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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jtar40 View Post

    (-I'm not sure if I mentioned it before but if it's relevant, I have 3 nema 23 stepper motors running off 3 amps and I was thinking of getting a uc300eth as the interface, I didn't really put much thought into the breakout board yet because I've been told it can be quite general for the simple 3axis cnc router machine I'm looking for making.)
    I have the UC300ETH, but unless you feel you need many inputs/outputs the UC400 is in my opinion better because it is easier to box it. The power connection on the UC300 is a bit misplaced, and been inherited from the UC300USB. No big deal, but it is a bit irritating. If I buy another one it will be the UC400ETH because I don't need the analogue inputs/outputs and two ports are enough. I have two very cheap, $5 BOBs and they have been working well for about two years now. You can also buy a more expensive, industry quality BOB as well, but it is very expensive (but looks better). The analogue outputs are not needed to control the VFD if you have a BOB with 0-10V PWM out. I control mine via Modbus, which I think is much better, so I don't use any analogue outputs at all.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    Are you kidding? The OP replaces TB6560 drivers and talks about Arduino...
    No I'm not Kidding and the OP ask's for suggestions for Good drives and to advise he buys old Analog technology is bad advise IMO.

    Like I say just because your using them and happy with them doesn't make them good. It just means you don't know any better. You've already proven this by saying you havent used Digital drives so can't possibly know the difference.

    Also to claim your machine is fast as it can get and is better than any other stepper machine is just plain ridiculous when your using analog drives with 50Vdc drives. Digital drives running stepper motors with 70Vdc will blow any analog drive with motors running 45Vdc out the water on every level.
    Even like for like on voltage Digital drives will make difference to both speed and smoothness.

    Regards the Controller making a big difference then your correct. However this is also a area where Digital drives make a huge difference over Analog when not using good motion controller Ie: PP because they handle resonance and lower grade signals so much better.

    This isn't about Digital is better just for the sake of it. The truth is, whether you care to accept it or not, is that Digital is better for several reasons and anyone who has had shity Analog drives will tell you this.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Desertboy View Post
    You can't go wrong with AM882's
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leadshine...n/282651392228

    Or EM806 (Which seem functionally identical to AM882)
    https://www.zappautomation.co.uk/ele...ion/em806.html

    I have AM882's very happy with them.

    I think you're better off spending the money on decent digital drivers and a cheap BOB than cheap drivers but expensive controller. It's cheaper to upgrade the BOB than the drivers and gets you working ASAP.
    What would be the point of buying 8A drivers to run 3A motors with? "Better" is a relative... is it 4-5 times better than the DQ542MA? It MUST be 4-5 times better to motivate the price difference, but I doubt that. Sure, with unlimited budget, no question about it, but I still doubt there is ANY benefit at all to use 8A drivers to run 3A motors. Also, the UC300ETH is not an "expensive" controller at all, quite the opposite, but again, even "expensive" is very relative.

    Also, the OP asked about reliable recommendations, not just eBay guessing. It is pretty easy to list a bunch of expensive parts and claim they are "better" without describing what they are better at and why or how. Of course, very few really KNOWS because very few people actually tried many different drivers, controllers, bobs in all kind of combinations.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    What would be the point of buying 8A drivers to run 3A motors with?
    I must have missed the actual motor spec, all I saw was that they were running off 3A, I have a set of NEMA 23 steppers that are rated 4.2A :D
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    No I'm not Kidding and the OP ask's for suggestions for Good drives and to advise he buys old Analog technology is bad advise IMO.
    Fine, but then why debate with me and not giving him better advise?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Like I say just because your using them and happy with them doesn't make them good. It just means you don't know any better. You've already proven this by saying you havent used Digital drives so can't possibly know the difference.
    My own experience is just as valid as anybody else's, but if I am wrong, fine, explain why and where so we all can learn something. Saying that I am wrong does not help anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Also to claim your machine is fast as it can get and is better than any other stepper machine is just plain ridiculous when your using analog drives with 50Vdc drives. Digital drives running stepper motors with 70Vdc will blow any analog drive with motors running 45Vdc out the water on every level.
    Even like for like on voltage Digital drives will make difference to both speed and smoothness.
    It doesn't help if in theory it can spin faster when in reality the limits of the ball screw is reached. Of course, if you just spin the motor milling air (or just spinning) then it may be smoother and faster but will you REALLY see any difference in real use? Will the difference REALLY be as much as the difference in price? I doubt that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Regards the Controller making a big difference then your correct. However this is also a area where Digital drives make a huge difference over Analog when not using good motion controller Ie: PP because they handle resonance and lower grade signals so much better.

