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  1. #11
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 12 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 500. Received thanks 66 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    You're machine most likely came with pirated hardware and/or software. Planet CNC has good support, if you buy the hardware and software license from them, or an authorized reseller.

    Fwiw, most of the Mach3 controlled chinese machines on Ebay come with pirated copies of Mach3.
    Anyone buying chinese machines should plan on replacing the hardware and software that they come with,if you want a reliable machine.

    I think that UCCNC, Planet CNC, and Eding CNC are all arguably better than Mach3 at this time. All are actively being developed, where as Mach3 development stopped years ago.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
    UCCNC 2017 Screenset

    Mach3 2010 Screenset

    JointCAM - CAM for Woodworking Joints

  2. #12
    I use Mach3 sw, and have done so since 2002, from mach2 days..

    It is perfectly solid, and delivers industrial quality reliability and performance, on appropriate hw.

    All "base" features will usually work on anything, be it linuxcnc, machx, or likely UCCNC.

    The difficulties start to come up with advanced features, toolchangers, light bars, multiple toolposts, css, high accuracy threading etc.
    Screw mapping, multiple spindles, and so on.
    Multiple MPGs.

  3. #13
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 12 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 500. Received thanks 66 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo2 View Post
    The difficulties start to come up with advanced features, toolchangers, light bars, multiple toolposts, css, high accuracy threading etc.
    Or, when you run into any of the well documented bugs that will never be fixed.

    To be fair, most people never run into these bugs. And Mach3 is used by far more people than it's competitors. But the competition has passed it by.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
    UCCNC 2017 Screenset

    Mach3 2010 Screenset

    JointCAM - CAM for Woodworking Joints

  4. #14
    The competition is no-where near to catching up to Machx... in reality.

    In terms of nr of users, customisation, ability to run a wide variety of gcode including scaling etc. proper offsets etc.
    And yes ...
    -there are any nr of bugs in the old Mach3, not present in the new Mach4.
    -And any nr of bugs/quirks in the wizards.
    -And any nr of bugs/quirks in the hw-based plugins for motion-control engines, where the best are, imo, ime, Pokeys from Polabs and CSMI

    But none of the new ones support a full or semi-full set of gcodes like *all of*
    1. dual toolposts/offsets on lathe (mine),
    1.1 dual-spindles (mine),
    2. dual toolchangers (mine),
    3. scaling with offsets,
    4. accurate threading at 500 kHz up with full-encoder servo spindles like mine,
    5. glass scale feeback (soon mine),
    6. screw mapping (soon mine)
    proper arcs to high resolution etc.

    My point.
    There are 8 modals and == 40-50 commands in gcode, resulting in a multi-million parameter space.
    It is very hard to support and make the semi-full set work.

    HAAS has problems with it, after 25 years, while spending millions per year at it. I used to work with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ger21 View Post
    Or, when you run into any of the well documented bugs that will never be fixed.

    To be fair, most people never run into these bugs. And Mach3 is used by far more people than it's competitors. But the competition has passed it by.

  5. #15
    The competition is no-where near to catching up to Machx... in reality.

    In terms of nr of users, customisation, ability to run a wide variety of gcode including scaling etc. proper offsets etc.
    There are any nr of bugs in the old Mach3, not present in the new Mach4.

    And any nr of bugs/quirks in the wizards.
    And any nr of bugs/quirks in the hw-based plugins for motion-control engines, where the best are, imo, ime, Pokeys from Polabs and CSMI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ger21 View Post
    Or, when you run into any of the well documented bugs that will never be fixed.

    To be fair, most people never run into these bugs. And Mach3 is used by far more people than it's competitors. But the competition has passed it by.

  6. #16
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 12 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 500. Received thanks 66 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    Fortunately, nobody else has machines like you, which need all of these advanced features that are required by only you.

    And many of the features you mention are motion controller specific, and not necessarily native to Mach3. A default Mach3 install with a parallel port can't do most of what you mentioned.

