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Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Hi there
Just assembling the components for my new build CNC conversion of the Warco WM16 milling machine.
I Converted a little Proxxon Micro Mill to CNC for fun a few years back and sold it on when I'd finished, I used all the cheapest Chinese bits I could get and was quite happy with the result...
This time I'm aiming for something a bit different.
WM16
There are plenty of resources detailing conversions of this machine and variants on the internet and it seemed a logical choice both in terms of size and price so I went ahead and bought it. The same machine (or VERY similar) is also sold as the Grizzly G0704, Optimum BF20l and Amadeal AMAT25LV I believe...
I have purchased 2HSS86H closed loop hybrid drives with 2 x 8.5Nm motors for X and Y axis and a 12Nm motor for the Z as well as some cheap chinese pre-machined ballscrews and nuts from ebay which I can play with without too much worry...
(I should say that I've been advised, correctly I believe, that these motors and drivers are oversize for this application but i'm going ahead with this approach because I got the motors and drivers at a giveaway price from a mate's incomplete router project! BE WARNED!)
Probably going for UC300eth for motion control with one HDBB2 breakout board with UCC software...
Got a couple of ideas for the motor and bearing mounts but will have to take a good look at the mill before I start...
First off is a stripdown, clean and assessment... I'll post again afterwards with some more info.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Those motors are far, far to big and will only slow the machine down believe it or not.
4.5 Nm for X and Y and the same for Z but with 2:1 belt reduction.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
I'm not looking for speed
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
I'm hoping to keep the motors and drivers for my next project... But at the risk of sounding dumb, why should the larger motors affect top speed? Surely not through inertia?
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
I suppose that the higher power means that current switching will be slower... but not to any degree that will matter considering the maximum velocity these motors are rated at and the application that they are being used in?
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
If I run them at plenty high voltage this should offset switching rates through the windings...
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
The motors will never be under any real load and should never get warm either which will reduce internal resistance after extended periods and again offset speed at which current flow can be changed though the windings over smaller motors..
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Well you seem to have it sorted then. I have a WM18 mill with nema 23s with 2:1 reduction at 68V and am882 drives and it is fine.
You will need to do some more research if you think nema 34 8.5Nm are correct.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
I'll use what I've got and hope that it's adequate. I want to use the motors and drives for a much bigger CNC router project later... it's not really that important that this machine runs super fast it's not for production more for fun! But thanks for the input, I'll consider it when I build my next mill.
This mill is more to enable me to play with these drives and whatever controller before my router build.
Incidentally, I'm going to direct drive the Z axis... belts are just another link in a chain imo.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
I'll keep you posted as to how this pans out!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Hi, I sell a similar machine to the warco and am currently designing a sort of plug and play CNC kit with pro quality hardware that does not need you to machine the castings. If you are interested let me know.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noyloj
Incidentally, I'm going to direct drive the Z axis... belts are just another link in a chain imo.
You have lot to learn Mr.!! . . And your not going to learn anything except how to waste money if your going to ignore advise from VERY VERY VERY experienced builders.
Motor size isn't all about speed and Belts are in no way weak link.!! . . . . Now suggest if your not prepared to listen then you go away quitely and research out why two experienced builders have used Smaller motor and Belts on larger machines.?
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
My vote goes to: belts are not to be afraid of and that, for the machine, Nema 24's are fine.
Spend more money on quality than size.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Yes I'm sure I have lots to learn and I'm looking forward to doing in the critical eyes of all the experts here! But the motors are bought and paid for so they are going in, direct drive similar to Hoss's machine plans in the US. Afterwards when I've played with my choice of motors, controllers, software and bobs I can re-use them on the steel frame router I want to build. So unless someone wants to donate some nice quality Nema 24s then live with it. I will.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noyloj
So unless someone wants to donate some nice quality Nema 24s then live with it. I will.
Ar@$ H@£% You won't get much help here with that attitude and with those size motors your planned router will be shite as well.!! . . . Crack On.:stupid:
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Thanks for your permission!
I'm sensing a lot of hostility here! Chill out who gives a flying f@*k if this machine isn't the most efficient machine in the universe. Have a cup of tea and try to get things in perspective!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noyloj
Yes I'm sure I have lots to learn and look I'm forward to doing in the critical eyes of all the experts here! But the motors are bought and paid for so they are going in, direct drive similar to Hoss's machine plans in the US. Afterwards when I've played with my choice of motors, controllers, software and bobs I can re-use them on the steel frame router I want to build. So unless someone wants to donate some nice quality Nema 24s then live with it. I will.
Have you actually read his site because he use nema 23 I wonder why.
Its not us that has to live with it its you. Looks like you are pissing a lot of people off.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noyloj
Thanks for your permission!
I'm sensing a lot of hostility here! Chill out who gives a flying f@*k if this machine isn't the most efficient machine in the universe. Have a cup of tea and try to get things in perspective!
Your Welcome.!!
We try to help people here from making mistakes and one way to do that is by pointing things out whether the OP likes to hear it or not.?
Reason we do this is because even if the OP is Arrogant Arse and won't listen there are many more who see this and do listen so won't make the mistakes the Plonker OP DID or WILL DO.!!
Don't Be Plonker try listening and you'll learn something.! . . Make my Tea strong, no Sugar I'm sweet enough . .:beer:
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Yes but this will be an honest log of a build using these motors. I got them for £60 including drivers and power supplies. I'm not pissing anyone off I'm trying to describe a build for good or bad. It's information. So like I said they are not ideal but they will work, I imagine, and enable me to make parts for a bigger 8x4 router I want to make. I'm sorry if you don't like it but that's how it is you don't need to get so riled up because I'm going my own way!
