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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    No it's the next upgrade to the dsv1.1 controller.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/EU-D...0-9d86512f92a2
    Interesting.

    When you lit it up did it have Rattm motor logo or the Digital Dream? I some how doubt that it's in fact an upgrade. More of a copy or rebranded. John,please take photos, you know how interest i am in that controller. And by the way many more people, as i constantly answer email about the youtube video.


    I think my agent have found the original manufacturer. According to her and another agent who did the same job, this is sth like a cooperation between 3 separate people or sth. So truth be told i could not achieve a great price from them, even after a week of juggling back and forth and pressing them with serious quantities quote. So for now best option is 160 euro from China. And i must say it - this is really a great price for what is offered here.

    Dean, you can criticise me if you want, but you can not persuade me not to say it "officially" : " This is the best bang for the buck from the time of introducing the water cooled spindle, so i highly recommend it" . Even if it breaks after an year, even if there is no support or no software adjustment to our desires.



    Anyway, as i said in the other thread is that the controller dealt without a problem with 280MB file, 10 000 000 line file. Plus it reads it from the USB even if the more expensive offline controllers still can not do that and have limit of memory and so of the file size as Dean pointed. It can home well, then fine home second time or even 5th time. Its good soft limit to be disabled, when homing as sometimes it will cause a problem if you homing speed is set high, it will bypass sensor and soft limits will stop the homing procedure.


    The only glitch i encountered was using cheap pen drive USB memory stick, every 15 min it will skip a step or 2. So use the original USB or some original USB for avoiding troubles. My advise is to use micro SD to USB adaopter, test the SD card on modern phone with 4k video, if it works, it will work on the controller also. Or buy from reputable seller.


    PS. Just to clear things up. I make no profit of that controller and may be will not make any in the near future. I just like it especially for the reason that it puts to shame almost everything in the mach3+BOB+PC combo. I was negotiating buying a batch of controllers with the idea of selling them in EU. Making some cash meanwhile bringing them here in EU so no taxes was not the main reason behind this.
    The main reason was that i wanted to make them more popular and by maintaining contact with manufacturer make the controller better suited to our needs and making a real well written manual. I see at least a couple of things that can and must be changed by simple re programming so the controller fits better to the needs of the community. Unfortunately at the moment i am not very tempted to continue this line as the makers of the controller are hard to reach and to deal with, the wholesale price of the controller is ridiculously near the 1 piece price and they are hiding their programmer and simply said they don't care about making it better. Until i can get a conversation with the programmer, i don't care much about that controller
    Even so, as i said it's a very good controller.
    Last edited by Boyan Silyavski; 22-10-2016 at 10:15 PM.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  2. #32
    Boyan,
    Will do but be either late tomorrow or Monday as dog and house sitting and the controller is at the other place.

    I just want these simple controllers to power first a couple of simple 3/4 axis desktop machines that would have gone onto Mach3 with a parallel port or USB card, - very simple.

    Secondly to convert 15 older Denfords and a couple of Boxford CNC training machines onto new controllers and electronics. If I had offered PC's and Mach they would not have accepted the job.

    I do also have one of the more expensive NEW990TD-b controllers which is earmarked for an Orac lathe conversion for me personally. We brought two into the country and one is already up and running on another Orac as shown in earlier video's.
    The reason for this one is it's the only controller that can thread out of the box.

    Forget Mach 3 and Mach 4 and CS Labs. Their controller can thread with Mach3 after a fashion but it's so slow and clunky. When asked about threading with Mach 4 they were totally non committal and said it it did get ported to Mach 4 it would probably work the same as in Mach 3. Plus it's expensive. No expense shouldn't be the be all and end all if it works but for threading it doesn't.

