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Please help with this build Albert
Hi my name is Albert I am starting to build a CNC router hopefully.
Firstly I will outline my good and bad points about myself. This is not to get you to help me just so you know my limitations.
Pros
I have been a multi skilled engineer since I left school I am 65 in a couple of weeks.
I have built machine’s from plans a few times so can understand and follow drawings.
I have a reasonable selections of tools that I am competent in using.
Cons
Since an event in my life 10 years ago I have been unable to work as this event left me with severe mental health problems.
1. Very bad depression. I have been trough some very dark times. This project I just one more step to my recovery which happening but very slowly. I have good days and bad days when on a bad day can do nothing at all
2. Anxiety I worry about everything.
3. OCD which in my case means everything has to be done right.
4. I am awaiting 2 knee replacements trying to put them off till I build the CNC router learning to use it will keep me sane while I recover.
My specifications for the machine.
1. To take up an area 100cm X 60cm
2. To be able to be used to cut hardwood and soft metals
3. To be as low cost as possible.
4. To be as exact as possible as I intend to do veneer and inlay work on it.
5. To have the machine finished by beginning of next year.
Materials I have already
3 NEMA 24 stepper motors 8 wire 3.4 NM
3 1605 ball screws with anti backlash nuts in the following sizes 1000mm 600mm & 300mm
20mm supported guide rails in the above sized with 12 Bock’s to fit them
Some 40x80mm aluminium profile
Some 10mm plate off cuts
Need help right from design stage so confused by all the different types out there.
The building is part of my therapy to give me back some self esteem and belief in mAny help is welcome but please try not to leave any comments to negative as I take them on-board an they have a very negative effect on my mood.
I will try to keep this build log as detailed as possible to help and encourage others who have given up.
Thank you
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
Since an event in my life 10 years ago I have been unable to work as this event left me with severe mental health problems.
1. Very bad depression. I have been trough some very dark times. This project I just one more step to my recovery which happening but very slowly. I have good days and bad days when on a bad day can do nothing at all
2. Anxiety I worry about everything.
3. OCD which in my case means everything has to be done right.
4. I am awaiting 2 knee replacements trying to put them off till I build the CNC router learning to use it will keep me sane while I recover.
The building is part of my therapy to give me back some self esteem and belief in mAny help is welcome but please try not to leave any comments to negative as I take them on-board an they have a very negative effect on my mood.
I will try to keep this build log as detailed as possible to help and encourage others who have given up.
Thank you
Albert
Hi Albert,
Well, first off welcome and you are in very good company here because many of us suffer depression or have had mental health issues at some point. Whether they are brave enough to admit or not is another thing.! So you are succeeding straight away in my book.:encouragement:
I have helped many people who have taken up CNC as a hobby explicitly to overcome Depression and anxiety with no need for a CNC machine what so ever, who where advised by therapists to take up a hobby. Often they have been people with very stressful jobs, Lawers, Doctors, Teachers even a Rocket scientist who worked at NASA which I found amusing because I was helping a guy who had an IQ higher than my "steps per setting" who sent men into space yet still needed help with CNC, So it just shows CNC building is harder than Rocket science...:hysterical: . . . (But it's not so don't stress) and I'm actually using a machine that was built by someone who worked in High Finance who when he recovered and able to work again emigrated to the Emirates and couldn't take the machine so gave it to me for helping him. All these people were on this forum, many still are but will remain nameless.
I'll post again about the machine when I've had to time to think, just wanted to say hello and let you know your not alone.!
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Albert,
I'm with you on number 2. I even fret about what I'm going to type in a forum entry at times. Do you ever find you can't make yourself remember half the things you did yesterday but can't make yourself forget the silly-but-not-really-so-very-bad things you did 40 years ago?
Dean,
Rocket science isn't that complicated, it's just LOUD!
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
My specifications for the machine.
1. To take up an area 100cm X 60cm
2. To be able to be used to cut hardwood and soft metals
3. To be as low cost as possible.
4. To be as exact as possible as I intend to do veneer and inlay work on it.
5. To have the machine finished by beginning of next year.
Materials I have already
3 NEMA 24 stepper motors 8 wire 3.4 NM
3 1605 ball screws with anti backlash nuts in the following sizes 1000mm 600mm & 300mm
20mm supported guide rails in the above sized with 12 Bock’s to fit them
Some 40x80mm aluminium profile
Some 10mm plate off cuts
Right Albert points 2 to 5 are not a problem and easily achieved. #1, however, can't happen if you have ball screws the same length, ( I presume these are already machined.?) The length of the total machine will be at least an extra 200mm and more like 1300mm x 850mm for a machine with 1000mm x 600mm cutting area.