I edited the initial post to clarify that this mill drive motor combination may not be ideal so that others don't attempt to copy this design without following the thread to it's conclusion.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Whatever.
Don't bother with my tea, don't drink the piss.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Good for you! That's super!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Anyhoooo!
So just finished my lovely cup of tea.... It's got me thinking though... perhaps I'll make my Stepper mounting plates Nema 23 and Nema 34 compatible... just a matter of making the plates big enough and tapping a few extra holes... Hmmmm
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Better still Nema 24 compatible as I can get 3Nm Nema 24s that can perhaps use the same drivers as my larger Nema 34s...
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
23's and 24's are compatible as regards hole sizes. It just the bodies that are bigger.
Just double checked with a digital vernier as I'm sat here 3D printing covers out for both.
http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk...or%20ends..jpg
6 done, 1,234 to go :ambivalence:
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
That's handy, thanks! I think JMC do a 3 Nm Nema24 60HSE closed loop hybrid stepper motor... but I'm not sure it will be compatible with the 2HSS86H drivers... The motor specs are quite similar as regards resistance, step angle, etc... only the inductance seems to be lower... any idea if I can use these together?
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
It seems that with a motor with less inductance, the switching frequency will increase as well. This is why each stepper driver system needs to be “tuned” to the motor. If the motor inductance is different, so will its Ldi/dt be different. At the end it is this Ldi/dt which defines the TIME_ON period of the current chopping waveform...
These dives, being fairly good quality might be capable of running these motors however... time for a message to technical support!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
It wasn't what I thought it was...
http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machi...g-machine.html
Suggestion: Ask Dean what motors to get and then bodge it together using those, the existing X Y screws and something clever but temporary on the Z.
Once it is "working", redesign it because you now have experience and understanding. Plus you have a "working" CNC mill so you can do a really neat job of the conversion.
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Thanks... it's kinda the plan in fact.
The initial build will be with the oversize motors that I picked up cheap all direct drive... but I picked up x,y(front mount) and z ballscrews and nuts from ebay for a song too complete with endmachining... all in £110. I'm basing my provisional build around Hoss's design (well known in a certain US CNC forum). When it's working and I've got my head round the drives, controller software combination then I want to make a steel frame CNC router, 'cos I've got a nice MIG and loads of free steel as well as a more permanent, rear y motor mount direct drive setup for the Warco probably with smaller motors! Shhh though don't tell anyone about the reduced size motors in the final phase!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
So I went ahead and ordered the UC300ETH as well as their BOB HDBB2 and UCC software... Not the cheapest solution but after a bit of research probably about as good as anything else... and made in Europe... the same Europe that we are leaving... so that we can't trade with easily anymore... whose idea was that!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
It's me again! Your friendly neighbourhood upstart a&*$%£e! Well it seems that my drivers are copies of copies of Leadshine ES-D 808 drivers... Leadshine offer free tuning software on their website for this driver which is also listed as being appropriate for the 3Nm Nema24 frame ES-M22430, which I will probably replace my 8.5Nm x and y axis motors with... (possibly shifting one of the 8.5 up to the z position to replace the 12Nm) but that's gonna be after I've finished the preliminary build and can cut some metal...
Hopefully the tuning software will run on the copy drivers... fingers crossed!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Well it's me again! More digging and I find that the drivers aren't JMC at all they are Changzhou Jinsanshi Mechatronics HSS86 (http://www.jss-motor.com/product/nem...nd-driver.html) they also seem to be a very close copy of the Leadshine ES-D 808 driver mentioned in the previous post. I have fired them an email to see if they also supply tuning software...
WARCO have crated up my WM16 for dispatch so hopefully should get it in a few days...
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Incidentally are there any Moderators out there who could move this Thread to the Mill Conversion part of this Forum, where it is probably more appropriate, or tell me if it's possible for me to do this!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
We don't have moderators, only dictators
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Well certainly parts of the last word!
Jo A -
hole...
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
I meant tators of course like mashed tators! Y'know?
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Of course if no-one knows HOW to move this thread I'm sure there are forums that could explain to you how to do it... And what colour shirt you have to wear whilst moving the thread.. and what hot beverage to drink afterward... etc...
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Ok I.ve spent an hour examining the differences between the Leadshine Hybrid motors and the jss-motors (Changzhou Jinsanshi Mechatronics) copies... the pinouts for the DB9 are quite different... this is not a good sign for me using the Leadshine motor tuning software... There is an outside chance that the eeproms of both are the same and I can use the software to Rx and Tx if I just get the pin connections right, but it's unlikely. I will see what jss-motors recommend for tuning... I think JMC offer a hand held tuning device for their hybrid motors, maybe jss-motors do the same...
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Still waiting for my UC300ETH and BOB and cables... Ho Hum! Would give me something to play with whilst I wait for the Mill to be shipped... never mind though I will catch up with some homework!
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Re: Warco WM16 CNC Conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noyloj
Of course if no-one knows HOW to move this thread I'm sure there are forums that could explain to you how to do it... And what colour shirt you have to wear whilst moving the thread.. and what hot beverage to drink afterward... etc...
Well get your self off then.!!. . . . . Sure with attitude like yours you'll go down storm there as well.:encouragement: