports zero backlash and full quill travel :)

19502

I think on cost alone, it has to be worth a try to run via the quill rack, powering the knee at any speed is going to take some time to save up for.

Davek0974
29-10-2016, 11:20 AM
Measuring on the adaptor from the Z screw to the quill, near the quill, I have well over 0.5mm of flex - thats a bad figure as it equates to backlash at the tool, so doing nothing here is not an option.

So, looking at the options -

Power the quill via the left side of the pinion shaft, this has slop in it so will need some clever way of preloading the quill upwards - this could lead to rapid rack/pinion wear as it will need enough preload to counter cutting forces from pulling the tool downwards.

Power the knee - this is an option but will cost a lot as it needs a ball-screw, servo, drive plus full tear-down to fit it all.

Alter what i have got - looking at the picture below, is there any harm in removing the web of metal circled?? It would mean i can get a bigger connecting arm in there with much more contact below the bolt to resist the down-forces, without losing any Z travel.

19503

Davek0974
29-10-2016, 05:00 PM
After some thought I reckon the easiest option based on what i have going already is to modify the quill housing and build a better connector arm - this should give more rigidity and still maintain the full Z travel.


In the attached picture, on the left is the existing setup, on the right is my next version - as you can see, in the existing one a lot of twisting moment is placed on the bolt when the arm is pushed down (heavy lines).

In the new version, the twist is converted to an axial pull on the bolt and the force transferred to the quill body via the longer contact face below.



19505

Davek0974
30-10-2016, 05:47 PM
That was a long day!

Stripped the head, cut away the small web of cast at the bottom of the quill slot, altered the screw connector by welding on a 13mm thick bar underneath, the end of the bar was milled to the curvature of the quill before stripping, fitted up, refitted the Z drive and shimmed the connector, power head back on, motor back on, encoder back on, tested.

The connector now has an extra 25mm of contact below the quill bolt which is a massive improvement over the first attempt, this makes a big difference to the twisting effect on the quill bolt and is now far more rigid in the downward direction which is what matters.

Total backlash is now down from 0.6mm+ to 0.1mm and I also discovered that most of that backlash is caused by the BK screw block not clamping the screw correctly - this was always there but never spotted it before. I will strip that block and see whats wrong with it - either crap bearings or sleeves too short and the nut not reaching properly.

I don't think this one is getting any stiffer (ooh err!) :encouragement:
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Clive S
30-10-2016, 05:51 PM
It's always nice when a plan comes together:toot:

Davek0974
30-10-2016, 06:06 PM
It's always nice when a plan comes together:toot:

Thanks, it wouldn't have worked without removing that little web of casting though:)

Davek0974
27-11-2016, 02:26 PM
What can make the tool not follow the path correctly?

Did some work today and as seen here its clearly pulling away from the corners far too early - corner rounding?

19725

Not quite so clear here...

19724

Cutter was 2mm at 23000rpm, 1000mm/min, X&Y speed set at 3500mm/min and 350mm/s/s in motor tuning.

JAZZCNC
27-11-2016, 02:46 PM
Your getting because of constant velocity and tight radius most likely caused by low accelleration. Try setting accelration higher and see if better.

Davek0974
27-11-2016, 02:51 PM
Ok, what sort of acceleration should i be aiming for if i have a top speed of 3500mm/min and bearing in mind this is a Bridgeport with a fairly heavy table;)

JAZZCNC
27-11-2016, 02:54 PM
Ok, what sort of acceleration should i be aiming for if i have a top speed of 3500mm/min and bearing in mind this is a Bridgeport with a fairly heavy table;)

I'd up it until starts stalling motors then back it off 25%. 750s/s would be nice figure to aim for.

Davek0974
27-11-2016, 02:58 PM
Ok, i'll try upping it but it would not stall - it has some fairly big AC servo's on it and a 2:1 reduction so damage would occur first i think or drive shut-down maybe.

JAZZCNC
27-11-2016, 03:02 PM
Ok forgot you have servos But same applies really however instead of stalling you'll get position errors or drive trips.! . . . You'll know if OTT

Davek0974
27-11-2016, 03:08 PM
Ok I'll dive in tomorrow night, thats the thing with servo's - you have to set an acceleration and top speed then tune the servo drive, it takes a fair bit of time to do each axis.

Boyan Silyavski
27-11-2016, 03:46 PM
But left side corners are undercut and right side corners are overcut, from what i see. So i dont think its the acceleration. What does that tell? To me- mechanical play.

