Dyson Digital Motor (Vacuum Cleaners)

[bogflap]

Just seen adverts for the latest Dyson vacuum cleaner. Claims to use a motor that spins at an rpm of 100k. This seems like an ideal motor for powering a routing spindle for isolation routing of pcb's. I am starting this thread simply to invite comments about the motor as and when they become available. Or maybe I am hoping that someone out there will get hold of one, take it to pieces and let us all know what it looks like from the inside. Also does it live up to the rotational claims?, what bearings does it use?, how easy is it to mount in a diy build, ...

[John S]

Only thing I can see with this is it's going to be a largish motor to run an engraving spindle.
There have been great strides made lately in the small motors in respect to RC aircraft.

Have you looked at some of these options ?

[Gary]

These motors are not designed to have any radial or actual loads, and if they are like motors that i have seen from other manufactures, they dont have a shaft that you can use to connect your tool to.

Just seen adverts for the latest Dyson vacuum cleaner. Claims to use a motor that spins at an rpm of 100k. This seems like an ideal motor for powering a routing spindle for isolation routing of pcb's. I am starting this thread simply to invite comments about the motor as and when they become available. Or maybe I am hoping that someone out there will get hold of one, take it to pieces and let us all know what it looks like from the inside. Also does it live up to the rotational claims?, what bearings does it use?, how easy is it to mount in a diy build, ...

[BillTodd]

I suspect that the main disadvantages of using this motor (i.e. bought as a spare part from Dyson) would be the difficulty of driving another spindle without buggering-up the dyson bearings and the very limited starting torque produced by this type of motor; It looks to me to be a single phase variable reluctance motor [edit - It's not it's just a brushless DC motor - I missed the bit about the neodyium magnet]. The start routine will be a hit & miss process i.e. apply a pulse, detect movement, test if it's spinning it the desired direction - correct if necessary with next pulse, then sync the pulses etc.

If you attach a spindle, the extra drag of AC bearing (for instance) might prevent the motor from starting at all.

From Dyson's POV the main advantage must be manufacturing cost (although their plant looks more like a small volume operation than a proper production line - I love the robot arm coil winder :))

I suspect you'd be better of sticking with a poly-phase permanent magnet motor as used in model aircraft (I've seen 1kW motors for ~£30, and 12v controllers for them aren't much more)

[bogflap]

My current thinking on this is

1) The Dyson gizomos are hand held so I am presuming that the motor is not that big, ok so biggish compared to a RC aircraft motor

2) Looking at the complete setup required for an RC aircraft motor; an ESC (Electronic speed Control) is required; a PSU (Power Supply Unit) is required that is very none standard, last time I investigated I assumed that LiPo voltages (7.2 volt?) were required at a some enormous currents (60amps?)

3) Taking into account above then cost wise the Dyson looks relatively cheap

4) Taking into account the above maybe that motor may not be so large

Only thing I can see with this is it's going to be a largish motor to run an engraving spindle.
There have been great strides made lately in the small motors in respect to RC aircraft.

Have you looked at some of these options ?

[bogflap]

Basically pcb isolation routing is going about about 2mil deep into what is basically GRP (Glass Reinforced Plastic) or resin. The radial and axial forces are minimal/very small. Oh and plus about 35micron of copper. Forces are small, speed is the must. If the bearings can hold up blowing air in a residential environment with what, at least a years warranty, then they stand a chance with isolation routing that requires short of nothing by the way of radial/axial forces.

I have no associations with Dyson nor wish any. Fast and cheap is what I am looking for.

These motors are not designed to have any radial or actual loads, and if they are like motors that i have seen from other manufactures, they dont have a shaft that you can use to connect your tool to.

[bogflap]

I agree. That robot arm is something else.

I suspect that the main disadvantages of using this motor (i.e. bought as a spare part from Dyson) would be the difficulty of driving another spindle without buggering-up the dyson bearings and the very limited starting torque produced by this type of motor; It looks to me to be a single phase variable reluctance motor [edit - It's not it's just a brushless DC motor - I missed the bit about the neodyium magnet]. The start routine will be a hit & miss process i.e. apply a pulse, detect movement, test if it's spinning it the desired direction - correct if necessary with next pulse, then sync the pulses etc.

If you attach a spindle, the extra drag of AC bearing (for instance) might prevent the motor from starting at all.

From Dyson's POV the main advantage must be manufacturing cost (although their plant looks more like a small volume operation than a proper production line - I love the robot arm coil winder :))

I suspect you'd be better of sticking with a poly-phase permanent magnet motor as used in model aircraft (I've seen 1kW motors for ~£30, and 12v controllers for them aren't much more)

[Phil Gravett]

Why don't you router guys use comp air drives ? With the Desouter one I had which was very light, you could with a 1/8th carbide burr hold a piece of mild steel in one hand and cut through it. The exaust whilst a bit noisy could be used to blow swarf away. Phil. :idea:

[templecorran]

I had the main bearing on my router burn out (literally) after about 100 hours running. So my point is that the duty cycle for the Dyson may be short. How long does your PCB 'etching' typically take to run? I realise it depends on the amount of material to be removed. Compare that to the time it takes to vacuum the floors that the Dyson is designed for.

[John S]

What CFM compressor is required? most DIY "Router guys" wont have the luxury of a 200ltr receiver and 18CFM hydrovane units....Not to mention sympathetic neighbours :naughty: :idea:

My hydrovane is only 10 CFM

Mind you I do have two of them