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  1. #1
    I know different people have different opinions, but what have people used in terms of steppers/servos and what do you regard as the best. so servos and drivers.

    please don't claim something is the best if you have never used them, just reading something someone wrote web doesn't count for a lot.

    I had a cracking day at southern manufacturing and electronics yesterday and I really want to improve the setup on my triac.

    currently my triac has stock steppers in and stock drive cards, id love to improve. id like to get more speed for when doing g00 commands, currently my max and better repeatability.

    I wouldnt mind spending a few quid on a setup that's quality and offers good results.

    let the banter begin...

  2. #2
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 9 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,011. Received thanks 221 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Your budget is the limit!
    However, the problem with a Triac, is you're limited on space to mount servos, unless you start doing some major rejigging of motor mounts. As part of my retrofit, I measured things to see how much room is available for upgrading at some point. X would need the motor flipped and mounted in front/behind the table other wise it'll hit the enclosure. Y would either need the motor flipped and sticking out the rear, or the ballscrew extended to give enough room. I think Z is the only one with plenty room to keep the existing mounting position.

    However, ignoring fitting issues. Drive upgrade will give a noticeable speed improvement. I've got Leadshine EMs fitted, and I'm no where near pushing them to the limit. I still need to see just how fast I can push the original motors, but not got that far yet, as I'm still fixing/finishing other things.
    Modern motors would also give a boost, but I'd rather spend money on servos.


    I've got Kinco servos (400 and 700W) on my lathe, and they work well. I'm running them using +/-10V using a KFlop+kanalog, and they tuned up well.
    I know DaveK fitted some cheaper Chinese servos to his Bridgeport, but the lack of separate logic power supply (means if you kill power to the drive, you lose position - better drives use a separate 24V power for logic, so the encoder works even when drive power is lost), and I know he had some issues tuning them. I am tempted to get one to try, but I've yet to find a suitable use for one.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

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  4. #3
    IMHO used Panasonic or Samsung Servos +drives + cables from flea bay in a very good shape are unbeatable as quality per $. Around 250- 300 the pair, having in mind new only drive is 500 wholesale price, same for motor. quality cable is 100 per cable at least for 4-5m. So do your statistics.

    Most of these motors/ mine including/ are rated flat line to 3-4krpm and falling curve 6k rpm. Meaning you can make exceptionally fast and precise machines. They have tons of functionality a cheap chinese drive will never have and a visual software for free usually. best thing is that almost all of them could work on slow BOBs as the have internal gearing and so on, not that i advise to do so.

    From what i have bought till now, all were like new without problems. Of course i buy the best looking from a certain seller. Have to check the name if you are interested. Spartan or sth similar it was.

    PS. The said brands usually accept all kind of signals good for us, including differential.
    Last edited by Boyan Silyavski; 23-03-2017 at 04:45 PM.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  5. #4
    but the machine doesn't need the worlds biggest servos, its not like it will take massive heavy billets. are there no small decent servos?

    the table doesn't need to move at 1000mph.

    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    Your budget is the limit!
    However, the problem with a Triac, is you're limited on space to mount servos, unless you start doing some major rejigging of motor mounts. As part of my retrofit, I measured things to see how much room is available for upgrading at some point. X would need the motor flipped and mounted in front/behind the table other wise it'll hit the enclosure. Y would either need the motor flipped and sticking out the rear, or the ballscrew extended to give enough room. I think Z is the only one with plenty room to keep the existing mounting position.

    However, ignoring fitting issues. Drive upgrade will give a noticeable speed improvement. I've got Leadshine EMs fitted, and I'm no where near pushing them to the limit. I still need to see just how fast I can push the original motors, but not got that far yet, as I'm still fixing/finishing other things.
    Modern motors would also give a boost, but I'd rather spend money on servos.