Davek0974
27-11-2016, 03:54 PM
no, the corners are "dog-boned" or "T-boned" to get a square object in there.

maximum play is 0.04mm on any axis.

Davek0974
29-11-2016, 06:49 PM
Instant improvement, same code as before, same feeds etc just the increased acceleration in motor tuning.

Nice corners, no sign of rounding at all. :friendly_wink:

At least it now works up to 1000mm/min feed rates, no idea how much beyond that as i have no job that needs it.

19737

19738

JAZZCNC
29-11-2016, 06:59 PM
But left side corners are undercut and right side corners are overcut, from what i see. So i dont think its the acceleration. What does that tell? To me- mechanical play.

That tells me you know nothing.! . .:hysterical::joker:

AndyGuid
30-11-2016, 02:01 AM
Cutter was 2mm at 23000rpm, 1000mm/min, X&Y speed set at 3500mm/min and 350mm/s/s in motor tuning.
19724


Instant improvement, same code as before, same feeds etc just the increased acceleration in motor tuning.
Nice corners, no sign of rounding at all. :friendly_wink:
At least it now works up to 1000mm/min feed rates, no idea how much beyond that as i have no job that needs it.
19738

Just to clarify please, that the only difference between the Before and After results above was an increase in acceleration in motor tuning?

That's quite amazing!

P.S. Apologies that the first damn image (Attachment 19724) keeps appearing and then disappearing from automatic display!!!

Davek0974
30-11-2016, 08:11 AM
Yep, i made a point of not changing anything else at all, just double the acceleration figure in motor tuning, verified my following errors in pid tuning then run the code. Following error did not alter which is good.

JAZZCNC
30-11-2016, 09:50 PM
Just to clarify please, that the only difference between the Before and After results above was an increase in acceleration in motor tuning?

That's quite amazing!

Andy Acceleration can make huge difference to how machine performs, not only in quality of cut but also Cycle times.

Often on Smaller jobs with lots of very short moves ie: V carving engraving setting Accelleration higher and lowering velocity can increase cycle times quite drasticly.
In daves case the cause was being set to constant velocity mode G64. Meaning the control trys to maintain constant feed rate around corners. Obviously the laws of physics come into play at some point and becomes impossible to maintain this rate around tight corners.
Simplisticly put It does this by overlapping Accelleration needed for the new move with De-accelaration of the current move and the point they meet is when corner rounding occurs.
So obviously if acceleration is low then de-acceleration must happen sooner and the point they meet is further up the road. Think of it like car with poor skinny tyres and throttle stuck on.!! You turn sooner to get around corner else you crash.!! . . Having higher acceleration is like Car with brand new wide tyres so can turn later.

If you want to follow the Tool path exactly you'd use G61 Exact stop mode. Which goes exactly from point A to B and repeats for each following move. The down side of this can be very jurky movement and pause at each start/end point. If Cam software creates Arcs with tiny little lines G61 with high feedrate can shake machine to pieces.!
To see this in action Try some G-code which doesn't have G64 at the top or change to G61. If doesn't have in code Type G61 in MDI before running.

Davek0974
03-02-2017, 09:24 AM
Hi all,

been a while since this thread :shame:

For those who don't know, my Bridgeport was rebuilt with servos and larger motor, plus i added an auxiliary high speed spindle for aluminium work. The job in hand is shown in the pictures below, 5mm Aluminium, lots of holes and intricate features. I use 2mm single-flute and 5mm single-flute carbide tools for these.

Previously, I had already built a custom mini-mill to make these (and learn CNC) and still have this (its currently up for sale but no takers yet).

My reason for adding the aux spindle to the Bridgeport was two-fold - one, to save space and two, to make more use of the very expensive Bridgeport conversion which would otherwise only see intermittent use.

Now, when doing these on the Bridgeport, I am seeing bad vibration or chatter on the tool, it appears to be vertical oscillation but tonight also suffered bad enough radial oscillation to break a 5mm tool ! When it goes into oscillation it makes you jump as its very noisy and you instantly know it will end badly either in poor finish or broken tooling. Tonight I was testing tool sent from my supplier as a "Better" option :ambivalence: this was a two-flute carbide, probably the reason for the breakage as two-flute tools need a more rigid setup.

So, something is not happy - my reservation is the spindle mount (shown below) - its canted out over to one side and although it's clamped to the quill and into an R8 collet in the main spindle, it must be allowing deflection from the cutting forces.

Ok, so I have a bad situation, is there a way forward here?

Obviously I can take the dust-sheets off the mini-mill and carry on but I just don't have the space long-term and wanted to make more use of the Bridgeport as mentioned. I really want a one-size fits all solution here.

