eBay router

[Edendale]

I just seen a company advertisement on eBay for the to build a router for £2000
Just seems a little cheap for the speck, would like your opinion before I

3 AXIS DESKTOP CNC ROUTER 1mx65cm
Working area 85x55cm

Built to order PLEASE ALLOW 4-5 WEEKS
Manufactured IN UK
Cnc Router will be supplied with the below:
An Electrical enclosure housing stepper drivers and power supplies
A Set of 13 ER20 Collets From 1mm to 13mm
1 Usb Pendant for CNC Machine Control.
A Pre-configured refurbished PC inc monitor.
18mm Mdf bed.
Water pump.
Basic free training at our premises when collecting your cnc
Mechanical
3 axis cnc router with a welded 75mm x 75mm x 3mm steel box-frame for high Quality and accurate cut finish.
16mm anti blcklash ball screw with 16mm pitch
20mm fully supported rails
nema34 800oz motors each with indipendant power supply and stepper driver
KKo1 breakout board
2.2kw spindle & Vfd (water cooled)
Gantry & Z Axis all have support plates giving extra strength where needed,
Z axis 170mm travel
Wiring is all shielded CY cable eliminating electrical noise.

If you have any questions regarding our machines please do not hesitate to contact us.
We are able to build any size cnc Router see our other listings

Please be aware that our machines are made to order so there may be up to a 4 week period
Your machine will come fully configured and ready to run.
Tool path program will be needed to create Gcode Vcarve recommended

[JAZZCNC]

Ok well I'm going to answer this but I want to make it clear because as most of you know I build machines for people that in no way what I'm about to say is said to pull this machine down for my own purposes because I really don't need to. Neither is it intended to say anything about the guy or company building them as I don't know him at all.

What you need to do is look carefully at the machine and ask some questions about it.!

#1 The frame is a welded construction which at first might seem good, but as any on here who have welded a frame will tell you they always twist and move. Also, it's critical to accuracy that the surfaces the rails fasten onto are exactly on the same horizontal plane and vertical planes. This is why we go to great lengths machining or using methods like epoxy leveling.
This machine as NONE of this done to it. Add to this that the 75mm with 3mm wall thickness isn't that strong and being thin-walled it resonates quite a lot which again affects quality of the cut.

#2 Gantry is a very weak affair that's better suited to a plasma machine, just.!!... and again no signs of any attempt to make sure it's flat and not twisted. Plates and connections to ballscrews and key areas like Z-axis are flimsy thin things.

#3 The motion control side is done from the PC with a £5 breakout board. From what I can see he's using commonly used refurbished Dell PC's, which are actually the same ones I use with Ethernet controllers.
If so then I can tell for sure that the parallel port on these is very flaky and I use exactly the same setup for testing and setting up machines with the same KKo1 board and they crash and lockup for fun. So bad that they won't even pass the Linux CNC latency test for using with a parallel port.

#4 Nema 34 motors are just wrong choice for a machine this size and I'd put a wager on it they are run on low voltage to boot. NEMA 34 motors need lots of voltage to get speed. Thou he does use 16mm pitch screws which will offset this to some degree, but still not a good choice for several reasons.

#5 The rails are the round type and the cheap variety, in fact looking closely at the components like ballscrews and BK/BF bearings I believe they are the lower quality units that come out of China, Not all ballscrews and bearings coming out of China are the same quality. Again many on here who have built and bought from China will confirm this.
I've spent a lot of years using various suppliers in China and I'm pretty sure these are the lowest spec available and is how they can sell these machines at this price. Which is ok but they wear out quickly and get sloppy fast and when fitted to a machine that isn't built very accurate to start with these all compounds to give a not so accurate machine.!

#6 The Z-axis is a weak affair fastened to flimsy plates that extend too far at 170mm with a heavy spindle on the end. The end result will be vibrations at the tool which is exactly where you don't want it.!

Other than these things then it's fine for light hobby use provided you are aware of its shortcoming and low-quality components. Oh and the shitty parallel port which I wouldn't trust to run my kettle.!

[Edendale]

Thankyou Dean, I thought there was a reason for the cheap price, think I’ll give it a miss ��

[cncmystic]

Hi JAZZCNC
I have been lookig at the same CNC router on Ebay and wondering about the quality of it, so your response to this question was very useful for me
I note you say that you build machines for people..
I am interested to get an idea from you as to what you would charge for a similar sized machine, (say 1000 x 1000 or 1220 x 1220 ie half sheet) that would be sturdy enough and suitable for milling aluminium.
Many thanks

Ok well I'm going to answer this but I want to make it clear because as most of you know I build machines for people that in no way what I'm about to say is said to pull this machine down for my own purposes because I really don't need to. Neither is it intended to say anything about the guy or company building them as I don't know him at all.

