eBay TB6560 Stepper Motor Driver Boards

[Mad Professor]

Good Day All.

Has anyone here got or do you know anything about the TB6560 stepper motor driver boards (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=TB6560&_sacat=See-All-Categories) that are being sold on eBay.

From the bad english in the ebay listings it looks like thease boards can run upto 36volts and upto 3amp stepper motors.

But detailed info is very limited.

I am just after your toughts on this item.

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards.

[irving2008]

Good Day All.

Has anyone here got or do you know anything about the TB6560 stepper motor driver boards (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=TB6560&_sacat=See-All-Categories) that are being sold on eBay.

From the bad english in the ebay listings it looks like thease boards can run upto 36volts and upto 3amp stepper motors.

But detailed info is very limited.

I am just after your toughts on this item.

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards.

First thing to understanmd is never believe what suppliers say the capabilities of their boards are... read the datasheet for the chips and look at the construction.

Here we have 4 TB6560 devices sharing a single force cooled heatsink approx 30mm x 80mm x 10mm. That heatsink has a thermal resistance of about 6decC/watt and with the fan thats maybe improved to 4degC/watt (the airflow is pretty restricted). So each device is effectively fixed to a heatsink of 16degC/Watt (under worst case conditions - all axis functioning) or 12degC/W for 3-axis use.

Now look at the datasheet for the TB6560. Its allowed to run the junction at 150degC max before the thermal shutdown cuts in and the thermal resistance junction to case is 1.5degC/W. So adding that to the heatsink you have (3-axis) 12.5degC/W thermal resistance. So maximum dissipation at 25degC ambient is (150 - 25)/10.5 = 10W.

The power dissipation of the chip is approx 2 x On resistance x output current^2 = 2 x 0.4 x I^2 and this is maximum 10W so rearranging

I = sqrt(10/(2 x 0.4)) = sqrt(10/0.8) = 3.5A

So on the face of this this board can run 3A/phase steppers at full output on 3-Axis, and will probably be ok on 4-axis, but its pushing close to the thermal cutoff of the chip...

[Gary]

I like this bit.

Suppliers Warranty:
We offer one month warranty on all products purchased from us. If your item has any warranty issue please contact us for a satisfying solution.

Is that from delivery or dispatch?

[Mad Professor]

I have ordered one of thease TB6560 boards back on the 27/10/2009, before I asked about them here.

I have no idea how long it is going to take to get from china to me with all the dam royal mail strikes on going.

The eBay ad says that it should only take upto 6-10 business days, but I will have to wait and see.

I went for the TB6560 over the TA8435H as it is ment to support upto 36volts, and the TA8435H can only support upto 24volts.

I am going to be using this board with my Astrosyn MY103H702 stepper motors.

I am looking at running 34volts to try and get as much speed out of the stepper motors as possible.

I will report back once I have got the board.

[Ross77]

Hi

I'm interseted to see how you get on, I've been looking at them myself but put off by the fact its all on one board and max 36v.
But £50 ish for 4 axis with opto sounds like my budget :beer:

[Mad Professor]

Well the post and been and gone today, but no sign of my parcel yet.

Oh well it looks like I will not get unto next week now.

I have been reading the so called bad english manual for the driver board to work out what DIP Switch settings I am going to need.

I am only intrested in switches 1-4.

Switches 1-2 are for the current setting, 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%.

Is this a case of 3.00amps, 2.25amps, 1.50amps, 0.70amps, or does the board self sence the current and when at idle or hold, hold the current at said % of the stepper motors max current.

Next is Switchts 3-4 for the Buffer, the manual just has, Fast, 25%, 50%, Slow, so at a guess I need to set it to Fast.

Then the last two switches 5-6 are for the step modes, this I understand.

[irving2008]

Well the post and been and gone today, but no sign of my parcel yet.

Oh well it looks like I will not get unto next week now.

I have been reading the so called bad english manual for the driver board to work out what DIP Switch settings I am going to need.

I am only intrested in switches 1-4.

Switches 1-2 are for the current setting, 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%.

Is this a case of 3.00amps, 2.25amps, 1.50amps, 0.70amps, or does the board self sence the current and when at idle or hold, hold the current at said % of the stepper motors max current.

Next is Switchts 3-4 for the Buffer, the manual just has, Fast, 25%, 50%, Slow, so at a guess I need to set it to Fast.

Then the last two switches 5-6 are for the step modes, this I understand.

