Upgrading a MAKKO M850 cnc machine ?

Hello All
I've got a makko 850 cnc machine with acme thread screws and was wondering if upgrading/changing to ball screws would make a worthwhile improvement. The machine has currently 16x4mm acme screws. the x travel is 800 mm Y travel 540 mm Z travel 125 mm. The power supply will supply 4 amps per stepper phase on x and y and 2 amps per phase on the z axis. I`ve bought two Leadshine em705 drivers for the x and y motors not yet fitted (the ones supplied with the machine were leadshine m542 (7+ years old) the power supply is 40 volts (300va) I'm doing woodworking (guitar making ) with the machine, learning by doing!! Any tips on improving the machine would be eagerly accepted. I'm using uccnc uc100 which was a great investment as the machine was virtually unusable with the original software supplied French partially translated into other languages (if you get my drift) I think Alan Turing would have had trouble figuring out the software as it was. Looking forward to any advice on whether it's worth upgrading the screws or any other part. The machine has not had much use but i'm slowly getting used to to it and my fear factor has reduced a lot in the last months with all the information on this site.
Cheers

Andrew

Whilst I cant prove it without delving into some specs of the screws however Acme is not exactly accurate. We used them for 3d printers, they are OK to move things from rotary to linear but its nowhere nearly as good as a proper ballscrew.

Sure, there are better nuts available (delrin etc) but it simply cant be as good, surely? I would have guessed (and its a guess) that the tolerance difference must be large between acme and ballscrew.

I did a quick Google search for this machine and it looks as if the current version uses ballscrews, according to a French web site. I'm sure that ballscrews will be better than trapezoidal/acme - could make the machine faster, less load on motors, more accurate (less backlash). However, this does depend on the structure of the machine being able to take the increased loads without bending or twisting.

It looks as if the machine normally comes with a Kress spindle which might also limit performance. Another forum member (Cropwell) has recently improved his machine by adding an extra spindle mounting block.

The Leadshine drivers should be good, and if you wanted, you could then go to a 50V or 55V power supply for a little bit of extra performance, although again that depends on whether the machine structure will take the load.

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Originally Posted by Chaz

Whilst I cant prove it without delving into some specs of the screws however Acme is not exactly accurate. We used them for 3d printers, they are OK to move things from rotary to linear but its nowhere nearly as good as a proper ballscrew.

Sure, there are better nuts available (delrin etc) but it simply cant be as good, surely? I would have guessed (and its a guess) that the tolerance difference must be large between acme and ballscrew.

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Hi Chaz and all

would it make any sense to use a 20 mm ball screw or would 16 mm be stable enough also what pitch on the thread would be the best for a woodworking machine. I won't be using this for a producton machine as such. I've got a 2.2kw air cooled chinese spindle and Hitachi inverter which I also need to mount sometime. The kress motor runs ok for small parts but only goes up to 8mm cutters , hence the 2.2kw spindle. The machine frame itself seems pretty rigid. I'm in Austria so if anyone has links to good ball screw suppliers in Europe please let me know. Any information gladly accepted.
Cheers

Andrew

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Originally Posted by the great waldo

Hi Chaz and all

The machine frame itself seems pretty rigid. I'm in Austria so if anyone has links to good ball screw suppliers in Europe please let me know. Any information gladly accepted.
Cheers

Andrew

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Andrew,
Take a look https://www.damencnc.com I have used them, very helpful guys.

Phill

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Originally Posted by phill05

Andrew,
Take a look https://www.damencnc.com I have used them, very helpful guys.

Phill

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+1 from me too.

Whats your goal, aim ?
Budget ? Skills ?

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Originally Posted by hanermo2

Whats your goal, aim ?
Budget ? Skills ?

