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  1. #101
    It was moving at 10mm/s because that is the loudest it is going to be causing the most vibrations, are you saying you preferred the noisier DRV8825 compared to the TMC2100?

    You are completely missing the point, that video was only intended to display the noise difference between the two drivers, nothing else. Yes i did dismiss belt driven printers for specific applications, you dismissed Ballscrews for all 3D Printers but actually they are required for specific applications - as i stated before, if you are printing in materials such as Nylon or Polycarbonate, you need to have a bed temperature of 120c+, and almost certainly need the printer in an enclosure to maintain the correct ambient temperature.

    Now if you try and print a large object, where the first layers are going to be printed very slowly, the toolhead and the belts connected to it would be exposed to high ambient temperatures from the Heatbed, these will cause standard rubber belts to distort, i've seen it happen. Maybe you could get some steel belts or whatever, but whats the point when ballscrews are so cheap and offer far superior performance.

    Look im sorry, but go and do some research, LARGE 3D Printers, depending on their architecture, will print at an acceptable quality from 40 - 60mm/s. Now if im printing a full size object on my printer (400 x 400 x 400mm), at a high resoluton maybe 150 - 250microns it will take 40+ Hours, thats standard - not a big deal.

    For just one example, check out this video, i have set it to start just before he tells you how long it took to print - Just under 100 Hours.



    Thanks

    Alex

  2. Quote Originally Posted by AlexDoran View Post
    Now that makes perfect sense to me, thanks for explaining it i have learnt from your post, you obviously have a much higher understanding than me in general about the technology involved. I think the TMC2100 can take a 1/16 input, and re-pulse (is that even a word?) it to 1/256, but in a way that you still get the 1/16 resolution.

    I believe the "Silent Mode" the TMC2100's provide is only really suitable for smaller printers / Delta Printers, and don't handle higher accelerations well, but just for context this is a good video.
    I've got to admit, people who claim microstepping increases accuracy, are one of my pet hates.

    The term you're probably looking for is gearing or scaling. With modern drives, there's a lot of internal scaling going on. The input simply tells the drive the distance you want the motor to move, be that a 256th microstep, or a full step. The drive then takes that, and runs it through however many switching phases it takes to move to that position, which in itself will depend on the speed things are moving at, as once you increase speed, the benefits of microstepping diminish, so the number of switching phases is usually reduced to ensure maximum motor performance (often called morphing).
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  3. #103
    Thanks for all the good input. I was all set to build one and then a Wanhao D5 mini came along at the right price so Im now the proud owner of this little beast.Click image for larger version. 

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    also has the heated glass bed and some PLA+ to play with. Should be up and running soon.

    Thanks Again.

  4. #104
    Hi I have a Cubex trio 3d printer, triple extruder ideal if you want to use dissolvable filament for support material when printing complex parts. Very easy to use comes with some material & and tools to get you started. Good condition. 400
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDoran View Post
    It was moving at 10mm/s because that is the loudest it is going to be causing the most vibrations, are you saying you preferred the noisier DRV8825 compared to the TMC2100?
    Of course I'd prefer a silent driver.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDoran View Post
    You are completely missing the point, that video was only intended to display the noise difference between the two drivers, nothing else.
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDoran View Post
    Yes i did dismiss belt driven printers for specific applications, you dismissed Ballscrews for all 3D Printers
    That's nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by What I said was:
    I think if I build a 3D printer I will use dual ball screws (probably 1004) on the Z with one NEMA23 and belt connecting the two screws. For X and Y I will use direct belt drive.
    Which part of that sentence was not clear? The only thing which is wrong there is that I meant 1204 ball screws. I also said that there are different quality of belts on the market, not necessary steel belts, but also not need to buy the cheapest rubber band, which of course will cause problems, not only because of heat but also stretching. Regardless of which I did NOT dismiss ball screws for 3D printers, I said thet I THINK I'd use belt (not said rubber belt!!!). Whatever will be is written in the starts right now. I will probably only use my CNC to start with and then decide if I want to build one at all, or if I just use my CNC for 3D printing occasionally. I will definitely not print large parts or parts which takes 40+ h to print.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDoran View Post
    ... but actually they are required for specific applications - as i stated before, if you are printing in materials such as Nylon or Polycarbonate, you need to have a bed temperature of 120c+, and almost certainly need the printer in an enclosure to maintain the correct ambient temperature.
    OK

