Thread: Project Beaver

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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Let me just point something out that is easy trap to fall into and one that Joe has made which I hadn't spotted until now.? (Sorry Joe just seen your Video using drill, well done on first movement.)

    You need to leave access to the bearing bolts so the gantry can easily be squared to the linear rails. How joe has it now means to square up he'll be putting twisting action on the bearings because can't get to the bearings because of profile.

    Better way to do this is to split the job and have separate bearing plate which holds the Ball screw mounts etc and then have another plate which is part of Main gantry which then just sits on and bolts to the bearing plates. This can then be drilled & reamed and pinned when everything is square.

    Much easier to setup and take apart if needed. The gantry becomes separate entity which can easily be removed and put back without too much hassle.

    I'll repeat my self because can't be stressed enough ADJUSTMENT, ADJUSTMENT, ADJUSTMENT then some more ADJUSTMENT is key at DIY level to keeping the stress levels low. . .
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So is this what you propose, (Two plates marked in green) to be drilled with oversize holes and the bearing plate to be tapped to accept bolts, when finished adjusting, drill, ream and pin together?

    Other green items added are the table adjustment brackets.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by OMLCNC View Post
    So is this what you propose, (Two plates marked in green) to be drilled with oversize holes and the bearing plate to be tapped to accept bolts, when finished adjusting, drill, ream and pin together?

    Other green items added are the table adjustment brackets.
    Yes make the plate just little longer than needed so can get some bolts on back side. This is Cad of machine just built using the same setup not got any pics of real thing but can take some tomorrow if you want to see it.
    This is R&P machine and the Gantry needs to able to be removed for access to building but wanted to leave the Motors etc in place so minimal setup when replacing.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Edit: Found this on my phone if zoom in can see the plates.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 06-12-2016 at 09:46 PM.

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  4. #33
    Some progress to report. I have ordered the Rails and carriages, ball screws and bearings for the XYZ Axis from BST Automation. They say 7 Days to deliver - that's a bit frightening!

    I have ordered the steel for the frame, all cut to size. (I have trouble getting 7.5 meter lengths down my lane, it has a sharp bend on it and hostile neighbours).

    I think I'm ready to order some 20mm aluminium tooling plate which I think I will have cut to size. (extra 20) I have large bandsaw and TCT saw and cut off saw but I think first time I'll get them to do it. (They say +/- 0.2mm accuracy).

    The next thing I'm onto and have read lots but would like advice on is the Stepper motors, drivers, motion controller and all the electrical parts I require for my build.

    I will start with my guesses and advice so far on what is required.

    X Axis - Nema34 8.7Nm High torque Stepper Motor 1.8 Deg. (Driving 2 x RM2020 Ball screws by 2:1 pulley)
    Y Axis - Nema23 4Nm Stepper Motor (Driving RM1605 Ballscrew by 2:1 pulley)
    Z Axis - Nema23 4Nm Stepper Motor (Driving RM1605 Ballscrew by 1:1 pulley)

    3 x Stepper Drives (Leadshine 2-phase High-precision stepper drive AM882 fit NEMA 23-34 mode motor work 36-80VDC out 1.0A-8.2A)

    1 x Motion Controler (CSMIO/IP-M 4-axis Ethernet Motion Controller (STEP/DIR) )http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...-step-dir.html

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	19933 From this diagram I reckon I need some other things:

    1 x 24V DC Power Supply?
    1 x 80V DC Power Supply?
    1 (or more) x Estops?
    6? x Limit switches/Sensors http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LJ12A3-4-Z...c=1&rmvSB=true
    Some fuses?
    Some relays?
    2 x Fans?
    1 x Enclosure to put it all in?

