Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
firetrappe
Since I'd have to source and buy suitable needle valves, taps, fittings etc, I'm wondering whether it's worth taking a punt on one of the ready-made units from China
Problem is Si they are mister so work on venturi affect which creates the fine mist and chokes you to death.!! You wouldn't live 5mins in your little place.!!
You need a pressured system that injects drops into the air flow. Actually very easy to make but requires pressure vessel and valves etc.
Or just have 2 pipes one for air and another with collant drip feeding into the air flow.!!! . . . . Simplizzzzzzzz
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
May be you are already aware of these plans, seems quite cheap and easy to build.
I am also contemplating how to do it.
Perhaps the cheapest and least complicated way to do it will be to dedicate small air compressor +the nozzle from the plans above.
Now comes to my mind that instead of fiddling with pressure tanks, connectors and so, it would be best to use the compressor tank itself and half fill it with cooling liquid. So the drain valve connection will feed the cooler line, the air will come from the air line. Both lines will go into the nozzle and mixture will be regulated via needle valve there.
So basically the only modification needed will be fit inlet valve from where the liquid goes in. Though can be done by simply unscrewing the regulator above or the liquid line below and refill, without any modification.
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Dean - Thanks for the input. I realised the ones I linked to are used the venturi principal which atomises the droplets. This is the effect i'm getting at the moment using my cheap airbrush setup
And you're right, the fine mist created is horrible and fills my little shed in minutes! I was thinking of using the mixing block etc from one of those systems but feeding it from a pressurised coolant container.
Silyavski - Thanks for the link to those plans. I'd seen them before, but they were linked to from this thread. Karl_T recently modified that system as it didn't work well with air-blast only (see post #64).
I like your idea of using the compressor's tank as the coolant dispenser. My only concern would be that you would get water mixed in with the coolant (not a big issue) but you're also likely to get rust particles contaminating/blocking the coolant line.
My preference would be to have 2 regulators coming from the main tank outlet, one for air pressure, one for coolant pressure. Feed the coolant line into one of these (as shown in the link above) then to the mixing block and run the air line directly to the mixing block.
I'm also thinking that it might be beneficial to have 2 lines/nozzles from the mixing block rather than one. I think that 2 nozzles at 90º to each other would be more effective at clearing chips from deeper slots when using air blast only. Maybe one for air and one for mist, with the option to use both as air only.
I'll keep reading and searching suppliers to see if I can come up with plan.
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Some update. i like designing and challenge.
I tried the way they tell it but the effect was not to my liking. The spray pattern was not good and the control of the flow was lame.
So in my free time i started experimenting and little by little i designed my own fog-less mister cooling. Bellow is a video of me testing the nozzles while Jeff is cutting my Z axis spindle mount, this today. Unfortunately the phone battery run low so i captured the moment with too much flow from the nozzle, you can see the mist at the back, though in fact its no mist but droplets, there was too much flow. So the video is of how it should not be, but you can see the cleaning effect of the air blowing away the chips.
Later when i lowered the flow it was perfect, blowing the chips, cooling the bit but at the same time no mist in the room after half an hour milling. I am thinking to manufacture some and sell them for a reasonable price.
What i can say is that just sticking tubes together as per some drawing does not work well, all flow connections and transitions should be well thought and shaped, plus the exit nozzle must be shaped properly. when done properly the flow seems to reach ultrasonic speed judging by the sound and at the same time does not mist but forms nice, thin, long, properly shaped flame like cloud that disappears completely after hitting the material. The best result is when at the middle of the "flame" at "ultrasonic" speed forms a nice needle like thicker stream of droplets.
what i mean without wanting to insult somebody is that after i played around and experimented for a couple of days, i saw that even a product which all worship and is worth 350$ is not so well thought of, as they want us to believe. Some day when i have more time will illustrate what i say with photos and proper video. lets say that with the bigger flow nozzle when adjusted properly i achieved a 40-50cm long stream where at this long distances is only 5cm wide and still no mist there. Its only flow being too much flow, though maybe for stone will be ok. In fact if there was a reflector at the back where the flow could hiot it there was no mist at all, cause all droplets were falling down. The problem comes with too much flow and nothing to stop them. At the end there is transition to mist, so that must be avoided, by limiting the flow for example or the nozzle size and shape.