If you look at the datasheet here (http://www.toshiba.com/taec/components/Datasheet/TB6560AHQ_AFG_E_2003_20080215.pdf), pages 9 and 10 you will see that switches 1-2 are the torque current settings relative to maximum current(default 100%) and switches 3-4 are the Decay Modes (default I suspect should be fast). The max current is actually set by the big resistors on the board, but its hard to tell what colour the stripes are, should be Brown, green, silver, silver which is 0.15ohm for 3.3A.

[Mad Professor]

irving2008: Thanks for your reply, I have just been hunting around the net to see if I can find better pictures.

So far all I have been about to find are thease two pictures.

http://www.savebase.com/InfoBase/MEGA-SUPPLY/PKG/001455/001455_1.jpg
http://www.savebase.com/InfoBase/MEGA-SUPPLY/PKG/001455/001455_7.jpg

To me it looks like the current sence resistors are, Brown, Brown, Silver, Gold, 0.11ohm 5%.
If that is right we are looking at 4.5A.

[Mad Professor]

Well the board has just this sec turned up.

I was worng about the current sence resistors, they are infact, Orange, Orange, Silver, Gold, 0.33ohm 5%, so thats a current limit of 1.51amps.

I have not done any testing yet, so I will report back with how I get on.

[irving2008]

Well the board has just this sec turned up.

I was worng about the current sence resistors, they are infact, Orange, Orange, Silver, Gold, 0.33ohm 5%, so thats a current limit of 1.51amps.

I have not done any testing yet, so I will report back with how I get on.
That makes little sense... probably worth measuring them. Look forward to hearing your verdict....

How long did they take to arrive in the end?

[Mad Professor]

It was ordered on the 27/10/2009, and posted on the 28/10/2009, and got here today 10/11/2009, so two weeks to the day from ordering.

[Mad Professor]

Well with not quite knowing what is going on with regards to the current sensing resistors I tought it would be best to test how much current the board is pulling.

I am using a bench PSU with a clean adjustable voltage output, the PSU shows me the set voltage and current load.

I have preset the PSU to 13.8volts.

The board by it's self with no stepper motors connected is pulling 0.20a.

Here are the reading with just one stepper motor connected, with the board set to enable and motors at idle.

DIP Switches 3-6 are set to ON.

Bipolar Parallel
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 1.23a - 0.20a = 1.03a total /2 = 0.51a per phase.
OFF/ON: 0.76a - 0.20a = 0.56a total /2 = 0.28a per phase.
ON/OFF: 0.46a - 0.20a = 0.26a total /2 = 0.13a per phase.
OFF/OFF: 0.25a - 0.20a = 0.05a total /2 = 0.02a per phase.

Bipolar Series
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 2.10a - 0.20a = 1.90a total /2 = 0.95a per phase.
OFF/ON: 2.10a - 0.20a = 1.90a total /2 = 0.95a per phase.
ON/OFF: 1.05a - 0.20a = 0.85a total /2 = 0.42a per phase.
OFF/OFF: 0.40a - 0.20a = 0.20a total /2 = 0.10a per phase.

All the readings are aprox.

Now I am even more confused then when I started. :confused:

[irving2008]

Well with not quite knowing what is going on with regards to the current sensing resistors I tought it would be best to test how much current the board is pulling.

I am using a bench PSU with a clean adjustable voltage output, the PSU shows me the set voltage and current load.

I have preset the PSU to 13.8volts.

The board by it's self with no stepper motors connected is pulling 0.20a.

Here are the reading with just one stepper motor connected, with the board set to enable and motors at idle.

DIP Switches 3-6 are set to ON.

Bipolar Parallel
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 1.23a - 0.20a = 1.03a total /2 = 0.51a per phase.
OFF/ON: 0.76a - 0.20a = 0.56a total /2 = 0.28a per phase.
ON/OFF: 0.46a - 0.20a = 0.26a total /2 = 0.13a per phase.
OFF/OFF: 0.25a - 0.20a = 0.05a total /2 = 0.02a per phase.

Bipolar Series
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 2.10a - 0.20a = 1.90a total /2 = 0.95a per phase.
OFF/ON: 2.10a - 0.20a = 1.90a total /2 = 0.95a per phase.
ON/OFF: 1.05a - 0.20a = 0.85a total /2 = 0.42a per phase.
OFF/OFF: 0.40a - 0.20a = 0.20a total /2 = 0.10a per phase.

All the readings are aprox.

Now I am even more confused then when I started. :confused:Measure the voltage across each phase... I suspect only one phase is energised when the motor is idling so your "/2" is wrong... what motors are these and what DC resistance?

At a guess I'd say your parallel and series figures are swapped. Again whats the DC resistance across A+ & A- in each mode?