    I know we all have different goals. Dean wants high speed, large files for 3D work on routers, Me ? I want simple 3/4 axis on desktop mills and one lathe. High speed, large files do not come in my remit so we do have different goals.
    John S -

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post

    I know we all have different goals. Dean wants high speed, large files for 3D work on routers, Me ? I want simple 3/4 axis on desktop mills and one lathe. High speed, large files do not come in my remit so we do have different goals.
    My goal is also simple:

    Push the button, leave the machine work and and i watch TV or read a book meanwhile. Electricity stops? Push the button and continue. No PC, no Windows, no special x32 editions so LPT works, no special LPT cables and special PCI cards, no drivers, no special Mach tricks, no strange behaviour, no hidden costs... So in a way i put reliability first of all.






    Thanks for answering and helping here with information.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    Dean, you can criticise me if you want, but you can not persuade me not to say it "officially" : " This is the best bang for the buck from the time of introducing the water cooled spindle, so i highly recommend it" . Even if it breaks after an year, even if there is no support or no software adjustment to our desires.
    Boyan rest assured I certainly would criticise you if felt the need but I don't. You are doing a good job of showing the controller.
    However I do have my concerns and IMO you or anyone else known to me have not tested these for extended periods or stressed them enough to be highly recommending and calling them better than other setups.

    Like John says we all all have different needs and wants.?

    For instance I cannot say to my customers that this controller is the dogs danglers, however I'm not exactly sure how long it will last.? Could be hours could be years who knows.??
    Oh and if the USB stick gets lost it may or maynot work with the replacement you buy. . . . Oh ye and if there any glitches in the software well I'm afraid it's tuff luck because we can't update it. Infact we have no clue to who to ask for help.!!

    Thou on the good side it's cheap as chips.!! . . . Provided it doesn't break in first year. In which case I'll have to stand this anyway because the chinese warrenty is much use chocolate fireguard.

    CUSTOMER: . . What about the cost of down time.? . . .Oh well I'm afraid that's the price you pay with cheap as chips controller.!

    Now before you say this is hobby controller and not for professional machine you should consider that you have been comparing with and calling the high price of other controllers like CSLabs.!! . . There's reason they are Higher priced.?
    They are high quality units which don't fail without good reason.
    They can be repaired or replaced under warrenty.
    They do have support and backup.
    They have Firmware updates and we can talk to the programmers if required.

    Now get this.! . . .The majority of my customers or people I help are not Professional high earning business's.
    They are small cottage industry man or lass's in sheds who are hard working types of people that cannot afford to be fixing or replacing controllers 13mths after buying.
    Even at this lower slower level of business Down time is problem. They cannot afford to wait 2-3wks for replacement from china then pay me to travel several hundred miles to replace. Even if I kept replacements, which I would and do even with Cslabs, there is still certain amount of down time which at best could be 1 -3 days if I'm not busy.(Ahh I wished.!!)

    Even the wise Man in shed playing for fun doesn't want expense/down time and hassle that could or will at some stage I'm sure come from them.!! . . . . Which is exactly my point in that they haven't yet been tested enough for reliabilty, functionality or ruggedness. Well certainly not long enough to be called "The Best Bang for Buck" before knowing how long before the "Bang" turns into "Magic smoke".!!

    Come back in 2yrs time then tell me it's worked perfectly without any glitches and I'll be impressed. But until this as happened then don't try telling me they are "Best bang for Buck".

  5. #35
    Are these controllers CE marked? Can't see any mention of it on the listing, or a CE mark on any of the pictures.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by bikepete View Post
    Are these controllers CE marked? Can't see any mention of it on the listing, or a CE mark on any of the pictures.
    CE marking is a declaration of conformity only. Nothing more

    CE marking
    The letters ‘CE’ appear on many products traded on the extended Single Market in the European Economic Area (EEA). They signify that products sold in the EEA have been assessed to meet high safety, health, and environmental protection requirements. When you buy a new phone, a teddy bear, or a TV within the EEA, you can find the CE mark on them. CE marking also supports fair competition by holding all companies accountable to the same rules.



