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magicniner
10-06-2016, 10:34 AM
Windows 10 is much better than Windows 8 or anything else before.

You missed YMMV and IMHO out of that.
Wait until Microsoft furnishes you with an update which breaks a critical hardware or software function, unless you are on a paid license model you have no choice in accepting updates ;-)
Your free license version lasts "for the life of the hardware" that means until Microsoft removes support for your hardware from the OS, not until the hardware is no longer serviceable :D

A_Camera
10-06-2016, 10:53 AM
You missed YMMV and IMHO out of that.
Wait until Microsoft furnishes you with an update which breaks a critical hardware or software function, unless you are on a paid license model you have no choice in accepting updates ;-)
Your free license version lasts "for the life of the hardware" that means until Microsoft removes support for your hardware from the OS, not until the hardware is no longer serviceable :D
I think you don't understand what you are talking about. I am on paid license for ALL my computers. I have W7pro and W8pro licenses and for all of us Microsoft issued a free upgrade to W10. W10 is very stable and is perfectly OK for Mach3. I am not talking about Beta release or pirated OS, I am talking about perfectly legit use of licensed software. Go visit Microsoft and find out more. At least here in Sweden, the free offer ends on the 29th July, I know this because I have just updated my last computer yesterday.

magicniner
10-06-2016, 12:33 PM
I think you don't understand what you are talking about. I am on paid license for ALL my computers. I have W7pro and W8pro licenses and for all of us Microsoft issued a free upgrade to W10. W10 is very stable and is perfectly OK for Mach3. I am not talking about Beta release or pirated OS, I am talking about perfectly legit use of licensed software. Go visit Microsoft and find out more. At least here in Sweden, the free offer ends on the 29th July, I know this because I have just updated my last computer yesterday.

Yada, Yada,Yada,
I didn't mention Pirate, methinks you protest too much :D
But if you knew anything you'd know that Microsoft are even giving W10 away to owners of pirate systems too so it's almost impossible to have a pirate of W10 at the moment!
It's very sad but you are the one who doesn't understand Microsoft or Microsoft's licence model for W10, they are giving it away at the moment to private individuals, but, using their paid subscription licence model for W10 Corporate Clients is the only way you will be able to test updates to see what they break and decide when and if to roll them out to yout IT estate.
I know this because I can read, and can be bothered to read.
Plus, you addressed none of the valid points I raised and simply went off on your "I'm not a Pirate, Honest!?" Microsoft Fan Boy rant.
Enjoy!

A_Camera
10-06-2016, 12:38 PM
Yada, Yada,Yada,
I didn't mention Pirate, methinks you protest too much :D
But if you knew anything you'd know that Microsoft are even giving W10 away to owners of pirate systems too so it's almost impossible to have a pirate of W10 at the moment!
It's very sad but you are the one who doesn't understand Microsoft or Microsoft's licence model for W10, they are giving it away at the moment to private individuals, but, using their paid subscription licence model for W10 Corporate Clients is the only way you will be able to test updates to see what they break and decide when and if to roll them out to yout IT estate.
I know this because I can read, and can be bothered to read.
Plus, you addressed none of the valid points I raised and simply went off on your "I'm not a Pirate, Honest!?" Microsoft Fan Boy rant.
Enjoy!


Take a chill pill...

Which valid points did you raise to be more precise? You ripped ONE sentence out of my post and started hacking like a mad chicken. The problem the OP is having is intermittent short pauses. That is a TYPICAL indication of PC resource handling, or perhaps Mach3 setup issue. Windows 8 is not good, Windows 7 64 bit is very good and generally working well, but Windows 10 is better. What is your problem with that? Which of those words do you misinterpret as a fanboy talk?

Anyway, why would you advise the OP against using Windows10? After all, since you know so much, you should know that rolling back to Windows 8 in his case would just take a few minutes without loss of data if he would be unhappy with it. Or you think Bill gates is stealing his data and Microsoft will sabotage everything for him? In that case it is too late already because he is already using Windows 8, which is also a Microsoft product.

Methinks... you are the one protesting too much because you have no clue, just work up yourself over something which you misunderstand or don't understand at all. There is no test release for W10, the Beta test period is over, that was the release Microsoft gave away free for everyone, even pirate OS users. License validity is checked now, and the release which is out now is the one which will replace W7 and W8, support for those will end, just like it ended for XP. Time for you to take a reality check.