Also remember that the chopper current limiting will regulate peak currents. A 1.5A nominal peak will show up as a 1.5/sqrt(2) RMS current on an analogue meter, i.e. about 1A. It doesnt make a lot of sense unless the resistance of the motors is such that the figure should have been higher on the 100% setting but would need more volts (anything higher than 5ohms would not get to the expected 3A peak - 2.2A rms - current limit on 13.8v, would need 24v)

[Mad Professor]

I am using Astrosyn MY103H702 stepper motors (http://www.astrosyn.co.uk/docs/MY103H702.pdf) <click link for datasheet.

I will do the other tests shortly.

[irving2008]

I am using Astrosyn MY103H702 stepper motors (http://www.astrosyn.co.uk/docs/MY103H702.pdf) <click link for datasheet.

I will do the other tests shortly.

Same motors I have.

I was wondering if the switches are actually adjusting the idle current when the motor is stationary and not the operating current, the data sheet isnt clear. If that was the case then the 100% setting corresponds to the RMS phase current set by the resistors which would be the RMS current shown by the ammeter

The maximum peak current this could be for these motors on 13.3v (allowing .5v for Vref) is:
Unipolar: 13.3/6.2 = 2A (which appears to be your bipolar series setting)
Bipolar Parallel 13.3/3.1 = 4A
Bipolar Series 13.3/12.4 = 1A (which appears to be your bipolar parallel setting)

Do you have a stand-alone ammeter or a 'scope?

[Mad Professor]

I have tested the voltage outputs from both phases, and they are both powered wile at idle.

Bipolar Parallel: 4.00 to 4.15volts.
Bipolar Series: 12.95 to 13.00volts.

I do have a DVM with ammeter but it is quite old so don't know how good it will be.

I also do have a PicoScope 2202 USB Oscilloscope (http://www.picotech.com/picoscope2202-specifications.html).

[irving2008]

I have tested the voltage outputs from both phases, and they are both powered wile at idle.

Bipolar Parallel: 4.00 to 4.15volts.
Bipolar Series: 12.95 to 13.00volts.

I do have a DVM with ammeter but it is quite old so don't know how good it will be.

I also do have a PicoScope 2202 USB Oscilloscope (http://www.picotech.com/picoscope2202-specifications.html).


Easiest way to verify the current is to plot the voltage across the sense resistors. If you have the latest PicoSoft 6 software it will, if I recall right, calculate the RMS and peak currents for you (I have a Pico3205 scope), or you can easily work it out...

[Mad Professor]

I am running PicoScope v6.3.4.0.

I have not had this scope long so I am still finding my way around the settings, so I am not 100% sure what you are after.

Bipolar Parallel:
True RMS Avg 120mv.
Peak to Peak Avg 1.15v

Bipolar Series:
True RMS Avg 80mv.
Peak to Peak Avg 30mv.

[irving2008]

I am running PicoScope v6.3.4.0.

I have not had this scope long so I am still finding my way around the settings, so I am not 100% sure what you are after.

Bipolar Parallel:
True RMS Avg 120mv.
Peak to Peak Avg 1.15v

Bipolar Series:
True RMS Avg 80mv.
Peak to Peak Avg 30mv.

1.15v peak over .33 ohm = 3.5A peak, RMS = .36A

80mV over .33ohm = 0.24A, but the peak looks low, sure it wasnt 300mV?

Can you post the waveforms?

[Mad Professor]

Sure I can save the waveforms, do you want them as screenshots or save the waveforms to an output file?

[irving2008]

Sure I can save the waveforms, do you want them as screenshots or save the waveforms to an output file?I usually do screen capture or print as PDF.

Attached are 3 captures from my L297/L298 board using the same motor at 500, 750 and 900 steps/sec on a 36v supply, wired bipolar parallel (coil resistance = 3.2ohm).

This shows the A-enable signal (blue) and the sense voltage (red). The sense voltage is directly proportional to the current in the coil (x 2), so .5v = 1A. At 500stesp/sec the RMS voltage is 0.64v, a current of 1.3A RMS, the peak voltage being 0.9v equivalent to 1.8A. You can see that the current doesn't start to flow (indeed its negative slightly at the start of the cycle which is due to the back emf/collapsing field of the previous cycle) until 0.7mS into the cycle, it then ramps up due to the inductance of the coils (these being high inductance motors i.e. not very fast) until it finally gets to the current limit and the driver goes into chopping.

At 750stesp/sec the RMS current has dropped to about 1A, the peak still being 1.8A. This is because the initial start-up and ramp is a greater proportion of the cycle time.

