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Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Hi,
So very pleased to start this thread. After my previous thread of 'what decent milling' machine, I found a school owned Triac VMC for sale. After a massive struggle to transport the unit and buying it unseen, it was delivered this morning. The mill was sold with a few extra tools but with a fault that the OS does not boot up. On the basis that I will likely retrofit some / all of the electronics, I considered this in the purchase decision and costing.
Initial thoughts are wow, its massive. Its also fairly heavy, as we had discovered when manually unloading it. The lads had loaded it up the previous day and clearly hadnt learnt about getting an engine hoist or similar to help.
I will upload pics in a bit, but the mill looks fairly clean, little use. I could not lift the front door to see much more as its interlocked and needs power to unlock.
Not a lot of unhappyness, apart from when they left, I tried to close the garage door and could not. Fortunately a bit of an effort and the garage door was closed. There is a bit of damage on the bottom as the machine has been man handled to move it but nothing serious.
The machine has come with more tools than expected and also a semi decent looking vice. I suspect if I add up the tools and few extras, some value already.
What is also included is a lot of the documentation and also very usefully, the wiring diagram.
So, what can I see from the diagram?
Three Phase power (which I dont have), stepped down to 110V and 24V for control.
Servo X Y Z control, not stepper. If the motors are good, this might be very awesome.
The Spindle looks to be DC, running from a 0-10V Analog signal.
The ATC looks to be servo based.
So lots of servos, no steppers. This is a good thing?
So, it might be a CSLabs IP-A controller, try and use the drives, see what I get?
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/produkt-7,2-...onnectors.html
The coolant pump seems to be the only 3 phase item .... I need to see how I can sort running on an inverter or moving the power to single phase.
Thoughts / comments / discussion welcome. Will post pics in a bit as soon as they are uploaded.
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10 Attachment(s)
Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
OK, this is the ATC wiring diagram. I am assuming that its a servo on the basis that there is some encoder wiring. Would this be correct? The panasonic unit seems to be some form of geared motor.
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15571&stc=1
For the missing bits, the cover of the ATC is off but I dont think anything goes into the cover, not sure, will check when I get home.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
These look to be the XYZ drivers. Assuming that they are in working order, are they usable / decent?
http://www.irtsa.com/IMG/pdf/me1300re.pdf
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Spindle Controller is http://www.sprint-electric.com/techn...0Man-iss-h.pdf
Sprint 1200.
Any thoughts on the quality of this? Unless its faulty, will aim to reuse this.
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15573&stc=1
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Hi Chaz,
Well, looks like a good buy with some nice extras! You don't need power to open the latch, there is a discrete hole somewhere round the back where you can insert a thin rod to activate it. I can't remember exactly where and not at home at the moment to look. I think I probably looked up the latch on the web to find out about it. If I remember I'll have a look at home this evening.
As this mill uses AC servos rather than steppers I suggest that you also join and post an enquiry at the Denford site http://www.denfordata.com. They have the wiring diagrams there and you should be able to get information on the servo drives. If the problem is the PC OS not booting I'd suggest the first place to start is there, and try to see if you can use the mill as-is, if necessary with a new PC.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JohnHaine
Hi Chaz,
Well, looks like a good buy with some nice extras! You don't need power to open the latch, there is a discrete hole somewhere round the back where you can insert a thin rod to activate it. I can't remember exactly where and not at home at the moment to look. I think I probably looked up the latch on the web to find out about it. If I remember I'll have a look at home this evening.
As this mill uses AC servos rather than steppers I suggest that you also join and post an enquiry at the Denford site
http://www.denfordata.com. They have the wiring diagrams there and you should be able to get information on the servo drives. If the problem is the PC OS not booting I'd suggest the first place to start is there, and try to see if you can use the mill as-is, if necessary with a new PC.
Thanks. That will be the first attempt. An issue I have is no 3 phase at home. Is it worth buying an inverter if the items might be changed later? From what I can tell from the wiring diagram (which I have), the only thing that runs from 3 phase is the coolant motor and perhaps some of the secondary voltages from a primary fed 3 phase transformer. I need to double check however.