For now a crappy video of the system . Forgot to say also- crappy Chinese valves and speed adjuster did not work. Same with custom valves made from this and that. But "made in Italy " valve worked like a charm for precise flow control. Guess why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wFq...ature=youtu.be
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Re: Fogless Mister Systems
I got fed up with trying to get the flows right, so made this
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsattuk
I got fed up with trying to get the flows right, so made this
You could sell that at Etsy as steam punk art :hysterical:. Man, its beautiful. Looks like a mist cooler coming from the future or like something savaged from a spaceship station
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Totally independent control of Fluid and air, air can be pulsed for better pocket clearance,without affecting the amount of fluid delivered. Can squirt fluid alone (up to 90 cc's a min )for some jobs.
Fluid container can be put wherever you like ( within reason) , does not siphon or drain back, will handle different viscosity's .
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsattuk
Totally independent control of Fluid and air, air can be pulsed for better pocket clearance,without affecting the amount of fluid delivered. Can squirt fluid alone (up to 90 cc's a min )for some jobs.
Fluid container can be put wherever you like ( within reason) , does not siphon or drain back, will handle different viscosity's .
I Like the sound of that John and very well made. . . . Got couple of Q's if you don't mind answering. You may have just added another Job to my endless list.!
Whats on the heat sink on right.? Looks like thermister, resistors and black box which I'm not sure about.! And what are they doing.?
What and where's the power source.? ie voltage.
Where did you get the peristaltic pump.?
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
That being said it still leaves the question of the nozzle/delivering tube/body /support/connectors assembly. How do you do that?
Another question is the complexity, some times simple things last longer in industrial enviroment , on the other hand it can be expensive for eventual time to time home use or on a small cheap machine.
I mean is one thing to design an usefull system. My Russian friend who is an experienced model maker did his system for under 5 minutes from what he had at hand.
Its another thing to design cheap, clever, reliable and nice looking product/in that order that could cover most of the real needs of fellow machinists.
You made that for yourself or with the idea of selling it?
And when you will need the squirting? from my experiments even tiny tube could give tremendous flow. In fact for comparison 1mm nozzle gives 160l/min flow if i remember correctly some plasma cutter torch specifications
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Whats on the heat sink on right.? Looks like thermister, resistors and black box which I'm not sure about.! And what are they doing.?
What and where's the power source.? ie voltage.
Where did you get the peristaltic pump.?
Not really a heat sink, just a packer. underneath is an SSR to control the air valve, the square with a red blob is a 12v lamp-flasher which gives me the pulses, next to it is a 12v reg. (with a couple of ceramic capacitors ) needed because I am supplying 24 volts from my main panel. The AUTO mode is an M7 relay in the panel.
www.wmcpumps.com as on the back of the pump. I chose a 3mm tube but if I replace it will use a 1.5 mill
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silyavski
My Russian friend who is an experienced model maker did his system for under 5 minutes from what he had at hand.
I could make a crude system in 1min by just piercing tiny hole in bottle and letting gravity do the work dripping droplets in front of my air nozzle. It would have the same characteristics has Johns system in that it would be independant control of air and fluid but I wouldn't because it won't be affective and look shite.!! . . . . I don't get your point is what I'm trying to say.!
John's system is metered indepedant control of air and fluid which in practice will be be much more usable than any Fogger sytem. I would relate Fogger equivalent to normal hammer and based on my experience estimate Jonh's sytem to be equivalent to Piano tuners hammer.!! . . . . Both hammers but different.
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silyavski
That being said it still leaves the question of the nozzle/delivering tube/body /support/connectors assembly. How do you do that?
Another question is the complexity, some times simple things last longer in industrial enviroment , on the other hand it can be expensive for eventual time to time home use or on a small cheap machine.
I mean is one thing to design an usefull system. My Russian friend who is an experienced model maker did his system for under 5 minutes from what he had at hand.