At 900steps/sec the current never gets to the set limit before the cycle ends... this is the fastest the motor will go at this voltage and the power output wil be low, the RMS current here is about 0.5A.

To go faster with these motors needs about 70v...

Setting Vref using the scope like this is much more accurate than adjusting it statically or relying on the overall current consumption.

[Mad Professor]

This board is ment to be rated upto 36vdc, So I tried using my 36vdc 10A PSU.

I set the board to it's lowest current setting on the DIP switches to make sure I did not burn out or over heat my stepper motor, I am only testing X-Axis atm.

Powered up the board, and all the lights and the fan came on, Turned it all off and, when I next turned it back on, I was greated with a nice pop / bang, with sparks, and blue / white smoke.

Part of the Z-Axis TB6560AHQ had exploded, Oh Joy.

I have since looked at some of the datasheet for the Absolute Maximum Rating.

L7812CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
L7805CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
TB6560AHQ - 40 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.

I will post a pic of the poor TB6560AHQ chip once I have uploaded it to my site.

[irving2008]

This board is ment to be rated upto 36vdc, So I tried using my 36vdc 10A PSU.

I set the board to it's lowest current setting on the DIP switches to make sure I did not burn out or over heat my stepper motor, I am only testing X-Axis atm.

Powered up the board, and all the lights and the fan came on, Turned it all off and, when I next turned it back on, I was greated with a nice pop / bang, with sparks, and blue / white smoke.

Part of the Z-Axis TB6560AHQ had exploded, Oh Joy.

I have since looked at some of the datasheet for the Absolute Maximum Rating.

L7812CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
L7805CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
TB6560AHQ - 40 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.

I will post a pic of the poor TB6560AHQ chip once I have uploaded it to my site.
Can you turn down the power supply? Mine goes down to 32 and up to 40v. it could be that back-emf from the motor had damaged the chip by spiking the supply - I'd limit that board to a 30v supply if it has regulators on-board unless they have an additional dropping zener diode in series. On my board you can see spikes of 65v on deceleration, so I have a snubber (basically a 36v zener and a low ohm resistor) across the supply. Another solution, shown in the attached schematic uses a transistor to the same effect...

[Mad Professor]

Here is a pic of what is left of the chip.

http://www.mad-professor.co.uk/Misc/Damaged%20TB6560AHQ%20Chip.jpg

My 36vdc PSU is not adjustable.

I now need to start looking at ways to limited the voltage and spikes.

I was looking at using a zener diode and Metal Oxide Varistor to deal with the spikes.

But I still have to look into it more.

[irving2008]

Thats pretty impressive... any collateral damage as far as you can tell? I'd strip the chip off the board and then retest on the 13v supply and confirm other voltages are as expected...output of regs, logic levels, etc. and compare the voltages on equivalent pins of the remaining drivers - without motors attached.

No point in replacing it if there is more damage...

Alternatively you could send it back...

[Mad Professor]

I have removed the damaged chip, and have powered it using my adjustable bench PSU, all the lights came on, no more smoke.

So it looks like only the one chip got damaged.

[Tom]

Can you turn down the power supply? Mine goes down to 32 and up to 40v. it could be that back-emf from the motor had damaged the chip by spiking the supply - I'd limit that board to a 30v supply if it has regulators on-board unless they have an additional dropping zener diode in series. On my board you can see spikes of 65v on deceleration, so I have a snubber (basically a 36v zener and a low ohm resistor) across the supply. Another solution, shown in the attached schematic uses a transistor to the same effect...

Hi Irving,

That snubber circuit is very interesting... It's just what I need. I'm running one of those 50V power supplies that Kip found in "unregulated" mode at 43V. My drivers will smoke at 50V, so I'm nervous.
Can you point me towards any online material that would help size the components to dissipate the sort of spikes I'm likely to see?

Sorry to hijack! (maybe Irving's tip will save a few more driver boards... :)

Tom

[irving2008]

Hi Irving,

That snubber circuit is very interesting... It's just what I need. I'm running one of those 50V power supplies that Kip found in "unregulated" mode at 43V. My drivers will smoke at 50V, so I'm nervous.
Can you point me towards any online material that would help size the components to dissipate the sort of spikes I'm likely to see?

Sorry to hijack! (maybe Irving's tip will save a few more driver boards... :)

Tom

Tom,

Yes, sadly I wasnt able to find an easy way to turn the volts on those down as they do some strange things with the internal reference line that doesn't follow the application note for the chip they use. I managed to blow one up quite spectacularly!

