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  1. #1
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MC Electrics 001.jpg 
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    Not a CNC problem, but hopeing someone can point me in the right direction.
    This is an electrical drawing of my C3-31 Hammer (Felder) combination machine.

    A few days ago it started tripping the MCB32A trip, which progressively got worse, on
    any of the motors (Saw, planner, spindle moulder) until it would not work at all.

    Suspected contactors, on enquiring with manufacturer was informed they only supply
    complete enclosures A1 item 2 on drawing at 500.

    So decided to purchase equivalent contactor and axillary contactor and fit.
    Result was it would work if I unplugged the motor. (Contactor would pull in)
    But if motors plunged in would sometimes work on Saw, but most of the time contactors "chattered"
    some times holding in and sometimes tripping MCB332A trip.

    The safety limits and stops are the same as a cnc machines so they should not be a problem.
    I have tried bypassing the overload protection - no effect.

    My suspicions are the braking circuit board, as I believe this works by injecting current back into
    the motor to produce a magnetic field to stoop the motor quickly. Has this broken?
    Causing some load to prevent the contactors working correctly?

    Any help greatly appreciated before I fork out the 500.

    Robert

  2. #2
    Break the connection of the braking circuit to the motor and test.

    Fault finding is a process of logical elimination, not speculation, the fact that multiple motors suffer the same issue suggests it isn't the motors but it can still be any other common component.

    Are the motors single or 3 phase?
    I'm sure it's clear on the schematic and DC injection braking is a 3-phase technique but you should post the schematic the right way up and at good resolution if you expect anyone to examine it closely, if you can't be bothered......... ;-)
    Regards,
    Nick
    Last edited by magicniner; 02-12-2017 at 06:18 PM.
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  3. #3
    It looks like it's 3 phase, I have a single phase version of this machine but it still has an electrical braking system.

    Does it trip when you start a motor or when you press a stop button ?

    It could be the rotary switch S7 (10), saw/moulder/planer, maybe it's losing a phase to the motors ?
    Last edited by EddyCurrent; 02-12-2017 at 07:41 PM.
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  4. #4
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    Drawing any better Nick?
    Translation from German:
    1 Home
    2 Switching Unit
    3 On Off Switch
    4 Overload Protection
    5 Contactor
    6 Auxiliary Contactor
    7 Braking Circuit
    8 Transformer
    9 Fuse
    10 Selector Switch
    11 Limit Switch
    12 Emergency Stop
    13 Emergency Stop
    14 Motor Saw
    15 Motor Spindle Moulder
    16 Motor Planer
    17 Plug
    18 Limit Switch
    19 Limit Switch
    20 Terminal Strip

    Yes the motors are 3 phase run from a Transwave inverter.

    So disconnect wire R7 from the contactor to eliminate the Braking circuit?

    Does it trip when you start a motor or when you press a stop button ?

    It trips or won't start when you press the start button. Contacts flash, chatter. But it does run on all three motors once it decides to hold the contacts in.
    But I don't think the contactor will last long if I keep using it like this.

    Thank you for your suggestions I will have another look at it tomorrow.

  5. #5
    Is the coil voltage correct on your replacement contactor ? it shows 230v AC on the drawing, have you checked the voltage at the coil with a meter while it's chattering ?
    Last edited by EddyCurrent; 02-12-2017 at 09:37 PM.
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  6. #6
    Is the MCB332A which is tripping running the transwave and have you checked the output of the transwave as cack 3 phase into your machine will cause it to play up as various control bits are powered by single phases.
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  7. #7
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,009. Received thanks 221 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    With those symptoms, as Nick mentions, I'd be checking the power supply.

    If the power supply is dropping enough to cause the contactor to drop out again (and enter a continual cycle causing the chattering), then the cycling high current draw can easily start tripping MCBs/blowing fuses.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by magicniner View Post
    Is the MCB332A which is tripping running the transwave and have you checked the output of the transwave as cack 3 phase into your machine will cause it to play up as various control bits are powered by single phases.
    Nick I have a Wadkin planer and a Speed Sander I run off the transwave and they are both running fine.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by EddyCurrent View Post
    Is the coil voltage correct on your replacement contactor ? it shows 230v AC on the drawing, have you checked the voltage at the coil with a meter while it's chattering ?
    Here is the replacement contactor details https://chaloncomponents.co.uk/produ...oltage=230v-ac
    I will check while chattering.

  10. #10
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,009. Received thanks 221 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by OMLCNC View Post
    Nick I have a Wadkin planer and a Speed Sander I run off the transwave and they are both running fine.
    It may be down to how each machine is connected. Do you have this machine connected, so the two legs (2 & 3) that power the control circuits, are connected to the non-generated leg on the converter?

    With most common single to three phase converters, two legs are supplied directly from a step-up transformer, then the 3rd leg is generated using purely capacitors (in the case of static converters), or by a combination of idler motor and capacitors (in the case of rotary converters).
    If you connect one of the control legs to the generated leg, then it is very likely to sag under motor starting loads, which would explain your symptoms. If you have had it connected this way, then there is a possibility that converter is the problem, which is why we're asking about voltages. It could be the converter has either developed a fault (some will try and boost the voltage under high load conditions), or it could just be a combination of capacitors getting a bit weaker as they age, a bit extra load on the motors, and the cold weather making things a bit sluggish, that have pushed things to the point the problem has become apparent.

    And if your other machines are connected so their control circuits are powered from the non-generated legs, it would give the impression the convertor is working fine, as although the generate leg would sag while starting, you probably would not notice any difference unless really pushing the machines to their maximum loads.

    So in short, check what voltages you're getting into the control, especially the voltage at the transformer that is supplying the 230V for the controls.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

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