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  1. #1
    Hi all, this will be my first conversion of anything to cnc, my only cnc experience is using a 3d printer and a Eleksmaker A3 PRO laser engraver, both had to be built from the parts.


    This is the machine I have and will be converting to cnc
    http://https://tecnomaquinas.es/fres...vario-dro.html

    There are many versions of this machine on the market depending on the company that imports it and adds their modifications, PM 25mv, WM16B and many more
    For english spec this link to the WM16B is almost identical other than the colour
    https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-mach...-16b-mill.html

    The machine once finished will be used for hobby work milling mostly aluminium and steel components/parts for old tractors and car restoration for parts that are no longer available and anything else that I may need.

    The main drawback I have found so far limited travel on the Z axis, it has a quill movement of 50mm on the fine adjustment but an overall Z travel of 330mm so once converted i will be able to have continued travel rather than cut a bit then lower the head cut a bit more lower it, etc.

    At the moment I'm still at the research stage, checking out what I need and why, looking for suppliers of the different items, different qualities of similar components to try to fit everything into my budget which is about €1800-2000 but less if I can as I'm on a pension. The cost of the mill is not included in my budget as I already have it, I also have a couple of older pc's lying round and a Raspberry Pi3 if i go that route, so the budget is for mecanical items, balscrews, motors etc. and the electronics from pc downover to the motors.

    As to the control system I have been looking at the acorn system as it can be used to also control a lathe that i intend to cnc once the milling machine is done. My idea was to use 1 system for both, swapping over as needed so saving costs but how viable this idea is remains to be seen.

    I would like to keep the mill in a usable condition as much as posible as i only have 1 and outseeking jobs here is expensive, plus we are still under lockdown due to this covid-19 buisness.
    My thoughts are to make basic mounts for the motors manually, square plates and round posts for standoffs to get the motors mounted and working then once done the first job make better permanent parts. There is a local guy making an arduino based axis controler for just over €100 that i can use for straight line work till the electronics are completed. Some material will be wasted and I might spend a bit more for the axis controler but it keeps mill downtime to a minimum. Opinions?

    Motors
    X axis nema 23 4nm minimum
    Y axis nema 23 4nm minimum
    Z axis nema 34 12nm

    Ballscrews
    X axis 1605 doublenut
    Y axis 1605 doublenut
    Z axis 2005 doublenut

    The above components are just basic orientation, specifics will be decided after more research and hopefully recomendations from the forum.
    As i said earlier I have not decided on the control system yet hence no mention of BoB etc. as it will depend on what i go with.

    Any comments, opinions would be gratefully recieved as I'm getting in over my head on some things, hopefully JAZZCNC will read and give his 10 cents worth as I have noticed Dean is well informed and respected on the subject and I have enjoyed reading his comments in many threads on this and other forums.

    As a sidenote, I have been looking at bought kits for SIMILAR machines but nobody has said they are 100% compatible to my machine, also most come from outside of europe that adds a big lump of abusive costs by customs and would bring a basic kit over 1000€ without motors or any electronics, I would not mind paying a hobbyist to do it at a reasonable price, I'm not looking for perfect shiny non scratched parts as long as the fixing holes are correct as by the time mounted they will probably be scratched anyway.

    Thats all for now and thanks in advance for any help

  2. #2
    Any thoughts on these kits
    https://www.ebay.es/itm/253849345539...&ul_noapp=true

    He also has kits for the warco wm18

    Derek

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kered View Post
    Any thoughts on these kits
    https://www.ebay.es/itm/253849345539...&ul_noapp=true

    He also has kits for the warco wm18

    Derek
    I have converted two WM18 Warco the above is hardly a kit with just the ball screws you have to be very careful re the X as some of the castings the ball nut struggles to fit under the table.

    The second one I did the castings were made considerably lighter.

    I would measure it up and see what the screw length is then you could buy the screws fro Fred at BST machined to the correct length.

