Denford Triac Spindle control / ATC

[RocketBoy]

Evening all,

Really need some advice and help on how and what I need to control the spindle on my new Triac with MACH3. The machine as received is completely stripped of all electronics except for the spindle motor (SEM MT30U4-36) and drive card (Sprint 1200). So far I have managed to wire up the spindle motor and drive board and control it via a 10k pot and verify all works OK (Phew).

The Mill also has an ATC unit that I will add to the conversion later on. What I'm trying to understand is how to control the spindle for the ATC alignment.

My other question is could this setup be used for ridged tapping? I read somewhere that you would need to convert the spindle to an axis via software so the Z and spindle movements can be synchronised.

The spindle motor has a Taco built in, can MACH use this for position or would I need to make a separate encoder disk with a slot and sensor?

Lastly what BOB would people recommend, I would need this to control the spindle and ATC plus limit switches etc or would a PLC be better for the ATC??

Lots of questions I know, if anyone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

Cheers

Mike

[andy_con]

you need to use a spindle v4 board to connect BOB to sprint drive card.

machine cant be used for ridged tapping, threadmilling is your friend

I used a separate encoder for rpm feedback into mach, was about a fiver and works a treat.

I'm running a pmdx126 for my triac, v4 spindle board, pmdx-104 for atc and Ethernet smooth stepper


Evening all,

Really need some advice and help on how and what I need to control the spindle on my new Triac with MACH3. The machine as received is completely stripped of all electronics except for the spindle motor (SEM MT30U4-36) and drive card (Sprint 1200). So far I have managed to wire up the spindle motor and drive board and control it via a 10k pot and verify all works OK (Phew).

The Mill also has an ATC unit that I will add to the conversion later on. What I'm trying to understand is how to control the spindle for the ATC alignment.

My other question is could this setup be used for ridged tapping? I read somewhere that you would need to convert the spindle to an axis via software so the Z and spindle movements can be synchronised.

The spindle motor has a Taco built in, can MACH use this for position or would I need to make a separate encoder disk with a slot and sensor?

Lastly what BOB would people recommend, I would need this to control the spindle and ATC plus limit switches etc or would a PLC be better for the ATC??

Lots of questions I know, if anyone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

Cheers

Mike

[dodgygeeza]

The sprint speed controller is not isolated, is the V4 isolated? if not i think you will find out that this can damage things.

[andy_con]

I'm using v4 board in my triac and microrouter both have sprint drive cards and I don't have any issues


The sprint speed controller is not isolated, is the V4 isolated? if not i think you will find out that this can damage things.

[dodgygeeza]

I'm using v4 board in my triac and microrouter both have sprint drive cards and I don't have any issues
Then the V4 card must be isolating it then.
otherwise you would have 230V ac going onto the input of the V4 card.

[andy_con]

i think the description is pretty clear

http://diycnc.co.uk/cnc-boards-v5-spindle-board/

Fully Opto isolated inputs for live motor controller circuits

[dodgygeeza]

Ok, this is the V5. I used the V4 a long time ago and this did not have isolation built in. But im not sure that they upgraded this though.

[andy_con]

both my denford machines with sprint drive cards use the v4 board

[John S]

We helped introduce and develop this board when Roy ran the company.
It was done for the Sieg X3 machines that had mains voltage on the spindle side of the board.
The original board was the V3, later to become the V4 that had an optional 2 relays fitted.

All these boards are isolated by means of a DC to DC converter.
The manual for the V4 is still on the web.

www.diycnc.co.uk/forms/spindleV4.pdf

One thing to note:

On the V4 Roy made a bad choice when he chose the DC to DC converter in that he chose one with a low amperage. This showed itself when we built a control box that was 6' away from the machine for a disabled user and speed just didn't work.
We found out that if the DC to DC unit was replaced with a higher amperage the problem went away. Ironically the 2 amp unit was cheaper than the 1 amp unit.

This was reported to Roy but ignored.
Together with some other problems it's one reason we stopped buying his boards.

[RocketBoy]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the advice so far. I'm poor in money and time so I'm going to have to break this down into smaller chunks. So I'll concentrate on the spindle drive and control and get a V5 card. Can you tell me what you used for the spindle encoder, did you buy this or make it? Any pictures you could send me please?

I do have a few more questions regarding the spindle, I've watched a few videos on YouTube of the ATC mechanism working. it looks like the spindle is positioned and locked in place, is there a mechanism within the motor spindle assembly that clicks in to do this? Or is aligned with the slot on the encoder and then motor braking is applied?

Do I need to have any more inputs to the Sprint card such as breaking and the Taco? Lastly I have a temperature sensor wired in the spindle motor, does this do anything, do I need to use it?

Cheers

Mike

[andy_con]

spindle encoder? do you mean rpm feedback into mach?

the spindle doesn't affect the atc in any way. the z needs to be at the correct height so the atc disk can collect the tool, that's it.

