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  1. #151
    Haha I know the feeling!
    Shipping to Sweden from China is usually 30-40 days. Enough time to forget you ordered something :)

    I love the "EU warehouse" deals.
    Fast shipping, no tax and China prices! Unbeatable

    Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk

  2. #152
    Happy day today.

    I recieved a few items today.

    VFD
    Spindle
    80mm bracket
    Drives.

    So.

    Wiring can now start.

    I need oppinions.

    Will this layout work.





    So basically the idea is to keep the vfd down right and keep wiring short and straight out the box not interfering with other wiring.

    Have the 70v dc close to the drives.


    And the 5 v and 24v dc top left near the uc and 5 axis bob stuff.
    Still need to source 5vdc psu.
    Did any of you use usb type a smartphone charger for a psu on UC ?


    Anyway
    High power wiring lower section

    Low power upper section.


    Tried to do something smart with a channel for hot air straight outside somewhere in the middle on the right but ran in to other problems when doing that.

    I want to create airflow from left to right.
    Need to figure that out.

    12vdc adapter is for spindle and cabinet cooling.




    Only low power thing together in cable tray with shielded stepper cables is homing and safety and probe.

    I think the on/of pump relais will for now turn on a relay.. to switch the 12v dc spindle cooling. and maybe the vfd for now.



    I plan to hook up the stepper cables directly on to the drives.


    Grtz Bert.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk
    Last edited by driftspin; 24-05-2018 at 10:57 PM.

  3. #153
    So i ordered this simple 5 axis bob.

    https://goo.gl/images/igEgTX

    Leadshine manual says put 2k resistors in series.

    Anyway, 4 axis enable pulse and dir 3 resistors
    Maybe order 3 more for 5th axis.


    Did you guys use a resistorbank for this ?



    Grtz Bert

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk
    Last edited by driftspin; 27-05-2018 at 08:54 AM.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    So i ordered this simple 5 axis bob.

    Leadshine manual says put 2k resistors in series.

    Anyway, 4 axis pulse and dir 8 resistors
    Maybe order 2 more for 5th axis.


    Did you guys use a resistorbank for this ?


    [/IMG]

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk
    You bought a UC300eth for the controller?, the supply, and outputs from this are 5V and you do not require the use of resistors. Okay, you're connecting this to the 5-axis BoB - that will also require a 5V supply, and the motor outputs from that will be 5V level (the BoB may have a 12-24V input to supply the PWM 0-10V spindle speed controller (though I can't see any evidence of the circuitry for this on the image linked) - but will also require a 5V supply for the on board logic devices). Again - no need for resistors.

    My words of caution on that BoB - there's no evidence of opto-isolated inputs on that BoB - which leads me to believe that all inputs (from switchgear, limits, e-stops etc) must also be referenced to a 5V supply.
    Last edited by Doddy; 27-05-2018 at 08:38 AM.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Doddy For This Useful Post:


  6. #155
    Hmm, just watched the video - he talks of the common line on the motor outputs being connected to CW+ and CP+, which is not my instinctive understanding of the way BoBs normally work (and I've just googled a couple of schematics to confirm) - it's worth - before wiring things up - just checking with either power on the board, or continuity-checking on the board, whether the common pin on the driver outputs are connected to +5 (as in the video description) or 0V (as in the schematics that I've seen). Also, I found this link https://www.machsupport.com/forum/in...0;attach=41290 which also suggests the similarly-looking board (under all the dust) that the common is 0V.

    Without the board I can't claim either is right or wrong, but with the uncertainty presented I'd check where the common is connected - Just try a continuity check between common and 0V, then common and 5V - if the 0V line presents the lowest (near-zero) ohm resistance then the wiring on the video is wrong - you'd connect COM to CW- and CP-, and the pulse/direction signals to CW+ and CP+.

