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Good day all.
I am looking at buying one of the chinese 2.2KW water cooled spindles with matching vfd unit.
Looking at the eBay ads it seems that the vdf unit is a Huanyang HY02D223B.
Can anyone please tell me if it is possible to connect this VFD to my computer so that Mach3 can control the spindle?
And if it is possible, how to do so?
Thanks for your time.
Best Regards.
Yes it is possible, either by configuring it for digital input which allows you to select (I think) 8 different speeds or by using the anologue speed control input and mach's PWM output which may require smoothing. I'm sure you'll find it if you look on CNC zone. I've not done it yet as I prefer to control it myself.
Here's the English-ish manual which should clarify things:
http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/invertermanual.pdf
Mr Mad,
take a read of this .
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f170/t...d-users-96380/
You will require a 0-10v speed control, your BOB may or may not have this. Thou you can a buy a spindle control board cheap enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Professor
Then it's just a case of setting VFD params and Mach3 settings.
First let me warn you that the Huanyang drives are very low quality and I've personally had trouble with them and know of others the same.
I would strongly recommend you buy the VFD in UK, also buy a torque vector drive for best performance. The torque vector drive will allow you to run the spindle at lower rpm's and still have some torque left. . . . I can run mine between 4-5K and still be usable.
I've heard that the Huanyang VFD's tend to break after a certain amount of time, or that the keypad fails. I modified the cooling on mine (well, milled a bit off the heatsink so that it's not really close to the capacitors) and it's been fine for a fairly long time. If it breaks I'll try and fix it and if still nothing but a new one ... not sure weather I'd get the same or not. Depends how long it lasts I suppose.
As Jazz says, ones with vector current control are the best, but naturally they're also more expensive. If you intend to use the spindle a lot at low speed you might be better off making a brushless motor spindle as that will have a lot more torque in that range.
I do have a Siemens 250W (and possibly 550W, shame it's not more) VFD that I don't really need... so if anyone can be bothered to interpret their manual...
Hi,
I use this VFD and control it from Mach3 using RS-485. There is a nice plugin for Mach3 to make the control and you have to set the VFD settings correct. I had no problems doing this.
Just do NOT buy from solar.jean on ebay. Jack ju´s store. For your own sake. Some people probably got a working spindle from him, but I did not. The cone for the collets was 7.5 degrees instead of 8. Meaning my tools throw 0.3mm. He spend a lot of time between each mail and saying that he would help me. And said he would pay for the return shipment and everything. Just to delay everything so that the time to complain on E-bay would be lost. And then no more answers from him. The last thing he said is that I could just use some grinding paste on a collet and turn it around in the cone to fixt the problem. But polishing away 0.2mm using a collet, is that really a good idea?
Try him if you want, I would never buy from him again. Just as a warning.
Interesting... Chip and I got spindles and VFDs from him and they've been fine. I'm sure other people on the forum have too. Maybe he changed supplier?Quote:
Originally Posted by Agwan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
VFD convertor HuanyangHy02d223b frequence convertor.
We have a VFD convertorHuanyang hy02d223bfrequence convertor, and we obtain the problem that we can drive a motot of 2,2Kw 1750 Rpm, but no pmower is driving the motor, i.e. the motor runs untill a welldefined lower frquence, but above that frequence the motor does’nt turnanymore, although we hear in the motor that the frequence ( sound in motor )amounts in function of the pot meter setting.
We thing ithas something to do with the parameter setting in the convertor, but did’ntfind the solution untill now.
The frequency isadjustable up to 400 Hz higher than 32 Hz he stops, and as he turns he has notorque.
PD01 – 0 ( instellingen vanaf VFD paneel )
PD005 - 400
PD004 - 400
PD003 - 400
PD006 - 2.5
PD007 - 1.20
PD008 - 220
PD009 – 15
PD011 – 0
PD041- 5
PD015 - 1
PD072 - 400.00
PD143 - 2
PD142 - 7
PD144 - 3000,
PD015 - 1
PD072 - 400.00
PD143 - 2
PD142 - 7
PD144 - 3000,
Has anybodysome idea about the reason of this problem ?
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15703&stc=1
This are the motor characteristics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
Jonathan,
Even after reading the manual I could'nt solve the problem. What you really mean by your first sentence of your comment, can you be somemore specific ?
I'm currently about to wire one of these inverters to a CSMIO-IP/M for spindle speed and direction control. The connection diagram for the inverter shows separate grounds for analogue and digital signals. Does anyone happen to know if these can be connected to provide a common ground? If so, I could get away with a single 4-core CY cable between control box and inverter (F/R/Speed/common ground) but otherwise I shall end up with two cables (as I only have 4-core CY and not 5-core!). Not difficult if I have to go the two-cable route but it would be a little tidier if I could get away with just one.