    Number of users is a meaningless stat. So what if more people are using an inferior product? How is that a benefit?
    UCCNC is every bit as customizeable as Mach3, and is probably easier to customize. It also supports scaling. And afaik, doesn't suffer from the many bugs that Mach3 has when using offsets.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
    UCCNC 2017 Screenset

    Mach3 2010 Screenset

    JointCAM - CAM for Woodworking Joints

  7. #17
    I disagree... strongly ... on the inference that is is somehow "only me"..
    A default mach3 install can do all I mentioned, given 2 parallel ports for outputs.

    UCCNC has its own set of issues, which I cannot properly debate since I do no use it, but are quite well documented by many users.
    So does, honestly, to an extent, every motion controller for mach3, mach4 afaik.
    So does linuxcnc / galil etc.

    And as you well said, and I agree completely, a lot of stuff is relegated to the motion controller in machx, and in linuxcnc, and in uccnc.
    Probing, homing, axis slaving, threading, feedhold-pause, mpgs come to mind.

    My machine pauses in 1 ms to feedhold.
    Probing is at 4 Mhz.
    Threading is done at 4 Mhz - or whatever your hw supports.
    MPGs track at hw rate - as good as the Haas machines I used to sell, 65 per year.
    Homing is done at 4 Mhz.
    Any axis can home on the servo index signal Z, Z/.

    Fast feedhold, hires homing, hw threading (with Mhz servo rates), hw MPGs, servo index homing are all std features every controller should support, and most-all users want.
    As well as fast responsive hw-rate FRO or Feed Rate Override, Spindle speed override.

    It also tracks spindle/axis positions at 4 Mhz on full a,b,z encoders from servos for threading, differential signals preferred but optional.

    The most important and useful things are MPGs, fast feedhold, FRO/SSO and high step rates to approx 256 kHz or up.
    Imho. Ime.
    The excellent cheap Pokeys will only do 125 kHz, 4 axis on Mach3, 6 axis iirc on Mach4 at 125 kHz.

    How fast does UCCNC pause ? Probe ? Home ? max step rate ? Slaving ? MPGs (how many ? what rate ?) ? Threading with servos (how fast) ?
    Multiple spindles on lathe ?
    Spindle gearing with servos ?

    Edit:
    Some of the stuff seems pretty up-to-date from their web page. 400 kHz is fine for speeds.

    DOCs from UCCNS are weak ...
    but so is everyone elses docs in general.

    No detailed info on hw speed/latency/jitter, pulse rates, accuracy, or almost any details.
    No info on corner following / tracking, which is a 5-7-stage matrix with tool life, acceleration, speed, accuracy, etc. in the mix.


    I am only pointing out actual missing info, specs, lack of functionality or documentation.
    Lack of working demos showing this stuff working on machines. Etc..

    I have nothing against UCCNC, and they may become good/great over time.

    But 95% of the "good" commercial stuff is still missing, and will be, likely forever.
    This may not matter in fact !

    It is perfectly possible they are successful with a subset of features appropriate for basic 3(-6)-axis machines, of std use.

    Just please, DO NOT toot them as "advanced" or "good" or "more advanced" when they are nothing of the sort vs Machx.
    Today.
    The thing is, gcode-generic-cnc is very complex, once You get into it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ger21 View Post
    Fortunately, nobody else has machines like you, which need all of these advanced features that are required by only you.

    And many of the features you mention are motion controller specific, and not necessarily native to Mach3. A default Mach3 install with a parallel port can't do most of what you mentioned.

    Number of users is a meaningless stat. So what if more people are using an inferior product? How is that a benefit?
    UCCNC is every bit as customizeable as Mach3, and is probably easier to customize. It also supports scaling. And afaik, doesn't suffer from the many bugs that Mach3 has when using offsets.