    I've got Kinco servos (400 and 700W) on my lathe, and they work well. I'm running them using +/-10V using a KFlop+kanalog, and they tuned up well.
    I know DaveK fitted some cheaper Chinese servos to his Bridgeport, but the lack of separate logic power supply (means if you kill power to the drive, you lose position - better drives use a separate 24V power for logic, so the encoder works even when drive power is lost), and I know he had some issues tuning them. I am tempted to get one to try, but I've yet to find a suitable use for one.

  6. #5
    ive got a PMDX126 in my triac so a pretty decent board.

    link me up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    IMHO used Panasonic or Samsung Servos +drives + cables from flea bay in a very good shape are unbeatable as quality per $. Around 250- 300 the pair, having in mind new only drive is 500 wholesale price, same for motor. quality cable is 100 per cable at least for 4-5m. So do your statistics.

    Most of these motors/ mine including/ are rated flat line to 3-4krpm and falling curve 6k rpm. Meaning you can make exceptionally fast and precise machines. They have tons of functionality a cheap chinese drive will never have and a visual software for free usually. best thing is that almost all of them could work on slow BOBs as the have internal gearing and so on, not that i advise to do so.

    From what i have bought till now, all were like new without problems. Of course i buy the best looking from a certain seller. Have to check the name if you are interested. Spartan or sth similar it was.

    PS. The said brands usually accept all kind of signals good for us, including differential.

  7. #6
    ive heard this is a good start to a good setup

    http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...alog-10-v.html

  8. #7
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 9 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,011. Received thanks 221 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by andy_con View Post
    but the machine doesn't need the worlds biggest servos, its not like it will take massive heavy billets. are there no small decent servos?

    the table doesn't need to move at 1000mph.
    There are, but gearing is the problem.
    Stock steppers are 1.1Nm stall, with a gearing ratio of 12:30, giving roughly 2.75Nm at the screw.

    A 50W 3000rpm servo, which from Kinco is 83mm long (should fit in a similar place to the steppers), gives 0.16Nm. So to get similar torque you need in the region of 17:1 gearing, and you limit screw speed to 176RPM (roughly 880mm/min).
    Move to a 100W version, which from Kinco is 110mm long (I think this was very borderline for fitting to the X, and wouldn't fit on the Y), gives 0.32Nm. Ratio needed is about 8.5:1, and you'd get 1.6m/min speed. If you could manage the gearing ratio, this size would probably be a good match specification wise, but 8.5:1 involves a very big pulley. A gearbox would be a good option, but you add cost, and length.
    A 200W 3000RPM servo, again from Kinco is about 120mm long, and gives 0.7Nm continuous torque. You need a ratio of about 4:1, which is very achievable., and you'd be up over 3m/min if you ran it at full speed.

    Off course all those figures are based around the continuous/rated torque of the motor. Instantaneous/peak torque is typically 2-3x the continuous figure, but you normally rely on that for acceleration, which is where you should get the real benefit over steppers. If you were to run the figures above using the peak torque, then you would have to limit acceleration, and performance gains would be far more limited.

    IIRC, the servo Triacs used about 200W DC servos. I'm sure I read the Y servo stuck out the back of the machine, but I've got no idea how the X was fitted.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

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  10. #8
    I'm guessing all the leadshine and other Chinese AC servos on ebay are naff?

  11. #9
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 9 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,011. Received thanks 221 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by andy_con View Post
    I'm guessing all the leadshine and other Chinese AC servos on ebay are naff?
    Some of them are perfectly good. Kinco is Chinese. Leadshine is good.
    The big thing is making sure whatever you buy will do what you expect it to, and comes with reasonable documentation.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  12. #10
    I bought a full set up of hybrid closed loop stepper motors and associated drivers etc (Purelogic and leadshine) from Zappautomation a few years back and have had nothing but praise for the setup and zappautomation.
    Closed loop does exactly what i wanted and i think i oversized the hybrid steppers but at least i can sit on the machine and take a ride...obviously only done under the influence of alcohol ..

    Tommy

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