    You won't need end machining on Y and Z Just X. I think you will find that is how the screws are fitted now.
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

  4. Do not use a 12nm stepper if it's one of those 'kits' with the 60v psu. They are total crap.
    Get yourself a 1080oz/in (7nm ish) with max 3.5mh inductance or less.
    My 1080 actually runs freezing cold at full amps on 60v, It could do with 80v tbf.
    Nema23 4nm is what I have on x&y now and they come alive on 60v.

    As for ballscrews I found ones from here were good. Many places don't space them properly (if at all!)
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/cyber-ebu...p2047675.l2563

    I also put a bit of thin aluminium foil between my slave nut and spacers which bought nut backlash right down to 0.015mm.
    They didn't have the perfect size for Y but you can put extra custom made parts on the non motor side to get a bearing unit to fit.

    This is mine when it had nema34 all round. I've since swapped to nema 23 and it's faster!
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
    Hi Clive, i should have wrote ballscrew only kit, getting them all together was what i meant by kit.

    Hi Dazp, I've been watching your build, your machine looks very similar to mine, as i mentioned in my new user thread I'm out of my depth on cnc(Strange for me to admit being out of my depth after over 40 years at sea, 17 as captain) but I'm learning faster by the day even at 62 it takes a bit longer to sink in.
    Is your table the 700mm or the 500mm, if its the 700 what is the overall length of the ballscrew you got for your X axis? I'll send you a pm to get a bit more info if you would be so kind.

    Derek

  6. #6
    My machine from the factory has one end of the X axis and the iner end of the Y axis floating or semi floating.
    The X axis has the non bearing end of the leadscrew through a hole in the end plate, the hole is about 1mm bigger than the shaft so is sort of semi floating or limited floating.
    The inner end of the Y axis is not held in any way.

    To calculate the overall ballscrew length do I just add the BK12 length(54mm) to BF12(11mm)to the table length(700mm) Hence 765mm?
    To calculate the Y length do i just the BK12 to the available space to the rear or is it better to have a bf12 end for support?
    To calculate the Z length BK15(60mm)end plus overall inside hight and leave it floating or put a BF15 end on just in case.
    I'd like to start ordering as delivery will take a while.
    How many people put a handwheel on the non driven end for quick jobs like drilling a hole? is it viable? I have seen some use double shaft motors, is it worth considering? especially for Y as you cannot use the other end
    I added a motor to my x axis for smoother milling but find i disconect it often for quick small jobs so was sort of thinking out of the box as its quicker for me that way.

    Derek

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kered View Post
    My machine from the factory has one end of the X axis and the iner end of the Y axis floating or semi floating.
    The X axis has the non bearing end of the leadscrew through a hole in the end plate, the hole is about 1mm bigger than the shaft so is sort of semi floating or limited floating.
    The inner end of the Y axis is not held in any way.

    To calculate the overall ballscrew length do I just add the BK12 length(54mm) to BF12(11mm)to the table length(700mm) Hence 765mm?
    To calculate the Y length do i just the BK12 to the available space to the rear or is it better to have a bf12 end for support?
    To calculate the Z length BK15(60mm)end plus overall inside hight and leave it floating or put a BF15 end on just in case.
    I'd like to start ordering as delivery will take a while.
    How many people put a handwheel on the non driven end for quick jobs like drilling a hole? is it viable? I have seen some use double shaft motors, is it worth considering? especially for Y as you cannot use the other end
    I added a motor to my x axis for smoother milling but find i disconect it often for quick small jobs so was sort of thinking out of the box as its quicker for me that way.

    Derek
    If you are buying the screws from Fred at BST then I would give him a cad drawing of the screw for the X.

    The F length on the screw is the bit that the pulley fits on I usually make the F length 30mm (you can always cut it off shorter)

    You could use the BF range of AC mounts.

    For quick jobs I have mpg's on all axis.
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Kered View Post
    Hi Clive, i should have wrote ballscrew only kit, getting them all together was what i meant by kit.