  8. #18
    Who else has 1 ms feedhold ?
    4 Mhz threading ?
    Glass scale feedback at 4 Mhz ?
    4 Mhz homing ?
    Hw MPGs with instant feedback, due to 1 ms update loop ?
    High-speed servo spindles, with differential signalling, for rigid tapping on mill and lathe ?
    24V industrial IO ?

    Please, let me know ...

    To be honest, a bit less is fine...
    but the real point is no-one else is near to Mach4/Mach3 in terms of commercial, running, working installations in scale, at good commercial quality.

    I am/was a big commercial user of linux in a major, major $$$ way, for 20+ years.
    And appreciate all the benefits, and know very well the $$/tech drawbacks.

    And yes...
    A top-end csmio setup is quite expensive, in hobby terms.

    But a top-end csmio setup is for an industrial machine, where the lift alone is 600 per end, to get it in place, electricity is 1000 or so, and work for the techs is 2-5k per install.
    And a commercial/industrial/production machine, has a huge nr of IO lines, most of which are critical.
    My IO is about 130 lines now, and will be 200+ in the end.
    And I do not have servo errors, resets, in-pos hooked up yet, x 2 x 5.

    Any std industrial machine is 200 IO points plus..
    Toolchangers, air/oil/pressure, interlocks, it all adds up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ger21 View Post
    But the competition has passed it by.

  9. #19
    Who else has 1 ms feedhold ?
    4 Mhz threading ?
    Glass scale feedback at 4 Mhz ?
    4 Mhz homing ?
    Hw MPGs with instant feedback, due to 1 ms update loop ?
    High-speed servo spindles, with differential signalling, for rigid tapping on mill and lathe ?
    24V industrial IO ?

    Please, let me know ...
    I am not getting into this debate but I believe Linuxcnc Master Branch can now do homing with slaved axis and the standard install can do all of the above with Mesa cards
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

  10. #20
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 12 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 500. Received thanks 66 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    Imo, you're requirements are very different from the average Mach3/LinuxCNC/UCCNC user. 95% or more of the user base has no need for the specs you're spouting.
    Neither Mach3, nor UCCNC, is a replacement for a true industrial control. And they don't claim to be.

    I don't really care how many ms feedhold takes. UCCNC stops as soon as you it the button. Whether it's 1ms, or 100ms, you still have to reach for the button, and wait for the machine to decelerate, both of which take a lot longer than your 1ms response.

    UCCNC has its own set of issues, which I cannot properly debate since I do no use it, but are quite well documented by many users.
    You could at least mention what you're talking about. Bugs reported to CNC Drive are typically fixed in a few days, usually as fast as 1-2 days.
    There are no "issues" that I'm aware of, unless you're talking about missing features.

    I don't use a lathe, so I don't care about any of those features.

    The machine homes to the nearest step, whether it's at 100Khz or 4Mhz, the machine still homes to the nearest step.


    Who else has 1 ms feedhold ?
    4 Mhz threading ?
    Glass scale feedback at 4 Mhz ?
    4 Mhz homing ?
    Hw MPGs with instant feedback, due to 1 ms update loop ?
    High-speed servo spindles, with differential signalling, for rigid tapping on mill and lathe ?
    24V industrial IO ?
    All of these are CS Labs features, not Mach3 features. Mach3 is an open loop control, so glass scale feedback is not even used by Mach3.

    With UCCNC and the MB2 breakout board I'm using, I have instant feedhold. Instant FRO and SO using analog inputs. Instant MPG feedback. Rigid tapping. Differential step/direction, and 24V I/O. For about 1/3 the price of Mach3 and a CS Labs controller.

    And with it's superior trajectory planner, I've seen UCCNC run 30% faster, while making more accurate parts than Mach3. At the end of the day, that's what matters to me. Not if the feedhold response is 1ms.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
    UCCNC 2017 Screenset

    Mach3 2010 Screenset

    JointCAM - CAM for Woodworking Joints

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