If I run the small tooling on the BP main spindle at 3000rpm (top whack) the run time per part-set will go from about 30minutes to several hours probably - feed rates go from 900mm/min to 25mm/min so i don't think thats an option - it needs more RPM's.

What can be done here guys???

Spindle-speeders?? I have seen these but they have mixed reviews and i doubt they would like a 5mm tool much as mostly used for engraving etc.

One idea I quite like is to spin the ram on the BP around and build a custom Z-axis completely, and mount it where the BP slotting head normally sits. This could be built as heavily as desired with linear guides and a servo or stepper etc.

20574

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20576

m_c
03-02-2017, 11:45 AM
The first thing that springs to mind, is how much play is in the quill?

By bolting onto the quill the way you have, any play in the quill will be greatly magnified at the second spindle, so it's probably not taken much extra wear to go from tolerable to a problem.

Creating a new Z-axis assembly sounds like the best long term solution.

Davek0974
03-02-2017, 12:01 PM
Yes, I was working through this on the drive to work this morning ;)

There will be play, must be or it would seize, plus being umpty years old i guess there will be a measurable amount.

The setup is perfect on the 2mm tools or engraving etc so it seems somewhere between 2mm and 5mm tooling is a point where cutter force and reaction come into play and bite me in the arse.

I am leaning towards a fully custom Z axis now, this brings about its own set of issues of course -

Will have to move machine away from rear wall,
..Can't move machine away from rear wall as the head hits the roof truss,
....Will have to radically modify roof truss to make clearance,
The list goes on - sometimes i hate my garage shop.

Next is - steel or aluminium build??

I am visioning it as being just a larger version of the Z axis on my mini-mill so two flat plates with rails and a screw sandwiched between, servo motor to drive and a toothed belt?

It does not need massive rails as the biggest tool is likely to be 5-6mm max so probably the same 20mm HiWin and a 1605 screw, maybe use stuff with a pre-load this time??

The hard part is working out the connection to the rear of the ram and where to put strengthening trusses/plates etc - the rear of a BP ram is a spigot maybe 50mm tall, 110mm wide and 100mm deep with a 20mm hole central - that is all i have to mount off of.

So, something like 25mm tooling plate all round or go steel and weld etc where possible.??

m_c
03-02-2017, 12:28 PM
My thought would be to weld the BP side, as it gives you more flexibility in terms of bracing/reinforcing. You would ideally need to stress relief it before doing the final machining for the rails, to minimise any long term stability issues.

Davek0974
03-02-2017, 12:34 PM
So, welded interconnect plate, relieve, then machine square etc.

Then build the motion parts in Alu ?

Davek0974
04-02-2017, 09:26 AM
Hmmm,

Just been playing speeds & feeds for my single flute 5mm tool...

Manufacturer specs...
12k Rpm
2.5m DOC
1800mm/min feed - insane i think?

My previous settings...
12k rpm
2.5mm DOC
900-1000mm/min feed

F&S Calculator recomendations...
12k rpm
1.8mm DOC
280mm/min feed - much lower ?

Maybe these lighter settings will be better?

Its only the bigger tool that has issues so does seem to be a stress problem, I will also attach a bungee cord to the head to try and remove any rotational slack in the quill.

Davek0974
04-02-2017, 04:23 PM
Ok, did some tests, first was to measure slack in the z axis at the adaptor in line with the high speed spindle - I have 0.02mm vertical (with reasonable force) and 0.15mm rotational around the quill - no doubt the source of my trouble.

Left cuts in the first picture below was at the feed recommended by my S&F calculator shown in the last post, 2 passes of 1.25mm ea, top cut is with me applying pressure to the motor while cutting to remove slack, the lower cut is with it running free as normal.

Both cuts look fine, no burr on the lip and pretty much perfect.

The right cuts in the first pic show results of a single 2.5mm DOC pass, same feed rate, again with hand pressure on the top pass and free on the lower.

Both cuts are acceptable this time but they show signs of vibration on the bottom surface - this is not an issue here as this tool is a roughing tool and will cut right through on these parts.

the second pic is just a closer view of the vibration on the second cuts.

Seems I just have to back off on the fast pedal a bit and let her do her thing, plus fit a bungee cord to remove the slop.

20590

20589

redtom99
25-04-2017, 12:39 AM
Ok, did some tests, first was to measure slack in the z axis at the adaptor in line with the high speed spindle - I have 0.02mm vertical (with reasonable force) and 0.15mm rotational around the quill - no doubt the source of my trouble.

