Thinking of jumping into CNC milling. How to start ?

[SparkyLabs]

Hello. I run my own one man band company, I design and make small volumes of electronics or have the boards made out where quantities permit (above 25).

Most of what I do needs to go into a box of some kind that invariably needs holes cutting. Machinists ans box manufacturers have long lead times and of course want tooling lcharges. So I'm figuring that if I get a small CNC myself I can have the benefit of production quality sam[les and prototypes and small quantities are viable. for example I have a project currently where i need to make 50 and tooling is £95+ VAT yet each box is only 80p to machine and I'd have to wait 7 weeks.

I have set my eyes on a Proxxon FF 500 / BL-CNC machine which also cmes in a manual version. CNC is £3663 + VAT and the manual one is £1392 + VAT, so they want around £2200 for motors, controller and I guess the biggest cost is software.

My question is, is this a good starting point ? It seems a reasonable amount of money although that is mighty expensive software.

Should I consider any other options ? is there open source software worth considering ? (there is some question as to wheather the machine comes with software).

[m_c]

For the £2k, you're getting ball screws (the standard machine will only have acme lead screws), and lots of extra bits that allow motors to be fitted, along with a controller and some form of software.
Most ready to run CNC mills of this size are pretty expensive, as they're not produced in the same quantities as the manual machines, and there are increased support costs.

Personally, as you say electrical boxes, I'm assuming plastic/die cast enclosures?
In which case I'd look at router style machines, as they'll be far more suited, provided they have enough room under the spindle.

Software to run machines varies from free to expensive, but it all depends on what controller the machine uses. LinuxCNC is open source, and reasonable good. Windows has lots more options. Mach 3 or 4 is one of the more universal options, but there are lots more that are specific to certain machine controllers.

However you also need to factor in software to generate the required G-code that the machine software accepts, which can range from free to extremely expensive, depending on what you'd like to do.

[SparkyLabs]

I see, I thought the manual one would be the same and that they just swapped handles for motors but as i said I am a total noob here. Yes I understand the potential value of all the bits and I thought it is a good machine and a good price but as I have not ventured into this sort of thing yet I thought I'd ask.

Yes I am doing ABS cast boxes. What worries me with a router is the height indeed. The boxes I am currently looking at need machining on the side, they have draft angles so by the time you have one fixed in a vice on the bed and the tool in the machine you sudenly find you need 150mm of working height for a 120mm box. I'm not sure if this too tsll for a router. I'd also like to be flexible for the future. Currently I have a clarke CMD10 but it is painful to use.

[magicniner]

The CAD/CAM learning curve is not one to be underestimated, I bought a desktop CNC mill then spent 18 months before I could reliably produce 4-axis code for it ;-)

- Nick

[SparkyLabs]

Well I would prefer a ready to go solution. if this is what is costs then that is fair enough I just wanted to make sure I was going the right-ish way about it.

[Clive S]

Are you just wanting to drilling holes or wanting to cut out shapes etc. As drilling could be done on a manual mill.
A picture is worth a thousand words of what you are trying to achieve.

[JAZZCNC]

Yes I am doing ABS cast boxes. What worries me with a router is the height indeed. The boxes I am currently looking at need machining on the side, they have draft angles so by the time you have one fixed in a vice on the bed and the tool in the machine you sudenly find you need 150mm of working height for a 120mm box. I'm not sure if this too tsll for a router. I'd also like to be flexible for the future.

What you need is Custom built router.! (Wonder by who.)

This will give you more scope than mill and will easily handle plastics and aluminium. You'll get much more productivity because will be able to mount several boxes at time on fixture jig and cut quicker.
The faster spindle speed of router suits cutting aluminium better than slow spindle you'll get on small Mill (4000rpm). Cycle times will be much faster and will allow for other jobs like engraving etc where higher spindle speeds are more desirable.

Custom built router will knock the spots off Small mill for this type of work. The extra cutting area is always welcome and if done correctly will give much more scope in cutting anything upto aluminium.

Honestly think you'll regret buying that Proxon CNC and will soon outgrow it or find it's limits.

[SparkyLabs]

oh, so do you build such routers ? what happens about software in this case ?

I have to admit that I'm still taken with the idea of a good general purpose machine. steel machining is not totally out but not a priority at the moment.

[JAZZCNC]

oh, so do you build such routers ? what happens about software in this case ?

I have to admit that I'm still taken with the idea of a good general purpose machine. steel machining is not totally out but not a priority at the moment.

Yes I do. I'll PM you my number then if want to chat about them or if just want advise in general feel free to give me call.

Regards cutting steel then I'll always advise you go with Mill but if your talking general purpose cutting of all materials then the size type of mills your looking at will struggle more than well built router.! . . . Hence why I said think you'll regret buying Proxon Mill

IMO if you want to cut Aluminium and harder then buy Mill. However be aware that for aluminium because of slower spindle rpm's it will require HSS tooling and will take much longer than it would good strong router with Carbide tooling.
For softer materials upto Aluminium/Brass and 3D type work then Good Router will always win by the fact it allows more scope and faster feedrates.

Re: Software.

Don't get too hungup on software or be fooled by Bull company's like Proxon peddle. Most of the software provided is basic in what it can do. So what happens is you still end up buying third party Cam software which then spits out G-code you load back into the control software which runs machine.

To run CNC machine you basicly have Control software which does what it says on the tin.? It controls the machine and tells it where to go by processing G-code file which is loaded into it.
The G-code file is created by External CAM program which takes either 2D Vector Graphics(dxf etc) or 3D models and using options provided you create cutting toolpaths which then get processed into G-code file.
The DXF's or 3D models can come from CAD or if using CAD/CAM software created directly inside same software.

So to answer your Q's about what happens with software on machines built by me.

I provide the Control software which in most case is Mach3 which will be all setup and ready to run the G-code file. The CAD/CAM side I leave to the customer to buy/decide because depends greatly on what type of work your going to do to which suits best.

I'll gladly advise and often I'll spend time helping new users with the software. Because I've got lots of experience I've used most software and it's little like CAD in they all work in very similair ways so often can get people confidently producing G-code quickly.

If you are used to CAD then you won't have any trouble with CAM. It's basicly chosing the type of cutting stratergy ie: Drilling, profile,pocket etc then selecting lines/arcs or Surfaces for path you want cutting then selecting tool and filling in few parameters.
When all toolpaths are created you then output them via Post processing file which creates G-file which suits the machine control your using.
This Post processing stage is seamless inside Cam software but very important part and often over looked. Without correct post processor you'll get G-file that is garbage to Control software.

[SparkyLabs]

Well I spoke to jazzcnc today and done some quick thinking.

I think I will just add digital readouts to my crappy Clarke CMD10 to make life simpler and save for the cc-f1200 HS with 7500 rpm.

Sent from my phone so mind the autocorrect.