What you need to do is look carefully at the machine and ask some questions about it.!

#1 The frame is a welded construction which at first might seem good, but as any on here who have welded a frame will tell you they always twist and move. Also, it's critical to accuracy that the surfaces the rails fasten onto are exactly on the same horizontal plane and vertical planes. This is why we go to great lengths machining or using methods like epoxy leveling.
This machine as NONE of this done to it. Add to this that the 75mm with 3mm wall thickness isn't that strong and being thin-walled it resonates quite a lot which again affects quality of the cut.

#2 Gantry is a very weak affair that's better suited to a plasma machine, just.!!... and again no signs of any attempt to make sure it's flat and not twisted. Plates and connections to ballscrews and key areas like Z-axis are flimsy thin things.

#3 The motion control side is done from the PC with a £5 breakout board. From what I can see he's using commonly used refurbished Dell PC's, which are actually the same ones I use with Ethernet controllers.
If so then I can tell for sure that the parallel port on these is very flaky and I use exactly the same setup for testing and setting up machines with the same KKo1 board and they crash and lockup for fun. So bad that they won't even pass the Linux CNC latency test for using with a parallel port.

#4 Nema 34 motors are just wrong choice for a machine this size and I'd put a wager on it they are run on low voltage to boot. NEMA 34 motors need lots of voltage to get speed. Thou he does use 16mm pitch screws which will offset this to some degree, but still not a good choice for several reasons.

#5 The rails are the round type and the cheap variety, in fact looking closely at the components like ballscrews and BK/BF bearings I believe they are the lower quality units that come out of China, Not all ballscrews and bearings coming out of China are the same quality. Again many on here who have built and bought from China will confirm this.
I've spent a lot of years using various suppliers in China and I'm pretty sure these are the lowest spec available and is how they can sell these machines at this price. Which is ok but they wear out quickly and get sloppy fast and when fitted to a machine that isn't built very accurate to start with these all compounds to give a not so accurate machine.!

#6 The Z-axis is a weak affair fastened to flimsy plates that extend too far at 170mm with a heavy spindle on the end. The end result will be vibrations at the tool which is exactly where you don't want it.!

Other than these things then it's fine for light hobby use provided you are aware of its shortcoming and low-quality components. Oh and the shitty parallel port which I wouldn't trust to run my kettle.!

[Chip Owner]

Hi JAZZCNC
I have been lookig at the same CNC router on Ebay and wondering about the quality of it, so your response to this question was very useful for me
I note you say that you build machines for people..
I am interested to get an idea from you as to what you would charge for a similar sized machine, (say 1000 x 1000 or 1220 x 1220 ie half sheet) that would be sturdy enough and suitable for milling aluminium.
Many thanks

The machine on ebay cuts aluminium fine, all day long, despite being designed for cutting MDF. Nice clean cuts even in thin 1050 sheet.

In comparison to others in similar price bracket, i.e. 60/90 chinese routers, Xcarve and so on, it's far better.

Could the machines be better, yes, could the finish be better, yes but for around £2500k after some basic mods they work well.

[cncmystic]

Hi Chip Owner
Thanks for the feedback
What are the basic mods you are referring to ?
Is that the machine you are using ?
You are referring to thin 1050 sheet. Would it be OK to mill say 25mm aluminium parts ? (understandly with the appropriate depth of cut, plunge depth per pass and feed speeds)?
When you say ... the machine could be better, what parts are you referring to.
Many thanks
_________________________________________

The machine on ebay cuts aluminium fine, all day long, despite being designed for cutting MDF. Nice clean cuts even in thin 1050 sheet.

In comparison to others in similar price bracket, i.e. 60/90 chinese routers, Xcarve and so on, it's far better.

Could the machines be better, yes, could the finish be better, yes but for around £2500k after some basic mods they work well.

[Chip Owner]

Hi Chip Owner
Thanks for the feedback
What are the basic mods you are referring to ?
Is that the machine you are using ?
You are referring to thin 1050 sheet. Would it be OK to mill say 25mm aluminium parts ? (understandly with the appropriate depth of cut, plunge depth per pass and feed speeds)?
When you say ... the machine could be better, what parts are you referring to.
Many thanks
_________________________________________

Yes I have one of those machines, ordered just before lock down, I would have liked to visit during the build process but this wasn't an option. Things like all the screw in the rails as mentioned elsewhere, I had to finish drill & tap some of these. Also the cables weren't through the frame tube.

Position of VFD is personal choice.

I've added a galvanized plate across both sides of the bed side to reduce side spill of chips, I've added a similar plate to the rear of the gantry, I'll be adding a 4th to the very rear soon too. I've also added some triangle braces on the Z axis top plate, long term I'll do these properly.