When I said zener diode I really meant a transient suppressor diode (transorb), such as these (http://www.vishay.com/docs/88316/bzw04.pdf)from Vishay. But i think clamping to 50v from a 43v supply might be tricky. A zener will clamp, but wont catch transients. you could use a 47v zener as a clamp with a 48v transorb in parallel to catch spikes, with a series low ohm resistor as a current limit between the supply rails. Farnell sell the transorbs, about 30p a go.

[Dan Brown]

Hows it going with that board then Mad professor? any joy with it yet?

I've now got exactly the same board and motors sitting on my table, i'm just waiting for my pci parallel port extension to turn up so i'm dying to find out how much money wasted/saved

[Mad Professor]

Dan Brown: I have not done any more testing since after removing the damaged chip.

I have tested that all the other axis are still working using my adjustable bench power supply, but I can only run the board / motors upto 15volts on this power supply.

But at this lower voltage my current rig is very slow, max of 200mm/min, for the very short time that the board was running at 36vdc I was closer to 450mm/min rapid move, not cutting.

I will be back to testing the current sence resistor and dip switches.

When using my scope with my bench PSU I always have to use my laptop on battery, as if the laptop on mains or a PC is used I get very strange readings on the scope software, so thats something else I have to look into.

[irving2008]

Dan Brown: I have not done any more testing since after removing the damaged chip.

I have tested that all the other axis are still working using my adjustable bench power supply, but I can only run the board / motors upto 15volts on this power supply.

But at this lower voltage my current rig is very slow, max of 200mm/min, for the very short time that the board was running at 36vdc I was closer to 450mm/min rapid move, not cutting.

I will be back to testing the current sence resistor and dip switches.

When using my scope with my bench PSU I always have to use my laptop on battery, as if the laptop on mains or a PC is used I get very strange readings on the scope software, so thats something else I have to look into.

As per my thread above, on 36v the max step rate for these motors is 900steps/sec, thats 270rpm or about 500mm/min on a 2mm pitch screw.

Sounds like you have some ground loop problems. Make sure stepper PSU and scope/PC are on same power socket so they are earth referenced together. I cant use the same PC as the scope and the driver for the stepper, for the same reason...

[Tom]

When I said zener diode I really meant a transient suppressor diode (transorb), such as these (http://www.vishay.com/docs/88316/bzw04.pdf)from Vishay. But i think clamping to 50v from a 43v supply might be tricky. A zener will clamp, but wont catch transients. you could use a 47v zener as a clamp with a 48v transorb in parallel to catch spikes, with a series low ohm resistor as a current limit between the supply rails. Farnell sell the transorbs, about 30p a go.

Thanks Irving!

That's just the right amount of info... I REALLY don't want to smoke these drivers, so I feel some internet research, followed by electrickery, coming on....
There's time because I'm not cutting in anger yet - just aligning, and debugging....

Cheers,

[Mad Professor]

Today I have been able to find some free time to do some basic current testing using my bench power supply, and USB Oscilloscope.

Using the oscilloscope across the current sence resistor I get the following results.

Bipolar Parallel
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 0.469v avg / 0.33ohm = 1.421a.
ON/OFF: 0.313v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.948a.
OFF/ON: 0.234v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.709a.
OFF/OFF: 0.078v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.236a.

[irving2008]

Today I have been able to find some free time to do some basic current testing using my bench power supply, and USB Oscilloscope.

Using the oscilloscope across the current sence resistor I get the following results.

Bipolar Parallel
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 0.469v avg / 0.33ohm = 1.421a.
ON/OFF: 0.313v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.948a.
OFF/ON: 0.234v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.709a.
OFF/OFF: 0.078v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.236a.

That looks about right... i assume by average you mean RMS, so the peak current will be around 2A. Can you post waveforms as discussed?

[RobMar]

Hi everybody, I'm just another new (and perplexed) user of the TB6560 board. (I'm from Italy, so forgive me for my bad english)
Due to lack and inaccuracy of the documentation available for the board, I've searched around and come by chance to this forum, where I've luckily found answers to some of my doubts and saved some chip-smoking (up to now...) thanks to many intrepid experts that shared their experiences. Kudos to you all.
Now, I've started to test the basic functions of the board (a blue 3-axis HYU68 from Ebay) with 3 NEMA-23 2A motors, 24V supply, just testing the basic signals on the 15-pin port (no parallel connection at this time)
The first problem I've encountered is that the pinout table shown on the manual seems to be wrong, with pins 9 to 15 reversed left to right, like if someone has correctly counted pins 1 to 8 of top row and then continued to count the numbers of second row backwards instead of going back to "new paragraph" as is customary on Cannon-type connectors. I say this because I've found the expected 5V and GND on pin 9 and 10 respectively, instead of 15 and 14 as stated in the manual. (the order of the top row 1-8 appears to be correct)
Did someone else notice this? (and also eventual other mismatches on the 25-pin parallel port?)
Thank you for any suggestion
Roberto

[CAD_Rickosz]

Yes and do not not even once go over 24V with nema23 steppers or
you can put out the frying tonight sign just like my bit of electronics did.
2091

[1113562]

Yes there is an error in the manual for the pin outs to the motors but the board silk screen is correct on my board as supplied.

