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Thread: eBay router

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Owner View Post
    The machine on ebay cuts aluminium fine, all day long, despite being designed for cutting MDF. Nice clean cuts even in thin 1050 sheet.

    In comparison to others in similar price bracket, i.e. 60/90 chinese routers, Xcarve and so on, it's far better.

    Could the machines be better, yes, could the finish be better, yes but for around £2500k after some basic mods they work well.
    Hi Chip,

    Sorry but while it may cut aluminum there's a huge difference between scratching and cutting and I now just from looking at the design and build quality that the finish quality and cutting depths etc must be compromised when cutting aluminum.
    The gantry is so flimsy that finish quality cannot be great and if any decent DOC was taken it would vibrate like holy hell. Even if using trochoidal (adaptive, i-Machining, etc.) tool paths with constant engagement which take a lower chip load I'd be surprised if the finish wasn't poor because of the high feed rates causing vibrations in the frame and gantry which transfer to the tool.

    I know it's not what you want to hear me saying, esp as I suspect with you being located in Cumbria that you might have something to do with this company. But I've built enough machines to know what it takes to cut aluminum properly with a good finish and this machine isn't strong enough IMO. . . . And I'm not even bring rail parallelism and accuracy, etc into the argument which again has a huge impact on finished work.!!
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

    Email: dean@jazzcnc.co.uk

    Web site: www.jazzcnc.co.uk

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Owner View Post
    . Our current bits allow cutting of 1050 sheet at 1150mm-1300mm - with a nice clean cut requiring minimal cleanup. We're changing to a slightly higher grade on next tool order to increase cutting speeds further.
    I am intrigued to know what cutters, speeds, feeds and coolant you are using. I sometimes cut 1050 sheet (2 and 3mm thick) and it's the gooiest material I have found apart from some plastics.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Hi Chip,

    Sorry but while it may cut aluminum there's a huge difference between scratching and cutting and I now just from looking at the design and build quality that the finish quality and cutting depths etc must be compromised when cutting aluminum.
    The gantry is so flimsy that finish quality cannot be great and if any decent DOC was taken it would vibrate like holy hell. Even if using trochoidal (adaptive, i-Machining, etc.) tool paths with constant engagement which take a lower chip load I'd be surprised if the finish wasn't poor because of the high feed rates causing vibrations in the frame and gantry which transfer to the tool.

    I know it's not what you want to hear me saying, esp as I suspect with you being located in Cumbria that you might have something to do with this company. But I've built enough machines to know what it takes to cut aluminum properly with a good finish and this machine isn't strong enough IMO. . . . And I'm not even bring rail parallelism and accuracy, etc into the argument which again has a huge impact on finished work.!!
    Hi Dean
    I put a post up in reply to one of your posts regarding this a few days ago, but I don't know if you have seen it.
    I want a CNC router, say 1000 x1000 or preferably half 4x8 ft sheet so that in two steps, I could route/mill a 4x8 foot sheet when needed
    If I did want to build one myself with the main purpose of routing aluminium sheets and milling alumium parts, what would your suggestions be for me to build one ? Ie are there any plans out there that you would recommend to base my build on ? I do have access to a manual mill and lathe (Warco ones)
    Alternatively, I noted in one of your posts that you also build machines. Would would it cost for you to build me such a fit for purpose machine ?
    Many thanks

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by cncmystic View Post
    Hi Dean
    I put a post up in reply to one of your posts regarding this a few days ago, but I don't know if you have seen it.
    No sorry didn't see it but I am very busy so only skimming forum every other day so must missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cncmystic View Post
    If I did want to build one myself with the main purpose of routing aluminium sheets and milling alumium parts, what would your suggestions be for me to build one ?
    Well, this is the issue, profile cutting thin (2-3mm) aluminum sheet isn't that taxing provided your using correct tools and feeds which is why these weaker machines can do that. However, cutting or milling thicker parts with a good rate of material removal with good finish quality and accuracy is a completely different story and requires a very sturdy machine which is why I know these machines cannot handle it or do a very good job.

    As the machine gets larger then it gets even harder so really you need to decide what's most important to you, sheet cutting, or milling.? Because two very different machines are required. Large machines don't lend them selfs to milling aluminum very well unless heavily built so be prepared for it to cost more money.



    Quote Originally Posted by cncmystic View Post
    Ie are there any plans out there that you would recommend to base my build on ? I do have access to a manual mill and lathe (Warco ones)
    Alternatively, I noted in one of your posts that you also build machines. Would would it cost for you to build me such a fit for purpose machine ?
    Many thanks
    Search the forum is my advise and look at machines with high sides and gantry sat directly on the rails. Boyan built a massively strong machine which is IMO OTT for most things but will happily Mill aluminum and steel to a lower level.

    I don't know of any plans that are any good.!

