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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    WTF!!! . . . Who wants to feck about with all this shite when all you have to do is buy real controller that works and provides enough motor outputs to do the job correctly.! . . . Cum-on lets keep it real.!

    This particular controller lacks 4 Axis linear movement and shouldn't be bought for machine which requires it simple as that. If folks want to force into something it's not then more fool them.

    The rest of it's short cummings are yet to be found and may well be trivial who knows. But in my eyes not following strict protocols like Fanuc standard is putting it on very dodgy ground straight off the bat.!

    Surely the whole point offline controller is to limit hassle not introduce new ones which there is NO assitance or help from the only people who can fix the problem.!

    And Boyan you can't take out of the equation starting the PC because without the PC your bonkers method can not home.! . . So yes it's very much part the equation if the PC's not on when need to home and if you need it on to use the machine WTF the point of using Offline Controller.?
    (Please don't give me "reliabilty" has the reason because I've built more than my fair share of PC based systems that run without any issues and have been running perfectly fine for several years with thousands of hours cutting time under there belts.!)


    Cool down please. It works, it costs mere 150euro. That's it. Plus its 500kz and plus that its 4 axis. No PC.


    I start the pc cause i am lazy enough to adjust a hard stop and anyway my machine was prepared and designed for easy hardstop squaring. And anyways my pc is sitting there cause all my PC are connected so when i design the file on my main PC i go to garage and there load it to USB. So its always on, plus i have it already.


    If not happy then pay 300 for you loved CSMIO and move each axis separately. What? I forgot. It does not square long axis. What? if it drives 2 long motors on long axis you could not use it for A axis.. What? it can noth thread on 4rth axis.

    Like you said, going in circles. if you don't like it don't use it. No need to throw this down in a box. Put it on sale here and i guarantee you that you will sell it same day.



    I heard a lot of blah blah in this thread but let me tell you again something. My time is money. If your time is not. I have no time fiddling with crappy boards and software or windows, cause 500 pieces wait for me in the garage to be done, i have at least 5 serious projects that need my attention and so on... Only the time the controller saved me last 3 weeks by just pushing the start button and all work flawlessly, if i charge 20 euro per hour i have payed the controller already and again...


    And remember here what i say: You can not fight with Chinese industry. They will make a better controller, cheaper and so on. At one moment in time they will sell at least 1000:1 ratio to any other controller on market or software. So the only thing then will be that other maker pretend their stuff is better and better supported and so on. But in reality they will be losing the business.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  2. So you need a PC to home both sides? are you having laugh????
    If you are doing this just to home, then you may as well set the servo driver up to have second mode to jog in a direction from an input.
    Its quite simple if the servo driver supports it.

    However you are stuffed if you are using steppers, that most people will be on this controller.
    When i home my machine, i tell it to home and it homes, it homes using the index pulse, so i know it is very accurate, the way you are doing it is not accurate. So if your time does not cost you any money, and you dont mind the hassle or dont need accuracy, then fill your boots.
    However if i told a customer that is how he should home, the gantry, he would laugh at me.




    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    At the moment i move gantry to the end and hit limit switch. back off till LED lights. Then via PC and servo control software jog other motor to same position. 1 min job, if i dont count starting the PC .


    Till now no problem with driving 2 motors from one output even on long, fast and generally quite serious jobs. But now i agree here- that i can be sure only and if i test 100 controllers and they show same consistency. Soon will know as another one is on the way. tHhis time the 4 axis one.

    Another thing is that i have not seen a single person use its 4rth axis so its still a mystery there.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    However if i told a customer that is how he should home, the gantry, he would laugh at me.
    More importantly he'd walk away laughing in big rush to tell his mates.!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    Cool down please. It works, it costs mere 150euro. That's it. Plus its 500kz and plus that its 4 axis. No PC.
    Boyan in no way am I getting hot or botherd about this so I'm Cool buddy. Infact the irony of your homing routine made me laugh.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    I heard a lot of blah blah in this thread but let me tell you again something. My time is money. If your time is not. I have no time fiddling with crappy boards and software or windows, cause 500 pieces wait for me in the garage to be done, i have at least 5 serious projects that need my attention and so on... Only the time the controller saved me last 3 weeks by just pushing the start button and all work flawlessly, if i charge 20 euro per hour i have payed the controller already and again...
    Said this before and I'll say it again. " It's Poor Work Man that Blames is Tools".
    How the Hell do you think other people who are and have been using PC based Controllers make money.? And I'm not talking Mach3 I'm talking all PC based Controller/hardware.
    Do you think they would tolerate Down time or Crashes etc that you seem inflict upon your self. No Bloody way would they or should they.!

