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  1. #1
    Hello all, another basic question here from myself!

    I've managed to 'acquire' a spindle. very similar to this for nothing:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC12-48V-Air-Cooled-0-4KW-Spindle-Motor-400W-ER11-for-Engraving-Milling-Machine-/252413006441hash=item3ac4fcd269:g:a6EAAOSwEgVWTYBS

    Now i know these are very underpowered and probably pretty useless for most work, but i currently don't have a spindle at all and my machine is just sitting there making nothing at the moment and i really want to start making chips! even if they are only small ones lol.

    i'm only going to be cutting wood so i don't mind using a small spindle just for now until i can upgrade.

    my question is though what kind of speed controller do i need? or do i need an inverter/vfd? if it is the latter am i just better off buying a new spindle/vfd together like this one?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5KW-AIR-...YAAOSwAPlXhcvh

    apologies for sounding dumb, but i'm rubbish with electronics lol.

    i have the leadshine mx3660 breakout/driver board so if possible it would be nice to be able to switch the spindle on and control the speed through that. im using linuxcnc.

    thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Hi Thomas,

    I think when all said and done these motors/spindles are just a typical DC motor, so you can just give them 12-48v and your away.

    I would imagine then that you can just vary the voltage supplied, to control the speed, you may be able to do this with a controller depending on what you've got, however it may just be better to get/use a standard type potentiometer where you control the speed manually.

    I say the above because to be honest I wouldn't bother to invest any time or energy in one of those spindles, they work yes (they hold a cutter and spin) but their not really up to much at all, not sure if you've noticed or not but they are fitted with an ER11 collet, that's going to limit you to very small cutters for a start.

    If your looking to fit it to one of these £4-500 Chinese machines, then yeah pop it on the machine and crack on making dust as you've nothing to lose.

    If it's going on a machine that is much more capable then that is when I would say don't bother, the machine will be capable of more than the spindle will like and you'll just kill it or be limiting yourself/machine, it will just end up being a false economy is what I mean to say.

    If you consider what is involved with adding a spindle to a machine (properly), it would be a much better investment of everything to use a more worthy spindle to start with.

    The best price I can find a 2.2k water cooled spindle and vfd for is £180, they've sold lots, comes with a 2 year warranty but more attractive is the quote of 4 quality bearings in the spindle:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170746857178

    I haven't ordered from them yet but I will be soon and I'm pretty positive that's who I will buy from, they do have negative feedback but I couldn't find any that related to this item.

    As I said these spindles do work, here is a video of one actually cutting something:

    https://youtu.be/6v534cJNzrU

    .Me
    Last edited by Lee Roberts; 23-07-2016 at 05:05 PM.
    .Me

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Roberts View Post
    Hi Thomas,

    I think when all said and done these motors/spindles are just a typical DC motor, so you can just give them 12-48v and your away.

    I would imagine then that you can just vary the voltage supplied, to control the speed, you may be able to do this with a controller depending on what you've got, however it may just be better to get/use a standard type potentiometer where you control the speed manually.

    I say the above because to be honest I wouldn't bother to invest any time or energy in one of those spindles, they work yes (they hold a cutter and spin) but their not really up to much at all, not sure if you've noticed or not but they are fitted with an ER11 collet, that's going to limit you to very small cutters for a start.

    If your looking to fit it to one of these £4-500 Chinese machines, then yeah pop it on the machine and crack on making dust as you've nothing to lose.

    If it's going on a machine that is much more capable then that is when I would say don't bother, the machine will be capable of more than the spindle will like and you'll just kill it or be limiting yourself/machine, it will just end up being a false economy is what I mean to say.

    If you consider what is involved with adding a spindle to a machine (properly), it would be a much better investment of everything to use a more worthy spindle to start with.

    The best price I can find a 2.2k water cooled spindle and vfd for is £180, they've sold lots, comes with a 2 year warranty but more attractive is the quote of 4 quality bearings in the spindle:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170746857178

    I haven't ordered from them yet but I will be soon and I'm pretty positive that's who I will buy from, they do have negative feedback but I couldn't find any that related to this item.

    As I said these spindles do work, here is a video of one actually cutting something:

    https://youtu.be/6v534cJNzrU

    .Me
    A PWM speed controller would be much better for a DC motor. You will struggle to find a resistor that is rated high enough wattage wise to limit the current. Also, reducing the voltageis not a good idea as it will shorten the life of the motor. You're on the right track though.

  4. #4
    Thomas If this is the build you are doing http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6832-...e-needed/page2 I would go with a Water cooled spindle as they are very quiet. The air cooled are noisy. As Lee has said the 1.5KW has an ER11 collet the 2.2Kw has the ER20 which would be better if you want to make a bigger machine in the future. You won't be happy with the DC after a few minuets . Good luck with the build.
    Last edited by Clive S; 23-07-2016 at 05:21 PM.
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

  5. #5
    Most of those little 400w "spindles" come with controllers that use a pot to control the speed. You should be able to use the PWM signal from Mach3 and convert it to a 0-5V signal to use in place of the pot.