    By affixing the CE marking to a product, a manufacturer declares that the product meets all the legal requirements for CE marking and can be sold throughout the EEA. This also applies to products made in other countries that are sold in the EEA.
    There are two main benefits CE marking brings to businesses and consumers within the EEA:

    • Businesses know that products bearing the CE marking can be traded in the EEA without restrictions.
    • Consumers enjoy the same level of health, safety, and environmental protection throughout the entire EEA.

    CE marking is a part of the EU’s harmonisation legislation, which is mainly managed by Directorate-General for Internal market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs. The CE marking for Restriction of Hazardous Substances is managed by Directorate-General for Environment. Comprehensive guidance on the implementation of EU product rules can be found in the so-called Blue Guide.
    This website provides information for manufacturers, importers and distributors on their responsibilities when placing a product on the EEA market. It also informs consumers about the rights and benefits that CE marking brings them.
    If you’re looking for information on CE marking in your country, contact the Enterprise Europe Network or check the list of contact points in the EEA.
    How to reproduce the CE mark

    /growth/file/ce-markgif_ence-mark.gif





    Download image files:


    IMPORTANT NOTE:
    Not all products must have CE marking. It is compulsory only for most of the products covered by the New Approach Directives. It is forbidden to affix CE marking to other products.



    Please note that a CE marking does not indicate that a product have been approved as safe by the EU or by another authority. It does not indicate the origin of a product either.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  7. #37
    Also not a lawyer although most on the internet are BUT these could fall into the low voltage directive and be exempt ?
    John S -

  8. #38
    I've had some dealings with CE marking (via a completely different industry). As has been said it involves a declaration of conformity issued by the manuf or importer, but that really needs to be backed by technical documentation in case of challenge (the possibility is remote that this would occur, sure...).

    For sale within China there's clearly no need for any CE marking.

    But if the controller had been developed with the intention of export to EU markets, then the manufacturer would likely have designed it with that in mind (e.g. using lead free solder) and conducted the relevant tests (e.g. EMC) etc. to ensure that it will comply with the relevant EU directives.

    An importer (other than for personal use) can self-certify the DoC as you say (and must also place a CE mark on the product before placing it on the market in the EU), but they should have sound grounds for stating it complies with the relevant directives, and would need evidence of this compliance if ever challenged by the authorities.

    (Not an expert) but I think the controller in question falls under:

    - EMC Directive (electromagnetic interference)

    - RoHS (covers things like lead in solder)

    Just possibly the Machinery Directive if it controls safety logic e.g. e-stops.

    Also presumably the General Product Safety Directive if selling to end users. Not sure if that applies to B2B sales.

    I don't think it's affected by the Low Voltage Directive as despite the name that's for 50V AC or 75V DC upwards.

    For enthusiast importers supplying it for DIY shed use all this may not matter much, given it's a pretty low risk sort of item all in all.

    But if these were to be imported commercially by e.g. one of the main model engineering suppliers, they'd probably want to make sure it was all above board. And if the manufacturer can't provide the necessary evidence/assurances, that could prevent such suppliers taking it on. Which might keep sales numbers down and reduce the manufacturer's incentive to improve it...

    Re the larger £400ish jobbies - not looked too hard but didn't see anything on the web pages saying they are CE-ready & EMC/RoHS compliant either.

    None of this will stop me getting one (£140 job initially) when my machine eventually gets finished enough to be ready for it - am just waiting until the last possible moment before ordering to ensure I get the latest version.

    Cheers

    Pete
    Last edited by bikepete; 23-10-2016 at 01:45 PM.

  9. #39
    Dean is correct up to a point in that these controllers are still a work in progress and until they have some time under their belt there will be a question mark over them.
    This is the DDSCV controller I am talking about.
    This doesn't apply to the higher end one as GSK has been making these for about 8 odd years and they power the majority of Chinese CNC's used in China to product what we buy in the west and as such are proven.