AndyGuid
10-06-2016, 12:55 PM
Windows 10 is much better than Windows 8 or anything else before, the only possible "disadvantage" is that it no longer supports the parallel port.
~ IMO that is simply a load of poppycock A_Camera! Whilst Windows10 does provide some improvements over previous Windows versions, it has plenty of disadvantages and comes at a very high cost IMO in that it requires that you sell your soul to their brave new world of dumbed-down forced maintenance, at their whim, as often and whenever they deem it necessary, while showing TOTAL AND UTTER CONTEMPT for you and your immediate priorities! ! ! ! !
.

You missed YMMV and IMHO out of that.
Wait until Microsoft furnishes you with an update which breaks a critical hardware or software function, unless you are on a paid license model you have no choice in accepting updates ;-)
Your free license version lasts "for the life of the hardware" that means until Microsoft removes support for your hardware from the OS, not until the hardware is no longer serviceable :D

I think you don't understand what you are talking about. I am on paid license for ALL my computers. I have W7pro and W8pro licenses and for all of us Microsoft issued a free upgrade to W10. W10 is very stable and is perfectly OK for Mach3. I am not talking about Beta release or pirated OS, I am talking about perfectly legit use of licensed software. Go visit Microsoft and find out more. At least here in Sweden, the free offer ends on the 29th July, I know this because I have just updated my last computer yesterday.
.
"Go visit Microsoft and find out more." is like asking a politician to answer questions, they will only ever tell you what they want you to hear. And their offer is anything but free.
.
I have upgraded a few laptops to Windows10, including my own which I have subsequently taken back to Windows7 where it will stay for the rest of it's earthy life and I will also revert to Windows7 on any new laptop I buy in the foreseeable future. Until I can find the time to move away from Windows onto something else, as I've had enough of MS!
.
Unless you're happy having that amorphous mass that is Microsoft having incredible power over your resources, my suggestion is stay clear of Windows10 while you can!
Which, believe me, is easier said than done ~ https://www.change.org/p/the-electonic-frontier-foundation-have-the-eff-investigate-microsoft-for-malicious-practices-regarding-windows-10
.
Apologies to the OP for this somewhat off subject sub-thread. :highly_amused:

magicniner
10-06-2016, 01:03 PM
Take a chill pill...

If you can be bothered to get some facts right, sure!

Pirate! (Not ;-) )

A_Camera
10-06-2016, 01:35 PM
~ IMO that is simply a load of poppycock A_Camera!

:applouse:

Fine, but your soul is already sold to Microsoft since you are using Windows 7 and 10. BTW, did you really read what I wrote? I did mention that Windows 7 is very good, at least the 64 bit version I was using. I would just NOT use Windows 8, that's all. The way I see it, anything is better than Windows 8.

Anyway, what will you do if support stops for Windows 7? Go Linux or buy a Mac? Sure you can do that, but then you can't use Mach any more... can you? You like it or not, in the long term, we have not too many options.

magicniner
10-06-2016, 01:40 PM
Which valid points did you raise to be more precise? .

Learn to read English!

Wait until Microsoft furnishes you with an update which breaks a critical hardware or software function, unless you are on a paid license model you have no choice in accepting updates ;-)
Your free license version lasts "for the life of the hardware" that means until Microsoft removes support for your hardware from the OS, not until the hardware is no longer serviceable :D

I hate to copy and re-post for the hard of reading and the hard of understanding but you asked directly and as you clearly fall into both categories of need I'll break the habit this once :D

magicniner
10-06-2016, 01:52 PM
:applouse:

Fine, but your soul is already sold to Microsoft since you are using Windows 7

Knobsock!
A Microsoft Alumnus gave me retail boxed produce FOC for the help I give him, who's sold anything to anyone, FanBoy!
:-D

A_Camera
10-06-2016, 02:01 PM
Learn to read English!

Very good point. Sorry, I didn't go to the snobby schools you seem to have...


Wait until Microsoft furnishes you with an update which breaks a critical hardware or software function, unless you are on a paid license model you have no choice in accepting updates ;-)
...which is why I mentioned pirated OS vs. PAID version. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding, but you sure got overly excited about my comment regarding licensed OS vs. pirated and I have no idea why.

Your free license version lasts "for the life of the hardware" that means until Microsoft removes support for your hardware from the OS, not until the hardware is no longer serviceable :D
Once again, it is NOT a free license, it is an upgarde, or call it software update, for those who have PAID W7 and W8 licenses. Previously MS offered free licenses for anyone, but that was NOT what I was talking about.


I hate to copy and re-post for the hard of reading and the hard of understanding but you asked directly and as you clearly fall into both categories of need I'll break the habit this once :D

I think if you re-read your post and my post with a cooler mind and relaxed, more open minded attitude you should understand better what I meant. I don't know what p!ssed you off so much, all I said was that W10 is better than any other Windows before. Perhaps you disagree, and I have no problems with that, but if you disagree than state your facts, not just some doom day prophetic prediction of negativity. Your chest beating arrogant responses are really pretty difficult to understand.

magicniner
10-06-2016, 02:47 PM
Failure to respond to repeatedly stated valid issues with W10 - mandatory updates/life of hardware tells me you don't have answers but continue to post other crap trying to cover the fact that you don't have answers.