So I've got a few questions.
#1 Do you have End bearings for the ball screws, if so what type.?
#2 What length are the supported rails.?
#3 What is the inductance of the motors. It should say on the datasheet for them and will be number with Mh on the end. If don't know just post a link to where you got them.
#4 How much 80x40 do you have.?
#5 Can you work with steel and weld.?
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi I realise the cutting area will be smaller the outside measurements need to be around the 100cm by 60cm size hopefully will end up with a cutting area around 30cm by 60cm.
The motor details are
Inductance(Bipolar Serial): 12.8mH ± 20%(1KHz)
Inductance(Bipolar Parallel): 3.2mH ± 20%(1KHz)
Inductance(Unipolar): 3.2mH ± 20%(1KHz)
Support rails are 100cm, 60cm and 30cm long
Not sure type of end bearing but I do have them
The 80x40 profile I have a couple of pieces 50cm long and a local company has promised me 2 lengths 100cm long and 4 lengths 60cm long and maybe some more hopefully.
I can cut steel with angle grinder and drilling is no problem.
I don't have a welder so would have to get someone to do it for me.
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi Dean just seen your message I am the same as you frustrating sometimes
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
Hi Dean just seen your message I am the same as you frustrating sometimes
Albert
Lol.. he was referring to ME and the Rocket scientist when he said, Dean, he's called Kit. But don't worry he lives in the Outback and answers to anything due to all the blood rushing to his head living upside down for so long...:hysterical:
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
I see what you mean all that hanging upside down will do that to you
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Lol.. he was referring to ME and the Rocket scientist when he said, Dean, he's called Kit. But don't worry he lives in the Outback and answers to anything due to all the blood rushing to his head living upside down for so long...:hysterical:
Blimey Cobber! That's a cruel and heartless accusation, especially as I'm 50% pure Yorkshire. Probably true though.
Albert,
I live in a remote corner of Western Australia and suspect the nearest CNC machine to mine is as far away as Lands End is from John 'O' Groats so this forum is the only place I get to converse with like-minded people. I was actually referring to Dean's comment about having helped a rocket scientist in his previous post but it's not important.
More seriously, there is a lot to learn all at once about this CNC stuff and I wish I'd become an avid reader of MYCNCUK a bit sooner than I did.
If you like a good laugh then here's a look at my first ever machine. It never actually cut anything useful but it worked to prove I was capable of pulling together all the bits and pieces to make something that worked and gave me the confidence to invest a bit more of the hard earned cash in something more capable.
Kit
https://vimeo.com/146894861
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi Kit just watched the video I think for a first machine it cut great. How accurate was the machine.
Will you post a clip of the machine you are now using
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitwn
Blimey Cobber! That's a cruel and heartless accusation, especially as I'm 50% pure Yorkshire. Probably true though.
After seeing the Blu tack on that lead nut I'm upgrading you to an honorary 100% Yorkshire man ..:toot:
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
Hi Kit just watched the video I think for a first machine it cut great. How accurate was the machine.
Will you post a clip of the machine you are now using
Albert
That attempt was complete rubbish. The main weakness was the gantry which as a single lightweight beam would twist under minimal load. I soon upgraded that to two parallel pieces of the same stock which gave me something capable of cutting out thin MDF and plywood pieces at low feed rates.
My current beast is a steel framed machine with nothing of the original one left except the cheap Chinese breakout board and the computer running LnuxCNC. I'll put up a video of it doing something when I have time to make it do something.
Kit
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
After seeing the Blu tack on that lead nut I'm upgrading you to an honorary 100% Yorkshire man ..:toot:
Blu tack indeed! I'll have you know that's finest quality Australian 'Knead It" epoxy putty! But thank you for the very great honour. That's reet gradely of yer.
Kit
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
I have included a link to the ball screws and linear rails I bought hope it helps you guide me
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142502702416
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi jazzcnc as i said before it my 65th birthday in a couple of weeks so I will have more cash available do you think £200 to 300 will be enough to build the X,y and z axis withe the bits I already have.