    The question I would ask your self is do you really need to MILL large aluminum parts that won't fit on a smaller machine which is much easier and cheaper to build. One machine that can do it all and to a good standard is very difficult to achieve and not cheap.

    If you are serious about me building a machine then contact me directly via PM giving me some idea of your budget and I'll see what I can offer you.
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

    Email: dean@jazzcnc.co.uk

    Web site: www.jazzcnc.co.uk

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Hi Chip,

    Sorry but while it may cut aluminum there's a huge difference between scratching and cutting and I now just from looking at the design and build quality that the finish quality and cutting depths etc must be compromised when cutting aluminum.
    The gantry is so flimsy that finish quality cannot be great and if any decent DOC was taken it would vibrate like holy hell. Even if using trochoidal (adaptive, i-Machining, etc.) tool paths with constant engagement which take a lower chip load I'd be surprised if the finish wasn't poor because of the high feed rates causing vibrations in the frame and gantry which transfer to the tool.

    I know it's not what you want to hear me saying, esp as I suspect with you being located in Cumbria that you might have something to do with this company. But I've built enough machines to know what it takes to cut aluminum properly with a good finish and this machine isn't strong enough IMO. . . . And I'm not even bring rail parallelism and accuracy, etc into the argument which again has a huge impact on finished work.!!
    Wow how insulting!

    Read my reply, this machine cuts and cuts beautifully and at speed, I missed off these are dry cuts, hence already planning bits that can cut up to 2000mm/minute feed rate, dry cut, single pass into aluminium.

    I also made it clear on the comparison positioning in the market for this product, it's not AXYZ but then not all of us have budgets or room for them!

    It's a router not a milling machine, it's designed for sheet stock.

    And no I have no association with this company, the difference is, I do own one and can speak from experience and not supposition.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Owner View Post
    Wow how insulting!

    Read my reply, this machine cuts and cuts beautifully and at speed, I missed off these are dry cuts, hence already planning bits that can cut up to 2000mm/minute feed rate, dry cut, single pass into aluminium.

    I also made it clear on the comparison positioning in the market for this product, it's not AXYZ but then not all of us have budgets or room for them!

    It's a router not a milling machine, it's designed for sheet stock.

    And no I have no association with this company, the difference is, I do own one and can speak from experience and not supposition.
    Ok well first my apologies it was not my intent to insult you.!

    The point of my comments was to point out that this machine is too weak to cut aluminum correctly and by that i mean with a good DOC and nice surface finish. Thin Sheet stock like 1050 is slightly different because it's simply getting the correct feed rates and cutting it in a single pass, the quality of edge finish isn't usually a big concern within reason.
    However, many of those looking at these machines who are new to CNC and want to cut aluminum want to actually Mill thick stock ie 20-30mm+ and these machines just cannot do that correctly because like you say they are designed for sheet stock. But comments like " The machine on ebay cuts aluminium fine, all day long, despite being designed for cutting MDF. Nice clean cuts even in thin 1050 sheet." gives a false impression and people buy based off these type of comments only to be disappointed. My comments are given to point these things out so folks are fully aware.!

    Now your comment about you being the "user and experience" then normally I would totally agree with you and usually I'm very reluctant to comment on a product I haven't used personally but in this case my experience of building many different sizes and styles of machines often for aluminum cutting means I am very qualified to critic this machine or any machine of the same design and build quality, even if it is only 2.5K.!

    Again please don't take what I'm about to say personally because it's more a statement of fact about what I often come across and given the fact you have bought this machine it may apply.!!
    Often I deal with people who have either bought or built machines and they think they work great and cut great or are built strong.!! . . When in fact they are actually performing low to medium and quite weakly built. They think this based on there experience which is formed just on that one machine or an even lesser quality machine and only when they see properly designed and built machine do they appreciate the difference.!
    So Experience is relative which is why I know anyone who as experience wouldn't buy this machine for cutting aluminum other than thin sheet.!! . . I wouldn't even buy it for cutting MDF if I'm honest but that's just me with my experience.!. . . . Would make a nice plasma machine thou.!
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

    Email: dean@jazzcnc.co.uk

    Web site: www.jazzcnc.co.uk

  7. #27
    Hi Dean ..
    You are right in that CNC routing and CNC milling are two different things, though they do overlap a certain amount.
    I am probabbly being too generic in my requirements.
    I have a requirement to mill thicker aluminium such as 25mm or thicker but not at 1000mm x 1000mm, but probably not more than 400 mm x 400 mm.
    I do have a requirement to route other materials like wood, ply, perspex, etc... at around a half 4ft x 8ft sheet so that I could do a full 4ft x 8ft sheet in two separate operations.
    I suppose I really should be looking at two machines for that rather than one machine to do it all
    I do have a warco WM16 manual mill that I am looking to convert to CNC but the throat size (as with most mills of that gender) is limited to about 140mm and with a bit of clever work with spinning the part around 180 degrees one could cut the part in two operations and perhaps achieve a part of up to around 250mm width which falls short of my ideal 400mm.
    What are your thoughts about which direction I should really be looking at to solve my requirements
    Many thanks Dean

    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    No sorry didn't see it but I am very busy so only skimming forum every other day so must missed it.