Your "upgrade" is a free license for W10 for Microsoft's definition of "the life of your hardware", future upgrades will leave users with an OS which will not run on their hardware and the answer will be "end of 'support' life"
You haven't paid for it and it is supplied "as is", when your computer is no longer supported you will buy another, even if your hardware is good.

W10 is probably better for your limited use than what you've managed to use before, pompously stating that it is simply "better" than everything before is utter rubbish unless you add the caveat "for me", which you don't.

Looks like plain English is hard to understand so I'll repeat W10 - mandatory updates(you can't decide and if it breaks your hardware/software you wait for a fix, if it ever comes) /life of hardware (as defined by Microsoft's support for your hardware) support for your license.

You jumped in accusing me of failure to understand, in a way that's right, I don't understand why you don't understand, it's all fairly simple. Your statement that "roll back" to the previous operating system is simple is a cut and paste from Microsoft press releases, this is not the real world experience of users, many have rolled back to an unuseable system if you had actual knowledge of this you'd know that many roll-backs leave customers without software and hardware functionality and you would't be so irresponsible as to tout it as risk-free.

In a nutshell you're posting rubbish and Microsoft marketing and touting it as truth, if you'd said it was best for some people you'd have been right but you didn't so you're wrong.

Simple.

Lee Roberts
10-06-2016, 07:34 PM
Guys,

I've stepped in to moderate this as a new thread from the original "Brain farts (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/9940-Brain-farts?goto=newpost)" thread, as while this discussion could be a worthwhile one to have, it's now off topic for the original thread and I think more polite if continued here.

As a refresher on participating:


Here is a link to the Community & Forum Guidelines (http://wiki.machinistsnetwork.com/community/forum-usage/community-forum-guidelines/) article on the Network Wiki (http://wiki.machinistsnetwork.com/).
The "Please Do, Please Donít" section is a good starting point.

.Me

Neale
10-06-2016, 11:08 PM
I'm currently going through the Win7/Win10 debate with myself at the moment, and I could do with some clarification of one or two of the points raised here. I haven't sold my soul to Microsoft out of any kind of religious belief - I'm currently using LinuxCNC for my router - but the new machine will use a CSMIO external motion controller for various technical reasons which aren't relevant here. However, that means Mach3 or Mach4 (I'm going Mach3, but again that's not relevant here) and that in turns means Windows. Obviously, I'm going to be free of any 32-bit parallel port issues, so it's Win7/64 (which I already have on my garage PC dual-booting with the LCNC system) or upgrade to Win10. I have heard two issues mentioned which seem to be particularly relevant.

1. Win10 will go off by itself and download and install upgrades. Is this true? What if you disconnect the network connection to the outside world? Will Win10 sit and sulk and refuse to play, or will it carry on running and defer any updates until the network reappears? Is this a way around the "it might stop and restart all by itself" problem for a machine running a router? I've only just (earlier today) upgraded my first PC, a laptop, to Win10 so I have no direct experience of this.

2. Win10 might install updates which either break existing software, are themselves broken and hence can disable the machine, or are incompatible with older hardware. Or hardware that Microsoft decides that it doesn't like any more, however you wish to look at it. My garage PC is one I rebuilt recently with a fairly new AMD-based motherboard and a cheap but big-name graphics card, which are probably the most relevant bits to become obsolete. However, they are new enough that it seems unlikely that this will happen within a reasonable estimate of the hardware lifetime anyway. Before retirement, I spent the best part of 40 years in the IT industry, and I am aware that big customers were paranoid about the possibility of their applications breaking after an OS or application software update. However, as a home user, I can't remember this happening. OK, a new OS might break an application, but that's not quite the same thing. If I ran a business that was critically dependent on 24/7 system availability, I might take a different view but as a home/hobby user, how likely is this to happen? As a small business, should I worry that much, or just keep my production machine isolated? One of the main reasons why I like to run the latest version of any OS and keep it updated is that my speciality used to be around IT security, and one general recommendation for any system connected to anywhere else was to keep it updated with at least security updates; the feeling was that as soon as a fix was published, someone was going to reverse engineer it to create exploit code, so you needed the fix to try to stay on top of things.