    Now to muddy the waters further and this is the cheaper DSCV controller.
    Modern electronics are quite good these days. Take the average DRO reader. I have had DRO's for well over 20 years, had the odd scale go down mainly due to crap and age but NEVER had a read head go down and how many out there. ?

    They are powered by an ARM processor which is what is in the majority of mobile phones which have been made in the billions. In fact Intel and AMD have announced that this last batch of processors for PC's and laptops will be the last batch as both are moving over onto ARM processors as better and more powerful.

    From someone far more knowledgeable than me who has been inside one they are running Debian as an operating system so basically it Linux at the core of this and being open sourced means it can be hacked or modified.
    Whilst playing around with this Joules managed to wipe the operating system but as he'd backed the files up previously he was able to restore the OS. So that isn't the problem that Dean feels it is.

    As regards reliability I feel that isn't the problem that Dean feels it is. I am in exactly the same boat in the mill conversions I do but so far all my problems have been computer related, a few mach related but by far the most problems have been with third party controllers and breakout boards etc.

    Two trips to Hull to replace two blown up System 3 boards on separate occasions plus two drivers that took took out.
    Two trips to Darlington to replace Spindle 3 boards that didn't work right.
    One trip to Bristol for another breakout board problem and other trips for roughly the same problems.

    TBH I got real fed up of acting as unpaid R&D for certain manufacturers especially when they didn't listen to what the problem was and just ran out the same old "well we have sold 100's and you are the first person " etc, etc, yada, yada.

    Like most projects out of those 100, 90 are still on the bench as a work in progress. You test a job, cut sample parts etc, send it out and it doesn't work because one model HP computer cannot generate the charge pump signal.

    OK Deans customers are mom and pop operations and can't afford the downtime which I except but in a case such as this when I spec a job out, knowing that drivers are always the weak link once a system is up and working I cost a spare driver into the job and send it out with the job. It's all about piece of mind.

    In a case like this and when the Oxford jobs comes off then i will have costed a spare controller into the sum. At the most it's 15 to 20 wires to swap over. Even though about fitting them on plug in headers but 15 v 1 isn't good odds so they are skilled enough to swap one over inside 1/2 hour, no having to send spares or run 200 - 300 miles.

    I will have less components into the mix that at the moment when I'm shipping Mach3 with a computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, breakout board and possibly an external controller.

    Will it change overnight ? no it won't but change will come. I am good friends with Art Fenerty who wrote Mach 3, we talk for about an hour every couple of weeks on the phone. I have immense respect for Art and what he can do.

    Only last week he said that a problem had come up where W10 couldn't read one of the ocx files required by Mach3 as it was old technology and his concern was that up to W10 would be the end for Mach 3.

    Now we all know that older computers will be around for years but it proves that change will have to come about or more problems will surface as all computers are different.

    Dean has his concerns and is right to have them whilst he's supplying a service but not everyone can afford Deans services and anything that can simplify setting up the controller side of a CNC will help the hobby.

    For me on 3 / 4 axis mill I'm happy to take the chance, not a big outlay, in fact over a PC it's a saving on equipment and licenses and I can always go back if necessary.

    On lathe then for me only the NEW / GSK type £400 controller will work as no one has yet to show me anything that can thread correctly with the minimum of setting up and not having to rely on at least two vendors of hardware / software who most of the time don't talk to one another.
    John S -

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  11. #40
    Pete, Very grey area but controllers fall into the exempt area for lead free as they are controlling critical equipment unlike say a washing machine or radio.

    However I know what you are saying.

    Having had dealing with a few UK main model engineering suppliers I can't see any wanting to carry these units.
    For one the sale would be very low and for every sale make in the UK 3 would buy direct from China to escape the markup, taxes and VAT etc so there would be no reason to even look for a supplier in China.

    Both Zapp and Arceurotade have stopped selling ball screws as everyone is going direct and it won't end there.
    Arc is to stop selling drivers and steppers when the current stock has run out for the same reason.
    John S -

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