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  1. #1
    Hi Folks,

    I was going to ask the same queries on the Denford site but thought I would put them here as well, as there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum!

    Basically I have no idea what I'm doing lol.

    I have acquired a mid 80's green Triac, R8 spindle, no ATC. I'll be primarily using this for prototype development making parts out of steel, and will need to do some 3D machining. I'd like to be able to run Mach 3 on the mill as this software is well supported from a community point of view.

    As for parts, I was thinking to use steppers from CNC4You...Nema 23 3.1Nm for the X and Y, and a Nema 23 4Nm for the Z. Are these going to have enough grunt for this mill and application?

    Can anyone comment on the CNC4You reccomended drivers, namely the CW5045 (https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Microstepp...tepping-CW5045) ? Any good? The price at 39 each seems good.

    An area that is confusing to me is the application of a motion controller. I have heard favourable reviews of the CSMIO IP-M...but frankly have no idea why you would need to add this bit of kit. Could someone explain its function to me please? I have seen simple conversions which use stepper drivers linked up to a BoB and all seems well, so why the need for a motion controller? And how would the CSMIO IP-M compare to a UCS100?

    Another thing I was wondering is what controls the spindle speed on a Triac? Is there a board or card that could be salvaged from the electronics and still be compatible with Mach3?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated, as would any suggestions for alternative components and suppliers. I am needing to do this on a tight budget.

  2. #2
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 12 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 1,192. Received thanks 85 times, giving thanks to others 58 times.
    Hi,

    IVe done a few of these.

    You need to determine if it has steppers or servos. From this, you can then look at options around what control board etc.

    Dont buy anything till you know this info. Any pics of the control panel / drivers (existing stuff)?

    The speed for the spindle is controlled by the controller providing 0-10V into a drive. The 'normal' DC drives (if you have the same SEM motor) is not isolated and can cause issues. You need to look at the Sprint 1220i controllers.

    Where are you based? Interesting alias ..... from ZA by any chance?

    Chaz
    Last edited by Chaz; 09-10-2017 at 08:47 AM.

  3. #3
    Double post
    Last edited by Matabele; 09-10-2017 at 02:05 PM.

  4. #4
    Ha, I posted a quick reply about 30 mins ago but it seems it didn't post for some reason.

    Hi Chaz, many thanks for the reply and info much appreciated! Well spotted and very close, I was brought up in Zimbabwe. Have you spent some time in that part of the world?

    The triac was actually given to me so no cash has changed hands yet, although it did come with some Coventry easy change tool holders which the seller (my boss) may want some cash for. Looking online replacements are about 100 each!

    It definitely has steppers, although I havnt had a chance to look inside the control enclosure yet.

    What set of components would you use to convert this mill Chaz? Would you keep the existing steppers or start from scratch.

    Apart from that are the Triacs a capable machine in your opinion?

    Cheers for now

  5. #5
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 12 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 1,192. Received thanks 85 times, giving thanks to others 58 times.
    Hi,

    I'm South African, hence knowing the word.

    Mine was servo based. The one I helped with recently was also servo based.

    If it has steppers, Id consider keeping that and just getting a cheap breakout board or look at the Pokeys / Eding stuff. Depends on budget.

    They are fairly capable, all depends on what your expectation is. I'm sure you can get it going for less than the cost of a new Chinese POS, so probably worth it.

    Where are you based now? If not too far from me I could pop around and suggest how to based on what I can see.

    Chaz

  6. #6
    Thanks for the offer Chaz, appreciate it! I'm in Shrewsbury, not sure if that's anywhere near you? I still have to sort out a place to put the thing, organise moving it and some time to have a look inside and see what's what.

    Do you still use your conversion or have you upgraded.

  7. #7
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 12 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 1,192. Received thanks 85 times, giving thanks to others 58 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matabele View Post
    Thanks for the offer Chaz, appreciate it! I'm in Shrewsbury, not sure if that's anywhere near you? I still have to sort out a place to put the thing, organise moving it and some time to have a look inside and see what's what.

    Do you still use your conversion or have you upgraded.
    Pity, not close. Im in West London.

    Ive sold mine as I build a new machine which you can find the lunacy about here - Thor Madness
    Last edited by Chaz; 09-10-2017 at 03:52 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Matabele View Post
    Hi Folks,
    Can anyone comment on the CNC4You reccomended drivers, namely the CW5045 (https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Microstepp...tepping-CW5045) ? Any good? The price at 39 each seems good.
    I don't know of this driver, but the datasheet claims

    PUL+, PUL-; Stepping pulse input+5V (Positive edge effective, pulse duration>10μSec) .

    That's a bit slow (I know they claim 100kHz, but a pulse duration of >10uS?, doesn't Mach3 limit pulse width to <=5us (I could be wrong here!)

  9. #9
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 7 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,121. Received thanks 233 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    If the existing steppers work, I'd be inclined to use them to begin with. Modern steppers will give a boost in performance, but as long as you fit good drivers along with a decent power supply, you'll still get reasonable performance from the original steppers.

    Using an external motion controller allows for faster step outputs, and removes the step generation from the PC. Just using a PC, the step output speed is limited, and if you use Mach, the newest version of windows you can use is Win7 32bit (Win8, 10, or anything 64bit won't work).

    With a stepper driven machine, you will get adequate performance with a parallel port and basic BOB, and you may not get that much in the way of performance benefit by using an external motion controller, however they do remove the problems of finding a suitable motherboard with a parallel port that will work well.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  10. #10
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 12 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 1,192. Received thanks 85 times, giving thanks to others 58 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    If the existing steppers work, I'd be inclined to use them to begin with. Modern steppers will give a boost in performance, but as long as you fit good drivers along with a decent power supply, you'll still get reasonable performance from the original steppers.

    Using an external motion controller allows for faster step outputs, and removes the step generation from the PC. Just using a PC, the step output speed is limited, and if you use Mach, the newest version of windows you can use is Win7 32bit (Win8, 10, or anything 64bit won't work).

    With a stepper driven machine, you will get adequate performance with a parallel port and basic BOB, and you may not get that much in the way of performance benefit by using an external motion controller, however they do remove the problems of finding a suitable motherboard with a parallel port that will work well.
    I'm using Win 10 64 Bit for both my Lathe and Thor mill. Is this a breakoutboard limitation or something else? Im using CS Labs on Thor and Pokeys on the lathe.

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