My board came with a parallel cable for the PC and it seemed to all work after configuring the I/O on Mach3 to the settings that came in the chinglase manual! The problem I found was that the DIP settings for the microsteps was not correct. The 1/8 step was reversed with 1/16, a fairly minor problem but still irritating as I had a scaling error on movement until I figured it out.

I managed to buy the correct 2 mm spacing headers and crimps for the limit and eStop input on these boards if anyone is interested. I have a few spare that I can post at mininal cost.

John

[williamturner1]

do not not even once go over 24V with nema23 steppers or
you can put out the frying tonight sign just like my bit of electronics did.


Hi. Great thread! v interesting to read. Thank you guys for sharing.


My Question: Is it possible to establish the cause of the exploding chip? and how to prevent any future damage?

........1. Back EMF caused it?
..................could it be the board has insufficient protection
..................maybe additional protection should be added - as described by irving2008 in this thread

........2. Something fries when a PSU of >24v is used?

or some other reason?

Surely too higher voltage from the PSU would have damaged the chip there and then?
Does the delay in chip exploding (ie when next turned on) hint at back emf damaging it during motor rundown or at the end of last run and that damage only apparent when you next turned the device on and it exploded?

PS. Anyone in the M25 with a CNC set up that I can come around and admire / ask a few questions about their implementation of driver board vs software and motors? Im a newbie starting out. I'll happily pay you for your time in beer!

[1113562]

I don't really understand this as the actual Toshiba TB6560 chips have an absolute max VmA and VmB voltage rating of 40 volts and the operating rage is up to 34 V. Since it was the chip that blew and not something else on the board then I can see it was a pure over voltage problem providing your PSU was putting out less than 40V but preferrably less than 34 V. The Chinese data sheet for the whole circuit board states a voltage range of 16 to 24V for NEMA 23 spec steppers and 24 to 36V for NEMA 34 steppers. I don't really understand why there is a difference in voltage stated for NEMA 23 and 34 providing the current limit DIP switches are set so as not to exceed the particular Stepper motor current per phase for your wiring configuration (series or parallel). The power supply voltage selected just defines how quick the current limit value is reached for each pulse as it is driving an inductive load.

The when the current pulse is turned off the inductance of the winding tries to maintain current flow so generates a large reverse voltage. The protection diodes are there to clip this reverse voltage and absorb the current from the motor in discharging the winding inductance.

The larger your winding inductance the slower it will be before the current limit is reached when applying a pulse causing reduced speed and torque and also causes a bigger turn off reverse current as the inductance stores energy.

A good fast stepper will have low inductance and series resistance.

What is you stepper motor specifications Resistance, Current rating and Inductance in the wiring configuration you are using?

[williamturner1]

The when the current pulse is turned off the inductance of the winding tries to maintain current flow so generates a large reverse voltage. The protection diodes are there to clip this reverse voltage and absorb the current from the motor in discharging the winding inductance.
So is it that Mr ChinaMan's circuit doesn't provide enough protection be it through poor design or poor component choice

[Gary]

There is a posibility that the chips are not actually Toshiba, but cheap copies?
This is quite common in china.

[1113562]

There is a posibility that the chips are not actually Toshiba, but cheap copies?
This is quite common in china.

The board I have seems to have the genuine Toshiba AHQ spec chips fitted. Either that or they have gone to a lot of trouble forging the TOSHIBA markings and logo.

[1113562]

So is it that Mr ChinaMan's circuit doesn't provide enough protection be it through poor design or poor component choice

The H bridge in the chip itself is designed to discharge the inductance but the board has external diodes as well as protection. I cant see that the problem is the enternal diodes fitted to the board. You could measure to see if the board diodes on the blown chip motor output pins are damaged, If they are not then this implies these were not the reason for the failure of the chip. The diodes are FR307 which are 3A fast recovery diodes. These are rated at 1000V VR witha 200A surge and a 1.3V Vf and can withstand an average of 3 Amps continuously.