    This isn't about Digital is better just for the sake of it. The truth is, whether you care to accept it or not, is that Digital is better for several reasons and anyone who has had shity Analog drives will tell you this.
    "Shitty driver" is the TB chips based drivers, not the DQ542MA. Anybody who claims the DQ542MA is a "shitty driver" has no idea about what he is talking about. Yes, no doubt that the digital drivers are better, the question is just how much better. Dismissing my experience is fine by me, but if you want to help the OP then answer his questions. I'll be fine with my "shitty drivers" as long as they do what they are expected to do, run as smooth and fast as they do and are as reliable as they are.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    What would be the point of buying 8A drivers to run 3A motors with? "Better" is a relative... is it 4-5 times better than the DQ542MA? It MUST be 4-5 times better to motivate the price difference, but I doubt that. Sure, with unlimited budget, no question about it, but I still doubt there is ANY benefit at all to use 8A drivers to run 3A motors. Also, the UC300ETH is not an "expensive" controller at all, quite the opposite, but again, even "expensive" is very relative.

    Also, the OP asked about reliable recommendations, not just eBay guessing. It is pretty easy to list a bunch of expensive parts and claim they are "better" without describing what they are better at and why or how. Of course, very few really KNOWS because very few people actually tried many different drivers, controllers, bobs in all kind of combinations.
    If you want to upgrade the controller and spent $5 on a BOB then you are out of pocket $5, if you want to upgrade the drivers you are out of pocket 120 for 4

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cnc-4-2A-...MAAOxyni9TFCPq

    To me spend the cash on the AM882's for stall protection and use a cheap BOB then upgrade the electronics later when budget allows.

    A cheap BOB is also compatible with mach 3 and linuxcnc so you can try both before locking yourself into a vendor without trying the software out.

    It's basically double the cost for AM882's and then the extra cost for supplying 70v instead of 48v, you'll see most of us with 80v drivers make a PSU with transformer, rectifier and capacitors which adds another 70 making 4*AM882, PSU and BOB 320 which is to me the minimum spec for building a new router.

    With a cheap PP BOB and a reasonable latency PC if you set microsteps to 8 (Or even 2 on slow PC) you'll get good enough performance to run at max speed on any home machine.
    Last edited by Desertboy; 05-04-2018 at 10:55 AM.
    http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880...60cm-work-area My first CNC build WIP 120cm*80cm

    If you didn't buy it from China the company you bought it from did ;)

  7. #27
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 17 Hours Ago Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 573. Received thanks 80 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    You could get EM503's, which are 50V and 4.2A, but AM882's are cheaper. I've payed as little as $58 for AM882's.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
    UCCNC 2017 Screenset

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    JointCAM - CAM for Woodworking Joints

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Desertboy View Post
    If you want to upgrade the controller and spent $5 on a BOB then you are out of pocket $5, if you want to upgrade the drivers you are out of pocket 120 for 4

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cnc-4-2A-...MAAOxyni9TFCPq

    To me spend the cash on the AM882's for stall protection and use a cheap BOB then upgrade the electronics later when budget allows.

    A cheap BOB is also compatible with mach 3 and linuxcnc so you can try both before locking yourself into a vendor without trying the software out.

    It's basically double the cost for AM882's and then the extra cost for supplying 70v instead of 48v, you'll see most of us with 80v drivers make a PSU with transformer, rectifier and capacitors which adds another 70 making 4*AM882, PSU and BOB 320 which is to me the minimum spec for building a new router.

    With a cheap PP BOB and a reasonable latency PC if you set microsteps to 8 (Or even 2 on slow PC) you'll get good enough performance to run at max speed on any home machine.
    I still don't understand what the benefit would be in using 8A drivers with 3A motors. In my opinion that's overkill. Also, if I would spend that much on the driver I would NOT buy a cheap BOB. I understand that the AM882 has stall protection, but come on... is it really a huge issue? After all, stall is a cause of wrong use or configuration. Also, why not the DM542T? It is more of a realistic match for the 3A motors than the AM882 and is much cheaper. Yes, the AM882 is 80V while the DM542T is only 50V, but again, if a machine is well built you will hit the speed limit anyway, even with the 50V drivers.
    Last edited by A_Camera; 05-04-2018 at 02:09 PM.