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Albert,
I'm using similar SBR20 rails for my long axis (X on my machine) rails and SBR16 on the gantry. I've been happy with them so far. The accuracy of your machine is going to depend largely on how straight all the rails are. Then it's down to to how rigid everything is and how well you can align the beast once it's built. Keep in mind how you are going to do that during the design phase.
The 1000mm rails are going to allow you a maximum of around 800mm travel if you allow about 200mm for the gantry feet. The ballscrew might be the limiting factor there as the maximum possible travel on the screw will be the length of the actual threaded part minus the length of the ballnut. If you want to keep the length of the overall machine down then you will have to drive it with a belt and pulleys.
NOTE: If you run the ballnut off the screw all the balls fall out. You wouldn't be the first person to get caught out by that one. If you need to run it off to turn it round it can be done quite easily though.
650mm for the gantry mounted rails and ballscrew will get you less than 500mm travel and depends either on the ballscrew and nut as described above or the width of the Z axis assembly (mine is 160mm wide which is a tight fit for all the bits but is a standard size for aluminium bar stock) but with a single screw on the long axis you cannot expect to drive too wide a gantry anyway.
If you really are tight for space then I think you could keep the machine in a footprint no larger than the length of the rails/ballscrews using the parts you have bought but it would be easier not to and you will lose some of the available travel, especially on the long axis. You are clearly restricted by the sizes of the aluminium profile you have available which is going to affect the decisions made. This doesn't mean you cannot build a machine capable of useful work out of what you have but some compromises will be required. Based on what you've said, the construction of such a machine will have served it's purpose anyway. Once you have proved your own ability to make a machine that actually works you can then decide whether to commit the funds to doing what almost everyone else does. make a bigger one!
Kit
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi would it be better if I built the sides from 10mm or 15mm aluminium and how wide would it have to be.
I could use the profile for bracing across the bed.
As I can not see how to attach the rails to the profile as the hole spacing is 30mm and the profile is 40mm
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Having a single screw driving the long axis adds complication to the base design by requiring a moving beam underneath the machine bed. This is not something I have any personal experience of. Dean (JAZZCNC) has built a lot of machines like this and there are pictures of their internals on the forum somewhere. The design requirements for this will affect how you make the sides/base of the machine and what from.
Kit
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Please help with this build Albert
I've just done a Google search on MYCNCUK images and found a build thread from a few years back for a design which might be on the right track.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/8206-...Axis+CNC+Build
I've snaffled one specific image which might give you some ideas.
Attachment 28663
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi just been cleaning out the shed and found something that might be ok to use.
It is an igus slide made in Germany
It's dimensions are as follows
Overall length 560mm width 130mm.
Carriage is 130mm by 130mm maximum travel is 330mm.
20mm guide rails 18mm ball screw
Trying to add some pictures
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Having problems uploading pictures any idea why?
Can I email them
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Would it make life easier if added a second motor and ball screw to the X axis
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
You have to have made 10 posts to the forum before you can upload pictures but you're past that already. You may also have to reduce the file size. I generally reduce pictures to about 800 pixels wide for this purpose.
Re a second ballscrew: I've never used a machine with only one so can't really say how significant the performance difference is. Only you can decide if you want to spend the extra cash and the time waiting for it to arrive or whether to build the best machine you can with what you already have. You still have more parts to buy anyway and a design that allows for a future upgrade is not impossible with some thought.
Kit
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi I will try again with the picturesAttachment 28665
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi do you think I can use this or should I sell it
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
Hi do you think I can use this or should I sell it
Albert
You can waste an enormous amount of time trying to re-purpose things that were never designed for the job you have in mind. I've tried that myself and you often end up wasting money as well. Others on the forum may have a better idea of the usefulness or resale value of that specific item.
You already have 3 ballscrews, I would suggest you focus on designing a machine that uses those and the other materials you have available.
Kit
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi kit what are the advantages and disadvantages of
Connecting the motor straight to the ball screws and using a timing belt between them other than reduceing the speed.
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
With 5mm pitch screws you'd be looking at increasing the speed of the screw to get a higher linear speed from a given motor rpm, though I doubt you'd be too worried about that on a machine of the size you're looking at. If you want to cut aluminium then keeping to a 1:1 ratio for more torque but less speed would probably be the advice of the experts.
Direct drive is simpler and a bit cheaper but makes the overall machine length a good 200mm or more longer than the screw. Belt drive allows you to change the drive ratio as described above and to tuck the motor under the frame for a shorter overall length. You'd probably want to go for a belt drive on the gantry anyway rather than have a sticking-out motor flailing about the place but it's not compulsory. I have direct drive on the long (X) axis and vertical (Z) axis motors and a belt on the gantry (Y) axis motor.