Its another thing to design cheap, clever, reliable and nice looking product/in that order that could cover most of the real needs of fellow machinists.
You made that for yourself or with the idea of selling it?
And when you will need the squirting? from my experiments even tiny tube could give tremendous flow. In fact for comparison 1mm nozzle gives 160l/min flow if i remember correctly some plasma cutter torch specifications
Since there is no requirement for a venturi or pressurized container almost anything works, I just used an old NOGA that I had.
I made it for myself, I have no commercial intentions whatsoever. I am 80yrs old and in the middle of a delayed midlife crisis.
If you don't need squirting, then don't use it
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsattuk
If you don't need squirting, then don't use it
Quote of the Day.!!. . . . So so funny I just took a bite of toast and gulp of tea as I read that and now my Laptop looks like a damp loaf. . :hysterical:
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsattuk
Not really a heat sink, just a packer. underneath is an SSR to control the air valve, the square with a red blob is a 12v lamp-flasher which gives me the pulses, next to it is a 12v reg. (with a couple of ceramic capacitors ) needed because I am supplying 24 volts from my main panel. The AUTO mode is an M7 relay in the panel.
www.wmcpumps.com as on the back of the pump. I chose a 3mm tube but if I replace it will use a 1.5 mill
Thanks John I got the Jist of what would be needed to make this work from pic and the Reg I recognised but it was the Blackbox with what looked like a Thermister above it that thru me off.! . . . . . Now I look again can see it's part of the black box.!
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
That with the pulsing seems a great idea. I missed that.
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Thanks John I got the Jist of what would be needed to make this work from pic and the Reg I recognised but it was the Blackbox with what looked like a Thermistor above it that thru me off.! . . . . . Now I look again can see it's part of the black box.!
I didn't mention the round black item - this is just a small air reservoir mounted directly on the air valve, (bigger would be better but its what I had lying about) it gives a bit more bite to the pulses and dampens the air gauge a little.
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Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Just a note about my vision of the correct flow shape. I would like to illustrate how i like it. See photo below.
I maxed the cooling supply so its more clear whats happening. When milling aluminum you can barely see the coolant flow. When nozzle properly made /IMO/ the overall "flame" shape is long and concentrated and in the middle forms a very nice thicker stream, it basically sounds like a nice small propane turbo burner . No mist at all. You hit a wall with this stream and it all goes down, nothing up in the air.
that stream bellow is should be enough even for engraving stone and soon i will try it when i have my machine ready :-)
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15021&stc=1
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Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsattuk
I got fed up with trying to get the flows right, so made this
Hi All,
I Just wanted to say thank you to johnsattuk for the idea, I have built one of his peristaltic coolant systems and it works a treat!!
Very happy :-), if you'd like to see how it looks and works then follow the link below to my YouTube video at:
https://youtu.be/URk_8mYi-z4
Many thanks again!
Cheers
Barry M
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Have just ordered something from Amazon for £15! Basically its the venturi, 2 flow control valves (air and coolant), a length of Loc-Line and a nozzle at end. Not sure whats going to happen but sure we'll see.
Question; What is the fluid used/ Soluble oil and water or what? WHAt dilution / ensity should the fluid be?
For the price I'm not expecting any instructions
Will
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
So this is what arrived today:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071DXGG..._TE_item_image
Must say I'm quite impressed. A sintered filter and a one way valve on the fluid line. Two needle valves and a 5/16" air line push fit. Rigged it up to a small air brush compressor and it works a treat. Obviously I need a bigger compressor to get max air flow but the venturi works even at air brush outputs.
Re: Fogless Mister Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Will_D
So this is what arrived today:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071DXGG..._TE_item_image
Must say I'm quite impressed. A sintered filter and a one way valve on the fluid line. Two needle valves and a 5/16" air line push fit. Rigged it up to a small air brush compressor and it works a treat. Obviously I need a bigger compressor to get max air flow but the venturi works even at air brush outputs.
First make it to work, then be impressed. I did my first one using chinese needle valve for 5$ and it ended breaking seal after 5 min. Now i use Italian made valve and have not had any problems since. Valve must be good or it will not work properly.