Part way through a vac bed installation as I cut thin sheet and will eventually replace the supplied MDF wasteboard/baseboard with steel.

25mm aluminium parts would be fine, it's all down to bit you use and hold down method.

It doesn't do slow at speeds 300-1100mm per minute it's very noisy. Over 1150mm per minute it's fine. Our current bits allow cutting of 1050 sheet at 1150mm-1300mm - with a nice clean cut requiring minimal cleanup. We're changing to a slightly higher grade on next tool order to increase cutting speeds further.

[JAZZCNC]

The machine on ebay cuts aluminium fine, all day long, despite being designed for cutting MDF. Nice clean cuts even in thin 1050 sheet.

In comparison to others in similar price bracket, i.e. 60/90 chinese routers, Xcarve and so on, it's far better.

Could the machines be better, yes, could the finish be better, yes but for around £2500k after some basic mods they work well.

Hi Chip,

Sorry but while it may cut aluminum there's a huge difference between scratching and cutting and I now just from looking at the design and build quality that the finish quality and cutting depths etc must be compromised when cutting aluminum.
The gantry is so flimsy that finish quality cannot be great and if any decent DOC was taken it would vibrate like holy hell. Even if using trochoidal (adaptive, i-Machining, etc.) tool paths with constant engagement which take a lower chip load I'd be surprised if the finish wasn't poor because of the high feed rates causing vibrations in the frame and gantry which transfer to the tool.

I know it's not what you want to hear me saying, esp as I suspect with you being located in Cumbria that you might have something to do with this company. But I've built enough machines to know what it takes to cut aluminum properly with a good finish and this machine isn't strong enough IMO. . . . And I'm not even bring rail parallelism and accuracy, etc into the argument which again has a huge impact on finished work.!!

[cncmystic]

Hi Chip,

Sorry but while it may cut aluminum there's a huge difference between scratching and cutting and I now just from looking at the design and build quality that the finish quality and cutting depths etc must be compromised when cutting aluminum.
The gantry is so flimsy that finish quality cannot be great and if any decent DOC was taken it would vibrate like holy hell. Even if using trochoidal (adaptive, i-Machining, etc.) tool paths with constant engagement which take a lower chip load I'd be surprised if the finish wasn't poor because of the high feed rates causing vibrations in the frame and gantry which transfer to the tool.

I know it's not what you want to hear me saying, esp as I suspect with you being located in Cumbria that you might have something to do with this company. But I've built enough machines to know what it takes to cut aluminum properly with a good finish and this machine isn't strong enough IMO. . . . And I'm not even bring rail parallelism and accuracy, etc into the argument which again has a huge impact on finished work.!!

Hi Dean
I put a post up in reply to one of your posts regarding this a few days ago, but I don't know if you have seen it.
I want a CNC router, say 1000 x1000 or preferably half 4x8 ft sheet so that in two steps, I could route/mill a 4x8 foot sheet when needed
If I did want to build one myself with the main purpose of routing aluminium sheets and milling alumium parts, what would your suggestions be for me to build one ? Ie are there any plans out there that you would recommend to base my build on ? I do have access to a manual mill and lathe (Warco ones)
Alternatively, I noted in one of your posts that you also build machines. Would would it cost for you to build me such a fit for purpose machine ?
Many thanks

[Chip Owner]

Hi Chip,

Sorry but while it may cut aluminum there's a huge difference between scratching and cutting and I now just from looking at the design and build quality that the finish quality and cutting depths etc must be compromised when cutting aluminum.
The gantry is so flimsy that finish quality cannot be great and if any decent DOC was taken it would vibrate like holy hell. Even if using trochoidal (adaptive, i-Machining, etc.) tool paths with constant engagement which take a lower chip load I'd be surprised if the finish wasn't poor because of the high feed rates causing vibrations in the frame and gantry which transfer to the tool.

I know it's not what you want to hear me saying, esp as I suspect with you being located in Cumbria that you might have something to do with this company. But I've built enough machines to know what it takes to cut aluminum properly with a good finish and this machine isn't strong enough IMO. . . . And I'm not even bring rail parallelism and accuracy, etc into the argument which again has a huge impact on finished work.!!

Wow how insulting!

Read my reply, this machine cuts and cuts beautifully and at speed, I missed off these are dry cuts, hence already planning bits that can cut up to 2000mm/minute feed rate, dry cut, single pass into aluminium.

I also made it clear on the comparison positioning in the market for this product, it's not AXYZ but then not all of us have budgets or room for them!

It's a router not a milling machine, it's designed for sheet stock.

And no I have no association with this company, the difference is, I do own one and can speak from experience and not supposition.