I wasnt aware the PC was 'standard'. Ill research about how to sort, I have a number of older motherboards / ram / CPU that will be more than good enough for this. Also got the original CDs.
This uses the Fanuc system I think? So if I draw something and create the G Code, is this where the post processors come in?
Thanks for your response.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
You could probably replace the transformer with a single phase one provided the overall rating is sensible. Or replace the whole PSU.
If it is a DC motor with the usual thyristor controller then that will probably run happily from single phase with some careful re-wiring. Actually checking the manual you referenced above it has a single phase mains connection anyway!
The coolant pump is more of a problem but its power is probably low and you can run 3 phase motors from single phase using some capacitor trickery - or use a cheap inverter - or replace the motor - or dispense with pumped coolant!
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JohnHaine
You could probably replace the transformer with a single phase one provided the overall rating is sensible. Or replace the whole PSU.
If it is a DC motor with the usual thyristor controller then that will probably run happily from single phase with some careful re-wiring. Actually checking the manual you referenced above it has a single phase mains connection anyway!
The coolant pump is more of a problem but its power is probably low and you can run 3 phase motors from single phase using some capacitor trickery - or use a cheap inverter - or replace the motor - or dispense with pumped coolant!
Yep, this might not paste well, but apart from coolant pump, nothing else uses 3 Phase.
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Control Logic |
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Controller / Driver |
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X Axis |
+/- 10V |
220V |
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IRTA 1306 |
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Y Axis |
+/- 10V |
220V |
Fuse |
IRTA 1306 |
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Z Axis |
+/- 10V |
220V |
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IRTA 1306 |
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Spindle |
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220V |
10A |
Sprint Electric 1200 |
DC Motor - 12 Amps? |
ATC Motor |
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220V |
3.15A |
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Coolant |
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415V |
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Lighting |
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12V |
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50VA |
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Monitor |
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220V |
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
This is the coolant pump. Id like to have this option if I can. Small power, so must be an option to sort this. Id like to upload the schematic (in pdf somewhere) and then link it for reference to anyone interested.
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15574&stc=1
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Excellent buy Chaz.!!
If you can fix the PC/OS then it would be worth either replacing the Transformers or buying 415V converter and keeping original.
If you replace the Controller for Mach3 system then you will need analog controller as the servos are analog not Step & direction. Also if using the IP-A then you'll need to check the Servo's have differential encoders on them and Not single ended type. If so you'll have to replace them if possible or get some sort of line converter setup.!
Change transformer for drives etc and Small 0.75Kw VFD will sort the collant pump.
That wiring diagram is going to be priceless but you've still got plenty of head scratching coming your way. Lol
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Excellent buy Chaz.!!
If you can fix the PC/OS then it would be worth either replacing the Transformers or buying 415V converter and keeping original.
If you replace the Controller for Mach3 system then you will need analog controller as the servos are analog not Step & direction. Also if using the IP-A then you'll need to check the Servo's have differential encoders on them and Not single ended type. If so you'll have to replace them if possible or get some sort of line converter setup.!
Change transformer for drives etc and Small 0.75Kw VFD will sort the collant pump.
That wiring diagram is going to be priceless but you've still got plenty of head scratching coming your way. Lol
Thanks, lots to do still. I need to take a good look on the weekend and see what I can understand. I want to get ordering and fixing but need to be careful not to piss away money.
How difficult to tell what encoders are on the servos? Would I see something from the wiring or drive or do I have to see the actual motor?
So if I do retrofit, the ideal controller here is the CS Labs IP-S ? Will this drive using the existing drives or do you think they will need to be replaced? Same question for the motors.
Thanks all!
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chaz
So if I do retrofit, the ideal controller here is the CS Labs IP-S ? Will this drive using the existing drives or do you think they will need to be replaced? Same question for the motors.
NO you need the IP-A because the servos are Analog servos and won't accept Step & Dir signals.