    Mach3/hardware combination alone as allowed 1000's Business's to work Flawlessly for years and earn Millions of $$$ do you think they would continue to buy Pc based controllers if they didn't.
    Yes PC's can have issues and Mach3/4 certainly as some issues but when properly combined they can and do work flawlessly. But Both have Massive support network for when they don't, so just about most issues which relate to THEM can be resolved.

    Now where it goes wrong is the "POOR WORKMAN" instantly blames the tool. Often it's Mach3 that gets slated first then he'll turn on the PC. 99% time it's his own tight fistedness or lazyness that's the real problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    If not happy then pay 300 for you loved CSMIO and move each axis separately. What? I forgot. It does not square long axis. What? if it drives 2 long motors on long axis you could not use it for A axis.. What? it can noth thread on 4rth axis.
    No I'd fit controller that was correct for the machine and not try to force controller to do job it was never built to do.
    The Cslabs Controller you refer to is the IP-M which I wouldn't and Don't fit to machines that require Slaved Motors. In this case I would either use different manufacturer or if the machine warrented it I'd fit the more expensive controller.

    Let me say it again so you and others understand me.! . . Or don't Missunderstand me.!!!

    I'm not saying Offline controllers are not good or welcome tool. They are and I'm sure will be the future.

    However these Cheaper end controllers clearly have some limitations and worse still at this time nobody really knows to what extent. So caution is needed by those on budgets or of less experience.
    It's this and in this particular case Boyan your premature hailing of these controllers as All singing and dancing "Must have" piece of hardware while at same time pathetic attempt at rubbishing other long standing proven hardware that makes my temp start to rise slightly.

    PC based controller/hardware like Mach3 will be around for many years to come in some form or other. Yes they will have to change because PC's are changing but they will follow and adapt. Yes they will become fewer because Offline or embedded controllers will take over for sure.

    Offline controllers will evolve and very quickly I believe become the default machine controller. I have known this for few years now and I'm still waiting for cost affective reliable full spec one to arrive but this one sadly isn't it.!! . . . .Yet.

    The lower priced Higher end offerings are better but for me personaly still don't have what I need in spec for the level of machine and people I provide to. The top end are out of reach on price.!

    PC based shouldn't be rubbished so quickly and at the moment to me they are still the only reliable solution with good back up and support that offers full CNC functionality without costing lot of money.

    Also remember you'll still be buying a PC because without it 99% of you can't run the machine.???? . . . . . The 1% who botherd to learn G-code could to some limited degree and the other 0.1% who learnt to advanced level could make do exactly what they wanted, eventually given enough time. Remember time is Money.!!

    Those who bought this controller couldn't however because it has no MDI or way to manually enter code.!

    The fact is PC's will be around or involved in CNC just for there Software capabiltys because without most of you are stuffed.!

    Now time really is money and I need to make some so off to make lovely chips late into the night.!! . . . Have nice day Boys. . .
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 06-11-2016 at 11:50 AM.

  4. #84
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Current Activity: Viewing NEW MEMBER: Introduction Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 574. Received thanks 80 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    I heard a lot of blah blah in this thread but let me tell you again something. My time is money. If your time is not. I have no time fiddling with crappy boards and software or windows,
    I set up my machine 7 years ago, and haven't touched it since.
    People like to complain about Windows, but Windows does not cause any problems with running CNC machines.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
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  6. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by magicniner View Post
    Quick reply is not seeing my space bar! ????

    What I was trying to post was, what if you used a high impedance input buffer circuit on all controller outputs to isolate them from the motor driver inputs with twin buffers on one output to run two drivers?

    - Nick
    My reason for posting this technical query was not to suggest that it was a solution to anything but to see if it obviated the issues to which you alluded, but which you were unwilling to define in a clear enough way that anyone reading the thread might glean or address their actual nature ;-)

    I was really hoping for an answer such as "that would work" or "that wouldn't work because...." but I'm feeling my way in the dark here due to the lack of technical background to the "timing differences" problem description, I mean I'm not daft but give us a clue! :D

    - Nick
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  7. #86
    I can see these controllers filling a niche market.
    They are going to appeal to the home build user with one of a couple of machines. Probably smaller machines that don't need the bumph of having a PC and monitor connected.

    As Jazz says you will still need a PC for doing programming but that doesn't have to be in the workshop.
    The PC could even be a Mac running Fusion 360 and in this case that computer won't run the machine anyway.

    As long as all you need is 3 + 1 axis, no slaved axis or provision for tool change then these will run fine. Especially if all you want to do is produce parts.

    Anything else then at the moment the PC is king but this will change as does most things. Speaking with Art Fenerty the other week he mentioned that there have been issues with Mach 3 running on later computers not being able to read some of the system files as late machines don't use these files and they don't bundle them with them.
    Not an insurmountable problem at the moment but it could be later on.