I don't use any temp sensors


Hi Andy,

Thanks for the advice so far. I'm poor in money and time so I'm going to have to break this down into smaller chunks. So I'll concentrate on the spindle drive and control and get a V5 card. Can you tell me what you used for the spindle encoder, did you buy this or make it? Any pictures you could send me please?

I do have a few more questions regarding the spindle, I've watched a few videos on YouTube of the ATC mechanism working. it looks like the spindle is positioned and locked in place, is there a mechanism within the motor spindle assembly that clicks in to do this? Or is aligned with the slot on the encoder and then motor braking is applied?

Do I need to have any more inputs to the Sprint card such as breaking and the Taco? Lastly I have a temperature sensor wired in the spindle motor, does this do anything, do I need to use it?

Cheers

Mike

[Chaz]

spindle encoder? do you mean rpm feedback into mach?

the spindle doesn't affect the atc in any way. the z needs to be at the correct height so the atc disk can collect the tool, that's it.

I don't use any temp sensors

Ive done a Denford Triac mod to a CS Labs unit. I can help answer a few questions.

1. The spindle drive needs to be isolated. A new sprint 1220i drive is around £250.
2. The ATC needs that Z is set roughly at Z + 30 from home. This is set for me via my macro for M6 in Mach 3.

[andy_con]

You do not need a new sprint card, ignore that advice. You just need to use a v4 or v5 board, they work perfectly

[RocketBoy]

Gents,

Been away for a while, just catching up now. Thanks for all the input been very useful, especially Andy. Think I have enough to be getting on with now, sure I will have more questions down the line.

Mike

[rrossetti]

hi
im rob i now own diycnc
im always open to sugestions to improving products
cheers rob

[Tommy]

Evening all,

Really need some advice and help on how and what I need to control the spindle on my new Triac with MACH3. The machine as received is completely stripped of all electronics except for the spindle motor (SEM MT30U4-36) and drive card (Sprint 1200). So far I have managed to wire up the spindle motor and drive board and control it via a 10k pot and verify all works OK (Phew).

The Mill also has an ATC unit that I will add to the conversion later on. What I'm trying to understand is how to control the spindle for the ATC alignment.

My other question is could this setup be used for ridged tapping? I read somewhere that you would need to convert the spindle to an axis via software so the Z and spindle movements can be synchronised.

The spindle motor has a Taco built in, can MACH use this for position or would I need to make a separate encoder disk with a slot and sensor?

Lastly what BOB would people recommend, I would need this to control the spindle and ATC plus limit switches etc or would a PLC be better for the ATC??

Lots of questions I know, if anyone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

Cheers

Mike

Hi, Do you still have the motion control card (electronics) you stripped off the machine. Precisely, I need a working “baldor D281 motion control card for a Triac P. C. (denford), red 7-segment LED display type". The firmware is ESMINT 3.28 V1.6H/S - JD5. Cheers.

[Benja]

is it still possible to buy the v4/5 spindle boards? DIY cnc seems to have disappeared.

[Lieutenant Swarf]

is it still possible to buy the v4/5 spindle boards? DIY cnc seems to have disappeared.

Hi
I also need to replace the V4 board in Denford triac Mach 3 conversion. I contacted Roy formerly of diycnc who had this to say "Sorry, I sold the business back in 2015 to the guy who advertises the plasma cutters.
He sold all the boards untill the end of last year but now just concentrates on his own machines.
No spare boards, he had everthing."
I did a little googling and found this https://cnc4pc.com/motion-control/spindle-speed-control/c6-variable-speed-control-board.html Do any of the members here think it could be a replacement for the old V4s? I'm not all that hot on electronics but it superficially looks like it may be similar.

[Benja]

Looks like we both came up with the same research, it looked like it would work to me too, I did a bit of reading on it and it does seem like it would work coupled with the sprint board.
The only other possible solution I came up with was coupling the UC300 ETH 5 LPT with a cheap Opto isolated bob with analogue outputs into the sprint. its a much more expensive option but would serve 2 purposes - 1. as a motion controller and replacing the parallel port with Ethernet. and 2. As the spindle speed control board. From what ive read it would work, but i havent gone that route yet myself so do your reasearch dont take my word for it!
I'm someone will chime in and tell you a better option now ive mentioned it though.

[Lieutenant Swarf]

Hi Benja

I spoke with my learned friend AngelTech (from the Denford data forum) last night and showed him the possible replacement board. He had this to say: "first off, no that board is no good for an unisolated spindle drive like you have. There is no dc isolation on the board. It would be ok for an isolated spindle drive or an inverter."
So my new plan is to swap my brand new Sprint 1200 for the 1220i (fully isolated driver) and see if that works. I also spoke with Rob Rossini on the phone ( who was very helpful) who said he may be making some more V5 (the diycnc upgrade to the V4 boards) at some point soon.

[Benja]

Thanks for that info, I thought the C6 was isolated. Great guy Angel tech I have spoken to him recently :) Good news if Rob does, I'd like a spare. I take it he is the guy who bought the diycnc company?

[battwell]

hi
im rob i now own diycnc
im always open to sugestions to improving products
cheers rob

do you have any version 5 boards available?