Isel 4433 - Can I use Mach3 with it?

[john swift]

yes thats why I said in post 7
"a generic breakout board connected to an old PC's parallel printer port will be cheaper"

an old 32 bit windows 7 PC* with a parallel printer port will work

the smooth stepper emulates 3 printer ports and can be added later once you have the cnc machine working
(* mach3 only works with a parallel printerport when using a 32bit OS)

laptops can be a problem , built in power saving features clash with mach3's low level control of the printer port
some laptops don't have a proper parallel printer port
they have a USB to parallel printer port converter that only works with printers !

John

[loudew]

Sorry John, I misread that! So this wouldn't harm accuracy?
Thanks,
L

[Doddy]

loudew: A BoB might introduce a degree of uncertainty (what I mean is that it's dependent on the performance of the host PC, rather than offloading the motion control onto the controller), BUT... you've got a journey to travel to understand how the build-up the machine. If cost is an issue then a £5-£10 BoB can introduce a degree of predictable control provided that you have a desktop with a parallel port and typically XP o/s. The worst case is that you're out the £5/£10, but other cases are that when you later decide whether to introduce a motion controller then you might well re-use the BoB (e.g. the UCxxx motion controllers).

I would say, though, is cost is sensitive then hold off buying anything until you take possession of the machine and a screwdriver.

[loudew]

Okay. I think my budget for this solution is around £40. I don't have a spare winXP machine, I have a spare win10 machine but it doesn't have a parallel port either. If only there was a cheaper ESS! Thank you both for the help
L

EDIT:
What do you think about this? Firstly, is it the correct thing? Will it work?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-3-Axi....c100005.m1851

EDIT 2:
or this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-Axis-50...75.c100623.m-1


EDIT 3:
Or this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MACH3-4Ax....c100005.m1851

[Doddy]

There are several threads of USB vs Ethernet motion controllers - it would be worth researching these. I've never used a USB controller (though the seller of the Starmill that I picked up did). I've the ethernet version of the first link (a NVEM controller), which is okay, works, but nothing special.

Ignoring the prejudice against the USB motion controllers (and many people do use them) then they could be an affordable alternative to the parallel BoB.

Regarding your budget - remember, the BoB or motion controller is only a small part of the overall solution. You might find that you need to buy stepper drivers as well - at a cost of £20 upwards each. This, and the underlying PSU will help to define the performance that you can expect from the machine - you need to go into this with eyes wide-open on the likely costs.

[loudew]

Okay. I will research into Ethernet VS USB. Is the stepper control pulse output rating anything to take into account? It seems the cheaper I go, the lower the frequency. I am hoping that it is just the board I need to replace - will try and look at the electronics on Monday.
Cheers,
L

EDIT:
Could using the software KAY be a way to get around the issue of not being able to load G-Code?
Thanks
L

[loudew]

Sorry to continually bother you with my ridiculous inquiries, but I have been looking at TB6600 stepper drivers on eBay and have found these. If I do need to buy stepper drivers, would these suffice?
As I said, I am a newbie when it comes to CNCs (and a 16 year-old with no income!) so I do apologize if any of my questions are ridiculous!
Thanks
L

Drivers:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TB6600-Si...3fa9e22480dcd0

[Doddy]

Okay. I will research into Ethernet VS USB. Is the stepper control pulse output rating anything to take into account? It seems the cheaper I go, the lower the frequency. I am hoping that it is just the board I need to replace - will try and look at the electronics on Monday.
Cheers,
L

The pulse frequency describes a relationship with the maximum axis velocity. Imagine:- Let's say your machine has a 5mm screw pitch, but say a 2:1 belt drive (not unusual) giving an effective 2.5mm pitch (1 revolution of the stepper, through the 2:1 drive results in half a revolution of the screw, therefore the nut will travel 2.5mm). Now lets say that you have 16 micro steps configured for whatever reason - again, not an unusual number, and that your stepper has 200 steps per revolution. With micro-stepping, that gives 16x200 = 3200 steps per revolution, or, with the belt reduction and screw pitch, that's 3200 steps per 2.5mm of travel. Now, factor in the motion controller's frequency - let's say it's 50kHz - or 50,000 times a second, then that infers the maximum axis velocity would be 50,000/3,200 x 2.5 mm/second, or a little under 40mm/second (someone check my math - too early in the morning and that final G&T last night was one too many).