Hope this helps

[Gary]

Printing the toshiba logo on the chip is the easy part.
Fake IC's in china have been going on for years, they even copy memory chips, and brand them so they can sell them for more.
These fake chips have even made it into branded TV's and computer equipment.


The board I have seems to have the genuine Toshiba AHQ spec chips fitted. Either that or they have gone to a lot of trouble forging the TOSHIBA markings and logo.

[1113562]

Printing the toshiba logo on the chip is the easy part.
Fake IC's in china have been going on for years, they even copy memory chips, and brand them so they can sell them for more.
These fake chips have even made it into branded TV's and computer equipment.

Gary, I think you are getting a bit carried away here. I can't see that there is enough world market sales in specialist stepper motor driver chips like the TB6560 to make it worth there while doing a replica. Faking memory chips and consumer IC's as you identify maybe.

Anyway my Chinese driver with TB6560's works fine. The only criticism is the slightly inadequate heat sink and fan assembly but thats quite easy to upgrade and will only bother those working at full power for long periods.

[cleansurf2]

Another Newbie,

I am looking at using this board as a hotwire cutter for RC aircraft wings (4 Axis).

1. Does this board need any other driver boards ? (i.e. Direct connect computer to printer port, stepper motors direct connect).

2. Is there an updated manual with correct pinouts as you guys have discovered ?

Much appreciate any advice.
Rick

[1113562]

Another Newbie,

I am looking at using this board as a hotwire cutter for RC aircraft wings (4 Axis).

1. Does this board need any other driver boards ? (i.e. Direct connect computer to printer port, stepper motors direct connect).

The driver board needs no other parts other than a DC Power Supply. Mine came with a Parallel port cable to connect to the PC printer port and came with the connectors for the stepper motors which allow you to connect directly (they have screw terminals in the connectors - quite neat). The DC Power supply to drive the board and steppers needs to be of the correct voltage and current rating. I have a FARNELL B30/10 PSU which is variable 0-30V with a current output of 10 Amps max continuous ..... ideal for this board. If you have to wire in HOME/Estop and End Stop safety switches you will need to seperately purchase a small header socket and crimps to fit the tiny 2 mm pitch PCB header for these interfaces. These are available from RS - I can advise part numbers assuming it is the same as my board.


2. Is there an updated manual with correct pinouts as you guys have discovered ?


The board I have is a 3 Axis plus spindle start/stop relay but I believe there is a 4 axis version. The manual for the 4 axis may be correct for pin-out and DIP switch settings.

As you may have read, the silk screen notation on the printed circuit board is correct so if your manual that comes with the board does not line up with the PCB artwork then you should ask questions (on this forum perhaps) before you connect and power up.

John

[cleansurf2]

I've received my TB6560 and started bench testing for a 4 axis hotwire configuration. Looking at using Mach3 + Profili2 for the G-code.
I'm using Axis X, Y, Z, A, running Mach3 v3.042.
Problem is that two of the axis are really slow. I have swapped around the motors to prove there OK. So the problem is likely Mach3 config.
Mach3 was more complex than I expected, so far can't find the configuration problem (I''m an electronics Tech).

Anyone offer any advice or a config file to help out.

thanks
Rick

[2e0poz]

Rick

By default the manual that comes with these boards show Mach3 setup with simple pics. Anything outside this should be the screw size/ pulley size setup details and motor details. I use EMC2 so can not comment where to set that up in M3. Give that area look first?

[irving2008]

I've received my TB6560 and started bench testing for a 4 axis hotwire configuration. Looking at using Mach3 + Profili2 for the G-code.
I'm using Axis X, Y, Z, A, running Mach3 v3.042.
Problem is that two of the axis are really slow. I have swapped around the motors to prove there OK. So the problem is likely Mach3 config.
Mach3 was more complex than I expected, so far can't find the configuration problem (I''m an electronics Tech).

Anyone offer any advice or a config file to help out.

thanks
Rick

Rick,

Define 'slow' .. do you mean they dont rotate at the same speed as the other channels with the same settings? I assume you've been through the 'motor tuning' process in the Mach3 tutorial?

[cleansurf2]

I have included the TB6560 Mach3 configuration file that came with my 4 axis board.

Purely bench testing at the moment, board and motors only on the bench.
While in Mach3, when I tab to get the manual controls, 2 axis are at least 100 times slower than the other channels. All the Mach3 motor tuning is set the same.

My board came from a seller that does a video of your board (as waranty proof) before he sends it out. I got the steppers from him also. It showed all 4 of my stepper motors on my board operating at the same revs.
One of his other videos walks me through basic setup, which I have followed. But essentially the config file loads up and I should be good to go, at least for bench testing motor spin.

