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  1. #41
    My advise is don't buy any of that lot from Automation or Kelling cnc as it used to be known.? You'll be paying far more than need to for only average components. (the fact your looking here makes me suspect you've been around our american cousins on cnczone.?)

    First the Drives are just rebadged cheap chinese drives and for less money you could by Leadshine drives that are much better and higher voltage. Like AM882 or EM806.
    Also take note you keep showing links for drives that are only capable of 50Vdc max. Even the higher 8056D can only handle 70Vdc Max which means allowing for safety factor you'll need to run them around 60Vdc.

    The PSU is fine (except it's too large for those drives) but you could easily build the same thing for half the price. Very easy to build as many on here will tell you.

    The motors are ok but do you really need 34's.? What size machine is it.?

    Regards the 24Vdc and noise(EMF) then this is mostly for control circuits. The CSlabs only works with 24Vdc so you'll still need 24 supply but only small 2-3A switch mode affair for e-stop, limits etc.
    The higher voltage lowers the chance of EMF affecting signal lines and when used with correct shielded cable you'll have very stable system. Coupled with high quality of Cslabs controller you'll be very noise immune.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 04-10-2016 at 04:26 PM.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to JAZZCNC For This Useful Post:


  3. #42
    Thanx Jazzcnc for advice and comments :-)
    And yes, i am a member of CncZone as well. There are some Norwegian members there, and i like to hear all those different opinions ;-)
    .
    Ok, it seems i was a bit offline when i replyed to the thread. Mentioned KL-8056D but provided a link to KL-5056D.
    I did send Automation a mail last night asking why the they list KL-8056D for "up to +7Vdc", when the datasheet say +20 to +80Vdc.
    If what i have read around is correct, the KL-8056D is a re-badged Leadshine DM870. And Leadshine says +20 to +72Vdc in their datasheet(found that out today)
    Dissapointing and very confusing, but this fact eliminates the KL-8056D.
    -
    Tried to find a price for the AM882 and EM806 and they don`t come cheap. Found some new AM882 at a reasonable price though and may decide on them.
    What about the MA860H? Does anybody have any experience with the MA860H ?
    Leadshine datasheet says input voltage of max 80Vac or +110Vdc, 7,2A. Price 58,88 on steppers-online.
    .
    I do have a lot of experience with PSU(both switched and lineary) Jazzcnc, and having a larger than necessary PSU only ensure less voltage drop at high loads.
    Besides i want to have enough for the 4th axis.(might even put in the 5th axis in time if i get if i get excessively geeky ).
    And beleive me Jazzcnc, i have searched the entire Norweginan marked for parts to build it my self. That will cost me twice as much.
    .
    The reason for me choosing Nema34 motors is only because it has Nema34 motors originally. (Lacy me, don`t have to manufacture new mounting brackets)
    .
    Final thoughts with renewed thanx to good advice from Jazzcnc:
    Stepper drivers.
    AM882 or MA860H(Havent decided yet.
    http://www.leadshine.com/productdeta...AM&model=AM882
    http://www.leadshine.com/productdeta...M&model=MA860H
    Stepper motors.
    KL34H280-45-4A or 34HS38-3008S(Havent decided yet, and yes).
    http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...otor-640-oz-in
    http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nem...008s-p-32.html
    .
    Motion COntroller and PSU will still be CSMIO/IP-S and KL-7220.
    .
    I do beleive this should summarize a good setup, unless there is something i don`t see(again)
    .
    And again, thanx for advice and comments gents

  4. #43
    Ok first lets drop the Jazzcnc just call me Dean others do and I don't mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
    Thanx Jazzcnc for advice and comments :-)
    And yes, i am a member of CncZone as well. There are some Norwegian members there, and i like to hear all those different opinions ;-)
    Nothing wrong with the Zone just little unwieldy and state biased.!
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
    I did send Automation a mail last night asking why the they list KL-8056D for "up to +7Vdc", when the datasheet say +20 to +80Vdc.
    If what i have read around is correct, the KL-8056D is a re-badged Leadshine DM870. And Leadshine says +20 to +72Vdc in their datasheet(found that out today)
    Dissapointing and very confusing, but this fact eliminates the KL-8056D.
    Exactly why shouldn't rush onto buying before doing the home work. Very easy to buy wrong stuff.
    -
    Quote Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
    What about the MA860H? Does anybody have any experience with the MA860H ?
    Leadshine datasheet says input voltage of max 80Vac or +110Vdc, 7,2A. Price 58,88 on steppers-online.
    These are Analog drives not digital. Analog is Old tech best avoided and don't compare to good digital drive.

    If you want AC Digital drives then there's model AM882-H
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
    I do have a lot of experience with PSU(both switched and lineary) Jazzcnc, and having a larger than necessary PSU only ensure less voltage drop at high loads.
    Besides i want to have enough for the 4th axis.(might even put in the 5th axis in time if i get if i get excessively geeky ).
    And beleive me Jazzcnc, i have searched the entire Norweginan marked for parts to build it my self. That will cost me twice as much.
    You can't have voltage higher than than drives Max else you'll blow the drives up. infact you don't want the voltage near the drives Max you want it approx 10% less.
    Now Current is different matter and I was talking about voltage.!

    I'm very surprised you can't find toridal Transformer and 3 x capacitors cheaper than $200.!!
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
    The reason for me choosing Nema34 motors is only because it has Nema34 motors originally. (Lacy me, don`t have to manufacture new mounting brackets)
    No better reason required.!
    .
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 06-10-2016 at 05:24 PM.