    Well, this is the issue, profile cutting thin (2-3mm) aluminum sheet isn't that taxing provided your using correct tools and feeds which is why these weaker machines can do that. However, cutting or milling thicker parts with a good rate of material removal with good finish quality and accuracy is a completely different story and requires a very sturdy machine which is why I know these machines cannot handle it or do a very good job.

    As the machine gets larger then it gets even harder so really you need to decide what's most important to you, sheet cutting, or milling.? Because two very different machines are required. Large machines don't lend them selfs to milling aluminum very well unless heavily built so be prepared for it to cost more money.





    Search the forum is my advise and look at machines with high sides and gantry sat directly on the rails. Boyan built a massively strong machine which is IMO OTT for most things but will happily Mill aluminum and steel to a lower level.

    I don't know of any plans that are any good.!

    The question I would ask your self is do you really need to MILL large aluminum parts that won't fit on a smaller machine which is much easier and cheaper to build. One machine that can do it all and to a good standard is very difficult to achieve and not cheap.

    If you are serious about me building a machine then contact me directly via PM giving me some idea of your budget and I'll see what I can offer you.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by cropwell View Post
    I am intrigued to know what cutters, speeds, feeds and coolant you are using. I sometimes cut 1050 sheet (2 and 3mm thick) and it's the gooiest material I have found apart from some plastics.
    Zero coolant, it's not needed. Correct tool, feed and speed created the right chip dispersing heat, a mild blast to further help disperse the chips from a low pressure hydroponics pump is the only external addition.

    I use bits supplied by LKHtools.co.uk

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Ok well first my apologies it was not my intent to insult you.!

    The point of my comments was to point out that this machine is too weak to cut aluminum correctly and by that i mean with a good DOC and nice surface finish. Thin Sheet stock like 1050 is slightly different because it's simply getting the correct feed rates and cutting it in a single pass, the quality of edge finish isn't usually a big concern within reason.
    However, many of those looking at these machines who are new to CNC and want to cut aluminum want to actually Mill thick stock ie 20-30mm+ and these machines just cannot do that correctly because like you say they are designed for sheet stock. But comments like " The machine on ebay cuts aluminium fine, all day long, despite being designed for cutting MDF. Nice clean cuts even in thin 1050 sheet." gives a false impression and people buy based off these type of comments only to be disappointed. My comments are given to point these things out so folks are fully aware.!

    Now your comment about you being the "user and experience" then normally I would totally agree with you and usually I'm very reluctant to comment on a product I haven't used personally but in this case my experience of building many different sizes and styles of machines often for aluminum cutting means I am very qualified to critic this machine or any machine of the same design and build quality, even if it is only 2.5K.!

    Again please don't take what I'm about to say personally because it's more a statement of fact about what I often come across and given the fact you have bought this machine it may apply.!!
    Often I deal with people who have either bought or built machines and they think they work great and cut great or are built strong.!! . . When in fact they are actually performing low to medium and quite weakly built. They think this based on there experience which is formed just on that one machine or an even lesser quality machine and only when they see properly designed and built machine do they appreciate the difference.!
    So Experience is relative which is why I know anyone who as experience wouldn't buy this machine for cutting aluminum other than thin sheet.!! . . I wouldn't even buy it for cutting MDF if I'm honest but that's just me with my experience.!. . . . Would make a nice plasma machine thou.!
    There is no point to your comment, other than conceited arrogance, in which your 'opinion' is irrelevant and if I hadn't already been convinced to ignore all your opinions!

    Clearly over some time, presumably in here with an echo chamber fan base, you've convinced yourself your some kind of demigod in the CNC arena rather than just another trivial keyboard forum snob.

    The ebay machine referred is a perfectly good, budget small shop production or even hobby, flatbed router - get over it!

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Owner View Post
    There is no point to your comment, other than conceited arrogance, in which your 'opinion' is irrelevant and if I hadn't already been convinced to ignore all your opinions!

    Clearly over some time, presumably in here with an echo chamber fan base, you've convinced yourself your some kind of demigod in the CNC arena rather than just another trivial keyboard forum snob.

    The ebay machine referred is a perfectly good, budget small shop production or even hobby, flatbed router - get over it!
    If my comments stop just one person buying this machine without knowing exactly what they are buying then I've succeeded.!! . . . . . Now I did say DON'T take my comments personally because they were never aimed at you or to offend you but yet you seem to think it's ok to attack me personally.!! . . . Maybe it's you who needs to get over it.!. .
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

    Email: dean@jazzcnc.co.uk

    Web site: www.jazzcnc.co.uk

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