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDoran View Post
    Now if you try and print a large object, where the first layers are going to be printed very slowly, the toolhead and the belts connected to it would be exposed to high ambient temperatures from the Heatbed, these will cause standard rubber belts to distort, i've seen it happen. Maybe you could get some steel belts or whatever, but whats the point when ballscrews are so cheap and offer far superior performance.

    Look im sorry, but go and do some research, LARGE 3D Printers, depending on their architecture, will print at an acceptable quality from 40 - 60mm/s. Now if im printing a full size object on my printer (400 x 400 x 400mm), at a high resoluton maybe 150 - 250microns it will take 40+ Hours, thats standard - not a big deal.

    For just one example, check out this video, i have set it to start just before he tells you how long it took to print - Just under 100 Hours.


    Thanks

    Alex
    I don't plan to start and industry... so it is not relevant for me and don't have time to watch, and I believe most DIY 3D printer builders/users never print anything that takes 100 hours and never use or build a LARGE 3D printer anyway.
    Last edited by A_Camera; 12-08-2017 at 02:15 PM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ross77 View Post
    Thanks for all the good input. I was all set to build one and then a Wanhao D5 mini came along at the right price so Im now the proud owner of this little beast.Click image for larger version. 

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    also has the heated glass bed and some PLA+ to play with. Should be up and running soon.

    Thanks Again.
    Cool. Have you printed anything? Are you happy with it? What's your impressions so far?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDoran View Post
    I'm sorry but you could not be further from the truth, 1/256 microstepping is widely used in the 3D Printing sector, mostly for improved quality and almost silent operation (Mainly with Delta Printers), you think people want to listen to their printer go for 40 hours when its in the next room, making a noise when you're trying to sleep? The needs for a 3D Printer are totally separate from a Router regardless of how similar they actually are.
    Quality is NOT improved if you are micro stepping a stepper motor at 1/256, that is a total misunderstanding. Also, you don't need to microstep at 1/256 to make it silent and even running, that largely depends on the quality of the driver, as well as the mechanical quality of the printer or router.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDoran View Post
    Well my printer uses a SFU1616 ballscrew on both the X & Y and a SFU1204 on the Z Axis, the X Axis is driven by a 1/32 microstepped Nema17, DRV8825 driver.
    OK, so I was wrong, there exists 1616 ball screws. Anyway, I don't think it is a good idea to use them because the 16mm pitch is just too much in my opinion. I would prefer something with MUCH less pitch.

  8. #108
    I've been printing some Nylon parts with my Factory 3D Prusa i3 clone kit ;-)
    This is my PLA part cooling duct with a 40mm fan.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    - Nick
    Last edited by magicniner; 12-08-2017 at 02:50 PM.
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  9. #109
    Cool. Have you printed anything? Are you happy with it? What's your impressions so far?
    Yes lots of failures but I guess its a learning curve. I had bed leveling issues and poor prints with layer shift, since found out that the 2 or the 3 screws holding the main x-y carriage where missing and the 3rd was loose.

    tightening them has solved the layer shift but Im still getting 1mm variation on the bed calibration. guys on the forum think it is the micro switch but it seems to work fine when I tested it with a meter.

    I think it will be a good machine but needs a few tweeks and lots of wear, the previous owners must have used it a lot.

    biggest issues that i missed when researching are the bowden extruder and being stuck with the wanhao maker slicer program. (firm ware upgrades to 3d partry but not brave enough to try)
    Last edited by Ross77; 13-08-2017 at 12:54 AM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by magicniner View Post
    I've been printing some Nylon parts with my Factory 3D Prusa i3 clone kit ;-)
    This is my PLA part cooling duct with a 40mm fan.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    - Nick
    How long did it take to print it? Which temperatures did you have on the table and the extruder?

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