N0VUSUN and Mitsubishi-D700-SC

[Daveo]

Hi All
Need bit of help, i have all my electrics done and working on the test bench with the exception to the VFD, its working and the spindle runs but i want to connect it via the controller and Mach 3 but not sure of the connections
i have attached some photos and a link to the manual.
https://inverterdrive.com/file/Mitsu...0-SC-EC-Manual
Thanks Dave

[JAZZCNC]

Ok well you have the Nvem S-axis wired up so were are you running those wires.?

I've never used either of these but I've wired many others controllers and VFD's and they all pretty much work the same.
Here's where I think they should go after looking at both manuals.

S-axis /Gnd1 goes to terminal 5 on Vfd which is Analog Gdn
S-axis/VSO goes to terminal 2 on VFD which is 0-10V.

This is your 0-10V speed reference voltage. Terminal 10 on the VFD is a 10V speed reference voltage in case if you wanted to use a potentiometer (POT) and would go to the wiper of the POT. In this case you don't need it because the Nvem supplys the 0-10V

S-axis/Out1 goes to STF on VFD (forward rotation)
S-axis/Out2 goes to STR on VFD (Reverse rotation)

Edited: After reading Nvem Manual little more.

However this would mean you have to tie the VFD control logic Gnd which is Terminal PC on the VFD to the same supply Gnd that the Nvem uses.
(this bit I'm not sure about now because I would have expected the Analog Gnd to be separate to the Output Gnd and it doesn't appear so reading the Nvem manual.?)

You may be better and safer for the VFD using separate relays controlled by the Outputs to control the Run/Stop on the VFD by running the VFD connections thru it's contacts.

All your basicly doing is using Outputs 1 & 2 on the Nvem to turn on/off the RUN signal on the VFD by shorting STF/STR to PC(Gnd).

Then it's just a case of setting up the Outputs for Forward/Rev and Pulley speeds in Mach3 which the manual should tell you how.

Hope this helps.

[Daveo]

Ok well you have the Nvem S-axis wired up so were are you running those wires.?


I've never used either of these but I've wired many others controllers and VFD's and they all pretty much work the same.
Here's where I think they should go after looking at both manuals.

S-axis /Gnd1 goes to terminal 5 on Vfd which is Analog Gdn
S-axis/VSO goes to terminal 2 on VFD which is 0-10V.

This is your 0-10V speed reference voltage. Terminal 10 on the VFD is a 10V speed reference voltage in case if you wanted to use a potentiometer (POT) and would go to the wiper of the POT. In this case you don't need it because the Nvem supplys the 0-10V

S-axis/Out1 goes to STF on VFD (forward rotation)
S-axis/Out2 goes to STR on VFD (Reverse rotation)

However this would mean you have to tie the VFD control logic Gnd which is Terminal PC on the VFD to the same supply Gnd that the Nvem uses and this would need to be 24Vdc because that's what the VFD requires.


Or if your using a lower voltage say 12V to run the Nvem then you would need to connect the Out1 and Out2 to relays which use 12V coils and then put the STF and STR thru the relay contacts and back to PC on the VFD.

All your basicly doing is using Outputs 1 & 2 on the Nvem to turn on/off the RUN signal on the VFD by shorting STF/STR to PC(Gnd).

Then it's just a case of setting up the Outputs for Forward/Rev and Pulley speeds in Mach3 which the manual should tell you how.

Hope this helps.

[Daveo]

Hi JAZZCNC
thanks for your reply,
Ok well you have the Nvem S-axis wired up so were are you running those wires.?

Nvem S-Axis out1 Orange and White twisted pr goes to STF on the VFD
Nvem S-Axis out2 Green and White twisted pr goes to STR on the VFD
The other two twisted pairs blue and white,brown and white have not been connected as yet but looks like terminal 5 and 2 after reading your reply

S-axis /Gnd1 goes to terminal 5 on Vfd which is Analog Gdn
S-axis/VSO goes to terminal 2 on VFD which is 0-10V.

[JAZZCNC]

Hi JAZZCNC
thanks for your reply,
Ok well you have the Nvem S-axis wired up so were are you running those wires.?

Nvem S-Axis out1 Orange and White twisted pr goes to STF on the VFD
Nvem S-Axis out2 Green and White twisted pr goes to STR on the VFD
The other two twisted pairs blue and white,brown and white have not been connected as yet but looks like terminal 5 and 2 after reading your reply

S-axis /Gnd1 goes to terminal 5 on Vfd which is Analog Gdn
S-axis/VSO goes to terminal 2 on VFD which is 0-10V.

Read my edited reply.

[Daveo]

JAZZCNC
Thanks for your help and it has got me further then i was but i am not sure to do now
Edited: After reading Nvem Manual little more.

