I’ve seen your incredible machine and post. I don’t need to move.... as you said, my floor is not solid. That’s the issue.
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Fwiw..
Haas machines are all solid bolted to the floor via adjustable anchors.
Part of the included-in-cost installation is very precisely levelling the machine.
To within about 0.02 mm.
Everything flexes, and the modern machine beds or frames wont be straight unless they are mounted perfectly level. +/-.
And if they cut a part of max size, it wont be perfectly flat, straight, and level to within 0.02 mm guaranteed (which is not so accurate in fact).
A VM6 will cut a huge mold to within 0.02 mm, volumetric, mostly much better than 0.01 mm, no problem.
Linear scales, a 13.000€ option, wont make it any more accurate, but it will insure the client gets what they paid for.
My client was extremely happy, with the VM6 with scales, replacing a machine, chiron, that had been 4x more expensive in it´s time.
Making very very intricate 3d molds in steel, maybe 3000 kg each, that really needed to be accurate.
The molds cost about 250.000 € each, and need to have errors of no less than 0.04 mm, otherwise it shows in the final product.
A truck bumper might need upto 8 pieces with 8 molds.
I´m on the ethical edge with disclosure.
The general parameters above are known to anyone making molds industrially.
It´s not right to go into any more details -- most of which I don´t even know.
0.02 mm volumetrically is hard to do.
On a single axis, a short distance, it is trivial.
Anyone local cutting keys for locks does that.
The difference is about ...
2x-3x the distance, 3x, so 3x pwr 3 = 27,
times 3 axes, 81 times less rigid/accurate.
...which confirms my conclusions in this thread about permanently keeping a CNC on castors. Bolting may be necessary for that machine, and I am sure it is, but even for hobby machines, a solid base is necessary, even if not bolted, and that can not be provided if the machine is resting on rubber, silicon, or plastic wheels. They simply can never provide enough stability for the use case.
I just mean that in my experience, moving the machine may be necessary, if for nothing else, for cleaning behind, or when something is dropped which can't be reached otherwise. I think if a machine is bolted it should have enough space around it on all sides. Anyway, the concrete pads idea may be good, but it is a bigger job. I'd still start with the simpler thing first, and would remove the castors and let the machine rest on wooden blocks or a thick wooden plank, like a beam. Maybe that would distribute the forces more than enough and would still give you improvements and stability. As it is now, the actual surface your 400kg machine is resting on is extremely small and all that mass plus the extra force generated by the movements is transferred to the floor through that small surface contact. If you increase the surface which is touching the floor you distribute the forces in a better way. But of course, you will get the best stability of you bolt it to the concrete pads, so if you KNOW you never need to move it, then it is a good idea in my opinion.
Worth the wait. What size have you gone for?
Oh yeah, one up manship! Mine is a mere 600x900. Dean can I order a 1201x1201?!
Here are a couple more bits and bobs I’ve racked up in the last week. Still honing skills but learning all the time. Even went barmy and spent £20 on a proper make bit instead of my Banggood specials! Now that I do not want to break!
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I could rack up a tutorial but couldn’t really claim it’s my idea. I’m a YouTube cnc expert! I basically watch more knowledgeable people do things and then bastardise it to do my thing.
I think that describes most of us. So who's existing online stuff would you recommend for providing the 'Instant Genius' effect?
I see you use Vectric which I think is seen as the go-to package for this kind of work. Fortunately the Men's Shed in my new home town decided to buy Vectric Pro to go with their newly aquired router so I have access to it if I borrow one of their laptops.
Kit
Well, the stuff I like...... I suppose the king of it from what I’ve seen on youtube is broinwood. This little video sparked my interest in cnc. I’m still trying to work out his settings for the super fine detail. Half of me wonders if it’s his wood choice. American black walnut with maple. I believe these are much tighter grained than the cheaper woods I use making a better cut. But wood here in the uk is super expensive. I recon that amount of ABW and maple would cost me nearly £200! As a newbie I can’t make a mistake on that so shan’t be blowing that cash. Plus if I were to be spending that money I’d want a pretty penny for the result. Broinwood has a huge audience and could sell these for £750 all day long. I don’t.
https://youtu.be/w51KsS7slmk
Thanks for that youtube recommendation, I had not seen him before. The guy I had seen doing this on youtube is mtmwood.
https://youtube.com/c/mtmwood.
Did you catch where he states that such a chopping board takes him 3weeks if he isn't working on anything else! So £750 is pretty cheap. You are right that the right timber is important and not cheap.....untill you start charging for your time, which then quickly swamps the material costs!
Patience is not one of my virtues! But I’m currently trying some other things to expand my knowledge and experience. Just over a month in now and think I’ve got to know the machine pretty well although I feel I’m using it to just a fraction of its ability. Want to try some parametric furniture next. Then who knows what. Need to find some more you tubers to inspire me!
Well I've joined the club, collecting my JAZZCNC JZR9060 at the weekend. Dean and son Jarad were so generous with their time running me through all the basic processes to get 'the beast' to dance to my will before sending me on my way with it wedged in the back of my car.
Immensely impressed with the engineering of these machines, it is built to do the job intended but as a result is no lightweight. Glad after suggestions earlier in this thread I had abandoned the idea of casters, and built a robust stand.(tip 1).