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Hi Hanermo
My goal is to make the machine work as well as possible within limits. The story of the machine (Makko 850) is that I bought it new about 10 years ago. The software that came with the machine was a very early version of Ninos (iprocam) The manual was in German (i'm English living in Austria) the program could be made to run in English but half of the interface was in French. I ran the machine a few times to see if it worked but it seemed to have a mind of it's own and the gantry crashed merrily about making horrible noise when it jammed against the machine limits. Please be aware that I am a total novice with cnc. The machine then sat in the corner of my not very big workshop being used as a spare table. The next attempt to use it was when I got win pc nc usb from Lewetz. This was a great improvement on the early ninos software with proper English translation and the machine could be reasonably controlled also with a joystick. I did not find the interface very easy to get on with as it did not update the head position realtime. The next attempt was with a usb parallel adapter from iprocam but the English translation from iprocam was hopeless and trying to set the machine parameters was a nightmare. I must say that the interface from Ninos 4 was good if I only could have got my machine to run with it. The last attempt was made with UCCNC UC100 this product was a revelation to me as it was easy to set up recognised my machine easily from a demo mach3 version that I had tried. Support from a chap called Balasz was first class prompt and efficient (in case you are wondering I don't have any thing to do with this company apart from buying the uc100 full price) But I am very happy to recommend it as a beginner in cnc machining. The machine at the moment runs but the motors get hot and when speeds are pushed up a bit there are points in the travel of the gantry where there is some vibration resonance or whatever it's called. I bought a 2.2kw air cooled Chinese spindle with a hitachi vfd (again not the worlds easiest manual to get ones head around) which will eventually be fitted. I have also bought two leadshine em705 drivers for the X Y steppers and hope fully that might help to reduce vibration noise etc, I'll fit those first to see if it makes any difference to how the machine runs. If swapping out the ball screws is not too much of a time consuming operation I will try it. I want the machine for carving guitar necks and parts and bodies and various wooden bits and pieces and maybe some pearl engraving. I don't have much spare time as i'm snowed under with guitar repairs and the machine is at home where my significant other would like me to help out with the usual building the house, decorating cutting the grass, i'm sure you get the picture. The real hard part is to figure out the cad programs, again very time intensive for an old brain. My budget is not unlimited however if something helps to improve the machine (such as the aluminium t-nut table I bought) a very useful addition. Then I am willing to spend some money. For basic guitar making accuracy to a hundredth of a millimeter is not required however nice to have. I would like to carve jazz guitar backs and tops (rough carve and finish by hand) I'm pretty good with my hands and have a reasonable workshop with a metal working lathe (hobbymat md65 Simple but works ok) I would like to finally say thanks to all the forumites who have replied and will reply in the future. This forum has a lot of practical and useful information although a little hard to find sometimes. Well there it is, you asked.
Buenas Noches

Andrew

Wow, hard work to read this. Paragraphs please?

To me, it feels like your main thing here is about the ballscrews setup. If UC100 is working, its about mechanical improvements?

Do you need the machine to cut faster? Is the problem the heat / resonance?

Perhaps get some pricing for suitable ballscrews to replace the acme ones and go from that point?

Hi Chaz.
A bit more speed would be nice and cnc is all about accuracy and repeatability I pressume? I will probably just change out the x y screws. The question is are 16mm screws rigid enough for this size machine and what would be a good thread? spacing. The acme screws I have are 16mmx4 what are the differences using a 16mm5 or 16mm 10? Would 20 mm rails be overkill. Also would it be possible to use the existing end bearings /supports and have the ends of the ballscrews machined to fit? Or go with new parts? Obviously the ballscrew bearing will have to be delivered with the screw. I won't be doing any production work but mainly wood cutting and some light work in ali and brass.
Cheers.
Andrew

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Originally Posted by the great waldo

Hi Chaz.
A bit more speed would be nice and cnc is all about accuracy and repeatability I pressume? I will probably just change out the x y screws. The question is are 16mm screws rigid enough for this size machine and what would be a good thread? spacing. The acme screws I have are 16mmx4 what are the differences using a 16mm5 or 16mm 10? Would 20 mm rails be overkill. Also would it be possible to use the existing end bearings /supports and have the ends of the ballscrews machined to fit? Or go with new parts? Obviously the ballscrew bearing will have to be delivered with the screw. I won't be doing any production work but mainly wood cutting and some light work in ali and brass.
Cheers.
Andrew

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I'm probably the wrong person to ask about 'overkill'. My own machine uses 40 size rails and 32mm ballscrews but its overkill.

I'd think for what you are doing 16mm are OK. Depending on the length, you might want to consider rotating ballnut designs (the screw doesnt spin, the nut does) which is ideal for longer lengths.

Any pics of this machine? Seeing it makes it easier to think about options.

Hi Chaz
I've tried to get some photos from the web on my phone (no luck I think i'm too old )but if you google makko m850 the new version with ball screws is on their web site with some options. My machine looks the same and they dont seem to have changed the design.
Cheers.
Andrew
I just found some photos on ebayAttachment 23209Attachment 23210[ATTACH=CONFIG]

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Originally Posted by Chaz

Wow, hard work to read this. Paragraphs please?

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Yes sorry Chaz, it had been a long day and a couple of beers at the end of it. I tried to get the 705 drivers working without much luck. There are leadshine m542 's in the control box for the x and y and a wierd driver for the z axis.
I'm going to go for a new control box all em705 's any recomendations for power supply ratings and a breakout box ?
Cheers.
Andrew