You will be able to re-use motors and drives. The motor manual should tell you type of encoders.! But Single ended will have 5 wires. Differential will have 8 or more wires.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
NO you need the IP-A because the servos are Analog servos and won't accept Step & Dir signals.
You will be able to re-use motors and drives. The motor manual should tell you type of encoders.! But Single ended will have 5 wires. Differential will have 8 or more wires.
Sorry, yes, meant A.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Great buy! Good luck!
I think that the pump can be wired for 2 phase 230V, as you could see on the plate
you may watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UcDM3hm0XM
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Chaz, if you need any help i can pm you my phone number for a chat about this machine. It's a pretty easy conversion to mach as everything bar the coolant pump will run on single phase and the coolant pump will run off an inverter in delta. I had the same machine here and ran it for ages before i went to a bigger mill.
ps. it looks like all the pneumatic controls are missing, unless they're in the base of the box.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
i2i
Chaz, if you need any help i can pm you my phone number for a chat about this machine.
Chaz don't mess around on here phone the man ASAP.!!
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Chaz don't mess around on here phone the man ASAP.!!
Great buy Chaz, well done. I have had several Easy/Star/Nova mills and thought the Denford quality very good. You can easily run the coolant pump from 230v single phase in delta using either an inverter or caps (caps are very easy, very cheap). I have never met or spoken to i2i, but have heard from a couple of sources that he has converted quite a lot of Denfords. Good luck with this project. G.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
i2i
Chaz, if you need any help i can pm you my phone number for a chat about this machine. It's a pretty easy conversion to mach as everything bar the coolant pump will run on single phase and the coolant pump will run off an inverter in delta. I had the same machine here and ran it for ages before i went to a bigger mill.
ps. it looks like all the pneumatic controls are missing, unless they're in the base of the box.
Many thanks. Was out at a work event last night so didn't get time to look. Checked again this morning, pneumatics clearly missing. Does anyone have any pics of what I'm looking for that's missing? I'll ask the school too, then again, that might be why it was no longer being used. The metalworking teacher left 2 years ago and the machines have stood since.
With the retrofit to Mach, what controller did you use or suggest now if looking at this?
I'll pm for your contact details. Really hope the missing part is found or not too difficult / expensive to source. It's part of the ATC?
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Great find/buy, you lucky lucky man, looking forward to seeing this one unfold.
.Me
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lee Roberts
Great find/buy, you lucky lucky man, looking forward to seeing this one unfold.
.Me
Thanks. Not sure what this is worth but considering that the smaller (I think) Denford Triacs (none VMC / ATC / Servo) with a retrofit kit seem to sell for around £3500, I am please with what I have paid and got thus far.
A bit worried about the missing pneumatic bits. Other thing that concerns me, how the heck do I move it?
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Engine hoist or pump/pallet truck, tho you could just use steel bars and roll it on those into place, will need to of you to do it safely.
.Me
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lee Roberts
Engine hoist or pump/pallet truck, tho you could just use steel bars and roll it on those into place, will need to of you to do it safely.
.Me
Ye, thanks. I almost could not close the garage door and fortunately managed to squeeze is past the machine.
I can get to most of the bits now for fixing but it will need to be moved once working - its currently literally just in the middle of a double garage, not ideal.
Ill look at a hoist, but didnt see a lifting nut on the machine although the docs show this. Does it normally come with the machine or do you need to buy this separately?
For a pallet truck, would need to find a 'gap' under the machine to lift with or am I missing something?
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Have a look at this video my friend adam did on moving a mill...
https://youtu.be/qLD5_sm93zE
Yea I noticed your garage was far to clean and tidy, time for some rearranging and much needed workshop space ?
.Me
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lee Roberts
Have a look at this video my friend adam did on moving a mill...
https://youtu.be/qLD5_sm93zE
Yea I noticed your garage was far to clean and tidy, time for some rearranging and much needed workshop space ?