  7. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddy View Post
    You bought a UC300eth for the controller?, the supply, and outputs from this are 5V and you do not require the use of resistors. Okay, you're connecting this to the 5-axis BoB - that will also require a 5V supply, and the motor outputs from that will be 5V level (the BoB may have a 12-24V input to supply the PWM 0-10V spindle speed controller (though I can't see any evidence of the circuitry for this on the image linked) - but will also require a 5V supply for the on board logic devices). Again - no need for resistors.

    My words of caution on that BoB - there's no evidence of opto-isolated inputs on that BoB - which leads me to believe that all inputs (from switchgear, limits, e-stops etc) must also be referenced to a 5V supply.
    Doddy thank you for your explanation.

    Please verify if i understand you correctly and false or true the below.


    1 -
    Pulse, dir, enable, from uc to 5 axis bob is 5 volt level. based on 5volt supply circuit to bob/uc.


    2-
    External psu connection 12/24vdc to bob is for 0-10volt /pwm only.


    3-
    Estop / axis end switches.
    I have 24vdc volt power supply which will be used to power the e-stop circuit / relais.

    1 free contact on e-stop relais will connect to bob e-stop pin / bob gnd.


    4-
    Homing.

    LJ8A3-2-Z/BX
    These proximity switches are NPN.


    Now because they run off a higher voltage separate psu i have to connect 5 volt ground to 24volt ground or they will not work icm with 5axis bob inputs.


    This worries me a little since i thought the bob would be 24v on the inputs for homing
    based on the applied external psu.

    I have read on this forum 24v signals are preferred for interference reasons.

    5-
    I read your warning about the opto isolation, this worries me to.


    Having a € 175,- motion controller i.c.m. with a € 5,- bob that does not protect the controller... does not make sense.

    Please comment on the above.


    Grtz. Bert.











    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk

  8. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    Doddy thank you for your explanation.

    Please verify if i understand you correctly and false or true the below.

    Firstly, you're asking questions on a BoB who's design is somewhat unknown to me, If you have a URL to the actual user manual for the BoB that will help an awful lot in removing uncertainty, however, many of these are supplied without such detail. In the absence of this design data here's my logic behind the conversation to-date:-

    Examining the content of the BoB's component layer - there is no evidence of additional components mounted on the opposite side (e.g. through-hole pins), which leads me to suspect that, the usually obvious, opto-isolators, are not included as part of this design. There looks to be three logic devices - pin-counts support the usual combination - 2x 74xx245 octal driver devices (of whichever technology family - HC, HCT, LS, etc). These are almost always driven from a 5V supply (which is compatible with the UC300eth and parallel ports in the PC). You would need these 2 devices to give the 5V buffering for the 2x5 (=10) motor drives, presumably the 11th being the common enable to the stepper drivers, another for the spindle relay - in fact, this is supported by the silk-screening on the board - 12 outputs. The smaller 14-pin device I would guess at something like a 74xx13 device - a hex Schmitt-trigger inverter device, which would support upto 6 inputs - 4 we know already for the IN1-4 inputs. My guess is the remaining 2 gates unconnected. The choice of a 74xx13 would be intelligent (as well as common) as these afford some noise immunity on the incoming signals.

    What's left on the board that's visible?, an SMD transistor that will be used to switch the relay, a PTH diode (1N4148?) for back-emf protection on the relay coil, a couple of LEDs - I guess power, and spindle on/off, discrete resistors for the LEDs and the base-drive for the transistor; some SIL resistor packages for pull-up, or pull-down (can't tell) on the inputs to the board, and a smattering of decoupling capacitors. That's pretty much it.

    No on-board regulation and a requirement to source the 5V supply from the USB connector.

    No charge-pump for the PWM drive, or op-amp (typically LM358s in these basic designs), no provision for anything other than the USB supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    1 -
    Pulse, dir, enable, from uc to 5 axis bob is 5 volt level. based on 5volt supply circuit to bob/uc.
    TRUE.