I look forward to comments for and against, but please, with reasoned arguments to support the position :smile:

Ger21
10-06-2016, 11:31 PM
1) Not sure about regular Windows 10, but you have two options in Windows 10 Pro.
a) You can specify your network connection as "metered", and Windows won't download updates while connected to a metered connection.
b) You can "defer" updates in Windows 10 Pro. http://www.computerworld.com/article/3005569/microsoft-windows/how-to-defer-upgrades-and-updates-in-windows-10-pro.html

2) Isn't this true of any version of Windows?
I'm running Windows 7 Pro at work, and I can't update unless I want to spend $2500 for a new plotter that works with Windows 10.
Does anyone seriously think that microsoft will come out with an update that makes hardware obsolete? Keep in mind that the vast majority of Windows users run pretty low spec machines.
I have a few 10 year old software programs that work fine in Windows 10. If you want to run programs older than that, than you may want to hang on to your copy of XP.

magicniner
11-06-2016, 12:35 AM
Microsoft have announced that future Intel processors will not support anything older than Windows 10.
They also pushed W10 out as a "recommended" update so that thousands of people who don't want it.
I wouldn't put anything past a set of utter shysters like that, they're as bad or worse liars and thieves than politicians.

Boyan Silyavski
11-06-2016, 12:58 AM
Its a fact that w8 is faster than w7, and win10 is faster than w8. Yeas, i play games when i am tired of forums, machines, projects, etc..and know it for a fact from my experience with graphic heavy games.

But there was nothing wrong with win7, i would say it was perfect. It's the windows that convinced me to stay with windows. Still have it on 2 pcs in the workshop. You know- mach3 serial port driver - win 32bit ....

The w7, 8 and 10 are very stable and if one doesn't mess with pirated software and has ADBLOCk Plus on his browser, there is nothing to do months and years.

Ger21
11-06-2016, 02:46 AM
Microsoft have announced that future Intel processors will not support anything older than Windows 10.


First, I'm not sure why one company would give press releases on another companies products.
Second, why would they. Companies don't make new products to be compatible with old technology, unless that's there specific market.

Go play with your Linux box and stop whining about Windows, since you obviously have an agenda.



The w7, 8 and 10 are very stable

There's really very little difference between them. Except that Microsoft screwed up the interface in 8, but you could fix it in 5 minutes, if you wanted to. I've been running 8.1 for 18 months, and have zero problems with it. I was hesitant to update to 10, until I got a new laptop with 10. It's almost the same as 8, but yes, it's faster.

cropwell
11-06-2016, 10:42 AM
I have a computer dedicated to evaluating Win 10 and it is for nothing else. My workhorse is Win 7 64bit and I have GWX installed to try and keep it W10 free. I certainly do not want to be sucked into Microshafts leased software business plan AND cloud based computing means you have to pay for internet access over and above your home broadband or free Wifi venues. No Ta !!!
18615

When my Win10 machine stops updating every time I switch it on, I may be able to reach a verdict on the OS, but until then I am keeping my reactionary bias to myself (?).

In the meantime my CNC PC (and any future ones) will remain on a stripped down XP (no internet gateway and no unnecessary software).

Please chaps, keep a little dignity on the forum!

magicniner
11-06-2016, 10:47 AM
First, I'm not sure why one company would give press releases on another companies products.


http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/microsoft-processor-support-policy,news-52211.html

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/16/10780876/microsoft-windows-support-policy-new-processors-skylake

If you read you will find that what Microsoft have taken the decision to do is force early obsolescence on their older operating systems within their stated support life by ensuring the processors in new PCs will not run them.
It's not referred to in the industry as a Wintel platform for nothing, they might not be married but they are definitely in bed ;-)

Comparing a new version of Windows on a new laptop to an old version of Windows one on an old laptop is like comparing a new fuel in a new car to an old fuel in an old one, meaningless, of course something in newer faster hardware will be faster!

- Nick

Mach3 on W7 BTW, no cigar! ;-)

Ger21
11-06-2016, 12:50 PM
If you read you will find that what Microsoft have taken the decision to do is force early obsolescence on their older operating systems within their stated support life by ensuring the processors in new PCs will not run them.
What percentage of PC buyers intend on running an older OS on their new PC? I'd think that it's much less than 1%.


Comparing a new version of Windows on a new laptop to an old version of Windows one on an old laptop is like comparing a new fuel in a new car to an old fuel in an old one, meaningless, of course something in newer faster hardware will be faster!

Except that I'm comparing an $800 laptop running 10, to a $3000 desktop running 8.1.


Mach3 on W7 BTW, no cigar! ;-)

I would say that most new Mach3 users in the last 3-5 years are running 7, and a lot are now running Mach3 on 10.

magicniner
11-06-2016, 03:00 PM
Microsoft state

A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (“OEM”) support period.

;-)