    Mach 4 is a work in progress and it makes me wonder if it will ever be a plug and play program given that it can't stand on it's own and requires a 3rd party controller to run and Brian has no control over these.

    Because my current area of interest is lathes and threading at the moment I have done a lot of research. With mach 3 CS Labs can thread, it's the only one that can but the thread always has a big run off groove which on small threads is not acceptable. They say Mach 4 if they do a plug in will be the same.

    Mach 4 can now thread with the Pokeys 57CNC and Dan Maulch over in the States has literally spent 6 months of his life getting it to run. Why ?

    Why hasn't this been done by Mach4 working with Pokeys and released by them?

    This was one reason I went with the NEW990TD-b because it can thread straight out the box and was the best option for me.

    Note the ME bit because we all have different agenda's.

    There isn't one controller option out there be it PC or stand alone that ticks all the boxes. Eaach has it's own niche market and you have to look and see what you want and what's available.

    These DSCV controller are cheap and they will fill a gap in the cheap end of the market, it's that simple but they won't do everything and if you can accept that and live with it then I can't see any problems.
    John S -

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  9. #87
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Current Activity: Viewing NEW MEMBER: Introduction Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 574. Received thanks 80 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    Mach 4 can now thread with the Pokeys 57CNC and Dan Mauch over in the States has literally spent 6 months of his life getting it to run. Why ?

    Why hasn't this been done by Mach4 working with Pokeys and released by them?
    I seriously doubt that Mach4 will be anywhere nearly as successful as Mach3 was. I don't think that Brian really knows what his customers needs are.
    I bought a license two years ago, but haven't downloaded any updates in over a year. I've given up on it, after waiting over 5 years.
    It's still far from finished, riddled with bugs, and dependent on 3rd parties, some of which don't exactly have a good track record.
    Brian likes to say that he's been making parts with Mach4 for years, but the reality is that it's not usable for most, even after all this time.
    It's also incredibly complex to setup and customize, which imo will be a support nightmare for them.
    As of right now, it seems like most of their customers are beginners, who have never used Mach3, but by Mach4 because it's Mach3's replacement, so it must be better, right ?

    Yes, I agree, that these controllers are great for people with low budgets, and basic needs.

    But sorely lacking if you want to do any type of customization.

    My eggs are now all in the UCCNC basket.
    Developers that listen to their users.
    Constant updates, quick bug fixes.
    Nearly as flexible as Mach3, and getting better all the time.
    Better motion than Mach3, especially at higher speeds.
    The downsides?
    No lathe support at this time.
    No "Industrial" controllers, but is that really necessary? They were working on one a while ago, but put it on hold due to time constraints. Hopefully it will re-appear at some time.
    http://www.forum.cncdrive.com/viewto...=2&t=169#p1039
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
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    JointCAM - CAM for Woodworking Joints

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  11. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Ger21 View Post
    I don't think that Brian really knows what his customers needs are.
    It's a classic case of buying a company that could make you a fortune and killing support for your best product before you have anything new, that isn't broken, to sell.

    He could make a really good start with a fully functional 4-axis product in exchange for a license fee rather than his current Subscription Vapourware Beta Testing Scheme :D

    Brian has lost my custom, I bought Mach3 but won't be buying Mach4.

    The price for a commercial Mach4 license plus a good motion controller gets close enough to a commercial grade stand-alone controller from China that the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!

    - Nick
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  12. #89
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Current Activity: Viewing NEW MEMBER: Introduction Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 574. Received thanks 80 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!
    Yes, Imo, most people using (or attempting to use) Mach4 are not Mach3 users, but people that know Mach3 was used by everyone, and think that Mach4 must be better.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
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  13. #90
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,074. Received thanks 232 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by magicniner View Post
    The price for a commercial Mach4 license plus a good motion controller gets close enough to a commercial grade stand-alone controller from China that the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!
    But what support do you get with the Chinese controller?
    .
    I can kind of understand the direction Brian has taken NFS/Mach4.
    Mach3 was ultimately developed by a hobbyist, for hobbyists, but it grew far bigger than anybody imagined, and was used for things Art has even admitted, he never even thought it would.
    Brian on the other hand knows the potential of the industrial market, and he is providing that market what they want. A highly customisable solution with full support. In doing so I think it's fair to say he hasn't given the hobbyist market as much support as he could have.
    Mach 4 is a better product than Mach 3, however it doesn't have anywhere near the same community or vendor support, and there are lots of other options available now that simply weren't when Mach 3 was the defacto hobbyist option.
    Certainly now that KMotionCNC has a screen editor, I don't see me switching to Mach 4, but I'll still keep running my little probing machine on Mach 3, just for the Probe-It probing plugin.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

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