    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    2-
    External psu connection 12/24vdc to bob is for 0-10volt /pwm only.
    FALSE - as above - no evidence in the image linked to the you-tube video of anything other than the USB power-input for the 5V supply.

    Other BoBs, such as the one I have in front of me, have a separate 12-24VDC supply to provide the isolated 0-10V drive output to the spindle drive, but there's no evidence of any such circuitry on the BoB linked.

    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    3-
    Estop / axis end switches.
    I have 24vdc volt power supply which will be used to power the e-stop circuit / relais.


    1 free contact on e-stop relais will connect to bob e-stop pin / bob gnd.
    That will work, provided you have a common ground reference for both the logic supply to the BoB and the 24V supply. <-- ignore that last bit - that's wrong

    A switched ground, provided the BoB has on-board pull-up (which I'm pretty certain it will) is a safe mode of connecting to the system. Do not, however, try any 24V signalling into this BoB.

    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    4-
    Homing.

    LJ8A3-2-Z/BX
    These proximity switches are NPN.


    Now because they run off a higher voltage separate psu i have to connect 5 volt ground to 24volt ground or they will not work icm with 5axis bob inputs.


    This worries me a little since i thought the bob would be 24v on the inputs for homing
    based on the applied external psu.

    I have read on this forum 24v signals are preferred for interference reasons.
    Okay, so, do the proximity switches have internal pull-up resistors to their supply? (put a DVM on resistance scale between +V and the output - if there is a relatively low impedance - say <50k, between the +V and the output, and this is the same regardless of whether you use the meter red/black leads between the +V and output) - then this is a strong indication that there is an internal pull-up. In this case, connecting the output from the proximity switch to the input of the BoB is likely to damage the BoB. It's uncertain to me whether this would risk further damage to the UC300eth - I'd not recommend trying.

    If there's no low resistance between output and +V on the proximity switches then I'd guess there's no pull-up, in which case you *could* pull-up to the BoB's 5V supply, but you lose the benefit of the noise-immunity offered by the wider supply range. Not recommended.


    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    5-
    I read your warning about the opto isolation, this worries me to.

    Having a € 175,- motion controller i.c.m. with a € 5,- bob that does not protect the controller... does not make sense.

    Please comment on the above.
    Yup. I'd look at a <$5 BoB that includes Opto couplers, to be honest.



    Edit:

    This is the board that I have, and referenced above:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183048728446.

    I don't necessarily recommend this one, but you can immediately recognise other component blocks - the 5 opto-isolators running down the left edge for inputs. A similar one mid/lower board that provides isolation from the PWM input into the charge-pump/integrator op-amp set-up with the tiny 8-pin SMD chip in the lower-right corner (together with a chunky capacitor or two as part of that circuit). Just below the relay - a SMD regulator likely for the op-amp. So, opto-isolated inputs, a 0-10V drive for spindle speed that is isolated from the logic supply, and the separate 12-24V supply for this op-amp. None of that visible on the board that you linked.

    Edit 2:

    Your board can be made to work - but you have to be aware of it's design and any limitations.
    Last edited by Doddy; 27-05-2018 at 12:19 PM. Reason: Added alternate BoB details for comparison

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  10. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddy View Post
    Your board can be made to work - but you have to be aware of it's design and any limitations.
    I'd also consider when to cut your losses if you want to continue with your original design aims.