    You can see I'm getting out of my depth on the old Electrical front (Black Magic)
    So over to you chaps. Thanks

  5. #34
    1 x 24V DC Power Supply?
    1 x 80V DC Power Supply?
    1 (or more) x Estops?
    6? x Limit switches/Sensors http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LJ12A3-4-Z...c=1&rmvSB=true
    You will be fine with the 24VDC Din rail. PS.
    But not for the 80V one, that would be best with a toroidal type that is putting out about 68V DC

    Re the sensors you can use the switches as travelling ie they move with the gantry etc and have fixed taargets at each end that way you will only need three. Also check if you need NPN or PNP type for the controller you are using.
    Last edited by Clive S; 09-12-2016 at 10:31 AM.
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

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  7. #35
    Neale's Avatar
    Lives in Plymouth, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 10 Hours Ago Has been a member for 4-5 years. Has a total post count of 965. Received thanks 162 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    With the CSMIO-IP/M, I suggest NPN N/C proximity sensors. I'm in the middle of setting up these on my own machine, and they seem to work well. I've actually chosen to use two sensors per axis as it fits my design more easily, and these sensors work OK if you need to connect two on the same axis to the same IP/M input (although the IP/M does have plenty of inputs). Putting X, Y, and Z limit/home switches as one axis per input gives you the minor benefit of being able to home more than one axis simultaneously, although typically you would home Z first to raise it out of the way, and then home X and Y together.

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  9. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHarris View Post
    Oh and one thing on the costs. I'm not sure what your starting point is regarding kit, but I never factored in all the tools (some of which I had never heard of!!) I would need for the build - they add up! Looks good though - good luck with the build!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So true! JoeHarris I dread to think what I've spent on tools. I have kept the receipts for everything so one day I will total the costs. For example, just bought one of the Pro-Tram units to tram the spindle on my machine. 90 quids worth but it does make it easy!

    Top tip for tapping threads in Ali extrusion - use a spiral tap in an electric hand drill. Saves a LOT of time!

    Regards
    Mike

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  11. #37
    Clive is correct that you want toroidal transformer around 70Vdc but don't go buying one as they are expensive and often don't have the required current so need two.
    We or I can talk you thru specing and building one easy enough. They are simple things to build and don't require degree in electronics.

    Re: HOMES/LIMITS. The IP-M will happily work with either NPN or PNP. However if sharing Home and Limit each axis must be on it's own INPUT. This doesn't matter if one SW Traveling or one fixed at each end.
    Whether to use traveling SW or FIxed is matter or preference. My preference is traveling because it's simpler requires less SW Less Wires with Less chance of interference from noise etc.

    To add to your list is 24Vdc Contactor. This is for switching the Toroidal transformer on. Contactors handle the Inrush current much better than Relay.
    You will however still need relay for Reset/E-stop Latching safety system. This relay will do several things one of which is turning on the 24Vdc Contactor.

    You will also require Momentery Push button for the latching Reset system. Also suggest Green LED to show Control is Reset and drives ON.
    Also 240V Mains ON/OFF Switch and again RED Led. Optional is EMI filter but for sake of 8-10 worth fitting one. Also put separate one on the VFD if using Spindle with VFD.

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  13. #38
    Neale's Avatar
    Lives in Plymouth, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 10 Hours Ago Has been a member for 4-5 years. Has a total post count of 965. Received thanks 162 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    However if sharing Home and Limit each axis must be on it's own INPUT.
    Dean - is this one of those "Everyone knows that..." kinds of things? I don't remember seeing mention of this in the IP/M manual (might have missed it) but it strikes me that there are a number of things about the IP/M that aren't really explained properly. I think what it comes down to is that a bunch of useful things are delegated by Mach3 via the plugin to the external controller, but it's never really explained just what is handed over. Like fine details related to master-slave homing, for instance. I'm grateful to know that this is the case or I might have gone down the wrong route, although as it happens I am using separate inputs per axis anyway. I'm also wondering about things like touchplate tool height operation - I know that the IP/M has its own dedicated macro, but does that also mean that it doesn't support things like Gerry's 2010 screenset touchplate functions?