Neale - I think by asking you know the answer already - it' rarely a good idea to mix analogue and digital grounds. It might work, but it's not designed to.
Of course, an alternative is a RS422 interface between the controlling PC and the inverter - I'm not saying this is the best solution but it can (in my experience of dodgy earths) avoid some analogue noise, and requires only a 2-wire interface and a £3 USB device to provide digital speed and direction control.
Neal they are separate grounds but you don't need 5 core 4 cores is enough. Heres how you wire it to IP-M controller.
Starting with On/OFF. Take DCM to Pin 25 then FWD to Pin 12 or 13 depending which Output relay you want to use.
Speed Control: ACM to Pin2 on Analog Output. V1 to Pin1
It's that easy.
Cheers Dean, I'm just looking at this as I'm about to wire mine to the IP-M at last....
Thank you for that, Jazz. Yes, indeed, the wiring is that easy, and essentially that's exactly what I was going to do. The difference was that I was going to wire in the REV connection as well, hence the need for four cores. But thinking through what you wrote, I realise that in the four years I've been using it, I have never ever used "reverse" on the spindle, and I can't imagine why I ever would. Drop that, and I can happily use one piece of CY for the lot. Sometimes you can be too close to a problem!
Thanks again - I'll get that wired and tested later.
DONT DO THAT.!! . . . It's dangerous to run Collet Spindle in reverse.? Think about it for minute and will become obvious.!!
Many years ago I made a small T-slot cutter for a special job I was doing. Made a nice job of it, too - even down to the close-fitting threads on the shank to fit my Autolock collet chuck on the mill. I was just about to start the machine when I realised that I had cut the teeth for left-hand cutting, and would need to run the machine in reverse. Not a good idea with a screwed-shank cutter. Between that and the time that a 4-jaw chuck unscrewed itself from my Myford's spindle nose because I had managed to partially stop the motor then restarted it too soon and it ran backwards...
I was once given a handful of small drills "because I could probably find a use for them". Turned out to be left-hand cutting. Never seen a LH-cut router bit, though - I don't think that I need spindle reverse and I'm not sure why I ever thought of connecting it. "Because it was there", I suppose.
The wiring is going to be easy. It's decoding the inverter manual crypto-English that might be challenging when it comes to setting the parameters for external control! Still, there are plenty of posts around with guidance for that.
Well, that was fun! Couple of minutes to wire from CSMIO to socket on case. Then rather longer to work through the CSMIO manual to get the Mach3 and plugin configuration sorted. Seemed to be about 4 different config screens and tabs to find all the relevant places to configure things while remembering that "output" means something different to Mach3 and CSMIO, and that pin numbers are not necessarily output numbers. All good fun, but now the forward relay comes on when commanded from the screen and a quick check with a meter says that the PWM analogue output voltage is about right for the commanded spindle speed. In fact, with these settings, it looks as M3 or M4 will both actually switch the spindle forwards.
Now to do the equivalent with the VFD... Good luck, Neil - it's easy when you've done it once :rolleyes:
Only 2 param's need changing for external control PD01 & PD02 set both to 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neale
Just wired it up and have given up for the day, got a +10V voltage on the analogue output for the 24,000 the program was asking for but the spindle is sat there doing nothing. I've changed both PD01 and PD02 to 1 in the VFD settings, now you can't turn it on manually so must have changed that correctly!! Wired up as per your post Dean, using 2 seperate cables (didn't have any 4 core left.) My brain's fried for today :dejection::hopelessness:, I know it's to do with the difference in what CSMIO and Mach call the "outputs" and that I'm not calling it the correct thing in one or more of the screens....so...........start again tomorrow morning.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Neale
Neil IP_M works slightly odd in that you need to set the Output pin number in mach to the OUTPUT number, in this case 4 or 5 not the actual pin number on Controller ie: 12 or 13.
So first you need to enable OUTPUT #1 set port 10 and Pin to 4 or Pin5 depending if wired to terminal 12 or 13 on IP-M.
This operates the Relay Outputs so you'll get on/off with M3/M5
If your getting voltage then your setup on the analog side.
Also regards the speed if it takes ages to spin up to full speed then you may need to go into Config plugin and spindle tab then set the Spindle Acceleration/deceleration amount. I just set it to 24000rpm/s.
There is also Ramp up/down parameter in the VFD which does similair thing which is often set to 20s. So you may need to change both.
I suggest you set the VFD first to say 3-5s then if still slow to spin up change in the Plugin.