Left cuts in the first picture below was at the feed recommended by my S&F calculator shown in the last post, 2 passes of 1.25mm ea, top cut is with me applying pressure to the motor while cutting to remove slack, the lower cut is with it running free as normal.

Both cuts look fine, no burr on the lip and pretty much perfect.

The right cuts in the first pic show results of a single 2.5mm DOC pass, same feed rate, again with hand pressure on the top pass and free on the lower.

Both cuts are acceptable this time but they show signs of vibration on the bottom surface - this is not an issue here as this tool is a roughing tool and will cut right through on these parts.

the second pic is just a closer view of the vibration on the second cuts.

Seems I just have to back off on the fast pedal a bit and let her do her thing, plus fit a bungee cord to remove the slop.

20590

20589

Davek0974
20-01-2018, 05:42 PM
Started modifying my conversion - I am powering the knee with a servo so i can send it tool length offsets, this will give me full Z travel with any length tool, hopefully.

Got the motor mount fitted today, hopefully get the limits and home switch fitted tomorrow:)

23631

Davek0974
21-01-2018, 02:35 PM
Got the limits and home switch fitted today, moving switches and fixed cams so I could do it all with two switches :)
Top switch is limit and bottom is home.

23640

had to alter my plan of homing to top as with the vise fitted the bed will crash...

23641

All the way down, a lot of cranking....

23642

Wired the limit switch into the loop, just the home to take back to cabinet...

23643

Davek0974
22-01-2018, 08:20 PM
I'd forgotten how busy it was in the cabinet :)

http://davekearley.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/IMG_2069.jpg

The knee axis servo drive will have go on the right-side wall i think.

Hopefully get the drive temporarily fitted tomorrow and powered up the day after.

Davek0974
23-01-2018, 07:32 PM
Ok, got it wired and powered up.

Little snag to start with, i'm a bit rusty here....

When you take Mach out of reset, the servo starts creeping without command, anyone give a pointer as to where i start digging??

It does not creep for long as you get an ePid fault.

Thanks :)

m_c
23-01-2018, 07:48 PM
It sounds like the drive is enabled, but not under closed loop control, so it's creeping until a following error gets triggered.

The drive shouldn't be getting enabled until the servo loop is active, and able to control things.

Davek0974
23-01-2018, 07:57 PM
Hmm, I followed the same wiring style as the other axes, the drives all enable together from one signal.

Is that the loop between the servo and controller?

Maybe check the connections in the servo cable, that was a pre-made one that came with the motor and controller.

m_c
23-01-2018, 08:00 PM
Is the +/-10 connected correctly, and the drive configured to use the correct analogue input?
And is the CSMIO configured to use the correct channel?

Davek0974
23-01-2018, 08:12 PM
AFIK yes, i'll double-check the setup tomorrow night.

I'm setting up as the C axis or channel 5 on the CSMIO.

I'll try disconnecting the -10/0/10v lines to see if creeps on its own.

Dave

Davek0974
23-01-2018, 10:25 PM
Is the +/-10 connected correctly, and the drive configured to use the correct analogue input?
And is the CSMIO configured to use the correct channel?

Kudos to you - i had the encoder on C axis but analogue on A axis :)

Its running now, needs more tuning as it oscillates when it stops after homing.

Not sure what axis is best, the 2010 screen set seems to be set for XYZA but a good friend advised C axis was more aligned with the Z axis.

At least its alive :)

Chaz
24-01-2018, 04:43 PM
Ok, got it wired and powered up.

Little snag to start with, i'm a bit rusty here....

When you take Mach out of reset, the servo starts creeping without command, anyone give a pointer as to where i start digging??

It does not creep for long as you get an ePid fault.

Thanks :)

Enable 'HV Enable' in Mach3 CS Labs plugin. Use the output to drive a relay that enables your drives.

If E Stop or limit is hit, HV Enable will go away and by default your drives will dead stop (remove enable from them). This is what I do on Thor and I have done on other conversions.

Chaz
24-01-2018, 04:44 PM
Page 39 of the current CS Labs IP-A manual .....

Davek0974
24-01-2018, 04:49 PM
Thanks, I use a supply line e-stop Pilz safety relay and main contactor and safety circuit, its totally separate from the controller for extra safety. It kills power to all drives and the spindle in use but leaves the controller and PC active.

Its running now though.

Chaz
24-01-2018, 04:52 PM
Thanks, I use a supply line e-stop Pilz safety relay and main contactor and safety circuit, its totally separate from the controller for extra safety. It kills power to all drives and the spindle in use but leaves the controller and PC active.