    Hi Dazp, I've been watching your build, your machine looks very similar to mine, as i mentioned in my new user thread I'm out of my depth on cnc(Strange for me to admit being out of my depth after over 40 years at sea, 17 as captain) but I'm learning faster by the day even at 62 it takes a bit longer to sink in.
    Is your table the 700mm or the 500mm, if its the 700 what is the overall length of the ballscrew you got for your X axis? I'll send you a pm to get a bit more info if you would be so kind.

    Derek
    My X axis (700mm table) has a 800mm long 1605DFU ballscrew. I bought a pack of 2 and cut the other down to fit the Y axis.
    X axis bearing carrier is 24mm thick with 2* 7201-2rs bearings fitted back to back. (32*12*10mm)
    Standoff parts come out 48mm and motor plate is 12mm thick. I also added extra mounting points in the table so I have 5 instead of the standard 2.

    Screw stuck out a little on the floating side so I have 3 parts on there. 1 is 24mm thickness similar to the bearing mount except for only having a 20mm hole straight through it instead of bearing sizes. This then has anther 12mm thickness part the same dimensions attached to it. This then bought it out enough to fit a standard BK12 floating block on the end.

    Getting the right length screw made up can cost a bit. Plus the extra parts on the floating end can help with table weight balance (ish).

    Y is similar. Can't remember what I cut screw down to but I modified anyway to get the table to go further back to lessen the ridiculous front overhang these machines have. Screw end runs free. Same bearings in a 24mm thick bearing carrier. 48mm standoffs & 12mm thick motor plate. Also added extra fixing points in the base casting.

    Ballnut spacers are packed with thin alu foil bringing screw backlash down to 0.015mm.
    Z axis uses DFU1605 too. Seems to work fine. Can whip a tiny bit if set too fast. Same design, 7201-2rs bearings, 24mm - 48mm - 12mm. Can't remember length but it's longer than the column front slot. Screw end runs free.
    I beefed up the nut mounts on all axis by bolting 24mm thick parts together and making them a snug fit on the nuts.. This aids a lot in preventing any wobble at all in ballnuts. The ones I did buy are pretty solid anyway though.


    I made all my parts on my old Sieg X2 which isn't very level so I may re-do some parts.
    If you haven't got a spare machine for this it's useful to have endmills of 28mm and wharever external diameter the bearings are you will use. Or boring tools.
    Use the 28mm for boring out the nut mount holes and for instance a 32mm for the bearings (my sizes). After pre-drilling them of course. Can be thrown together as mostly squre blocks then and refine it later on when X&Y are running.
    Last edited by dazp1976; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:32 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Clive S View Post
    If you are buying the screws from Fred at BST then I would give him a cad drawing of the screw for the X.

    The F length on the screw is the bit that the pulley fits on I usually make the F length 30mm (you can always cut it off shorter)

    You could use the BF range of AC mounts.

    For quick jobs I have mpg's on all axis.
    No idea what mpg's are and I am intending to direct drive rather than use pulleys, i could put a handle on the floating X end if like you say get 30mm instead of 11mm

    Dazp, thanks for that information on the mounting plates, the place where i get my aluminium plates sells all kinds of offcuts cheap up to 60mm thick, you have to check daily as they soon disappear.

    Almost al the ballscrews i have seen advertised have the standard BK/BF ends on them included the price, maybe they charge a bit extra for non conventional ends but i don't think it would be much like say 20mm extra on one end machined down.

    I looked for freds store on aliexpress and think ive found it but it has BSTMotion BST Automation store on the header, is that the one? Do i just send a message to the contact seller or does Fred have a particular contact addy
    How do their motor/drivers compare in general on price?
    I sent a message to one store and they answered quickly but when i looked again at the article it had gone up 25$, sod that.

    Derek

  10. #10
    No idea what mpg's are and I am intending to direct drive rather than use pulleys, i could put a handle on the floating X end if like you say get 30mm instead of 11mm
    This sort of thing https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/16407915329...oaAkzbEALw_wcB

    One of the good point about using belts is that you can change the ratio to get more toque and to reduce resonance using a smaller stepper on the two mills that I converted WM18 I fitted nema 23 3.1Nm

    Fred bstlinear at gmail.com Is highly trusted by many on the forum
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

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