  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Ok first lets drop the Jazzcnc just call me Dean others do and I don't mind.

    Ok Dean :-)
    .

    Nothing wrong with the Zone just little unwieldy and state biased.!
    .
    Will not contradict you on that
    .

    Exactly why shouldn't rush onto buying before doing the home work. Very easy to buy wrong stuff.
    -
    No, i usually dont rush. In fact i spend a lot of hours on net trying to most cost effective solution.
    (Ok, that is when I do not get too excited and impatient )
    .

    These are Analog drives not digital. Analog is Old tech best avoided and don't compare to good digital drive.

    If you want AC Digital drives then there's model AM882-H
    .
    I bought some Leadshine AM882 Digital Drives on eBay today. AND I`m very satified and can`t wait to get them in here.
    .

    You can't have voltage higher than than drives Max else you'll blow the drives up. infact you don't want the voltage near the drives Max you want it approx 10% less.
    Now Current is different matter and I was talking about voltage.!
    .
    I guess i misunderstood i that case, cause i thought you refered to the current.
    Well, looking at the purchase order today, i made a final descision on the 60V/20A Linear PSU.
    I think that will do the job since i`m not going for any monstrous speeds on this mill.
    I calculated speed to approx 10.8 rev/sec based on the KL34H280-45-8A motor with 60V, 6.3A(Parallel) and 2.2mH phase inductance.
    If i should choose to wire the motor i series i will get approx 5.33 Revs/sec at 60V, 3.2Amps and 8.8mH.
    Not sure what the leadscrew ratio is though(dont remember the inch/turn), but i think both is sufficient for my use.
    .

    I'm very surprised you can't find toridal Transformer and 3 x capacitors cheaper than $200.!!
    .
    Nope.. When CNC stuff and Electronics find it`s way to Norway, some People and Companies tends to think this is gold

    No better reason required.!
    .
    .
    Will be setting up a multichannel(24) National Instruments DAQ/ADC system analyzing the signals when i run the tool change.
    That should give me a "time map" for all signals initiated with mS or even uS timing, and compare it to the schematics of the system.
    Which again would give me insight to compare it to all the options with the CSMIO/IP-S unit.
    Talked to Rob(The Engine Guy) at the Zone who bought a VMC300, and the guy owning it before him used a Koyo Direct Logic PLC to program and run the ATC.
    That makes me wonder if i shouldn`t be able to do the same with the CSMIO/IP-S. And even with Mach compatibility.
    Will start to tear down all the old electronics after taht, prepping the VMC for new shiny parts. Can`t wait :-)
    Last edited by Proteus; 06-10-2016 at 08:13 PM.

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
    .

    Talked to Rob(The Engine Guy) at the Zone who bought a VMC300, and the guy owning it before him used a Koyo Direct Logic PLC to program and run the ATC.

    How will that work? Program the PLC hardware so -pause, it does its job and then program continues?
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    How will that work? Program the PLC hardware so -pause, it does its job and then program continues?
    Yes works exactly like this.

    M6 in G-code tells mach to turn on output #? and wait until input #? goes high or low then carry on with Job. The PLC is programmed to do the tool change when it sees Mach's output on it's input. Then when finished turn on it's Output which mach see's on it's Input. The shows goes on.!

    Common for ATC's to use PLC for tool change. That said for ATC's which don't require massive amounts of I/O Macro works just as well. The Cslabs as plenty of I/O and don't think this ATC needs lots of I/O so don't see the point my self.

    I think the guy who used the PLC will have done so because he didn't have enough I/O. This is one reason why the Cslabs are so good for retrofits because they come with plenty of I/O and can easily be increased without costing the earth.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 06-10-2016 at 08:45 PM.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
    .
    Will be setting up a multichannel(24) National Instruments DAQ/ADC system analyzing the signals when i run the tool change.
    That should give me a "time map" for all signals initiated with mS or even uS timing, and compare it to the schematics of the system.
    Which again would give me insight to compare it to all the options with the CSMIO/IP-S unit.
    Talked to Rob(The Engine Guy) at the Zone who bought a VMC300, and the guy owning it before him used a Koyo Direct Logic PLC to program and run the ATC.
    That makes me wonder if i shouldn`t be able to do the same with the CSMIO/IP-S. And even with Mach compatibility.
    Will start to tear down all the old electronics after taht, prepping the VMC for new shiny parts. Can`t wait :-)
    I've been on this site for 4+ years now and that post means jack all to me!!! Going back to a conversation a few posts back - help from people on this site has been invaluable, do your homework and ask lots of questions before spending your money! Also if you are planning on buying an csmio ips - twinning it with some lame analogue drives which were outmoded 5 years ago seems mad for the sake of ~ 50 more for em806
    Last edited by JoeHarris; 06-10-2016 at 09:59 PM.

  9. Also, my experience of buying from China has been pretty good so far too. Like anywhere there are good and bad sellers.

  10. #49
    Can't say i understood that comment JoeHarris.
    Just trying to figure out the ATC myself. I had a lot of help with some of my questions in this forum, but as a newbie i feel like understanding the functions myself as well.

    Besides, if you read my post to Dean you would know i bought the AM882 ;-)
    Last edited by Proteus; 06-10-2016 at 10:39 PM.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
    Can't say i understood that comment JoeHarris.
    Just trying to figure out the ATC myself. I had a lot of help with some of my questions in this forum, but as a newbie i feel like understanding the functions myself as well.

    Besides, if you read my post to Dean you would know i bought the AM882 ;-)
    It was only a comment on my ignorance! Good choice on the drive btw

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