He did mention, often DB25 cable configuration is a problem. I measured it out, all good, pin 1 to pin 1 etc, is correct. He also mentioned computer bios, will try and get time tonight to have a look. But as I can get 2 channels to operate fine, even when I swap motors around, I don't believe it to be a PC bios problem.

Still a confused newbie, sorry to be a pain guys. :eek:

[irving2008]

are you sure the DIP switches on the board are set the same for all channels, no unexpected microstepping?

On the channels that run slow, are they running cleanly, no graunching noises, or fits n spurts? What pulse width do you have set on Mach3.. it should be 5 or more...

[Jonathan]

I've just loaded your attached profile.
All the velocity / steps / acceleration settings are the same so I can't really see what might be causing it.

Are the slow motors missing steps? Try sending a slow motor one turn forwards then one back and check it returns to the same point. It might be that the driver board is 'missing' lots of the pulses making the motors go slow.

Try going to config->motor tuning and putting the velocity setting up for the slow motors and see if it makes a difference.

[2e0poz]

Just a thought can you check the setup of the parallel port in the bios and try ecp/ epp etc in turn. This was an issue for me on the first incarnation of this board.

[Jonathan]

What pulse width do you have set on Mach3.. it should be 5 or more...

He's got them all set to 2.

[John S]

5 is a good figure to start at.
Not familiar with that board but can you jumper the charge pump off, if it has one. Some computerers can hickup on charge pumps depending if they buffer the charge pump signal.

[cleansurf2]

Awsome feedback, thanks Gents.

Where I'm at at the moment. Just set up my gear on a second PC to do a quick check.
Good results, all working at the same speed now, so proved a BIOS or hardware problem on my CNC PC.
Will check the BIOS config on this, my home internet PC, which has the TB6560 board pluged in, and compare it to my CNC PC.
Will post details of the BIOS settings to help others that may encounter this problem.


I do have some minor "graunching noises, or fits n spurts" on Z axis. Swapped over motors, motor OK, definately the channel.
I adjusted pulse width to 5 (which was maximum) in config/motor tunning/Step pulse (0-5us), nil effect, still some minor graunching.
IS THAT THE PULSE WIDTH ADJUST YOU SEGESTED?

thanks
Rick

[cleansurf2]

I checked both my PC BIOS's.
My internet PC (that all axis's worked on). BIOS parallel port setting was [ECP].

My CNC PC was set to [SPP]. I changed it to [ECP]. Good results, well, better.
Now had axis Y and 4 motors turn for a split second and stop (when using manual jog [tab key window]).
Played around for a while, changed dip switch setting on one problem axis for speed, no effect.
Set to 35Khz, my Mach3 original setting was 25khz. nil effect.

I changed the manual jog speed settings from 100% down to 60%, SUCCESS!
Still not real sure why, I am guessing I had exceeded some speed capability somewhere.
loaded a G code (road runner), looked to be working fine (bench test motors only).

Comfortable to start working on my hotwire CNC rig now.
But I can see that the software configuration is where it's going to cost me the time. Mach3 seems bigger than Ben Her at the moment.
Still have to tune it all in once I build my hardware.
Still have to work out how to interface it with Profili2 (RC foam wings / G-code).

Thanks heaps for your input guys.
I will try and add some newbie tips as I plod along discovering issues that may seem a little basic to you guys.
Appreciate any and all advice/comments.

cheers
Rick

[Jonathan]

Yes that's the right pulse width setting you changed.

Have you tried experimenting with the max velocity values in that same config? If the motors will only manage 60% then set the value to 60% of what it is now - but experiment you might get more!

[cleansurf2]

I will have to probably go that way, adjusting max velocity to what ever it can handle. There is a lot of tweaking I will probably have to do between now and an operating CNC machine. Steep learning curve! At the moment having trouble getting time to put into the project, so I expect to progress slowly at this stage.

I will post significant newbie issues I discover along the way (problems/fixes).
No dought I will be back to pick your brains at some stage with some lame question.

Thanks to all.
Rick

[2e0poz]

I used my board with 12mm lead screws on nema23 motors with EMC2. The max velocity would not go beyond 40-50 on the X and Y. The Z was a lot less. If that helps at i don't know

[cleansurf2]

Final drive speed is a concern for a 4 axis hotwire foam cutter. It needs to be fast enough to not excessively melt the foam.
I think I'll be OK, won't know till I've built the rig. I haven't bought the threaded rod yet. I could do the math (thread count, max rpm), I think I will just cruze along and see how it turns out. It will be like a suprise, aren't suprises fun, well hopefully!

Cheers