Thats it, 4 is the magic number, of course it makes sense now but after fiddling with it and doing a million.and one other things today my brain was fried.
The spindle takes about 3s to spin up to full chat, I seem to remember setting that parameter in the vfd when first setting up.
Thanks for your help Dean, will report back tomorrow morning 😊
Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
Well don't be surprised if it takes longer than 3s when under IP-M control. The IP-M also gives you option to control the rate at which it ramps the voltage.Quote:
Originally Posted by njhussey
If it does then go into Config plugin and do what said.
I'll check that out too in the morning and have a play, cheers Dean!Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
What's a good value for the spin-up time for a typical 2.2KW water-cooled spindle? My VFD is still set to the factory default for ramp-up and I've only recently realised that this is a user-configurable value (in both VFD and IP-M settings).
Thanks,
I guess it depends on how quick you want to start cutting? I've got mine set to about 3 seconds to 24,000 rpm. I seem to remember going through the sticky thread on here when setting up my VFD with the suggested settings so I guess its set at 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neale
Dean, thanks 4 was the magic number and all is working well!!
Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
Hi.
I add this link to the conversation.
http://www.hy-electrical.com/download3.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OszQS_BQMk
I have heard say that the VFD's for the water cooled spindles are able to go to a higher frequency output.
Also a link to Peter Hommans site, His Digispeed unit for Mach3 is cute. Basically he has good stuff. He is also the Gecko dist for Australia
http://www.homanndesigns.com/index.p...products_id=38
Regards
Paul
@Jazzcnc
Were you the chap that did the vid on the AC servo setup for mach3??
If so, do you have any information on your setup available?
Regards
Paul
( please excuse for going off topic for this thread)
3-4s is about right I find. If you set too low then you'll get VFD tripping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neale
The Spin setting in IP-M is only in the later Plug-in's/firmware so if still using Old Firmware worth updating.
Yes that was me. What would you like to know.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Thanx for the reply
The short answer is "everything".
I assume from the vid that you did a position setup. I would also be interested in the possibility of understanding torque setup for that driver.
Given that I have little to no experience with ac servos, I will be grateful for any info. wire diagram, pid settings, emf noise considerations.
Paul
Everything!! . . . Greedy Man. . .LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Paul3112
Ok well the video shows them running in Velocity mode not position. This is set in the drive. The controller is +/-10v Analog so position Mode isn't an option. Only Torque and Velocity with +/-10v. The Controller takes care of Position.
If was using Step/Dir controller then would use Position mode. (Can't use Velocity or Torque mode with Step/Dir only Position)
The drive as 3 modes Velocity,position,torque and can be setup so can change between them if required. This is done using Inputs on the drive. However not something you'd use on CNC machine more for automated machinery etc when only the drive is controlling position. With CNC and Analog controller you need to tune the position controller to the mode your using.
Not used in Torque mode but Velocity or torque mode is choice and will to some degree depend on application. Mills/lathe may use Torque mode for higher holding force underload and larger routers which require higher positional speeds velocity mode. However If properly sized drive/Motor then there will be very little difference between them.
Regards PID tuning etc then it's pointless because PID tuning unique to each machine so what works for me 99.9% won't work for you.
Wiring diagram again will depend on your machine and setup. Bascily how safe you want it.
Can't or won't publicly help on this because such dangerous thing and so easily missunderstood by less experienced users won't take the risk showing. If want help contact me via PM at time required ie: you have drives etc or know exactly what using and I'll gladly help.
With servos then extra care must be taken on safety because when things go wrong they go wrong BIG TIME. Unlike steppers Servo's don't stall when hit something they just Seek and Destroy.!!
Like wise if lose contact with controller or Encoder they are like Angry Wasps and can take off at full chat looking to Sting what evers in there way until they Die.!!
Ok well maybe thats bit extreme because the drives do have some protect and will fault if lose contact with encoder etc but still safety is far more important with servos. And they can under some circumstances just take off so more and Bigger Oh Shite buttons required.
EMF is one of those Circumstances that can make Servo's take off and the drive's protections know nothing about it untill all over.?
Noisy signal lines or interference from outside source will affect servos in more dangerous way than do steppers.
If low or mild EMF it will just affect performance, ie Jitter lost positon, etc. If bad then it will be just like you've told Axis to drive to some random point in outer space at full speed.!
So Good EMF protection is very imporant. Line filters, Quality Cabels etc are Must with servos. Signal Voltage is also important. 5V doesn't cut it with servo's 24v is must really for good stable machine.
Hope this helps. (start another thread if want to know more)
Cheers. I will PM you and then a new thread
Sorry again for going off topic on this thread
Paul