However this would mean you have to tie the VFD control logic Gnd which is Terminal PC on the VFD to the same supply Gnd that the Nvem uses.
(this bit I'm not sure about now because I would have expected the Analog Gnd to be separate to the Output Gnd and it doesn't appear so reading the Nvem manual.?)

You may be better and safer for the VFD using separate relays controlled by the Outputs to control the Run/Stop on the VFD by running the VFD connections thru it's contacts.

All your basicly doing is using Outputs 1 & 2 on the Nvem to turn on/off the RUN signal on the VFD by shorting STF/STR to PC(Gnd).

Then it's just a case of setting up the Outputs for Forward/Rev and Pulley speeds in Mach3 which the manual should tell you how.

Hope this helps.

do i need to use relays as the power supply for the Nvem is 24v
Thanks Dave

[JAZZCNC]

Dave the thing that's concerning me is that Analog Gnd is shared with the Common Gnd to the outputs and not isolated. I'm sure it will work as I described but it's not a good setup in my eyes for the reasons Doddy stated with noise etc feeding back into the Analog and vise versa.!

Personaly I would feel more safe by using the outputs to control a relay and then feed the For/Rev thru it's contacts then if any stray voltages/currents get fired out they don't fry the VFD logic. You still may get noise issues and the Odd strange behavior but at least the VFD is safe.

Also regards your earlier comment about twisted wires and not being too concerned about noise, then if your actually wiring the machine rather than just testing on the bench I strongly suggest you re-think that because if you get any noise issues it will send you crazy and I mean proper hair pulling sessions so it's worth doing correctly straight off the bat.

[Doddy]

Dave, sorry, I'm morbidly curious as to your choice of wiring the CAT-x UTP cable with each pair connected together. There's nothing much wrong with this and it probably presents a clean and cheap 4-core cable and bi-wiring each pair like this will reduce the resistance of the wire. But you used the term twisted-pair, and that has a particular connotation with respect to EMI - I guess you're aware that the way that you've wired that is not exploiting the twisted-pair?

Anyway, that's casual banter. If I'm going to reply I'll try to add some value. Jazz is correct - you're having to short the analogue and digital ground together for the VFD. I did do this on mine, also a NVEM, and it worked, though I did get some fluctuation in final spindle speed that may or may not have been associated with this and a ground loop. I never did find out what because I replaced the analogue speed control with a £2 RS485 serial link to the VFD.

[Daveo]

OK, thanks for the advice
so below is where i stand on the wiring and that makes sence...

Nvem S-Axis out1 Orange and White twisted pr goes to STF on the VFD
Nvem S-Axis out2 Green and White twisted pr goes to STR on the VFD
The other two twisted pairs blue and white,brown and white have not been connected as yet but looks like terminal 5 and 2 after reading your reply

S-axis /Gnd1 goes to terminal 5 on Vfd which is Analog Gdn
S-axis/VSO goes to terminal 2 on VFD which is 0-10V.

just a bit confused on the last part...

Doddy
Jazz is correct - you're having to short the analogue and digital ground together for the VFD. I did do this on mine, also a NVEM, and it worked, though I did get some fluctuation in final spindle speed that may or may not have been associated with this and a ground loop. I never did find out what because I replaced the analogue speed control with a £2 RS485 serial link to the VFD.
just a bit more info on what i need to do here.

[Doddy]

OK, thanks for the advice
so below is where i stand on the wiring and that makes sence...

Nvem S-Axis out1 Orange and White twisted pr goes to STF on the VFD
Nvem S-Axis out2 Green and White twisted pr goes to STR on the VFD
The other two twisted pairs blue and white,brown and white have not been connected as yet but looks like terminal 5 and 2 after reading your reply

S-axis /Gnd1 goes to terminal 5 on Vfd which is Analog Gdn
S-axis/VSO goes to terminal 2 on VFD which is 0-10V.

just a bit confused on the last part...

Doddy
Jazz is correct - you're having to short the analogue and digital ground together for the VFD. I did do this on mine, also a NVEM, and it worked, though I did get some fluctuation in final spindle speed that may or may not have been associated with this and a ground loop. I never did find out what because I replaced the analogue speed control with a £2 RS485 serial link to the VFD.
just a bit more info on what i need to do here.

That last bit - and this is with reference to the commonplace Huanyang VFD - the discrete for FOR/REV have a digital ground (short to ground to activate), labelled DCM, and the analogue speed control had an analogue ground, labelled ACM. For the NVEM with a single ground you have to short the ACM and DCM together to get a common ground (or export two grounds from the NVEM to the ACM/DCM ground references on the VFD).

Now, just reading your linked VFD reference it's clear that the control mechanism is very difference to the Huanyang. The STF/STR need to be pulled up (not down, as with the Huanyang) to the internal PC +24V supply. At this stage my suggestion would be to use the NVEM to drive separate relays and use the relay contacts to connect as per the manual. I'll shut-up now, Jazz is giving clear instruction and it helps no-one for me to talk over the top of another.