    But really, you're better off buying a real spindle.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
    UCCNC 2022 Screenset

    Mach3 2010 Screenset

    JointCAM - CAM for Woodworking Joints

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Ger21 For This Useful Post:


  7. #6
    1hp spindles also work very good for small machines and cutters up to 8mm. Plus a brand 0.75kw VFD like Toshiba are around 110 euro only. Actually for a small machine not meant for production, i don't see a reason for a bigger spindle.

    Less than that i would not go.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  8. #7
    Yes Clive that is the machine it is for, it's been a long build but it will get finished one day lol! Family life takes over and it keeps having to be put on hold.

    I'll leave the 400w spindle then, I was expecting that answer tbh!

    I'll save up and get the water cooled spindle then, I will have to get some new brackets made to mount it tho so may take me a bit longer. I used to be a machinist in a heavy engineering workshop so had access to making pretty much anything I wanted back then, but now I'm in an office job I'm limited to asking my old work mates to make bits for me!

    Do you have a link to one of those spindles Boyan?

    Thanks for the advice everyone!

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by thomashomer1986 View Post

    Do you have a link to one of those spindles Boyan?
    0.8kw spindle, its ok to buy it together with the chinese VFD drive, which many people use. I use one for my 3kw spindle , price wise. But for smaller motors i personally use and prefer the Toshiba VFD


    With the correct cutter 0.8kw spindle does not have problem to go up to 1/4 deep in aluminum with 1/4 carbide bit, provided mist cooling
    Last edited by Boyan Silyavski; 25-07-2016 at 01:48 PM.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by thomashomer1986 View Post
    Hello all, another basic question here from myself!

    I've managed to 'acquire' a spindle. very similar to this for nothing:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC12-48V-Air-Cooled-0-4KW-Spindle-Motor-400W-ER11-for-Engraving-Milling-Machine-/252413006441hash=item3ac4fcd269:g:a6EAAOSwEgVWTYBS

    Now i know these are very underpowered and probably pretty useless for most work, but i currently don't have a spindle at all and my machine is just sitting there making nothing at the moment and i really want to start making chips! even if they are only small ones lol.

    i'm only going to be cutting wood so i don't mind using a small spindle just for now until i can upgrade.

    my question is though what kind of speed controller do i need?
    That spindle is just a simple DC motor, so almost any PWM controller can be used. If you want to control it from the CNC software then you need something similar to this:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-48V-...AAAOxypthRtpaL

    But if you just want manual speed control then you can also get a much simpler and cheaper one, like this:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-DC...gAAOSwOVpXcqnO

    On the other hand... I have a similar spindle and have speed control as well, but I almost always run the motor at full speed. The motor is pretty weak and by reducing the speed it gets even weaker. So, it depends what you want to do with your CNC, perhaps speed control is not necessary at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomashomer1986 View Post
    or do i need an inverter/vfd? if it is the latter am i just better off buying a new spindle/vfd together like this one?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5KW-AIR-...YAAOSwAPlXhcvh

    apologies for sounding dumb, but i'm rubbish with electronics lol.
    A VFD controlled brushless "real" spindle is of course much better than a DC motor, but probably not going to make life easier for you, unless you really need it. Maybe you could start with the simple DC motor and buy a VFD and a three phase motor at a later stage when you know what you really need or want or can afford. I bought a similar, 1.5kW air cooled spindle motor but I bought a better VFD, a Bosch Rexroth, because I wanted good service, support and documentation, as well as proper electrical design and safety. Buying a real brand makes it a bit more expensive though not a lot more, but the benefits are in my opinion many, so the extra cost is money well spent. I have not yet had time to install my spindle, still have the DC motor on the CNC, but have run it for test and all I can say is that for my needs and my environment it was the right decision to buy an air cooled spindle.

    Many people say that brushless air cooled spindles are noisy, and maybe they are noisier than water cooled ones, but definitely not noisier at the same speed as the DC motors, or brushed motors like the Kress. Air cooled motors are easier to handle as well, since you don't need to install water pipes, cooling fluid, pump and pump control. Never the less, of course, if you are going to use your CNC 8-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week then water cooled is worth the trouble, but again, even if you buy air cooled to start with, upgrading to water cooled once you realize you need it is pretty simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomashomer1986 View Post
    i have the leadshine mx3660 breakout/driver board so if possible it would be nice to be able to switch the spindle on and control the speed through that. im using linuxcnc.

    thanks in advance
    Sorry, I can't help you with LinuxCNC or the mx3660.

  11. #10
    even if you buy air cooled to start with, upgrading to water cooled once you realize you need it is pretty simple.
    What is the point in buying an air cooled THEN upgrading to water cooled when they can be had for the same price
    air cooled
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/18192...ype=pla&crdt=0

    water cooled
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/18175...ype=pla&crdt=0

    For the water cooled you will need a small pump £3 from eBay and a 2lr Tupperware container for the water. No contest.

    Be aware that both of the above only have ER11 collets
    Last edited by Clive S; 01-08-2016 at 02:52 PM.
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

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