.Me
Thanks. Garage is a mess actually. I think the pics paint the wrong image ;p
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3 Attachment(s)
Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
OK, up early, cant sleep. Some of many questions:-
Current plan is to use the CS Labs IP-A controller. Gary from Zapp (and JazzCNC) seem happy that this should work based on the info shared. Let's assume it does but I may have a drive or motor faulty (I cant test them at present), what do I do then? These motors / controllers look to be too pricy to replace like for like. If I get something that uses Step / Direction, I need a different controller? Also, if I am looking at 4th axis for later, how do I plan to take that into account? I dont want to buy and IP-A and S model, the costs are too high and I dont know if you can use both together.
In terms of other considerations:-
Convert to single phase. The coolant motor can be wired for this, problem solved. It looks like someone has fit a newer 24V PSU as per the pic below. Will use this for 24V logic.
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15586&stc=1
I need 110V, not for a lot though, if needed, can fit a transformer for that. There is also a 15Volt feed that comes from the 110V line to supply power for the Axis Drive Logic, I assume I need this for the retrofit?
The remaining 110V items are a mix of relays and solenoids, mainly for the pneumatics for the ATC. I am missing all the solenoids and the pneumatic ram for the left/right of the ATC. i2i (thanks very much for your time yesterday), may be able to provide the details / measurements for a replacement.
There is a board where the X Y and X axis connect, do these breakout anywhere that allows for wiring to the new controller?
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15587&stc=1
There is then the terminal strip however this doesnt seem to cover all connections, mainly power (wire 31 / 32 etc)?
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15588&stc=1
In terms of connections needed to make this work, missing anything below?
E Stop
X Y Z Axis input / feedback
X Y Z Limit Switches
Spindle input / feedback (forward and reverse)?
Spindle Enable?
Coolant stop / start
ATC controls, carousel up/down (relays), Drawbar solenoid, Door open / closed (is this used?)
Do I need air pressure / lube float / guard contact (not sure if thats the main door or something else)?
Feedrate / Spindle override?
X Y Z Overlimit (wired via estop)
Carousel switches (in, out, up, down, sensor)
Phew, anything else?
In terms of things to get:-
Controller
PSU for 110V potentially, this is currently having 400V as its input, so need to replace this with 220V input
Missing actuator for Carousel left / right
Missing Solenoids (all)
PC - have a number of older machines, will make something from the bits
Monitor, want to use the existing arm / base if possible, ideally touchscreen
Mach 4 (possible?) or Mach 3
Possible buttons for common things (Stop / Start etc)
Anything Ive missed?
Is there any easy way to test the X Y Z drives / motors considering I have no real way to power anything on the 110V rail and 15V Axis PSU?
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
I assume this is what I need for the missing solenoids?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Position-5-Way-Air-Solenoid-Valve-Kit-4V110-06-1-8-PT-DC12V-Pilot-operated-/281665139189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item41948c f1f5
110V, 5 way? If not that specific item, something similar? It looks like the previous ones were DIN rail mounted from the pics showing what might have been there before ...
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Chaz i2i offered help I strongly advise you to take him up on his offer. You can't beat someone with actual experience of the machine your converting.
While Gary and Me have plenty of experience we don't have any on what's inside that exact machine. i2i Does and will know exactly what you can keep and what can be disguarded.
He's say's it's an easy enough conversion so I suspect he knows how to connect to any existing Motion controller built into the machine so you may not have to buy one at all.!!
Do your self a favor and speak to him before doing anything.!! (If you haven't all ready.)
Edit: Regards Moving it. !hink like an egyption.!!!. . . . They moved stones the size of your house with levers and logs.!!!
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Chaz i2i offered help I strongly advise you to take him up on his offer. You can't beat someone with actual experience of the machine your converting.
While Gary and Me have plenty of experience we don't have any on what's inside that exact machine. i2i Does and will know exactly what you can keep and what can be disguarded.
He's say's it's an easy enough conversion so I suspect he knows how to connect to any existing Motion controller built into the machine so you may not have to buy one at all.!!
Do your self a favor and speak to him before doing anything.!! (If you haven't all ready.)