  11. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddy View Post
    Firstly, you're asking questions on a BoB who's design is somewhat unknown to me, If you have a URL to the actual user manual for the BoB that will help an awful lot in removing uncertainty, however, many of these are supplied without such detail. In the absence of this design data here's my logic behind the conversation to-date:-

    Examining the content of the BoB's component layer - there is no evidence of additional components mounted on the opposite side (e.g. through-hole pins), which leads me to suspect that, the usually obvious, opto-isolators, are not included as part of this design. There looks to be three logic devices - pin-counts support the usual combination - 2x 74xx245 octal driver devices (of whichever technology family - HC, HCT, LS, etc). These are almost always driven from a 5V supply (which is compatible with the UC300eth and parallel ports in the PC). You would need these 2 devices to give the 5V buffering for the 2x5 (=10) motor drives, presumably the 11th being the common enable to the stepper drivers, another for the spindle relay - in fact, this is supported by the silk-screening on the board - 12 outputs. The smaller 14-pin device I would guess at something like a 74xx13 device - a hex Schmitt-trigger inverter device, which would support upto 6 inputs - 4 we know already for the IN1-4 inputs. My guess is the remaining 2 gates unconnected. The choice of a 74xx13 would be intelligent (as well as common) as these afford some noise immunity on the incoming signals.

    What's left on the board that's visible?, an SMD transistor that will be used to switch the relay, a PTH diode (1N4148?) for back-emf protection on the relay coil, a couple of LEDs - I guess power, and spindle on/off, discrete resistors for the LEDs and the base-drive for the transistor; some SIL resistor packages for pull-up, or pull-down (can't tell) on the inputs to the board, and a smattering of decoupling capacitors. That's pretty much it.

    No on-board regulation and a requirement to source the 5V supply from the USB connector.

    No charge-pump for the PWM drive, or op-amp (typically LM358s in these basic designs), no provision for anything other than the USB supply.



    TRUE.




    FALSE - as above - no evidence in the image linked to the you-tube video of anything other than the USB power-input for the 5V supply.

    Other BoBs, such as the one I have in front of me, have a separate 12-24VDC supply to provide the isolated 0-10V drive output to the spindle drive, but there's no evidence of any such circuitry on the BoB linked.



    That will work, provided you have a common ground reference for both the logic supply to the BoB and the 24V supply. <-- ignore that last bit - that's wrong

    A switched ground, provided the BoB has on-board pull-up (which I'm pretty certain it will) is a safe mode of connecting to the system. Do not, however, try any 24V signalling into this BoB.



    Okay, so, do the proximity switches have internal pull-up resistors to their supply? (put a DVM on resistance scale between +V and the output - if there is a relatively low impedance - say <50k, between the +V and the output, and this is the same regardless of whether you use the meter red/black leads between the +V and output) - then this is a strong indication that there is an internal pull-up. In this case, connecting the output from the proximity switch to the input of the BoB is likely to damage the BoB. It's uncertain to me whether this would risk further damage to the UC300eth - I'd not recommend trying.

    If there's no low resistance between output and +V on the proximity switches then I'd guess there's no pull-up, in which case you *could* pull-up to the BoB's 5V supply, but you lose the benefit of the noise-immunity offered by the wider supply range. Not recommended.




    Yup. I'd look at a <$5 BoB that includes Opto couplers, to be honest.



    Edit:

    This is the board that I have, and referenced above:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183048728446.

    I don't necessarily recommend this one, but you can immediately recognise other component blocks - the 5 opto-isolators running down the left edge for inputs. A similar one mid/lower board that provides isolation from the PWM input into the charge-pump/integrator op-amp set-up with the tiny 8-pin SMD chip in the lower-right corner (together with a chunky capacitor or two as part of that circuit). Just below the relay - a SMD regulator likely for the op-amp. So, opto-isolated inputs, a 0-10V drive for spindle speed that is isolated from the logic supply, and the separate 12-24V supply for this op-amp. None of that visible on the board that you linked.

    Edit 2:

    Your board can be made to work - but you have to be aware of it's design and any limitations.
    Ok thank you for breaking down the 5 axis bob so detailed.

    I have not recieved the bob yet.


    I will post a picture when i do.



    This limits my options for wiring for now.



    Grtz. Bert

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk

  12. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddy View Post
    I'd also consider when to cut your losses if you want to continue with your original design aims.
    Ok doddy,


    I think i am lucky, this is what i recieved.



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