Kit
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
Hi jazzcnc as i said before it my 65th birthday in a couple of weeks so I will have more cash available do you think £200 to 300 will be enough to build the X,y and z axis withe the bits I already have.
Albert
Sorry for the delay with reply Albert I've been a little busy.
I would say with careful buying and little scrounging that you could build a moving frame with £300 given the parts you already have. Obviously that doesn't cover the electronics because while you have motors and drives there are still other things like PSU's and relays, contactors, Fuses, etc which soon mount up.
Regards the design then I would go with a design something like what Kit suggested as it's a simple and proven design for a 3 axis machine for cutting woods and very light aluminum work.
To keep the costs down you don't need to use Aluminium for the ends and could use the profile you have already with feet to raise it up so you have clearance for gantry cross brace.
With this design and size, you will get away with a single screw, I've built dozens of machines that are similar size and design that used single screw without any issues.
Regards the Linear stage then I would sell it and build a stronger Z-axis. The unsupported rails are rubbish for a router but would be perfect for plasma so I would stick them on ebay and aim them at plasma builders by mentioning plasma in the description.
Hope this helps.
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi what size plate would I need for the sides of X and y axis also do you have any rough dimensions of the plate I would need just to give me a starting point to work out the bits I need please.
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
Hi what size plate would I need for the sides of X and y axis also do you have any rough dimensions of the plate I would need just to give me a starting point to work out the bits I need please.
Albert
Albert, this is why I said Step #1 is a plan. Do a accurate drawing of the machine and it will tell you all the sizes.
If using the design like picture Kit posted then 15mm plate as a minimum for the gantry sides. The height of the sides will depend on the clearance and Z travel you require, again drawing a plan of the machine will help with all this.
Don't be tempted to skip the steps or design on the fly as it's a recipe for failure and will cost you more money long term.
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi I am not very good at cad and have only used it a bit.
Will 2D drawings on paper and the photos be ok
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
Hi I am not very good at cad and have only used it a bit.
Will 2D drawings on paper and the photos be ok
Albert
Well, it would be good practice and you will need to learn a little CAD if you are going to use a CNC machine. But that said no you don't need CAD to build a machine and provided the paper version is scaled correctly then it won't be a problem.
All you need at a basic level is a layout drawing that is to scale to give you the dimensions and a general idea if everything will fit and work like you expect and give the travels your wanting.
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigal999
Hi I am not very good at cad and have only used it a bit.
Will 2D drawings on paper and the photos be ok
Albert
Albert: They will but then how are you going to do the cad to machine something later. learning cad will be a good thing.
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi I going to learn cad while I am building the machine what is the easiest cad package to learn
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Albert,
You'll probably get a dozen different answers to your question depending on what people are familiar with and that partly depends in which decade they first started using CAD themselves.
CAD is for drawing the object you want to make. You then need CAM (Computer Aided Machining) software for generating the G-Code that the machine will read in order to make the real object. The following packages include both elements.
The high-power budget option is Fusion 360 which is free for hobbyists to use but is a fully professional, up to date 3D package with all sorts of capabilities you would never have imagined wanting before. Some people find it easy to get on with, others find it over-complex for their needs. I would definitely recommend you try it out since there is nothing comparable in terms of capability or bang for buck. If you get on with it OK then I doubt there is any other better option for a budget-conscious amateur.
For several years I've been using CamBam. You have to pay a one-off fee for it but that gets you upgrades for life. This does not have the rendering, animation and other bells and whistles of F360 but is more of an old-fashioned (turn of the millennium) style 2D drawing package with CAM capability. The basic package can be greatly enhanced by adding a range of add-ons produced at no cost by the very capable and helpful user group on the software's forum.
Kit
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
I would say Fusion 360 is your best choice because it's free and fully capable professional program from a High end software company with both good CAD and CAM capability's. Yes it's a complex program with high-ish learning curve but it's massively covered with lots of tutorials online and users willing to help on forums etc.
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Hi downloading fusion 360 today will post soon how I get on. Would a build in 10mm X 100mm steel be strong enough if I get stuck on cost of aluminium there are plenty of cheap stick welders about.
Albert
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Re: Please help with this build Albert
Or would box section be better