Edit: Regards Moving it. !hink like an egyption.!!!. . . . They moved stones the size of your house with levers and logs.!!!
I have, extensively. We had an hour long call yesterday.
His view was that the machine should be retrofitted and that the existing controller is a waste of time.
Where he does not have experience is in the area of the CS Labs IP-A / S systems. This is where you / Gary come into the picture :-)
Ill post some pics a bit later once I have drawn them of what I believe the connectivity might be between IP-A and the current wiring, but I am not sure on this and will ask for feedback / guidance.
Thanks
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Does this look like I can feed with 220V instead of 3 Phase to get 110V?
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15589&stc=1
I suspect so but ideal to get some confirmation - saves me needing to get a 220 / 110V transformer.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chaz
Where he does not have experience is in the area of the CS Labs IP-A / S systems. This is where you / Gary come into the picture :-)
Ill post some pics a bit later once I have drawn them of what I believe the connectivity might be between IP-A and the current wiring, but I am not sure on this and will ask for feedback / guidance.
Ok understand. When I get time i'll take a look at your schematic and Drive manual to see if I can make sense of what you'll need.
My suggestion is to break the conversion down into small parts and not try to eat the whole elephant in one sitting. SO
First concentrate on getting it moving and whats required to do so. Then deal with sundries like ATC and spindle, coolant etc.
There's more work to the ATC than you probably realise because as well has pneumatics you'll need ATC M6 macro writing to suit the controller so it can control the pneumatics and position axis etc in sequence before it can be used correctly. There will be ATC M6 start macros floating around you can use but still 99% chance if you find one it will need modding to suit the IP-A or controller your using.
Coolant etc is easy stuff that is just switched ON/OFF using relays/contactors etc controlled thru outputs and can be added at any time.
Give me a ring if your unsure.!
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Ok understand. When I get time i'll take a look at your schematic and Drive manual to see if I can make sense of what you'll need.
My suggestion is to break the conversion down into small parts and not try to eat the whole elephant in one sitting. SO
First concentrate on getting it moving and whats required to do so. Then deal with sundries like ATC and spindle, coolant etc.
There's more work to the ATC than you probably realise because as well has pneumatics you'll need ATC M6 macro writing to suit the controller so it can control the pneumatics and position axis etc in sequence before it can be used correctly. There will be ATC M6 start macros floating around you can use but still 99% chance if you find one it will need modding to suit the IP-A or controller your using.
Coolant etc is easy stuff that is just switched ON/OFF using relays/contactors etc controlled thru outputs and can be added at any time.
Give me a ring if your unsure.!
Thanks. i2i has indicated he has most / all of these macros.
At present, Im 99% sure the IP-A will work. Im checking wiring and it seems to match. 6 wires for the resolver, 1 ground, 3 for the motor.
Page 36 of the IP-A manual shows what's needed and seems to match page 32 of http://www.irtsa.com/IMG/pdf/me1300re.pdf
The pricing wont hold on the CS Labs, once they are sold out, the price goes back up. Willing to order one now, if its wrong, ill sell it on or try and exchange it later.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chaz
Thanks. i2i has indicated he has most / all of these macros.
Yes he does but it will still need modding to work with IP-A. Cslabs controllers do alot of things differently to how Mach3 normally works and that's whats makes them good because they do it there way which works much better but it does mean they have dedicated outputs and params etc which will need to be included in the Macro.
Also if the Spindle as an encoder fitted and needs to index for tool holder alignment you'll need CSlabs Encoder module. It probably doesn't but best mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chaz
At present, Im 99% sure the IP-A will work. Im checking wiring and it seems to match. 6 wires for the resolver, 1 ground, 3 for the motor.