Its running now though.

Problem is that the drives will creep unless you can find the bias sweet spot on the drives.

Davek0974
24-01-2018, 07:01 PM
All drives now steady and happy. :)

Just takes a bit of fiddling in setup

Gone for a relaxed speed - no point in thrashing the bevels etc.

Did an auto-set on the steps per, preliminary accuracy tests seem to show repeatability of -0/+0.02mm which think is pretty good for an uncompensated heavy knee. I could only test over 50mm as thats all my DTI will do so no idea yet what a long shift will do but most tools are within 100mm of each other so shouldn't be an issue i think.

Can move on to macro tweaking now.

Davek0974
25-01-2018, 09:03 PM
M6Start macro sorted, it works really well using measuring tools instead of real tools, I'll give it a go on a real job at the weekend once i've finished testing etc.

Its a most impressive add-on, she now has 350mm of clearance on the bed :)

Chaz
25-01-2018, 09:25 PM
Congrats, any vids?

Davek0974
25-01-2018, 10:07 PM
Thanks, hope to get a vid or two at the weekend - evenings are just too short :)

Just need to iron out a bug in the index homing, might be noise from the rough lash-up i'm using or may need to move the home switch a little.

Davek0974
28-01-2018, 03:20 PM
Congrats, any vids?

Here you go - bit rough as hard to video while pushing buttons :)

https://youtu.be/npuQk2Ao7UY

Also tested my homing accuracy...
https://youtu.be/55VjHRgzt9s
https://youtu.be/SUt1NiHZYIg
https://youtu.be/fLXJXyGhipw
https://youtu.be/sGrpzJVhkSk

Can't ask for better i think :)

Chaz
28-01-2018, 04:43 PM
Nice, do you have a high speed spindle fit to the machine too? If so, any pics of the mounting please? I have a friend that will be interested to do the same.

Davek0974
28-01-2018, 05:38 PM
Nice, do you have a high speed spindle fit to the machine too? If so, any pics of the mounting please? I have a friend that will be interested to do the same.

Here you go...
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,32513.500.html

Chaz
28-01-2018, 06:01 PM
Here you go...
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,32513.500.html

Thanks

scubatricky
20-02-2018, 11:52 AM
G84 is rigid tap cycle.

You should have bought one of these.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/4axis%20mill.jpg


450 landed in UK.

No computer, no monitor, no windows license, no Mach licence, No CSIO box of tricks.

Does rigid tapping, tool changer, pendant, all built in.

These are going to be a game changer in the future.

Link to seller?

Davek0974
20-02-2018, 02:54 PM
Link to seller?

http://www.cncmakers.com/cnc/controllers/CNC_Controllers_for_Milling/

;)

Davek0974
23-02-2018, 01:43 PM
The old girl is now sporting a QC30 spindle with BT30 drawbar :)

Better tool position and one step nearer to an ATC.

23806

JAZZCNC
23-02-2018, 03:42 PM
Link to seller?

Sadly my old mate John S is no longer with us but this was the place he got one from. Not sure they still have same model.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/CNC-Controller/324577_212162836.html

Muzzer
23-02-2018, 11:33 PM
I've got one of these and it's been controlling my Shizuoka 3 axis machine for the last 6 months or so. It seems to do most stuff you'd want but the Chinglish is too strong to understand in many places - it's just machine translated. It's not a bad solution but there are some areas I've just given up on. There are only so many hundred hours you can spend trying to figure stuff out.

I'm going to remove it from my main CNC machine and use it instead on my Bridgeport conversion. For the main machine I've just bought a Centroid Acorn. Didn't think I'd go this way but I really don't fancy the investment of time required to implement Linuxcnc but the Newker controller isn't working out for me.

I found 2 companies that seem to sell the exact same product. As ever, it's not clear who designed it and who manufactures it but they are different entities.

Newker (http://www.newker-cnc.com/en/tf_product.asp?ln=0) is the brand I bought. The 4 axis mid range product is the 990MDb (M means milling, T means turning). I bought mine in China when I was there and brought it back myself. I paid about 350. That's not bad value....

Newkye (http://www.newkye.com/h-pr--0_573_1.html) is the other place. The manuals are identical and so are the products, so not much to choose between them.

There are some videos of the machine and controller in use on my YT channel.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo5vJdD8q3xQ0xCrZfi9dIA/videos?view_as=subscriber

Murray

If you fancy a stab at the Baidu Chinglish Challenge, follow the link to the manual (https://pan.baidu.com/s/1qXUP1NI).