  9. #29
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 7 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,069. Received thanks 232 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    I still don't understand what the benefit would be in using 8A drivers with 3A motors. In my opinion that's overkill. Also, if I would spend that much on the driver I would NOT buy a cheap BOB. I understand that the AM882 has stall protection, but come on... is it really a huge issue? After all, stall is a cause of wrong use or configuration. Also, why not the DM542T? It is more of a realistic match for the 3A motors than the AM882 and is much cheaper. Yes, the AM882 is 80V while the DM542T is only 50V, but again, if a machine is well built you will hit the speed limit anyway, even with the 50V drivers.
    Current and voltage has little to do with the reason.
    DM/Q drives are older technology.
    AM/EM drives are the latest technology, with the benefits of auto-tuning and anti-resonance. Both of which mean the drives have much better performance for any given power supply or motor. Stall detection is just an additional feature, which on dual motor axes, can greatly limit racking damage should a stall occur, and can also stop things on single motor axes, should something go wrong. You've got to remember, it's not just over tuning that can cause stalling, crashes can as well.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    Fine, but then why debate with me and not giving him better advise?
    I didn't need to give OP any advise because the correct advice had already been given by others. Unfortunately thou not by you and thou you don't like to hear this it must be said for the benifit of others.



    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    My own experience is just as valid as anybody else's, but if I am wrong, fine, explain why and where so we all can learn something. Saying that I am wrong does not help anyone.
    Yes your advise if valid agreed to a point.! . . But to spout and I quote "My machine is as fast as it can get and is much better than most other stepper based machines with direct driven ball screws can do, so I really don't know where digital drives could make a difference."
    without any experience of ever using Digital drives and probably with same amount of experience of other machines with same setup to me just cancels out any validity to anything you said.


    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    It doesn't help if in theory, it can spin faster when in reality the limits of the ball screw is reached. Of course, if you just spin the motor milling air (or just spinning) then it may be smoother and faster but will you REALLY see any difference in real use? Will the difference REALLY be as much as the difference in price? I doubt that.
    How do you know you have reached the limit of the ballscrew.? I'm guessing your using 5mm pitch screw and I can tell you with 100% certainty thru lots of experience that 50V Analog drive with 3A motor, which will probably be running 40-45Vdc cannot get any where near the limit of 5mm Pitch screw that is correctly fitted. Even a 50V Digital drive with same voltage won't get near it's limit.

    I suspect your going to quote ballscrews Critical speed in reply to this but I'm talking real world usage which is very different thing so don't waste your fingers.


    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    "Shitty driver" is the TB chips based drivers, not the DQ542MA. Anybody who claims the DQ542MA is a "shitty driver" has no idea about what he is talking about. Yes, no doubt that the digital drivers are better, the question is just how much better. Dismissing my experience is fine by me, but if you want to help the OP then answer his questions.
    No your the one who has no idea what he's talking about and here's why. The DQ542MA are just copies of original leadshine M542. Which in there day were just an average Analog drive, nothing special. As time went on Analog drives got little better with more advanced chopper circuits etc but still had limits/issues under certain setup/circumstances.
    Jump forward several years and Digital drive arrived and even the early drives where major advancement from analog drives and when compairing to Cheap copies of Analog drive like DQ542MA where very big difference.

    The current crop of Digital drives are light years more advanced than Analog drives with the end result being far superior performence gains in overall speed and much smoother performance at lower speeds and generally across the rull RPM range compared to Analog.
    Combined then these make considerable difference in performance and I've seen machines with Old Analog drives which struggled to reach 1000 rpm instantly spin same motors at 1500rpm with smoother action and far less heating.

    Now just to show I'm not just talking theory or got feeling in my water Digital may be better.! Watch these videos which I took to try and show others the difference Digital drives make. Also Just note that the videos don't actually tell the true picture or show the true difference in sound or smoothness. The same machine with only a drive change went from a maximum rapid speed of 8mtr/min to 15mtr/min.!! . . . And if you still think I'm bull shitting then I've got witness who can back this up in form of Clive S.

    Anyone who's done there research on this forum will have seen that many many times I've expalined and shown why Digital is better. Every thing I advise is based on real world hands on experience, like wise If I recommend or call something bad it's based on me using or experiencing this product. Or I make it clear I've not used them but know from trusted sources that are good/bad.

    Unlike you I would never put down or Dismiss something without first experiencing. Also I do get tired of repeating my self so please don't try giving me shit because I've not choosen to repeat my self but instead decided to try helping others by highlighting your Bad advise.



    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 05-04-2018 at 09:22 PM.

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