Page 36 of the IP-A manual shows what's needed and seems to match page 32 of
http://www.irtsa.com/IMG/pdf/me1300re.pdf
Yes it will work. Resolver comes from Motor to Drive and as nothing to do with IP-A. Encoder output on Drive goes to Encoder Inputs on IP-A to close the loop between controller and Drive. At the moment you'll find it goes to the Controller that's fitted.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Yes he does but it will still need modding to work with IP-A. Cslabs controllers do alot of things differently to how Mach3 normally works and that's whats makes them good because they do it there way which works much better but it does mean they have dedicated outputs and params etc which will need to be included in the Macro.
Also if the Spindle as an encoder fitted and needs to index for tool holder alignment you'll need CSlabs Encoder module. It probably doesn't but best mentioned.
Yes it will work. Resolver comes from Motor to Drive and as nothing to do with IP-A. Encoder output on Drive goes to Encoder Inputs on IP-A to close the loop between controller and Drive. At the moment you'll find it goes to the Controller that's fitted.
Thanks, yes, sorry, that's what I meant. I ordered the controller about an hour ago to get it for the weekend on the basis that I was fairly certain it was correct.
Does this controller work with Mach 4?
Which of the modules is the encoder module? Are you able to link it please? Also, how would I know, what do I look for that might be able to indicate if its needed or not?
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chaz
Does this controller work with Mach 4?
Yes and No.
Yes there is a Plug-in for M4 but it's still in Testing phase and not yet 100% stable so I'd recommend you don't Bother.
The good thing is with M4 you can run it along side M3 without interfering with each other so testing M4 is easy if you want to try it and won't wreck your normal working M3 setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chaz
Which of the modules is the encoder module? Are you able to link it please? Also, how would I know, what do I look for that might be able to indicate if its needed or not?
I've had a quick look at schematic and it's a DC spindle with no sign of encoder so wouldn't worry about it.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Yes there is a plugging already available for mach 4.
This is the link the encoder module.
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...io-ip-s-a.html
however, you would typically fit a servo to the spindle to get the best from it for tapping.
If the existing spindle is a high speed spindle, it is unlikely you will be able to tap with it, due to the lack of torque at the lower speeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chaz
Thanks, yes, sorry, that's what I meant. I ordered the controller about an hour ago to get it for the weekend on the basis that I was fairly certain it was correct.
Does this controller work with Mach 4?
Which of the modules is the encoder module? Are you able to link it please? Also, how would I know, what do I look for that might be able to indicate if its needed or not?
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Yes and No.
Yes there is a Plug-in for M4 but it's still in Testing phase and not yet 100% stable so I'd recommend you don't Bother.
The good thing is with M4 you can run it along side M3 without interfering with each other so testing M4 is easy if you want to try it and won't wreck your normal working M3 setup.
I've had a quick look at schematic and it's a DC spindle with no sign of encoder so wouldn't worry about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
Yes there is a plugging already available for mach 4.
This is the link the encoder module.
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...io-ip-s-a.html
however, you would typically fit a servo to the spindle to get the best from it for tapping.
If the existing spindle is a high speed spindle, it is unlikely you will be able to tap with it, due to the lack of torque at the lower speeds.
Thanks both.
Ive installed Mach 3 and 4 to look around. Previously I used Planet CNC which I became familiar with.
Can I test both of these before buying a license (demo period or similar)?
In terms of 4th axis, how difficult, using this IP-A controller, would it be to get the older electronics for a 4th axis? Not sure if its possible to run different controllers or not (irrespective of cost)?
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Yes, you can use Mach3 and 4 in Demo mode. Mach3 has a few features disabled (run from here is main one, but there are a couple others I've forgotten) and has a limit on the number of lines of G-code it'll run. Mach 4 just stops working after a random amount of time and needs restarted.
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Regarding testing the servos, find the two wires to the drives that provided the +/-10V input, power up the drives, and using a 1.5V battery in series with about a 100ohm resistor (you can do it without the resistor, but it provides some protection if you happen to try connecting to the wrong wires/pins) connect it across the +/-10V input wires, then try reversing the connection. The servos should turn reasonably slowly in both directions, which lets you know the servos and drives are working.