As to what feed rate you need - much depends on what you're cutting, how you're cutting, your tooling and the machine's own limits. I'm not comfortable to advise in that direction - that's for you to research (google "Feeds and Speeds").

For reference, on my cheap XP machine, pre-motion controller I was using a kernel speed of 25kHz on a small desktop milling machine.

EDIT:
Could using the software KAY be a way to get around the issue of not being able to load G-Code?
Thanks
L

No experience - I'll let others comment if they know the software.

[Doddy]

Sorry to continually bother you with my ridiculous inquiries, but I have been looking at TB6600 stepper drivers on eBay and have found these. If I do need to buy stepper drivers, would these suffice?
As I said, I am a newbie when it comes to CNCs (and a 16 year-old with no income!) so I do apologize if any of my questions are ridiculous!
Thanks
L

As a fifty-year old with a wife - I probably have less disposable income!

Now, that link demonstrates the old adage... Lies, Damned Lies, then Chinese traders on eBay.

Let's just take a look at the headline of a TB6600 stepper motor driver data sheet...

"TB6600HG
The TB6600HG is a PWM chopper-type single-chip bipolar sinusoidal micro-step stepping motor driver. Forward and reverse rotation control is available with 2-phase, 1-2-phase, W1-2-phase, 2W1-2-phase, and 4W1-2-phase excitation modes. 2-phase bipolar-type stepping motor can be driven by only clock signal with low vibration and high efficiency.

Features
• Single-chip bipolar sinusoidal micro-step stepping motor driver
• Ron (upper + lower) = 0.4 Ω (typ.)
• Forward and reverse rotation control available
• Selectable phase drive (1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16 step)
• Output withstand voltage: Vcc = 50 V
• Output current: IOUT = 5.0 A (absolute maximum ratings, peak)
IOUT = 4.5 A (operating range, maximal value)"

So, micro-steps of 1,2,4,8,16. Max current drive of 5A, Max working voltage of 50V.

Compare that to the controller linked.

micro-steps 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32. Max current drive of 4A (peak),Max working voltage of 40V.

It's most likely not a TB6600!, just creative labelling of the unit to imply a TB6600 driver. Google "Fake TB6600" for an entertaining read. Some, including the ones that I bought, actually use a TB67S109AFTG chip which is a tiny quad-pin surface mount device. Without any detailed understanding of the technologies, one simple view is that the "real" TB6600s are whopping big devices hard-bound to a reasonably large heatsink, whereas the TB67S109AFTG are tiny things with less than optimal heat sinks to dissipate heat. What this might mean (and did for me) is that if you're driving a stepper with a voltage and current rating close to the limits then you might well find that the driver shuts down due to thermal overload (self-protection circuitry) and you lose the motion temporarily on that one axis. That inevitably means you've screwed the workpiece that you're cutting.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TB6600-0-...MAAOSwOu9ckgS1 <-- That link looks, at least according to the advert (remember, "Lies, Damned Lies, and Chinese Hong Kong traders on eBay") more like a "real" TB6600 and I'd certainly prefer this over the link that you provided (actually, these are the ones that I replaced the one that you linked to when suffering the poor performance). They are not the best in the world (they barely make it off the second-rung of the ladder) but they are more affordable if you're on a budget.

Best advice remains - wait and see what's in the control box of the machine when you collect.

Next best advice - keep your eyes wide open on this as a hobby - it's very hard to do without some money.

Next bit of advice - buy that machine for £250. Sell it online for a lot more. Blow the money on some girl.*

* I know I'm not allowed to say that in these enlightened times.

[loudew]

Hahah! I had thought about buying it and then just flipping it, allowing me to get a brand new machine that could be better (or a girl!). However, I am not sure how much I would list it for. It has minor scratches on the cabinet window but nothing major - works just fine apparently. Now thinking about it, if the amount I will spend on the machine to get it functioning with g-code is going to be even £50+, I might as well just sell it - not much point in keeping an older machine when I could get a new one!
I am going to look at it before thinking about a list price, however, recommendations would be great.
Cheers
L