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Neale View Post
    Dean - is this one of those "Everyone knows that..." kinds of things? I don't remember seeing mention of this in the IP/M manual (might have missed it) but it strikes me that there are a number of things about the IP/M that aren't really explained properly. I think what it comes down to is that a bunch of useful things are delegated by Mach3 via the plugin to the external controller, but it's never really explained just what is handed over. Like fine details related to master-slave homing, for instance. I'm grateful to know that this is the case or I might have gone down the wrong route, although as it happens I am using separate inputs per axis anyway. I'm also wondering about things like touchplate tool height operation - I know that the IP/M has its own dedicated macro, but does that also mean that it doesn't support things like Gerry's 2010 screenset touchplate functions?
    I've an IP-M and use Gerry's 2010 screenset, it does support it however you have to be careful which version of Mach3 you use I believe. I'm using too new a version for the screenset to work properly, it throwsworks a wobbly after trying to change the tool and doesn't switch the spindle back on so will plough the tool into the work ruining the work and usually snapping the tool if you're not quick enough to hit e-stop. When the machine's not busy I'll roll back mu version of Mach to one that works.....
    Neil...

    Build log...here

  15. #40
    Don't now how well known Neil but your correct it's not documented in the manual and yes there are several of other useful additions which by the nature of External controllers have to be taken over by the Controllers plug-in.
    This is true for other controllers like the ESS etc and most just take over the dutys but still do it way Mach3 does which is often less than ideal and lazyness on there part.

    Cslabs on the other hand have opted to improve on some of these or correct things that Artsoft won't. Improvements Like Soft limits not allowing Jogging until machine is homed etc. Advanced Homing with Index to Pulse for Servos and Geometry correction when using slaved motors on higher end controller. Things like Backing off sw set amount etc.

    There are other unknown features as well like being able to talk thru Modbus directly to the controller and by pass Mach3 which allows for much faster response times.
    Now when you say it has it's own dedicated Macro's this is basicly what it's doing. It's replacing some of the I/O commands that are normally used and replacing with Modbus commands that talk directly to the controller so provide faster response. It's basicly cutting out the Middle man "Mach3" that other Motion controllers use or because programmers don't want to do them selfs due to being lazy or rubbish at it. ( Warp9(ESS) are prime examples of this Piss poor Plug-in lazyness)

    It can still use the Old ways of doing things but it can also cause some issues. Gerry's screen set being one of them and glad you mentioned that because just reminded me got send Gerry some files and why I'll explain in minute. (Sorry Gerry I'll do it this weekend)

    Now to be fair this isn't all down to Cslabs and some(most) of it is Artsoft fault for changing things to fix one fault but at same time breaking 3 other things. This is why it's not good idea to update Mach3 to latest Version if your not having any troubles. Anyone who knows mach3 knows if it's not broken leave well alone because updating can open can of worms.
    You'll also find that they are running very Old versions of Mach3.

    This is also true for Cslabs. If you contact Cslabs with problem they will tell you to use version 3.043.022. However this version had bug which would cause Mach3 to lockup when using M6 so don't know why they say that.?

    The most stable version of Mach3 without doing anything is 3.042.040 and is what I run for long time before using Cslabs controllers.
    When I started using them opted to use the latest plug-in at the time which think was 3.043.056 or something and had no issues until I installed Gerry's screen set.
    This version didn't like the Probe macros and would throw up Epid faults which basicly means Mach3 is doing something that Cslabs controller doesn't like and considers dangerous. The message it's self is about usefull has fart in space suit but that's what it means.

    Anyway to cut long story short I contacted Cslabs and to be honest they weren't overly helpful on this occasion which is unusual for them. But I put this down to fact that to them it was 3rd party screen set so didn't really want to get involved.!! . . . .Bastards I wasn't amused.

    So I set about the problem my self and changed Gerry's macros so they worked with the controller. Took me weeks of trial and error and testing with just about every version of mach3 and found that 3.043.045 (which is actually3.043.046) was the most stable and worked with the changes.
    Now to be honest I didn't finish fully testing and I don't actually use the Toolchange macros my self, infact don't even use the Simple Z height touch plate anymore.! So haven't given it much time but just recently user of Gerry's screen set had an issue which Gerry contacted me about because knew I'd worked on this.
    So I'm going to pull the macros back out and give them good testing and when sure 100% ok if anyone wants them then contact me directly and I'll give them to you.
    I won't post them in public on principle that Cslabs can get stuffed and why should make there life easier when wouldn't help me.!!

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