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Another option for a Controller, would be a Dynomotion KFlop + Kanalog combo (along with possibly a Konnect to gain more IO). The Kanalog gives you differential encoder inputs along with analogue inputs and outputs, while still retaining the option to use step/dir. However it is a more complicated controller to setup, and you have order direct from over the pond.
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Personally, before you commit to buying a controller, I'd suggest making up a list (I make a spreadsheet) of all the inputs and outputs you're going to need, and what type of input/output i.e. analogue/digital/voltage, along with anything you may like to add in the future.
If you post the list up here, I'm sure people on here will quite happily check it over. Going from your initial list, things like limit switches don't need connected to the controller. Connect them up via the E-stop circuit, with a manual override push switch to bypass them if you do run into them. When you first start, it seems like a good idea to monitor every single switch, but in reality/use, you soon realise it's not needed.
Actually having scanned over your list again, I suspect the top limit switches should actually be the homing switches/sensors, as you also mention over limit switches further down.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
m_c
Yes, you can use Mach3 and 4 in Demo mode. Mach3 has a few features disabled (run from here is main one, but there are a couple others I've forgotten) and has a limit on the number of lines of G-code it'll run. Mach 4 just stops working after a random amount of time and needs restarted.
.
Regarding testing the servos, find the two wires to the drives that provided the +/-10V input, power up the drives, and using a 1.5V battery in series with about a 100ohm resistor (you can do it without the resistor, but it provides some protection if you happen to try connecting to the wrong wires/pins) connect it across the +/-10V input wires, then try reversing the connection. The servos should turn reasonably slowly in both directions, which lets you know the servos and drives are working.
.
Another option for a Controller, would be a Dynomotion KFlop + Kanalog combo (along with possibly a Konnect to gain more IO). The Kanalog gives you differential encoder inputs along with analogue inputs and outputs, while still retaining the option to use step/dir. However it is a more complicated controller to setup, and you have order direct from over the pond.
.
Personally, before you commit to buying a controller, I'd suggest making up a list (I make a spreadsheet) of all the inputs and outputs you're going to need, and what type of input/output i.e. analogue/digital/voltage, along with anything you may like to add in the future.
If you post the list up here, I'm sure people on here will quite happily check it over. Going from your initial list, things like limit switches don't need connected to the controller. Connect them up via the E-stop circuit, with a manual override push switch to bypass them if you do run into them. When you first start, it seems like a good idea to monitor every single switch, but in reality/use, you soon realise it's not needed.
Actually having scanned over your list again, I suspect the top limit switches should actually be the homing switches/sensors, as you also mention over limit switches further down.
Thanks. Ive bought the CSLabs IP-A already. It should arrive tomorrow and hopefully I can get some movement this weekend. Theoretically I could get a fair bit of progress unless I run into some issues. The ATC needs a few parts but if I can get basic movement, Ill be OK with that. There are 2 sets of switches from what I can see on the drawing, one set is absolute limit switches and then the others are Datum / Zero. On a 3D printer the absolute limit ones would have been referred to as the + limits and - limit is normally the Zero position.
Also agree, dont need a lot connected to get basic movement and will wire in the bits that I need, as I need it.
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Re: Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix
OK, so some progress.
Completed:-
Converted most of the power system to single phase. Need to still sort out the coolant pump however.
Removed the old PC to make space for the CS Labs controller.
Looked at a lot of the wiring, for a long time.
Worked out that from the 3 Axis connectors that used to go to the old PC, I can basically input and output to that 15 Way D sub connector to get encoder signals out and speed reference in as well as satisfying some of the logic requirements.
Worked out where the Spindle Drive 0-10V can be connected to on the standard block. Some of the logic that enables the drive I am not sure about yet.
Fairly happy with the progress although so much to look at and find on other sheets / cross reference, takes ages.
All going to plan, I should be able to move all drives and start the spindle tomorrow unless there is a unit faulty or something goes wrong (hope not).
Will use a laptop at first to setup the CS Labs unit and get going until I can build a PC into the cabinet. Not sure about space as the CSLabs unit takes a fair whack of space, might make another plan.