Tip 2 for those of us who don't move machine tools about on a regular basis, an engine crane is what you need, so bother any home car mechanics you know or hire one. It even fitted in my small side shed, where by shear luck it's legs fitted between the legs of the stand for a graceful dismount. So much more sedate than trying to get four burley friends to bench press it up there!
So much to learn and master, but great to be moving from pipedreams to practical. Pilsbury's progress has been rather swan like, where as I expect mine will be duck like with more splashing about.
The good news is that Dean already has a second batch in the pipeline.....the bad news is that I believe almost half of them are spoken for already.
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Is it one of his vertical machines :highly_amused:
I think you will be very pleased with and have many happy years of fun with it. :congratulatory:
No problem, though perhaps you should make that one your last!:beer:
Short answer - Everything
Longer answer - the first aim is small wood item to use up my offcuts and learn. Then integrate it into my chair making, to both reduce my reliance on templates that are taking over my loft, cut precision joinery and add personalisation......and then who knows......
I thought you had longer to wait Andrew..... Glad to hear you have your machine on the way - we need to see some projects!
Well not quite ready to knock out an inlaid end grain chopping board! But got some time this weekend to try stuff out. Making simple small boxes to play about with feeds and speeds, climb vs conventional and tolerances on the lid fitting. Once sorted they take only 1.5min to knock out......the external clean up takes longer! Need a fixture so the machine can do that too I guess.Quote:
I thought you had longer to wait Andrew..... Glad to hear you have your machine on the way - we need to see some projects!
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Dust collection needs work...hose tie wrapped to spindle whilst I wait for dust boot to arrive.
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Nice little boxes! I made one early on and it’s amazing to see how the cnc just churns it out perfect. Imagine trying to carve that! And I like your articulated dust collection bracket. Dust boots are a must. I’m already envious - Stupidly went for 68mm downpipe where my dust extractor takes 100mm so my flow is restricted. Should have done what you did with drainage pipe to maintain the size. I recon my dust collection gets 99% of the chips. Only realise how necessary it is when I forget to turn it on.
Yes there is nothing like skimming your MDF spoil board level to learn the importance of dust collection! And yes that 68mm pipe will be killing your air flows. Presume you have a vacuum cleaner style HPLV collector, as for HVLP like mine 100mm is about the minimum.... personally can't stand the noise of a vacuum cleaner for long, especially when the machine is so quiet!
Hplv, hvlp..... not sure. A record power twin motor jobbie, but yes, more like a large vacuum cleaner rather than those chip collector things.
As for machine being quiet, sure is. However my longer bits make a hell of a noise. I bought a 6mm compression EM with a 40mm cut capacity. Screams like hell even in softwood. No amount of spindle speed and feedrate fettling will stop it.
Just thought I’d share another different thing I’ve just tried out. Turned out pretty well. Going to move on to carving now. Seems there’s lots to take in to get a good result. Think it’s called 2.5D opposed to 3D? Ball nose end mills on order!
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Very clever! Is that layered construction your own idea or do you have a link to a source of other similar designs?
Kit
Purchased file for a couple of quid. Just that letter as a test. PM sent.
I know I’m double posting this carving (already in the tooling section) but I thought I’d share it again in this post to keep my first efforts together.
Here is my first test carving, ready to try a bigger version in the near future. I recon if I hit a 500x800 piece it would take near 24 hours. Time to get a camp bed in the workshop!
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Looks good Mark, for the long job's If you don't want to run for long periods you have a couple of options.
#1 Put the machine into "feed hold" turn the spindle off and leave the PC switched on overnight. Just remember to switch the spindle back on before resuming from "feed hold"
#2 Put into feed hold, take a note of line number then you can shut down PC and do a "Run from here" when you restart. The work offset will automatically be saved by UCCNC and after homing the machine the "run from here " will get you back into position.
In both cases, it's a good idea to "feed hold" when the code is doing move off the material ie: G0 move. This way it won't leave a tool mark on the material when the spindle starts back up. However, if you can't catch it in a G0 move then do it in an area where it's easily sanded or won't show.
It's also a good idea to do the "run from here" a few lines back from the actual line number it stopped on, this way it will help blend in any tool marks.
My preferred option would be "run from here" because you can spread large jobs over a few days and it's a lot less stress on the machine, spindle, tooling, dust extractor and PC.
Cheers for that Dean. I’ve used feed hold several times so far, mainly when I’ve spotted my hold down clamping is not great so I can tighten up.
I also like your advice on not leaving the machine alone overnight. Apart from it getting lonely, I can see the issues if the pc has a hissy fit and stops sending code with the spindle still moving at 20,000rpm.
Perhaps a multi day cut is the way forward.
Yes it's handy but "run from here" is a job saver when a tool breaks or shit hits the fan or clamps, and very handy for long jobs which you want to break down into parts over a few sessions. Something worth playing with as it's very handy.
To be honest NO router that is cutting flammable materials like wood should ever be left unattended for any lengthy periods. I know of several people who have set fire to machines and workshops and in one case lost his house because the router was left alone while he went out. Because the machine was in the garage adjoined to the house and he hadn't told the insurance they wouldn't payout.!
Shit always happens when your not watching and a spindle whizzing around at 24000rpm rubbing on wood makes a great fire starter.:cower: