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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Clive S View Post
    It might also be worth noting that the 90x45 ali profile can be tapped 12mm with a spiral tap very easily in the end holes which make a build quite simple.
    Or if you buy it from KJN they'll tap the ends for a couple of quid if you're lacking taps and I remember I think it was alex had issues until he got the right tap then it was super easy.

    I never tapped the extrusion I used an impact driver to force the M12 bolts into the extrusion, I used corners and T nuts to keep the extrusion straight (My frame is 9045) but the gantry I recessed the aluminium into the aluminium plates by 5mm each side (20mm thick plates) which kept the gantry straight whilst I bolted it on.
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    I got the Hiwin recess wrong so I ended chopping 1.5cm off the Hiwin's which when I checked the Cad model was obviously wrong lol I must have been having a moment.

    Hiwin's are rated for 95%+ of their loading capacity when mounted sideways on this is why on my machine I mounted the Hiwin's where the ballscrew is on yours and the ballscrew when you have the hiwins.

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    Removes triangles considerably simplifies the build but increase gantry plate height which can be an issue with flex. I'm only cutting wood and I made my gantry mounts 20mm thick so I don't think this is a problem for me. If and when I build again I'm going to build it same way I did before but undersling the ballscrew so it's out of way of any debris.

    I have to say the No.1 thing I would do differently is rotating ball nut but if not then 10mm pitch ballscrews my router is very close in size to yours my travel is 130cm*70cm but I got 5mm pitch ballscrews and this is the biggest mistake I made on my build. (If you exclude me blowing up 1 PSU lol)

    As for electronics I went with 4 AM882 (240 new from China, Toroidal transformer for 70v (80 from Rapid), $5 BOB for control with a PC parallel port and linuxcnc. I do intend to add an 7i73 board (allows me to use ethernet to breakout boards instead of PP) but I would say the setup I have is the bear minimum for a decent router. Stall protection being the bare minimum in a stepper driver.

    Good luck with your build.
    Last edited by Desertboy; 26-12-2017 at 02:16 PM.
    http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880...60cm-work-area My first CNC build WIP 120cm*80cm

    If you didn't buy it from China the company you bought it from did ;)

  2. #12
    AndyUK's Avatar
    Lives in Southampton, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 14.
    Okay, so its been approximately a year. I suppose I'd better post an update or two!

    First things first, current drawings:


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    I mulled over the advice I got from Clive and routercnc for a long time. far too long. I repeated my deformation calculations with various materials and geometries. Ultimately, Aluminium won :) There's a few solid reasons:
    • Cost - It isn't as bad as I expected. The aluminium profiles are only about 50.
    • Ease of working with. The connection to the side plates is just so much easier.
    • Deformation is tolerable. I think it increases vs my steel design from 3.0um to 4.9um - Lets be honest, its never getting close to those tolerances elsewhere!
    • Proven history of this configuration working for others on this forum.


    That decision also cemented the plan for making the side plates out of 20mm aluminium plate - and I think they look reasonable. The other factor is that the milling machine is currently in storage a couple of hundred miles away, and at least I can work aluminium in my garage :D This means I'm also planning on going down the epoxy route for levelling the x-axis, and my belief is that the y axis on the ali-profile should be reasonable out of the box (?). That also allowed me to further copy Joe (thanks bud!) and start designing my motor mount locations etc.

    Plan for the motors is that they're all going to have a 15mm timing belt connection to the ballscrews. I believe this allows me some flexibility to gear up/down in the future.

    I want to start ordering the linear motion bits - so I've got a few questions:

    I've up-beefed the x-axis ballscrews to 2010 1100mm. The y axis is currently 1610 750mm, and the z is 1605 250mm. I'm having a little crisis of confidence in these though, so before I bother Fred for a quote, does that sound right to everyone? Does that get appropriate speeds for what I'm planning on doing? I'm probably mostly cutting wood and occasionally glass and aluminium - I guess I can gear the x axis if it becomes a problem? I was planning on 4x 6nm Nema 23s.

    Second crisis of confidence about the screws is the bearings. I'm planning for a BK15 and BF15 (one either end, fixed at motor) for the x axis, then BK12 and BF12s for the Y and Z. Add to that a ballnut for each screw, and thats everything right? :)

    Finally, I think my linear rails are as follows: All 20mm, 1200 on X, 850 on Y, and 400 on Z. I think I'll need 12 carriages. Sound good?

  3. #13
    AndyUK's Avatar
    Lives in Southampton, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 14.
    And, just to prove I haven't been completely slacking off since last year - some progress photos!

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    Large steel delivery (about three hundred quid for the base frame and adjustable bed + some sizable offcuts). Lots of cutting... then lots of cleaning up the pieces to make them nice and shiny and easy to weld. At this point, also, you know, learnt to weld a bit :)

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    Marking up - discovering what marking up fluid is, and then having to find my own tub! At this point I couldn't wait to layout the steel in approximate locations to give me a better idea of size (wife redacted!)

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    Worth also mentioning that part of the reason I've been so slow with this project to date is that I started it a couple of months after buying our first home. My workshop needed a little attention due to a steel lintel which rusted and pushed up the top few brick layers, and the window had rotted out - so here's a couple of pictures illustrating what we did with it. We followed this up with a complete rewire. Notice large pile of steel under bench...

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    LOTS of drilling, and LOTS of tapping. I said in my first post I'd never tapped a hole before this. Well, Now... lets just say there were evenings I wore blisters! Should probably have got myself a power-tap, but hey, all good experience.

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    By this point the milling machine had made it into storage (for various reasons...), and I wanted to get on with my steel plates for the bed. The shape is cosmetic anyhows, so I went ahead and used the solution to hand, which was a jigsaw with a metal blade. Was quite exciting to do a quick visualisation - although a bit of a tight fit before clearing the space for it! Note that one of the key changes I've made is bolting the frame together initially - I still plan to weld it, but I liked the idea that I could assemble then tack weld once I'm happy with the structure and basic alignment. Whilst I doubt it will help much with distortion, it has prevented me from making any big cockups with the basic dimensions of the base frame - and that steel is expensive!

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    Time to sort out the angle iron - needed quite a few of these since I started bolting together. Took the opportunity to borrow the bandsaw whilst at the in-laws and get them nicely cut to size. Marking them was a bit of an onerous task, so as my wife had recently taken up 3D printing as a hobby, printed out a jig to prevent me needing to measure! Worked surprisingly well, as our off-the-shelf middle-of-the-range printer is astonishingly accurate on its dimensions.

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    Now that I had the angle pieces, I could start bolting the base together. This is pretty much how it stands today - I've added the other two cross bars, and tightened it all down. I was gobsmacked when I went around measuring the dimensions against the CAD model, to find everything was smack on what I designed it to be - although I don't have a meter long pair of calipers so I'm calling close enough!

    Next stage is to start assembing the adjustable height bed - this time I'll be welding straight out of the gate, then I need to tack weld the base frame together and design some height adjustable feet. I'm considering drilling into the concrete base of the workshop and attaching it down - thoughts? Otherwise, as I mentioned in my last post, I want to get the linear motion components on order, and order the aluminium profiles for the gantry to begin assembling those.

    Thanks for reading this far - its quite fun sharing this now I've eventually gotten around to it! :) I certainly wouldn't be able to get any of this done without the help and guidance I've found on this forum already.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyUK View Post
    . . . . . . .

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    Marking them was a bit of an onerous task, so as my wife had recently taken up 3D printing as a hobby, printed out a jig to prevent me needing to measure! Worked surprisingly well, as our off-the-shelf middle-of-the-range printer is astonishingly accurate on its dimensions. . . . . . . .
    Like that thinking! What make and model 3D printer are you using?

    The large dimension box section you've used for the base frame is great but I would suggest that, when you get to the welding stage, you stiffen the frame by triangulating with diagonal bracing.

    Personally I would brace roughly the bottom half of the side frames (sorry about negating those bottom drilled holes for the adjustable bed. Eek!)

    Your build thread reminds me of the build by Joe Harris, and is a good one to follow!

    Andy

  5. #15
    AndyUK's Avatar
    Lives in Southampton, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 14.
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyGuid View Post
    Like that thinking! What make and model 3D printer are you using?
    Thanks Andy :) We're using a Creality CR10-S. Was printing accurately with PLA within an hour of opening the box - very pleased with it so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyGuid View Post
    Personally I would brace roughly the bottom half of the side frames (sorry about negating those bottom drilled holes for the adjustable bed. Eek!)
    So we're on the same page, I guess you're talking about adding the red lines in the diagram below, rather than the green? I suppose if they were removable bracing they wouldn't foul the adjustable bed permanently... I was hoping to use the lower sections of the frame for a second structure, like a coolant trap or something.

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  6. #16
    AndyUK's Avatar
    Lives in Southampton, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 14.
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyUK View Post
    I want to start ordering the linear motion bits - so I've got a few questions:

    I've up-beefed the x-axis ballscrews to 2010 1100mm. The y axis is currently 1610 750mm, and the z is 1605 250mm. I'm having a little crisis of confidence in these though, so before I bother Fred for a quote, does that sound right to everyone? Does that get appropriate speeds for what I'm planning on doing? I'm probably mostly cutting wood and occasionally glass and aluminium - I guess I can gear the x axis if it becomes a problem? I was planning on 4x 6nm Nema 23s.

    Second crisis of confidence about the screws is the bearings. I'm planning for a BK15 and BF15 (one either end, fixed at motor) for the x axis, then BK12 and BF12s for the Y and Z. Add to that a ballnut for each screw, and thats everything right? :)

    Finally, I think my linear rails are as follows: All 20mm, 1200 on X, 850 on Y, and 400 on Z. I think I'll need 12 carriages. Sound good?
    No readers objected violently, so I've got a quote for the above from Fred. Very helpful and quick service.

    First thing he pointed out was that I needed to specify that I'm planning to use timing belts on the ballscrews rather than direct connections, as the machining will be different. Can anyone shed some light on why? Is it a different shaft diameter or is it keyed or flatspotted for a grub screw?

    Second point is he has offered two types of BK support, one with upgraded P5 AC bearings. Any thoughts?

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyUK View Post
    No readers objected violently, so I've got a quote for the above from Fred. Very helpful and quick service.

    First thing he pointed out was that I needed to specify that I'm planning to use timing belts on the ballscrews rather than direct connections, as the machining will be different. Can anyone shed some light on why? Is it a different shaft diameter or is it keyed or flatspotted for a grub screw?

    Second point is he has offered two types of BK support, one with upgraded P5 AC bearings. Any thoughts?
    Probably because on the ball screw where the pulley fits is called the F length I think from memory this is about 25mm if you are using pulleys then tell him to make it 30 or 35mm you can always cut it shorter.

    Go for the best bearings re the BK
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyUK View Post
    My plan for the motors was, as you point out, cut some ventilation holes in the rails, and to try and mount a fan inside the rail (assuming the vibration isn't too much) - I'm not massively set on having them there, whilst its aesthetically pleasing I can see that placement causing all sorts of headaches while I'm trying to diagnose things!
    If motor heat is a concern (and generally they are designed to run hot without a problem, worth a quick check of the specs) you could always plumb them into the water-cooling loop you will have anyway for the spindle. Just a generic water block attached to the motors enough to pull away a good amount of heat - i've seen similar done for 3d printers where the motors are inside of the heated enclosure.

    Overall design looks very nice, you've clearly done a good deal of reading and research. I'm sure it'll be a good machine!

    End machining will be different re pulley or direct coupling. That is not to say you couldn't make a direct drive coupling end work with a pulley, you'll just be making your life more complicated.... go with best angular contact bearings you can afford.
    Last edited by Zeeflyboy; 26-11-2018 at 08:37 PM.

  9. #19
    AndyUK's Avatar
    Lives in Southampton, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 14.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeflyboy View Post
    If motor heat is a concern (and generally they are designed to run hot without a problem, worth a quick check of the specs) you could always plumb them into the water-cooling loop you will have anyway for the spindle. Just a generic water block attached to the motors enough to pull away a good amount of heat - i've seen similar done for 3d printers where the motors are inside of the heated enclosure.
    What a great idea! It was only this morning I was pondering making some sort of heatsink for them. Last night I read a thread on here from July which was quite negative about enclosed motors. I'd been thinking along the lines of aluminium block and some copper heat pipes, but water cooling is an excellent idea which deserves investigation :)

    http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/12075...ubing-X-Y-axis

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeflyboy View Post
    Overall design looks very nice, you've clearly done a good deal of reading and research. I'm sure it'll be a good machine!
    Thanks! As I say, mostly ideas are 'borrowed' from others ;) I'd love to make something that looks as professional as your current project (I love the way everything is covered and enclosed on yours) but I think that is a bit beyond me for now... maybe next time eh? :)


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeflyboy View Post
    End machining will be different re pulley or direct coupling. That is not to say you couldn't make a direct drive coupling end work with a pulley, you'll just be making your life more complicated.... go with best angular contact bearings you can afford.
    Cool, thanks for the tip. I'm currently discussing Clive's suggestion with Fred, and taking his advice as he clearly knows his stuff. Hopefully not too far away from getting these major components ordered. Going to go with the upgraded bearings, and I'm also taking the opportunity to get the Spindle + VFD while I'm at it from someone reputable. Hopefully will also cut down on the shipping costs.
    Last edited by AndyUK; 26-11-2018 at 11:16 PM.

  10. #20
    AndyUK's Avatar
    Lives in Southampton, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 14.
    Very exciting package just arrived!

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    Still working my way through it, but all looks spot on so far. Very pleased and impressed by Fred.

    For those of you who are trying to price up your builds in the future, I think this set me back approx 1150. It includes everything you see above - all my rails, ballscrews (+bearings and mounts), and spindle, inclusive of delivery, VAT and Customs. I think it would have cost ~2000 from a UK (re-)seller.
    Last edited by AndyUK; 14-12-2018 at 06:35 PM.

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